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Metallica and Rick Rubin win Grammy's for "Death Magnetic"
Old 1st March 2009 | Show parent
  #61
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Taurean's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Here's the thing. I'm not sure there is a good alternative or at least there hasn't been yet. Just going on the examples you listed, they aren't viable due to the fact that they are already big names. They have the luxury to experiment. They are fortunate enough to have been most active during the "dark times" of the record labels being more in control. They've made comparatively much more money than newer bands and have already developed momentum. Whether or not that's a placebo or not, one must admit that having had a chance to build such momentum certainly pays off for the future. It’s almost like, no matter what happens, people will be looking for you; looking to see what you are up to, etc. I mean this was a thread about Metallica so let's take them for example. First of all, I loved and grew up with Metallica but sort of didn't really acknowledge them from black album and on. Then 2008 they do Death Magnetic and the love is back (musically speaking of course, not sonically). But here's the important question: aside from the fact of their contributions to developing metal back in the day, had they not had all of the momentum and spoils of times in which it was possible to be or get so big, would they have had a (3rd or 4th) chance to spring back to life with Death Magnetic after a good portion of the metal community considered a lot of the 90's stuff and st anger not so great or dare I say failures? Ok, I don't want to go track here to much. The point is if we have gotten to the point where we have to say "okay we can't simply sell records anymore to make money" there is a severe problem. It's not about being bitter, it's about questioning what we are becoming as human beings. If the idea that intellectual property is our rag doll and we should be able to have any of it at any time and is becoming second nature, that's sick man! There's a severe problem. There's no need to rethink selling to fix our current problems. There's something called compromise. There can be record labels and aspirations of larger than life success but it can be made fair. Maybe record labels don't charge SO much for a CD. Maybe people respect intellectual property and also re-evaluate behaviors and how we value things. Thinking around this stuff is not moving with the times, it's surrendering to the times unnecessarily. Think about it this way, these older school cats had the life when it came to living as a musician, this should tell you that simple system worked. There should be in hindsight, a revision of that system, but that too because our digital times must be handled with care. It all depends on us.
Old 1st March 2009 | Show parent
  #62
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Pryzefighter's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
To Lucey...
Point taken... the oscars (awards) have been better lately. Forgive me for over generalizing.
Old 2nd March 2009 | Show parent
  #63
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Pryzefighter's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
We are So Far from Metallica now

Well I have to agree with transcending that the names I listed are definitely already big acts and have the room to experiment. Taken that fact and that I don't know any big names that made it in a new fashioned way (I am kinda out of sync w/ popular culture) I have to ask again what the alternatives are. It seems to me that there are a few I can think of:

1) Huge government crackdown - isn't that what all the FBI warnings are about? We could get the FBI out and round up anyone with "pirated" material on their computers etc. and either fine them the $250,000 or put them in jail for five years.

2) Software protections - already exist I know... but they are an option.

3) Pressing to Vinyl only - thats really fu(9^in hard to burn huh?

4) Music so available, cheap, and high quality that no one would try to spend an hour on a File sharing system putting together an album of 128kps B.S.

I don't know if anyone else has any other ideas, but it seems to me that 3 and 4 are the only options. Number one would be worse than arresting every pot smoker in America. We would have more jails than houses. And number two is repeatedly and easily defeated by hackers. Finally both one and two put all the power back in the record companies hands. Three would be alright with me because I am a vinyl freak... it would just be hard to find some material. So considering all things I guess number four is the only reasonable option.

If you made your material cheap enough and 320 kps on a fast server you might stand a chance against file sharing... What do you think?
Old 2nd March 2009 | Show parent
  #64
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Taurean's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pryzefighter ➡️
Well I have to agree with transcending that the names I listed are definitely already big acts and have the room to experiment. Taken that fact and that I don't know any big names that made it in a new fashioned way (I am kinda out of sync w/ popular culture) I have to ask again what the alternatives are. It seems to me that there are a few I can think of:

1) Huge government crackdown - isn't that what all the FBI warnings are about? We could get the FBI out and round up anyone with "pirated" material on their computers etc. and either fine them the $250,000 or put them in jail for five years.

2) Software protections - already exist I know... but they are an option.

3) Pressing to Vinyl only - thats really fu(9^in hard to burn huh?

4) Music so available, cheap, and high quality that no one would try to spend an hour on a File sharing system putting together an album of 128kps B.S.

I don't know if anyone else has any other ideas, but it seems to me that 3 and 4 are the only options. Number one would be worse than arresting every pot smoker in America. We would have more jails than houses. And number two is repeatedly and easily defeated by hackers. Finally both one and two put all the power back in the record companies hands. Three would be alright with me because I am a vinyl freak... it would just be hard to find some material. So considering all things I guess number four is the only reasonable option.

