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Speaker emulation on headphones
Old 7th February 2009
  #1
Here for the gear
 
Headphone Hi-Fi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Speaker emulation on headphones

Hello,
I'm new here and need an appraisal on my attempt to achieve the sound of a near-field monitoring system on headphones.
My solution also use EQs and delays like others do, maybe with the difference of applying two additional paths for a better "out of head localization".
I saw in the treats that mastering with headphones is an ongoing discussion, so maybe some of you are interested in this approach.
I would like to invite you to visit my webpage http://www.headphonehifi.ch and on the Demo-page you can appraise the sound quality directly with your own headphones.
Any feedback would be very kind as I admire your high skilled ears and it would be a big help for further improvements.

Best regards,

Erich
Old 7th February 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
You can make reliable out of head localization without a head tracker?

Has been tried many times before and it never worked. I'm curious how you do it.
Do you know the Studer/IRT system?
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #3
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Headphone Hi-Fi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
You can make reliable out of head localization without a head tracker?
I think so. Check the demos.

Has been tried many times before and it never worked.
I'm trying now for more than tree years.

Do you know the Studer/IRT system?
No but I've heard from the Beyerdynamic Headzone. Just didn't had the opportunity to test yet.

Erich
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #4
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
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1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Good site to know about HeadWize - Breaking News
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #5
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macc's Avatar
 
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3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I'm very interested in this, but would much prefer to have something I can use on material hre while I am working. Is there a beta test or demo, or something similar?

Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #6
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fradoca's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
it's out :

112dB


just give it a try

nice price
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #7
kjg
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by fradoca ➑️
it's out :

112dB


just give it a try

nice price
for those who wants to know without having to login to their paypal account: it is 69 euro.
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Here for the gear
 
Headphone Hi-Fi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by macc ➑️
I'm very interested in this, but would much prefer to have something I can use on material hre while I am working. Is there a beta test or demo, or something similar?
Unfortunately Headphone Hi-Fi is still in a state of development. That's why I asked for an appraisal. But I agree for judging the own material is the best. So I visited your homepage (impressive list of equipment) , took one of your samples and recorded it with the Headphone Hi-Fi setup (m4a) and sent it as an attachment. So you can make an A/B comparison with your monitors.
If you want an other sample just send it directly to [email protected]

Erich
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #9
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macc's Avatar
 
Verified Member
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Thanks very much for that - where did you send it? I haven't received anything.

If you do need a beta tester then lemme know

BTW I want to reorganise the site... we put everything there but a lot of it is in the mix studio (obviously). Just been to busy to arrange it properly!
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #10
LPK
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Not bad, but still altering the overall sound to much in my opinion.
The effect should just be not as strong I think.
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #11
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jordanstoner's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
This is an affect that is "cheating" room simulation by adding discreet delays to emulate a room's early reflections (in a general sense). It is impossible to accurately reproduce a room's reflections without a multi-sample image, or convolution, of that room.

Although processors like these can be kitsch for "previewing" a "room," they can never be truly accurate without much more advanced gadgetry. Simply keep in mind that they are simulations and are fraught with inaccuracies (if compared to their real-world counterparts).

It would be interesting if you could sample different reflective surfaces with different amounts of treatment at different distances and speaker placements (and, for that matter, different monitors) and build a nice GUI that let's you design your room. However, even then - it's just a nice "toy," and not something that I'd rely on for accuracy.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #12
Here for the gear
 
Headphone Hi-Fi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jordanstoner ➑️
This is an affect that is "cheating" room simulation by adding discreet delays to emulate a room's early reflections (in a general sense). It is impossible to accurately reproduce a room's reflections without a multi-sample image, or convolution, of that room.

Although processors like these can be kitsch for "previewing" a "room," they can never be truly accurate without much more advanced gadgetry. Simply keep in mind that they are simulations and are fraught with inaccuracies (if compared to their real-world counterparts).

It would be interesting if you could sample different reflective surfaces with different amounts of treatment at different distances and speaker placements (and, for that matter, different monitors) and build a nice GUI that let's you design your room. However, even then - it's just a nice "toy," and not something that I'd rely on for accuracy.
You're absolutely right with your description of a room simulation but in the process of Headphone Hi-Fi all delays are far below 1ms and as I know early reflexions starts at much higher delays times. It has more to do with HRTF (head related transfer function).

I also agree with the "kitsch" of trying to simulate a room. Even with a good convolution reverb it's hard to simulate a real room.

If you listen to normal (not binaural) stereo music on headphones you have not only this bothersome "In-head localization" but also a wrong sound, because the sound source is not placed at the same angle as speakers within the stereo triangle. This displacement has a huge influence to the frequency response. Headphone Hi-Fi attempt to reduce the different sound experience between headphones and speakers.

You can be assured that all spatiality you can hear in the demos are already in the original recordings.

Best regards,

Erich
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #13
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jordanstoner's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
So, in effect, your using HRTF algorithms in place of early reflection simulations to triangulate a "source." I get that, and I think it's cool.

I just wouldn't mix or master this way (exclusively).

Cool for hobbyists, kitsch for pros - that's all I'm saying. But for project or bedroom studios needing to keep the volume down for neighbors, it makes perfect sense... as long as the results aren't taken at face-value and are checked on other playback systems not reliant on headphones.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #14
Here for the gear
 
Headphone Hi-Fi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jordanstoner ➑️
So, in effect, your using HRTF algorithms in place of early reflection simulations to triangulate a "source." I get that, and I think it's cool.

I just wouldn't mix or master this way (exclusively).

Cool for hobbyists, kitsch for pros - that's all I'm saying. But for project or bedroom studios needing to keep the volume down for neighbors, it makes perfect sense... as long as the results aren't taken at face-value and are checked on other playback systems not reliant on headphones.
I do agree with your argument. Headphones can't replace a good monitoring system.
I would not say it's "kitsch" for pros as the sound gap between Headphone Hi-Fi and near-field monitors is not that big.
Erich
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