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What mastering methods do you use?
Old 3rd November 2012 | Show parent
  #61
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NotchontheRocks's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by WBM ➑️
The music itself tell you how loud she 'll fit, not everything is commercial level.
Both true and untrue. You won't be able to push a jazz mix to commercial levels without harming the quality of the mix pretty extensively. On the other hand, while a dense rock song is perfect for "loudness," if the mix is unbalanced and contains crazy peaks, good luck making it "loud" without losing quality.
Old 3rd November 2012 | Show parent
  #62
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MikeInOttawa's Avatar
Just listened to the tune. I had to use cans for now. But it seemed to me there wasn't much in the way of panning in the mix- like everything's dead centre. Not sure. That might be something that could help.

I thought it was loud enough too.
Old 3rd November 2012 | Show parent
  #63
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeInOttawa ➑️
Just listened to the tune. I had to use cans for now. But it seemed to me there wasn't much in the way of panning in the mix- like everything's dead centre. Not sure. That might be something that could help.

I thought it was loud enough too.
One, I intentionally made everything dead center. Two, that was only half the volume of Icarus. Please wake up.

Liked that anyway? :3 I couldn't believe I pulled that one off... without a guitar I mean... normally it doesn't sound good without guitar lines.
Old 8th November 2012
  #64
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Anyway, where the beebideebeepbeepbeep was I?

Yes, I really need a mastering tutorial for Sound Forge, my track is not as loud as my rival tracks.

All I could care about is the unwanted buzz and statics. I just need to make sure every single instrument is heard, and the track will be almost entirely flat out loud anyway.
Old 8th November 2012 | Show parent
  #65
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by vstace ➑️
It depends on what tools you use, but there's tons of great info on the net. Now applying it correctly to your own music is a whole other issue. I just found this by doing a quick search, idk, seems pretty informative to me although he does run his mix pretty hot, but it seems to suit the track.

I didn't have the patience to watch all of Robs video.
However, it seems to me he left out the part where one listens to the source track. He just starts piling on the plugs. If the track is so meticulously mixed
it may just need one plug : a limiter.
Old 8th November 2012
  #66
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🎧 10 years
I like Joseph and CLA's opinion of mastering. If the song was mixed correctly it shouldn't "need" mastering.
Old 8th November 2012 | Show parent
  #67
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Verified Member
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by abechap024 ➑️
I like Joseph and CLA's opinion of mastering. If the song was mixed correctly it shouldn't "need" mastering.
I wonder if Chris Lord Alge has passed this opinion on to Ted Jensen.
I saw them walking together at the AES. Maybe Ted should make a statement
like we don't need large format consoles and over-priced mixing engineers
if the tracks go to a pro mastering engineer.
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Old 8th November 2012 | Show parent
  #68
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Jerry Tubb's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeaudio ➑️
I wonder if Chris Lord Alge has passed this opinion on to Ted Jensen.
I saw them walking together at the AES. Maybe Ted should make a statement
like we don't need large format consoles and over-priced mixing engineers
if the tracks go to a pro mastering engineer.
Hahaha! Joe.

Guess it just depends on your viewpoint & perspective.

Best, JT
Old 8th November 2012 | Show parent
  #69
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by clo17 ➑️
What kind of instruments I use and the number of instruments I use have nothing to do with it... right?
Now we're getting to the problem. The kind of instruments you use and the number of them have everything to do with it. Try this:

Make a song of just a buzzy synth bass and lead. Only two tracks. All synth. Mix and master it.

Make a song with a full acoustic drum kit, acoustic guitar, a buzzy synth bass, and lead. Mix and master it.

There is no way on heaven and earth that you will get the second song as loud as the first without ruining it into oblivion, if you can even get it as loud doing that.