If you made your material cheap enough and 320 kps on a fast server you might stand a chance against file sharing... What do you think?
Well those are some practical approaches. In and of themselves, they aren't bad ideas. I like 4 most. But I'm approaching this I suppose a bit more with a quixotic vision of how things should change. Not too immediately helpful, I admit, but better in the long run. I mean really, the spirit of the matter must be revised. Like I said, lets even have the record labels, even with idea #4 but with the "right people." I firmly believe, even though belief is conjecture, that we can have our cake and eat it too. Just need some fair and non-greedy folk at the helm. I know that's possible. So far, this has been accomplished in the software realm by a select few which is fantastic. I'm not definitely not suggesting an egalitarian-like setup, no. That gives us nothing to aspire to; kind of takes that dream of "maybe me someday" in being part of something bigger than yourself. However, aboslutely not to the extent of these insatiable record labels and business men who have had a hand in ruining things for everybody. There's hierarchy and then there's tyranny.
Old 4th March 2009 | Show parent
  #65
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Table Of Tone's Avatar
 
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8 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Pushed way too far and not enough!

I find it really hard to believe that "Death Magnetic" was taken way too far, to the point where it should be re-done, and "Chinese Democracy" is actually quieter than most early 90's CD's and has "no legs"!

Obviously, the G N' R record has not actually been destroyed but who approved these records to go to press?

I find it a little hard to understand, as both Bob Ludwig and Ted Jensen usually do great work, I mean listen to "American Idiot" (Green day) or "Attack and Release" (Black Keys)!

Everyone can have a bad and I suspect that Mr. Jensen was probably left with no time and a crazy guy sitting at the back of his room going "Can you get it even more aggressive?"
He probably had his head in his hands when he listened to it the next, knowing that it had already gone to the replicators!

Us mastering guys are often left with little or no time as the mixing nearly always goes over schedule.

Even if the mixes had already had their hair cut (as was reported on DM), just EQ it a little and dither it to 16 bits!
Old 5th March 2009 | Show parent
  #66
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Pryzefighter's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Maybe we are on topic since this is about Metallica

Quote:
Originally Posted by TranscendingM ➡️
Well those are some practical approaches. In and of themselves, they aren't bad ideas. I like 4 most. But I'm approaching this I suppose a bit more with a quixotic vision of how things should change. Not too immediately helpful, I admit, but better in the long run. I mean really, the spirit of the matter must be revised. Like I said, lets even have the record labels, even with idea #4 but with the "right people." I firmly believe, even though belief is conjecture, that we can have our cake and eat it too. Just need some fair and non-greedy folk at the helm. I know that's possible. So far, this has been accomplished in the software realm by a select few which is fantastic. I'm not definitely not suggesting an egalitarian-like setup, no. That gives us nothing to aspire to; kind of takes that dream of "maybe me someday" in being part of something bigger than yourself. However, aboslutely not to the extent of these insatiable record labels and business men who have had a hand in ruining things for everybody. There's hierarchy and then there's tyranny.


I agree... Seems that hashing out the details are going to be the crux of the issue. As I was saying in an earlier post; I don't have the answer and I think we are still operating at ground zero of the digital revolution. A synchronicity occurred while I was working the night shift. I was reading Nashville magazine from a few months ago and this whole issue pretty much as laid out in the forum was the topic of an article. It ended with several versions of scenario four in my previous post.

One was accepting downloaded songs as a front end loss, or "bait" for the actual product, which is the artist, merchandise, etc (as distastful as that is for many of us to think about.) The other option that was interesting was charging like 5 cents for a download instead of 99 but taking the gamble that you could outdo the file sharers with supply and quality. After all the article stated something is better than nothing.

I'm not advocating anything, just stimulating discussion on a topic that I think should be at the forefront of everyone's minds who has not already "made it" in this business.
Old 5th March 2009 | Show parent
  #67
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by starfighter ➡️
Or come to think of it; maybe that's exactly what it is.... Anyone who has seen the Some kind of monster movie will appreciate that Mr. Rubin needs exceptional diplomatic skills to have this band working together and pulling in the same direction
Thats the impression I got from the film as well.
Old 5th March 2009 | Show parent
  #68
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pryzefighter ➡️
I understand the argument but I think it falls short. Seems to me that there are plenty of opportunities for artists to make money besides letting the record industry be their pimp. The heart of the issue is the record industry, which as David Byrne said is thankfully in it's death throes now. People used to be able to buy records for five bucks, even in the eighties, then with CD's record companies thought they had a proprietary gold mine and began a gradual rate hike that has ended in some new albums costing more than $15. If CD's were more reasonably priced then more people would buy them. I download A LOT of music and still spend a lot on CDs and records. Like thousands of dollars in my life. My take on digital music is that people who listen to the top ten aren't really that into music and aren't going to have extensive libraries anyway. I think the highly positive side of music distributed online in any form is exposure, exposure, exposure.

