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What mastering methods do you use?
Old 10th December 2012 | Show parent
  #121
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Hardtoe's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by clo17 ➡️
Why does the madeon one sound louder then? At least I jumped over deadmau5 in my recent mastering... It literally took five TLs Maximizers and a Cubase compressor on the master output at once. Then I took it to Sound Forge. At least that did make a difference in terms of loudness.
This is not mastering - it's massacring.

Did it sound good?

Old 10th December 2012 | Show parent
  #122
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47radAR's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by clo17 ➡️
Why does the madeon one sound louder then?
Because of the mix. You keep saying "don't talk about the mix" but until you accept the fact that the PERCEPTION of loudness comes mostly from the mix you will never get the sound you want. That's just it.

If every mastering engineer on the forum keeps telling you the same thing over and over again there's PROBABLY some truth in it.

The thing is, people don't want to accept the fact that you SIMPLY CANNOT READ A FEW FORUMS OR WATCH A FEW VIDEOS AND BECOME A "PRO".

Think about it like this. Do you think you could go to a basketball forum and ask "How was Michael Jordan so great? I practice my jump shot all the time but I'm not near as good as him. Tell me what the secret is so I can be the all time greatest player like Michael Jordan!!"

Now doesn't that sound completely ridiculous? You would never do that, right? So why do people feel like they can waltz into a recording forum and have someone tell them how to mix like Chris Lord Alge and THEN master their own track just like Chris Athens would? That is EQUALLY ridiculous.

Now I don't know the extent of your potential (nobody does...not even you) but when it comes to doing ANYTHING on a "professional level", there comes a point where you either have it or you don't. You can learn techniques and greatly improve what you already have. You can ehance and sharpen skills that are already buried inside you but you cannot CREATE a talent you simply don't have.

I don't know that you do or that you don't but you need to change your mentality before you can even find out. Stop looking for shortcuts and learn your craft. If you haven't become a "pro" at mixing then you shouldn't even be THINKING about mastering. Can't skip steps, Bro...and that's just all there is to it.

Listen to the advise you've already been given. Study. Practice. Learn. You are NOT gonna become get to Deadmau5 level just by reading a few tips on a forum and watching a few videos. Period...
Old 10th December 2012 | Show parent
  #123
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jinksdingo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
The reason its sound louder is in the production of it no doubt.
You could upload your track to youtube as there could very well be a difference in the conversion process. eg You tube is mono or it was and I think that is still the case. Might be worth a relisten this way to really get a handle on what you wish to achieve.
Old 10th December 2012
  #124
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twentyhertz's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
This thread is like watching a car crash. Over and over.
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Old 10th December 2012 | Show parent
  #125
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Verified Member
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by twentyhertz ➡️
This thread is like watching a car crash. Over and over.
A car crash filmed on a Phantom Flex!
Old 10th December 2012
  #126
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
If that's not a troll, it's a very stubborn person whom I'll be ignoring anyways.
Old 11th December 2012 | Show parent
  #127
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MikeInOttawa's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by twentyhertz ➡️
This thread is like watching a car crash. Over and over.
Yes- you don't want to look but you can't stop yourself.

I keep coming back to see if the OP has bought an API 2500 or some other panacea.
Old 14th December 2012 | Show parent
  #128
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeInOttawa ➡️
Yes- you don't want to look but you can't stop yourself.

I keep coming back to see if the OP has bought an API 2500 or some other panacea.
Speaking of, how much is that anyway? Finally we're getting somewhere.

In the meantime I've begun experimenting with TLs Maximizer. I don't think it's doing anything.

Is that a Club Penguin doll?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe ➡️
This is not mastering - it's massacring.

Did it sound good?

Yea I kind of noticed that too, although I did manage to go somewhere with it...
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Old 15th December 2012 | Show parent
  #129
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MikeInOttawa's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by clo17 ➡️
Speaking of, how much is that anyway? Finally we're getting somewhere.
A real API 2500 is about $2,800. Waves sells an emulation. I think it's popular. I'm a UAD guy so I'd use the Neve 33609 or Fairchild.

There's lots of Fairchild VSTs out there but you're looking for hardware I think. Maybe two FMR PBC-6As?
Old 18th December 2012 | Show parent
  #130
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeInOttawa ➡️
A real API 2500 is about $2,800. Waves sells an emulation. I think it's popular. I'm a UAD guy so I'd use the Neve 33609 or Fairchild.

There's lots of Fairchild VSTs out there but you're looking for hardware I think. Maybe two FMR PBC-6As?
The question is, will the hardware limiter actually affect the real audio file itself, bring up its loudness, and help me export the file with... well, the limiting on it?