Loudness comes from:
The sounds the instruments make
The nature of the instruments (electronic vs acoustic)
The performance of the guy playing the instruments (it is hard to make a loud final product with a bad musician)
Careful deliberate use of when the instruments play vs not play
How the parts interact with each other
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Old 9th November 2012 | Show parent
  #70
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GJ999x's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheebs Goat ➑️
Now we're getting to the problem. The kind of instruments you use and the number of them have everything to do with it. Try this:

Make a song of just a buzzy synth bass and lead. Only two tracks. All synth. Mix and master it.

Make a song with a full acoustic drum kit, acoustic guitar, a buzzy synth bass, and lead. Mix and master it.

There is no way on heaven and earth that you will get the second song as loud as the first without ruining it into oblivion, if you can even get it as loud doing that.

Loudness comes from:
The sounds the instruments make
The nature of the instruments (electronic vs acoustic)
The performance of the guy playing the instruments (it is hard to make a loud final product with a bad musician)
Careful deliberate use of when the instruments play vs not play
How the parts interact with each other
Nice - thanks
Old 11th November 2012
  #71
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Actually I think I got it somewhat.

Using the Wave Hammer and then getting on the EQ to increase the master volume on Sound Forge... but the problem is I begin hearing some noise when the track is as loud as a madeon one.



I may have to consider redoing this...

I am proud to say that I did the guitar in that myself, though.
Old 11th November 2012 | Show parent
  #72
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gruenburger's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by vstace ➑️
It depends on what tools you use, but there's tons of great info on the net. Now applying it correctly to your own music is a whole other issue. I just found this by doing a quick search, idk, seems pretty informative to me although he does run his mix pretty hot, but it seems to suit the track.

I love this. "The tube and tape saturators do something, but i cant really put my finger on it." Too funny.
Old 14th November 2012
  #73
Ged
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Ged's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
mastering methods = EQ > comp(rarely) limiter (1 or 2dB), most important is the EQ!
Old 14th November 2012
  #74
228081
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The sound in question though (Madeon and other references) has jack **** to do with mastering

Johnynotknow
Old 14th November 2012
  #75
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Hardtoe's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I think you need the Sausage Fattener:

Dada Life

really

Old 14th November 2012 | Show parent
  #76
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe ➑️
I think you need the Sausage Fattener:

Dada Life

really

#1. GREATEST OUTBOARD GEAR EVER!

#2. That video makes me want to buy, like, 12 licenses of that plug. :D


Not that this solves the OP's problem on it's own. Loudness is a build-from-the-ground-up kinda' thing. At least at the crazy levels.

But I would use the stuffing outta' that plug on a drum buss when I want distortion.
Old 14th November 2012 | Show parent
  #77
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gruenburger's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by clo17 ➑️
Actually I think I got it somewhat.

Using the Wave Hammer and then getting on the EQ to increase the master volume on Sound Forge... but the problem is I begin hearing some noise when the track is as loud as a madeon one.



I may have to consider redoing this...

I am proud to say that I did the guitar in that myself, though.
Did you record that guitar through a toaster????
Old 15th November 2012
  #78
228081
Guest
"Sausage fattener" is just a really really really really overdone paralell distortion chain through an eq and compression i.e an exciter

Am abit confused as to where it says in the description on the webby "use it at low settings on single tracks and or the mix buss and sausage fattener behaves like a musical compressor" (paraphrased)

Any setting just sounds like toad in the hole (sausages swamped in gravy)

Seems like a bit of a take on image lines "soundgoodizer"

Which am pretty sure madeon uses alot of as the bigger version that soundgoodizers presets are based on maximus allows you to get silly loudness (am not exaggerating when i say silly)

But i have heard somewhere that madeon uses soundgoodizer quite liberally


Johnynotknow
Old 1st December 2012 | Show parent
  #79
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gruenburger ➑️
Did you record that guitar through a toaster????
No, but I used the Telephone preset on my built-in EQ. That allows me to make the guitar literally sound like if it was recorded through a telephone/answering machine. My guitar normally doesn't sound like that. It's just an intentional effect.

