Quantcast
Sterling masters go to 0dBFS?! - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Sterling masters go to 0dBFS?!
Old 27th January 2013
  #1
Lives for gear
 
I.R.Baboon's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Sterling masters go to 0dBFS?!

I've received a few masters from Sterling recently and they all went up to 0dBFS. not -0.1 or whatever, right to the top.

Is this intentional?........or are they getting sloppy?..........any ideas?

I always try to avoid this as i've noticed that clients are liable to complain that "it's clipped" if you hit full scale, because they see the red lights go on in Logic or PT or whatever.

???
Old 27th January 2013
  #2
Lives for gear
 
dualflip's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Nothing wrong with 0dB, the main reason most people limit to -0.1dB is as a precaution not to clip, but 0dB is still not clipping, most records ive analyzed actually hit 0dB.
1
Share
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #3
Lives for gear
 
I.R.Baboon's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dualflip ➑️
Nothing wrong with 0dB, the main reason most people limit to -0.1dB is as a precaution not to clip, but 0dB is still not clipping, most records ive analyzed actually hit 0dB.
What's wrong with, aside from any technical matters which i'm not really concerned about, is that clients are liable to complain that "it's clipped" if you hit full scale, because they see the red lights go on in Logic or PT or whatever.
1
Share
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
dualflip's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by I.R.Baboon ➑️
What's wrong with, aside from any technical matters which i'm not really concerned about, is that clients are liable to complain that "it's clipped" if you hit full scale, because they see the red lights go on in Logic or PT or whatever.
Sterling shouldnt be blamed for the ignorance of your clients, or your lack of concern in technical matters.
1
Share
Old 27th January 2013
  #5
Lives for gear
 
I.R.Baboon's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
LOL, nice one, comedy is king!

There's no sane reason to let your master max out at 0dBFS, when you can drop it 0.1dB and avoid red-lights going on. Basic stuff really.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
dualflip's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by I.R.Baboon ➑️
LOL, nice one!

There's no sane reason to let you master max out at 0dBFS, when you can drop it 0.1dB and avoid red-lights going on. Basic stuff really.
At truly 0dB no red light should turn on, some programs light up early to prevent the user from reaching "dangerous areas", but technically theres nothing wrong if you dont go over 0dB, records have been mastered at 0dB long before users could import it to a logic audio track. A typical DAW meter shouldnt be trusted, a true bit meter should be used to determine if there are clips or not, in fact some DAWs do the oposite, they dont show when a clip occured, a bit meter will usually do...
Old 27th January 2013
  #7
Lives for gear
 
I.R.Baboon's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Ah yes, but my clients are too ignorant to use true bit meters, right?! Of course they just use the meter in Cubase, Ableton or whatever.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #8
Lives for gear
 
dualflip's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by I.R.Baboon ➑️
Ah yes, but my clients are too ignorant to use true bit meters, right?! Of course they just use the meter in Cubase, Ableton or whatever.
Your point being?

I think you asked a question, and I think I've answered it, again Sterling is not the one to blame for the lack of knowledge of your clients, they did nothing wrong.

Either way you should tell your clients that A LOT of clipping probably occured in order to get their master very loud and no red lights turned on....

If you are still uncomfortable with this, call Sterling and tell them to lower it 0.1dB because you have cluless clients
1
Share
Old 27th January 2013
  #9
Lives for gear
 
hmiller's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
It's fine. I'll occasionally have something go out at 0. It's probably from a small change in the peak from doing SRC after limiting.
2
Share
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
I.R.Baboon's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dualflip ➑️
Your point being?

I think you asked a question, and I think I've answered it, again Sterling is not the one to blame for the lack of knowledge of your clients, they did nothing wrong.

Either way you should tell your clients that A LOT of clipping probably occured in order to get their master very loud and no red lights turned on....

If you are still uncomfortable with this, call Sterling and tell them to lower it 0.1dB because you have cluless clients
I'm happy you feel like you helped, although i found your answers a bit amateur and will ignore them, hope you don't take it personally.
2
Share
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
I.R.Baboon's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntley Miller ➑️
It's fine. I'll occasionally have something go out at 0. It's probably from a small change in the peak from doing SRC after limiting.
I agree with this, sometimes one or two sneak through for some reason, i don't worry about those.
1
Share
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
dualflip's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by I.R.Baboon ➑️
I'm happy you feel like you helped, although i found your answers a bit amateur and will ignore them, hope you don't take it personally.
Sure thing, well i find a bit more amateur the fact that you just realized this and think theres something definitely wrong with it, even more if you dont know the technical reasons and not interested on knowing them so I dont know how can anyone help you with that.

Again, call Sterling and tell them they are wrong and that you want the master 0.1dB lower.
2
Share
Old 27th January 2013
  #13
Gear Addict
 
NotchontheRocks's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Did you try telling your clients that just because their DAW is in the red, it doesn't mean it is clipping? Not being sarcastic; it's a serious question. If they still don't understand (or don't want to understand, in some cases), you could always drop it to -0.1 yourself and they'd never know the difference.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotchontheRocks ➑️
Did you try telling your clients that just because their DAW is in the red, it doesn't mean it is clipping? Not being sarcastic; it's a serious question. If they still don't understand (or don't want to understand, in some cases), you could always drop it to -0.1 yourself and they'd never know the difference.
Except then you would need to re-dither it, which would defeat the whole point of having it done by pros.
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Addict
 
NotchontheRocks's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRJanuary ➑️
Except then you would need to re-dither it, which would defeat the whole point of having it done by pros.
If the client doesn't realize/understand that just because it is in the red on the DAW doesn't mean it is clipping, I doubt they will notice dither.
Old 28th January 2013
  #16
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
See folks? It's situations exactly like this one why I never peak norm so close to 0dBfs.
1
Share
Old 28th January 2013
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
Owen Gillett's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
The last Alice In Chains album peaks at -0.2 dBfs

Mastered by Ted at Sterling.