For example this week I downloaded "Full Moon Fever" by Tom Petty (which I bought back in the nineties and it was stolen; incidentally) and even though this is "illegal" I have purchased about 6 or 7 other Petty albums from the store. As a side benefit I have been running my mouth to anyone who will listen about Full Moon Fever, Tom Petty and Jeff Lynne... So I think that makes my point. This goes for the smaller guys too...if their sh1t is good they won't be "the small guys" for long.

Finally on the issue of profit; a great musician will always find ways to turn some coin. I think the best and most rewarding method is through touring, but also through merchandising, special pressings and packages for hardcore fans, vinyl, and lastly by making their product cheap and available. I jumped on Radiohead's "In Rainbows" as soon as I heard about the online deal and paid $5, cause I am a for real "starving" artist.

Lastly I don't think music can really be "stolen" unless someone takes your song and sells it to advertise or distributes it themselves for profit. It's not the same medium as the Mona Lisa; where someone could snatch it and hide it away forever. Music is eternally reproducable and enjoyable in the same form as it was created in. Thats why I love music.
__________________________________________

"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."
Call it ''promotion'' and ''exposure'' if you like and by all means log on and download away but please do not compare major label music with independent acts as if they where equal in content and equal in intent.

It is actually a lot worse for the indie producers to continue what they do because of illegal file-sharing. They are not the big-brands with the sponsorship contracts or the TV Time. They are not the people with the rich uncle in the majors. They are not the people with the big name agents that can pack stadiums. They rely on record sales make a living. Not t-shirts and baseball hats.

This global scale piracy is making it harder and harder for them to continue doing what they do.

This has the following effect:

They adopt a more commercial sound to make their music accessible to a wider audience in hopes their album will get picked up by the docile masses of 13-year olds and their soccer-moms looking for cool sounds to make their brand new cell-phone ring at.
Or worse they stop making music all together and get a 9-5.

This pushes the music back to the majors all at the expense of variety and quality in art. ''Art'' is now product posing as art. This ''art'' has the same problem you have it lies to itself and others...
Old 5th March 2009 | Show parent
  #69
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Pryzefighter's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Careyn ➡️

This pushes the music back to the majors all at the expense of variety and quality in art. ''Art'' is now product posing as art. This ''art'' has the same problem you have it lies to itself and others...
Could I ask how I am lying to myself and others? That is a little confusing. Otherwise I think you are making the same mistake a lot of people make which is mutually excluding art that is successful as "not art." I would agree that some things are shoved down our throats by the labels... But some things rise to the top because they are the best.
Old 5th March 2009 | Show parent
  #70
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Pryzefighter's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
As a side question... Who are all these indie acts you are talking about that are being hurt? Could you name ten?
Old 7th March 2009 | Show parent
  #71
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JSummer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The enemy always rewards his most devoted followers with such worldly things.

Oh yes, next to no one cares about audio quality or quality in general anymore. That's what happens when a generation loses inspiration. Maybe the pendulum will swing back...
Old 8th March 2009 | Show parent
  #72
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Pryzefighter's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
dfegadOooooooooooooookaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy....

So all the good debate is over with then...
Old 22nd March 2009 | Show parent
  #73
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffSanders ➡️
It's all about the energy and vibe.
Yeah, you got it right!
**** sound and recording, it's just the Academy of the Recording Arts!


Pupo
Old 23rd March 2009 | Show parent
  #74
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🎧 10 years
Grammy

Ummm...since when did a "Grammy" mean anything? Music is art...how can ANYONE determine what the best piece of art is? It is all contrived BS to feed egos. We all know there is AMAZING work being done each and every day by brilliant people like yourselves and wonderful artists that aren't in the right place at the right time or don't care to be. They are happy in their own skin. In the end...would you change a thing just to get a worthless trophy to sit on a shelf? Would you want to change your own principles just to gain the validation of others?

It isn't a "travesty"...it is a bunch of egotistical people patting each other on the back. Who cares...
Old 23rd March 2009 | Show parent
  #75
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lucey's Avatar
 
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1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Music Award = oxymoron

Awards are important as social and economic events. Nothing more.
Old 23rd March 2009
  #76
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor ➡️
Metallica wins the Grammy for best Metal Performance and Rick Rubin for Producer of the Year.
Must be good then.
Old 24th March 2009
  #77
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor ➡️
Metallica wins the Grammy for best Metal Performance and Rick Rubin for Producer of the Year.

I called it months ago in this thread:

Death Magnetic

Its the Naras members that voted which includes alot of technical people including us.

It goes on to show that nobody cares or not enough to make the differences needed.
what a NUT PUNCH!
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