Then again, I might be better off with a software, because I did find the TLs Maximizer bringing me somewhere.
Old 18th December 2012 | Show parent
  #131
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Hardtoe's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by clo17 ➡️
The question is, will the hardware limiter actually affect the real audio file itself, bring up its loudness, and help me export the file with... well, the limiting on it?

Then again, I might be better off with a software, because I did find the TLs Maximizer bringing me somewhere.


You have to print the song through the hardware limiter and capture the bounce if you wish for the effect to be on your ITB mix - if you were to do this you would go in with plenty of mix headroom and let the limiter bring up the volume.
Old 18th December 2012 | Show parent
  #132
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trell Blaze ➡️
Because of the mix. You keep saying "don't talk about the mix" but until you accept the fact that the PERCEPTION of loudness comes mostly from the mix you will never get the sound you want. That's just it.

If every mastering engineer on the forum keeps telling you the same thing over and over again there's PROBABLY some truth in it.

The thing is, people don't want to accept the fact that you SIMPLY CANNOT READ A FEW FORUMS OR WATCH A FEW VIDEOS AND BECOME A "PRO".

Think about it like this. Do you think you could go to a basketball forum and ask "How was Michael Jordan so great? I practice my jump shot all the time but I'm not near as good as him. Tell me what the secret is so I can be the all time greatest player like Michael Jordan!!"

Now doesn't that sound completely ridiculous? You would never do that, right? So why do people feel like they can waltz into a recording forum and have someone tell them how to mix like Chris Lord Alge and THEN master their own track just like Chris Athens would? That is EQUALLY ridiculous.

Now I don't know the extent of your potential (nobody does...not even you) but when it comes to doing ANYTHING on a "professional level", there comes a point where you either have it or you don't. You can learn techniques and greatly improve what you already have. You can ehance and sharpen skills that are already buried inside you but you cannot CREATE a talent you simply don't have.

I don't know that you do or that you don't but you need to change your mentality before you can even find out. Stop looking for shortcuts and learn your craft. If you haven't become a "pro" at mixing then you shouldn't even be THINKING about mastering. Can't skip steps, Bro...and that's just all there is to it.

Listen to the advise you've already been given. Study. Practice. Learn. You are NOT gonna become get to Deadmau5 level just by reading a few tips on a forum and watching a few videos. Period...
Who gave out the idea that I don't mix anyway (I just don't use the term, but...)? =.=

Does mixing even help get rid of some of the noise most people get when they use the limiter or what?

Still, that's off-topic so I've made another thread. It's not like I'm not having any problems on the mixing phase (again, I normally don't use that term, I say "tweaking" or "adjusting").


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe ➡️
You have to print the song through the hardware limiter and capture the bounce if you wish for the effect to be on your ITB mix - if you were to do this you would go in with plenty of mix headroom and let the limiter bring up the volume.

Finally a response I was looking for... somewhat...

One, does a software limiter do a much better job at this? I found the TLs Maximizer bringing me somewhere. TLs Maximizer is not a good software, is it...?

Two, how do I install and use a software limiter on Sound Forge (if you think a software limiter does a better job)?

Oh wait, I might have said I didn't want that response and that second question seems to ring a bell... remind me with a quote when replying to that?
Old 18th December 2012 | Show parent
  #133
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gruenburger's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by clo17 ➡️
Who gave out the idea that I don't mix anyway (I just don't use the term, but...)? =.=

Does mixing even help get rid of some of the noise most people get when they use the limiter or what?

Still, that's off-topic so I've made another thread. It's not like I'm not having any problems on the mixing phase (again, I normally don't use that term, I say "tweaking" or "adjusting").





Finally a response I was looking for... somewhat...

One, does a software limiter do a much better job at this? I found the TLs Maximizer bringing me somewhere. TLs Maximizer is not a good software, is it...?

Two, how do I install and use a software limiter on Sound Forge (if you think a software limiter does a better job)?

Oh wait, I might have said I didn't want that response and that second question seems to ring a bell... remind me with a quote when replying to that?

Old 18th December 2012
  #134
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Hypnotic's Avatar
Funniest thread that I've read on this site.
Old 18th December 2012 | Show parent
  #135
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gruenburger's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypnotic ➡️
Funniest thread that I've read on this site.
it needs to be archived
Old 18th December 2012 | Show parent
  #136
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Hypnotic's Avatar
Even sidechaining the drums? Sorry if that sounds stupid.