Anyway, I found this one somewhat-affordable limiter.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...iter-with-gate

Will this be all I need to match up against deadmau5 and madeon or do I really need more compressors (I doubt it, to be honest, but...)? Also, how do I work that thing to actually louden my songs and then export the loudened full version itself?
Old 1st December 2012 | Show parent
  #80
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by clo17 ➑️
I found this one somewhat-affordable limiter....Will this be all I need to match up against deadmau5 and madeon
No. Even a decent limiter wont be 'all you need'. Some good reading in the posts above. A great limiter will play a v. important role and I'd be tempted to say dont go for cheap hardware (at that price you can have the massey soft limiter, why not go for that?)

That said I've no experience of the alesis limiter. I can still confidently answer "no" to your question, though, and there isnt really a list of equipment that is "all you need" though a few choice processors and great monitoring and room would get you closer...
Old 1st December 2012
  #81
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AudioRadar's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
loudness through mastering is overrated (although a good mastering engineer can probably make it sound much louder without squashing it too much, if that is desired that is). The trick to a loud mix is multiple compressors during the mixing phase, always taking a bit of the dynamics away with relatively low ratios. E.g. Compressor on synth1, compressor on the bus synth1 goes to, compressor on the bus for all instruments, and then a mixcompressor at the end with some tape saturation maybe. This can make the mix quite loud without killing the dynamics too much.
Old 1st December 2012 | Show parent
  #82
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioRadar ➑️
loudness through mastering is overrated (although a good mastering engineer can probably make it sound much louder without squashing it too much, if that is desired that is). The trick to a loud mix is multiple compressors during the mixing phase, always taking a bit of the dynamics away with relatively low ratios. E.g. Compressor on synth1, compressor on the bus synth1 goes to, compressor on the bus for all instruments, and then a mixcompressor at the end with some tape saturation maybe. This can make the mix quite loud without killing the dynamics too much.
Does that mean I have to get four limiters? ._. Can I just get the same ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GJ999x ➑️
No. Even a decent limiter wont be 'all you need'. Some good reading in the posts above. A great limiter will play a v. important role and I'd be tempted to say dont go for cheap hardware (at that price you can have the massey soft limiter, why not go for that?)

That said I've no experience of the alesis limiter. I can still confidently answer "no" to your question, though, and there isnt really a list of equipment that is "all you need" though a few choice processors and great monitoring and room would get you closer...
I asked if that Alesis limiter is the one that can bring the loudness up to the amount I need, not "do I need anything else in general?". My songs are almost good to go, but I need to know if that Alesis limiter is the kind of limiter I need. Will that do or do I need to get a specific peak limiter to get that portion of the job done? Otherwise do I need multiple limiters?

What that means is, I already have everything else. Now I just need to get the right limiter. Is that Alesis one the kind of limiter I could use in order to bring up that loudness (it is considered as one of the most legendary limiters according to a YouTube video, plus it's on sale), do I need to get a specific peak limiter to do that, or do I need more than one limiter to do the job?
Old 1st December 2012
  #83
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AudioRadar's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
hardware? If its electronic music I'd only get 1 hardware bus compressor (I like the API2500, but can't afford the hardware one so i use the software emulation instead)... use software for the rest. Pop/rock music I don't know. And it does not mean you have to, that is just one way to get things loud.

why don't you just save yourself the money for the limiter and get the job done by a dedicated mastering engineer?
Old 2nd December 2012 | Show parent
  #84
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🎧 5 years
I never ever ever ever peak above -5dBms. No worries about clips or overs, ever - no matter what I'm converting it to!
Old 2nd December 2012 | Show parent
  #85
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioRadar ➑️
hardware? If its electronic music I'd only get 1 hardware bus compressor (I like the API2500, but can't afford the hardware one so i use the software emulation instead)... use software for the rest. Pop/rock music I don't know. And it does not mean you have to, that is just one way to get things loud.

why don't you just save yourself the money for the limiter and get the job done by a dedicated mastering engineer?
I can't afford regular payments. In the long run it's actually much cheaper to get a limiter to work with permanently.

@The K Man The problem is, that will make the songs even quieter. =_= Plus the volume knob actually muffs out the songs and makes things even quiter rather than louder.

