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Isochrone Trinity (with or without 10M) vs Grimm cc1
Old 22nd November 2009
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Isochrone Trinity (with or without 10M) vs Grimm cc1

Would love perspectives on anyone who has tried the Trinity, with or without the 10m, vs the Grimm cc1.

Looking for a new clock for my setup.

I really would like to be able to have something that would be rock solid up to 384k (Pyramix)...I know the Trinity will clock at that level specifically.

Again...thoughts from those who've given it a shot..I appreciate it.

Thanks.


Larry Goldsmith
Old 23rd November 2009
  #2
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DSD_Mastering's Avatar
 
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🎧 10 years
In a properly designed system, external clocks don't make a difference.



Regards,
Old 23rd November 2009 | Show parent
  #3
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tobymusic's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSD_Mastering ➑️
In a properly designed system, external clocks don't make a difference.



Regards,
What exactly is a "properly designed system"?

I do own a Grimm CC1 clock, use it as a house clock for my Pro Tools HD and other peripherals. I'm using 192 i/o interfaces, and to me the CC1 did change the sound for the better.

Anyway it's always best to get one for a tryout. The build quality and the design of the Grimm clock is STELLAR. Love it!
Old 24th November 2009 | Show parent
  #4
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just.sounds's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSD_Mastering ➑️
In a properly designed system, external clocks don't make a difference.



Regards,
That is true but i have heard a lot of setups that did benefit (IMHO) from my cc1 heh
That includes systems with Lynx, Apogee , metric ULN-8 and digidesign 192 converters.

So there is a good possibility there will be an increase of sound quality n your system also (decrease is also a possibility even with a near perfect external clock).

I heard there is an upcoming test of clocks in a audio magazine i read so i will report the results back when i read them.

(havent heard the trinity love the Grimm !)
Old 24th November 2009 | Show parent
  #5
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🎧 10 years
Hmm I remember a very entertaining thread here about the Isochrone 10M (or was it the trinity) where the guy from Isochrone claimed his clock produced immeasurable THD in a test, but then went on to claim their us of 'focussed jitter' improved the sound. Robin from Karlsruhe (24-96) gave the guy a right pasting and asked for some evidence ie AB tests etc and the guy was never heard from again...

I don't doubt that these things change the sound cause the second you bring a PLL online you're asking for trouble, but I agree with Bruce, good converters and internal clocks sound best to me, I've tried clocking tools externally (DA is a Prism) and it didn't do anything good.

Of course if you need to stay frame(ish) accurate from different sample rates (ie a 96kHz playback recorded to 44.1kHz AD) then a trinity is one of the few devices that can cover three different sample rates simultaneously. Most of us with separate playback/record Daws put up with a little drift...

The King
Old 24th November 2009 | Show parent
  #6
pmx
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🎧 10 years
I've just done a little shootout between a Weiss AFI and Grimm CC1 clocking a Hedd at 44.1, with some nice results. It's all very subjective of course, and not one was better than another. It becomes a matter of taste in some way. big grains of salt here, as ymmv.

The Hedd as a master was and still is fine with me. With the Weiss as master clock things become more steady, and the top end was a bit more focused. Not a lot different, but still different. I liked it, and it's a lot cheaper than a Grimm.

With the Grimm everything became 'easier'. Maybe neutral is the way to describe it. The transients seemed more in place, not smeared but more in order with the rest of the recording. On some tracks the midhighs became more relaxing and detailed (the vocal in John Mayers' Vultures for those that know it). Not a veil being taken off, but more something like a different lens with better depth of field. another thing was that I found it easier to decide on K-stereo settings. Probably the detail again. The 'edge' that my lipinski's sometimes seem to have was a bit taken off, for the better I think. Not that it bothers me, but some people seem to do

Good thing about the Grimm is that it can supply two samplerates, good for 96 playback and 44 capture. Selling point for me! The 16 outputs are cool too, but not in a mastering context. If you have a lot of different a/d's in a recording situation, it does obviously.

Soooo... if you got a Hedd you're fine. Don't bother buying a clock unless the dough isn't a problem. Don't buy a Grimm if your acoustics aren't sorted out. 2k will get you way more detail through absorption and diffusion than the Grimm will get you. If you need a fw aes interface, buy a Weiss: good interface, good clock.

Last edited by pmx; 24th November 2009 at 04:10 PM.. Reason: &*($#@(& grimm = Grimm.
Old 12th September 2011 | Show parent
  #7
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orco's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Antelope Audio OCX or GRIMM AUDIO master clock

adding to the question.

has anyone tried the Antelope Audio OCX master clock generator with their Antelope Audio 10m Atomic Clock............. against..........

Grimm Audio's master clock with Antelope Audio 10m Atomic Clock.

I have purchased the 10m and would like some information on which Master Clock is best or are there others worth considering.