Now I'm contributing to the stupidness of this thread, but I'm genuinely curious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheebs Goat ➡️
Now we're getting to the problem. The kind of instruments you use and the number of them have everything to do with it. Try this:

Make a song of just a buzzy synth bass and lead. Only two tracks. All synth. Mix and master it.

Make a song with a full acoustic drum kit, acoustic guitar, a buzzy synth bass, and lead. Mix and master it.

There is no way on heaven and earth that you will get the second song as loud as the first without ruining it into oblivion, if you can even get it as loud doing that.

Loudness comes from:
The sounds the instruments make
The nature of the instruments (electronic vs acoustic)
The performance of the guy playing the instruments (it is hard to make a loud final product with a bad musician)
Careful deliberate use of when the instruments play vs not play
How the parts interact with each other
Old 18th December 2012 | Show parent
  #137
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Hypnotic's Avatar
You know, it just occurred to me that what might help you is to do some parallel compression. Since you obviously don't know how to use a compressor, just screw it and go completely in that direction and do the following: Compress the **** out of one recording. Just follow your instincts from the gut. Then layer that recording over the original and blend to taste. That is parallel compression, and I think you would be good at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clo17 ➡️
The question is, will the hardware limiter actually affect the real audio file itself, bring up its loudness, and help me export the file with... well, the limiting on it?

Then again, I might be better off with a software, because I did find the TLs Maximizer bringing me somewhere.
Old 18th December 2012 | Show parent
  #138
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Hypnotic's Avatar
Did anyone mention Izotope Ozone to this poor guy? What you need is one of their presets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gruenburger ➡️
Old 18th December 2012
  #139
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GJ999x's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
ha.... ozone, good call. That's probably what OP Is after. iZotope Ozone 5 Complete Mastering System

Check that out OP, good chance it'll work better than 5 TLs maximisers...

What was your question about "can the software actually make a difference to the sound" lol.... Clo, u wouldnt be trolling us would ya?
Old 18th December 2012
  #140
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AudioRadar's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
The reason why the Maedon mix is so loud is not because of the mastering, it's because of the mix and sounddesign. It is actually not as squashed as you think(dynamic range is about 5db...) The soundstage is extremly wide, with lots of sidechaining and very little high frequencies and low frequencies.
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Old 18th December 2012 | Show parent
  #141
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MikeInOttawa's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypnotic ➡️
Funniest thread that I've read on this site.
Glad to have helped.

Then again, maybe not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioRadar ➡️
The reason why the Maedon mix is so loud is not because of the mastering, it's because of the mix and sounddesign.
Quite a few people (including me) have tried to say that mixing, panning, and instrumentation are most important, but to no avail.
Old 18th December 2012 | Show parent
  #142
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypnotic ➡️
You know, it just occurred to me that what might help you is to do some parallel compression. Since you obviously don't know how to use a compressor, just screw it and go completely in that direction and do the following: Compress the **** out of one recording. Just follow your instincts from the gut. Then layer that recording over the original and blend to taste. That is parallel compression, and I think you would be good at it.
Thanks I'll try that later...

...but I just found out last night the drums and the piano were not loud enough (so I went back trying to tweak all over again, which, by the way, what folks call "mixing") but I still need help on adjusting everything to make sure that everything can be heard... and when I do try to bring up the loudness to the targeted amount (by comparing to a madeon mix), the mixdown itself is not even close to the competition and I keep getting unwanted noises (the same sound as if someone was hitting the condenser microphone after removing the pop shields, yes I have doubled up). I've already made another thread for that but no... I don't get any response.

Now what... TT_TT (please respond to the question above in the other thread because I've been discussing a problem back in the "mixing" phase and that's off-topic)

How can mixing help get rid of unwanted noises anyway?
Old 18th December 2012 | Show parent
  #143
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Hardtoe's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by clo17 ➡️

How can mixing help get rid of unwanted noises anyway?
Why you mix them out - hipass filter automated to cut at just the right spot if it's plosives...
Old 18th December 2012 | Show parent
  #144
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GJ999x's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe ➡️
Why you mix them out - hipass filter automated to cut at just the right spot if it's plosives...
He's talking about the noises you get when you rely on the limiter for loudness too much, so hp filter post-limiter is a bit extreme (OP step in here if i'm wrong).

+

Quote:
the piano were not loud enough so I went back trying to tweak all over again, which, by the way, what folks call "mixing"
Yeah.... my money's on troll...
Old 18th December 2012 | Show parent
  #145
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe ➡️
Why you mix them out - hipass filter automated to cut at just the right spot if it's plosives...
Wouldn't that made the audio fade in and out, though?
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