What would be a good software limiter anyway? It's difficult for me to pick what "genre" of limiter I would need because it's a new one. It's a combination of metal and electronic house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnynotknow ➑️
"Sausage fattener" is just a really really really really overdone paralell distortion chain through an eq and compression i.e an exciter

Am abit confused as to where it says in the description on the webby "use it at low settings on single tracks and or the mix buss and sausage fattener behaves like a musical compressor" (paraphrased)

Any setting just sounds like toad in the hole (sausages swamped in gravy)

Seems like a bit of a take on image lines "soundgoodizer"

Which am pretty sure madeon uses alot of as the bigger version that soundgoodizers presets are based on maximus allows you to get silly loudness (am not exaggerating when i say silly)

But i have heard somewhere that madeon uses soundgoodizer quite liberally


Johnynotknow
The problem is, the sausage fattener actually ruins everything rather than solving everything. =_= I need my songs to sound thin, bright, sharp, yet loud. I like it fast, but not fat.
Old 2nd December 2012 | Show parent
  #86
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by clo17 ➑️
I can't afford regular payments. In the long run it's actually much cheaper to get a limiter to work with permanently.

@The K Man The problem is, that will make the songs even quieter. =_= Plus the volume knob actually muffs out the songs and makes things even quiter rather than louder.

"muffs out the songs"?

Read my handle and turn volume knob clockwise.

Problem solved.

Mastering houses are NOT volume controls.
Old 2nd December 2012 | Show parent
  #87
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_K_Man ➑️
"muffs out the songs"?

Read my handle and turn volume knob clockwise.

Problem solved.

Mastering houses are NOT volume controls.
By that I meant that the volume knob is actually useless. Quit mentioning it on the forums. =_=
Old 2nd December 2012
  #88
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🎧 5 years
no K man is right, if your volume knob is useless then you need to buy bigger/better speakers or a better amp. Percieved fullness of tracks got actually very little to do with dynamic range, but more with mixing, e.g. the correct use of compression (both to increase dynamic range, as well as reduce), panning, EQ. Every instrument needs its own space. Most vynil releases in dance music are actually limited/compressed very gently by the mastering engineer and still sound full & loud.

btw. if you can't afford regular payments, how can you afford a limiter? You also lack the mastering engineer's experience to use one.

Quote:
but he does it all himself as does deadmau5
I very much doubt that.
Old 2nd December 2012 | Show parent
  #89
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioRadar ➑️
no K man is right, if your volume knob is useless then you need to buy bigger/better speakers or a better amp. Percieved fullness of tracks got actually very little to do with dynamic range, but more with mixing, e.g. the correct use of compression (both to increase dynamic range, as well as reduce), panning, EQ. Every instrument needs its own space. Most vynil releases in dance music are actually limited/compressed very gently by the mastering engineer and still sound full & loud.

btw. if you can't afford regular payments, how can you afford a limiter? You also lack the mastering engineer's experience to use one.
By loudness, I meant the loudness of the song built-in. If I simply turned up the speakers, madeon's music would still be louder than mine, and I can't afford that. That's why he's wrong. The volume knob/speakers only affect how loud every sound will play, not the music itself. It's also why the volume knob is useless (it's just there to adjust the level of the amplifier or the computer).

By regular payments I meant regular payments in terms of buying a limiter. Do I still have to pay regularly or else it will be taken away by someone or something? =_=

I did hear deadmau5 mentioning "compressor" frequently so I know he definitely does the mastering himself.

Oh, I just found this: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...pi-2500-native

Now does anyone know how to get that to work?
Old 3rd December 2012 | Show parent
  #90
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47radAR's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by clo17 ➑️
I did hear deadmau5 mentioning "compressor" frequently so I know he definitely does the mastering himself.

How does mentioning "compressor" prove that he did the mastering? You realize that you use compressors at every stage (recording/mixing/mastering).

He didn't master at LEAST one of his projects... Greg Moore | Masterpiece Mastering London
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