My interface I am using is an iZ ADA.

your help will be most appreciated

kind regards in music

David.
Old 15th October 2011
  #8
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
10m vs. Grimm cc1

I've owned the Trinity/10m combination for a while and wondering if there are any other long time users have compared it to the Grimm cc1?
Old 7th January 2012 | Show parent
  #9
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NeumannCollecta's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Has anyone compared the 10m/Trinity combo to just the Grimm CC1? I've always heard great things about the Grimm and wonder if an "Atomic" clock is really necessary... Seems like overkill but heck, if so many people agree that it is better.....
Old 7th January 2012
  #10
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🎧 10 years
I use the 10M/Trinity and I can assure you they definitely do make a difference!

Everything seems to sound smoother and a little more real.

Having said that, the difference is more apparent when used by a mix eng in a PTHD mulitrack situation than it is when just used in the mastering stage.

I sometimes take my clocks over to a certain mix engineers studio if I know I'm gonna be the one mastering that project.

When you AB a track count of 40+ all referenced to the 10M, the difference is night and day!

The end result winds up sounding way better which is what we're all after at the end of the day isn't it?
Old 8th January 2012
  #11
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Found this in a facebook group for engineers today:

Meet the designer: Eelco Grimm - digital clocking @ MotorMusic Studio's Mechelen
Grimm Audio specialist and designer Eelco Grimm presents an intensive digital clocking workshop. Handling the special Grimm Audio technologies like digital clocking in connection to AD-DA's, digital speakers, video clock, Date : Thursday, 12 Januari 2012, 20h00
Location : Motormusic Studio's - Kanunnik De Deckerstraat 22, B-2800 Mechelen
En natuurlijk veel bier van onze Mechelse bierbrouwerij het Anker!

topics that will be covered:

- 48000.000Hz clock makes audio sound better than 48000.100Hz?
- clock stability vs ultimate musical timing & stability of tone
- correlation between jitter and sound quality
- cleaning the digital feed to your DA
- Video to Word Clock Convertion
- Atomic clocks for audio
- Word Clock distribution
- AES/EBU sync
- reclocking
Old 8th January 2012 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Table Of Tone ➑️
I use the 10M/Trinity and I can assure you they definitely do make a difference!

Everything seems to sound smoother and a little more real.

Having said that, the difference is more apparent when used by a mix eng in a PTHD mulitrack situation than it is when just used in the mastering stage.

I sometimes take my clocks over to a certain mix engineers studio if I know I'm gonna be the one mastering that project.

When you AB a track count of 40+ all referenced to the 10M, the difference is night and day!

The end result winds up sounding way better which is what we're all after at the end of the day isn't it?
I don't have the 10m I just have the Trinity and that does make a big difference to my 192 and to the new HD io which I have tested it on also.

I also tried adding the 10m and it was better still, but I had to draw the line on the spending somewhere!

The Trinity is very useful if you intend to do any video work as it does vid refs as well including HD tri level. I do the odd bit so that swung it for me.

Someone asked do you have to have the 10m, well no you don'y just the Trinity is an improvement but the 10m is the cream.

I didn't used to believe in the external clock thing but the Antelope changed my mind.

If you use outboard and most of us do having a better clock at all these DAAD ADDA stages makes a bigger difference. I've noticed that projects that were recorded all the way with the clock seem to be better to me anyway.
Old 6th February 2017 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmx ➑️
I've just done a little shootout between a Weiss AFI and Grimm CC1 clocking a Hedd at 44.1, with some nice results. It's all very subjective of course, and not one was better than another. It becomes a matter of taste in some way. big grains of salt here, as ymmv.

The Hedd as a master was and still is fine with me. With the Weiss as master clock things become more steady, and the top end was a bit more focused. Not a lot different, but still different. I liked it, and it's a lot cheaper than a Grimm.

With the Grimm everything became 'easier'. Maybe neutral is the way to describe it. The transients seemed more in place, not smeared but more in order with the rest of the recording. On some tracks the midhighs became more relaxing and detailed (the vocal in John Mayers' Vultures for those that know it). Not a veil being taken off, but more something like a different lens with better depth of field. another thing was that I found it easier to decide on K-stereo settings. Probably the detail again. The 'edge' that my lipinski's sometimes seem to have was a bit taken off, for the better I think. Not that it bothers me, but some people seem to do

Good thing about the Grimm is that it can supply two samplerates, good for 96 playback and 44 capture. Selling point for me! The 16 outputs are cool too, but not in a mastering context. If you have a lot of different a/d's in a recording situation, it does obviously.

Soooo... if you got a Hedd you're fine. Don't bother buying a clock unless the dough isn't a problem. Don't buy a Grimm if your acoustics aren't sorted out. 2k will get you way more detail through absorption and diffusion than the Grimm will get you. If you need a fw aes interface, buy a Weiss: good interface, good clock.
As I own a HEDD , I'm really interested in your feedback.
My setup has an Orion32 as 24ch DA->summing on a Dangerous Music 2-bus+ -> HEDD 192 for AD
I also own and Apollo 8 for UAD plugins and as preamp for mic/guitar, but a slave unit to Orion32 or hedd.