Best,

Owen Gillett
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen Gillett ➑️
The last Alice In Chains album peaks at -0.2 dBfs

Mastered by Ted at Sterling.

Best,

Owen Gillett
Does that make it right?

(Now I finally know what my Dad meant all those years by "Gonna jump off a bridge because 'they said to?' - THINK FOR YOURSELF!" Wish I listened while he was alive....
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #19
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by I.R.Baboon ➑️
Ah yes, but my clients are too ignorant to use true bit meters, right?! Of course they just use the meter in Cubase, Ableton or whatever.
A bit meter would just tell you how many bits are being used. I assume you're talking about the 16bit or 24bit master provided by Sterling Sound or are you talking about a commercial CD.

I'm not 100% sure about Sterling but we often make different masters for different purposes. For Mastered for iTunes we would usually peak at -.03 for Vinyl masters we would provide a non-limited version so peaks may go to 0.0. For CD it is not uncommon for us to peak at 0.0 if it sounds right. (though I don't usually do that)

Red lights be damned. They don't really tell you anything. It's just a programmers interpretation of 'over'. In the Weiss units you can set the 'consecutive samples over' before the red light goes on. I have mine set to the highest so they never go on. If I set it to 1 then would go on all the time.

Don't rely on your eyes to tell you what you're hearing.
2
Share
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by I.R.Baboon ➑️
I'm happy you feel like you helped, although i found your answers a bit amateur and will ignore them, hope you don't take it personally.


There's an old adage about a person so ignorant of a particular craft -- so unaware of the nuance and even the most basic skills it requires -- that he is unable to recognize the abilities of a master of that craft, and thus he aggressively assumes he is as good or better. In this case, we have Mr Baboon, completely ignorant to the reality (yes, reality) that dualflip has shared, and he goes so far as to call dualflip "a bit amateur". Now, I don't personally know Mr Flip, and I am not familiar with his work, but I do understand digital audio in some degree of detail, and Mr Baboon's assessment is both laughable and completely false.

If you clients are for some reason listening to their record via a DAW, and the red lights are causing them fright, kindly explain to them the fact that 0dBfs is not clipping, and that everything is going to be OK. If they're concerned about intersample peaks, or mp3 conversion distortion, or some other technical gremlin, I'm sure the fine (and very expensive) folks at Sterling would indeed be happy to lower the level of your master by a tenth of a decibel or two. Besides, it never hurts to ask.
1
Share
Old 28th January 2013
  #21
Lives for gear
 
IIIrd's Avatar
 
Verified Member
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by I.R.Baboon ➑️
I've received a few masters from Sterling recently and they all went up to 0dBFS. not -0.1 or whatever, right to the top.

Is this intentional?........or are they getting sloppy?..........any ideas?

I always try to avoid this as i've noticed that clients are liable to complain that "it's clipped" if you hit full scale, because they see the red lights go on in Logic or PT or whatever.

???
'nout wrong with 0dBfs old chap.
Old 29th January 2013
  #22
Lives for gear
 
I.R.Baboon's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
oh never mind.......
Old 30th January 2013
  #23
Gear Nut
 
Sempoo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Question number one - are you listening to music or looking at meters?
1
Share
Old 30th January 2013
  #24
Lives for gear
 
666666's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
But, regardless, why run it right up against 0dBFS when it's simply not necessary? Plus, I thought a good reason to not sit right at 0dBFS was because some consumer media players can tend to not be calibrated so precisely and can get cranky if you're really pushing the upper limits... it surely makes sense to me to indeed leave a little "safety margin".... I mean, why not? Why must everything be so damn hot and so damn loud? I guess its truly a "who's c*ck is bigger" kind of thing. Well, to each his own. While running at 0 might be theoretically ok, I don't see any good reason to do it. If there is a benefit, I'd love to know.
3
Share
Old 30th January 2013
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
"0" is louder than -0.1
Old 30th January 2013 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen Gillett ➑️
The last Alice In Chains album peaks at -0.2 dBfs

Mastered by Ted at Sterling.

Best,

Owen Gillett
Ted who?
1
Share
Old 30th January 2013
  #27
Lives for gear
 
ONDRAY's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
sometimes I wish meters were never invented for the audio world.
Old 30th January 2013
  #28
Gear Nut
 
paintitblack's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Each software may red light at different volumes. Zero or .1 ect just ask the manufactures they will tell you. I use wavelab and it's meters allow you to decide and customize where it red lights. The reason it's good to leave this headroom is to avoid intersample peaks. Some CD players and other devices or playback systems that convert the signal may have a different "0" crossings and will distort a signal. And a DAC maybe round the bit up this clipping it while others may not. My advice is to research inter sample peaks.
Old 30th January 2013
  #29
Gear Nut
 
paintitblack's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I believe pro tools hd actually red lights at -.3 dbfs
If I can recall when doing the classes.
Old 30th January 2013
  #30
Lives for gear
 
IIIrd's Avatar
 
Verified Member
🎧 10 years
Peaking at zero isn't the issue, being at zero or peak coding all the time is. How many consecutive samples at zero constitute an over.
Meters give these red lights depending how they're set. 3 samples is normal, some come set to one sample...
Closed

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 4616 views: 612079
Avatar for smoke
smoke 7th May 2021
replies: 98 views: 37532
Avatar for dfghdhr
dfghdhr 1 week ago
replies: 295 views: 72319
Avatar for anguswoodhead
anguswoodhead 26th March 2013
replies: 1296 views: 178423
Avatar for heraldo_jones
heraldo_jones 1st February 2016
Topic:

Forum Jump
Forum Jump