Until now, I as using Orion's clock as master clock of the other two units, but after reading the Pink paper review Pink Paper #002 – The Future of Clocks: Clarifications in the Audio Clocking Paradigm | pink noise, and as I'm in the waiting list of new HEDD's quantum DA upgrade, I'm considering use HEDD as master clock. In the new quantum DA would also improve its internal clock, jitter will be ridiculous low.
Another option is GRIMM's CC1/CC2, but I'm not completely sure that it would have a big improvement on my setup..

what do you think?
Old 7th February 2017 | Show parent
  #14
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da goose's Avatar
 
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9 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by esencia ➑️
As I own a HEDD , I'm really interested in your feedback.
My setup has an Orion32 as 24ch DA->summing on a Dangerous Music 2-bus+ -> HEDD 192 for AD
I also own and Apollo 8 for UAD plugins and as preamp for mic/guitar, but a slave unit to Orion32 or hedd.

Until now, I as using Orion's clock as master clock of the other two units, but after reading the Pink paper review Pink Paper #002 – The Future of Clocks: Clarifications in the Audio Clocking Paradigm | pink noise, and as I'm in the waiting list of new HEDD's quantum DA upgrade, I'm considering use HEDD as master clock. In the new quantum DA would also improve its internal clock, jitter will be ridiculous low.
Another option is GRIMM's CC1/CC2, but I'm not completely sure that it would have a big improvement on my setup..

what do you think?
I'm afraid you won't get an answer from PMX, he's not into mastering any more.
Old 20th July 2017
  #15
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has anybody clocked the MH ULN8 by the Grimm?
uln8's sound has degraded clocked externally (wordclock, not aes) by forssell mada2a
Old 21st July 2017 | Show parent
  #16
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by babmusician ➑️
has anybody clocked the MH ULN8 by the Grimm?
uln8's sound has degraded clocked externally (wordclock, not aes) by forssell mada2a
When clocked via AES input the ULN-8 was better for me with the Grimm Clock.
Never liked external clocking of the ULN-8 via WC.
Old 21st July 2017
  #17
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lowland's Avatar
 
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16 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
External clocking - a right old chestnut as can be seen by the age of this thread!

The HEDD's internal clock still does it for me for mastering: I had a Drawmer M Clock driving things a while back, it worked well but didn't sound any better. If I'd had a few more devices to clock or had been frequently working to picture (I've had good results with the Rosendahl Nanosyncs for AV work) I might have justified it, but I couldn't ultimately see advantage in complicating my fairly simple setup.

BTW, the M Clock is for sale if anyone has more need than I did for an AES11 Grade 1 clock.
Old 17th April 2018 | Show parent
  #18
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1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by esencia ➑️
As I own a HEDD , I'm really interested in your feedback.
My setup has an Orion32 as 24ch DA->summing on a Dangerous Music 2-bus+ -> HEDD 192 for AD
I also own and Apollo 8 for UAD plugins and as preamp for mic/guitar, but a slave unit to Orion32 or hedd.

Until now, I as using Orion's clock as master clock of the other two units, but after reading the Pink paper review Pink Paper #002 – The Future of Clocks: Clarifications in the Audio Clocking Paradigm | pink noise, and as I'm in the waiting list of new HEDD's quantum DA upgrade, I'm considering use HEDD as master clock. In the new quantum DA would also improve its internal clock, jitter will be ridiculous low.
Another option is GRIMM's CC1/CC2, but I'm not completely sure that it would have a big improvement on my setup..

what do you think?
My case is similar. Current gear is HEDD + 3 x Aurora 16, but i just purchased an Orion Studio HD for remote recording and considering the Orion 32 HD to couple with the Orion Studio. All this clocked to either a Grimm, HEDD or Antelope 10MX.

In Mexico it's not easy to demo stuff so i'll only be able to compare the HEDD, Antelope 10MX, Orion and Aurora 16 clocks. Don't think i can demo the HEDD Quantum or Grimm down here, so any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!

Last edited by raal; 18th April 2018 at 10:43 PM..
Old 18th April 2018
  #19
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🎧 5 years
has anyone tried a cc1 or cc2 with a prism lyra/titan/orpheus or with any sound devices recorders?
Old 18th April 2018 | Show parent
  #20
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by whippoorwill ➑️
has anyone tried a cc1 or cc2 with a prism lyra/titan/orpheus or with any sound devices recorders?
I'm using the CC2 with my SD recorders when doing serious classical recording work. Not so much to improve the SDs, but to improve the outboard converters and sync the whole chain. SDs are more of a bit bucket then. As a rule of thumb you can improve the quality of a converter when it has a fast locking PLL while there is no real difference when using a slow locking PLL. The SD recorders generally have a slow locking PLL, because they are aimed at keeping time code (the measuring of time) synchronized over a prolonged period of time.

How quick the Prism converters lock I don't know. Try it out with an external clock signal: if the converter immediately follows (and locks to) a clock speed switch it has most likely a fast locking PLL.
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