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Favorite analog comps for mastering
Old 1st February 2009
  #1
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🎧 10 years
Favorite analog comps for mastering

SSL type comps (SSL, Smart, Danfield, etc.), Tube tech CL1B's, API 2500, EL Distressors, EL Fatso, others?

What are you guys using? And why?
Do you use different comps depending on the music?
Old 1st February 2009
  #2
Mastering
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joemamma
Do you use different comps depending on the music?
My goodness, of course! There is no "all in one" solution, though in my opinion the closest piece that comes to this is the Trakker (you need 2) by Cranesong because of its versatility and ability to emulate many different units. But it can be a little too heavy-handed when trying to give some punch to rock, so if you can set up an external analog parallel route (mixer) to go along with your Trakkers you can multiply your possibilities by 10. For example, a Trakker set to work very aggressively on a piece of rock and roll, mixed in to taste can be just the finishing touch.

BK
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #3
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carlsaff's Avatar
 
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🎧 15 years
For me:

Cranesong STC-8: Generally the choice for rock, acoustic music, jazz, or any style where compression is needed but I don't want the compressor to call too much attention to itself.

API 2500: Generally the choice when more aggressive compression and/or tone is desired. I usually give it a try when the music is punk, metal, hiphop or the colder and more aggressive electronic genres.

Requisite L2M mk. III: I rarely use this as my only compressor/limiter, but it is almost always in the chain because I like the tone of it so much. I use it very frequently as a high-frequency limiter after either the 2500 or STC-8.

These give me all of the options I could want, especially since I find myself using more conservative amounts of compression as the years pass (digital limiting is, of course, a different story). I have some plugins that provide decent backup compression, as well (PSP Mastercomp gets use now and then).
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Mastering
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlsaff ➑️
For me:
Let's not forget some of the tube units. Particularly the OCL-2, which is both transparent yet can be used to subtly sweeten and subtly control harsh stuff just enough.

BK
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #5
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Waltz Mastering's Avatar
 
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I'm not sure distressor's or fatso's are being used that much in mastering, even though I have both I think they're use is better for tracking and mixing.

For every post you'll probably get a different answer according to taste.

There are many compressor's out there for mastering...Manley, Cranesong, Neve, GML, Therminonic Culture, Tube-Tech, Millennia, Pendulum, Prism Maselec and many more.

I tend to favor the Tube Tech SMC 2B and Manley Vari Mu. I love the sound I get out of them.

TW
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
I'm using the Stc-8 and the Thermionic Phoenix . I really like the way both of these units work together and between them they cover a lot of ground . Never tried the trackers but they seem like a good first choice if you are on a restricted budget but want to cover a lot of ground .

If I could add two more boxes to my chain I would take the Ocl-2 (with Bob's mod) and the Vertigo VSC-2 which a friend of mine owns and really does sound sublime on a broad range of genres .

Anyway just my 2 cents thumbsup
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #7
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🎧 10 years
-tubetech smc2b here - quite useable unit - technicaly and soundwise
-vertigo vsc-2 which can do some realy nice things to the audio
-oram sonicomp2 providing 2 different operation modes
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #8
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🎧 10 years
and
i listened to the elysia alpha at the aes which seems to be an cool unit to..
and drawmer s3 shure..
if i had 15.000 bucks left i would complete my rack with them
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #9
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Γ€hhm - i forgot owning the TUBE-TECH CL 2A

but its mostly on bypass couse i hear it to much
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #10
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
just came to my mind..
i could SELL my TUBETECH CL2A and my ORAM SONICOMP2 couse i`d like to BUY an HEDD 192....
anybody out there ?
or equipmentchange?
i`m not in an hurryhttps://gearspace.com/board/images/smilies/ylsmoke.gif
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #11
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🎧 10 years
I can't seem to take my EAR660s out of the chain ...
Just got a TK Audio BC1 delivered, very nice SSL type comp, full bodied and clean,
can be subtle or gluey and grabby, built in blend (parallel compression on board) is a genius, hpf 150hz or external SC - overall very well specced and great sounding unit, cheap. Not your main mastering comp of course... If there is one then EAR660 for me,
just does magic on pretty much everything. Expensive.
I also use Millennia TCL-2 with Mullards (for the tube path) but mostly in solid state for mastering (660s take care of tubes) for clean and transparent stuff. Very hi-fi sound, not clinical (don't like their eq), like the precise adjustments but recall difficult...
Used to have trakkers - very versatile indeed, bit squashed with higher ratios so parallel a good suggestion... also had STC-8, classed as "transparent" yet I felt there was a lower mid push that made it sound "big" and "warm" and a bit "lumpy" and "slow". Very nice for jazz etc, didn't do the "punch" and "tight" for me...
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #12
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lowland's Avatar
 
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I've been very happy with my Chandler LTD-2s (mastering version). There isn't much I wouldn't use them on, which may surprise some, and I've found them to be much more general-purpose than the standard version - mine at least don't have anything like the amount of thick-n-creamy clouration that the standard ones do.

They're probably really in their element with rock, but carefully set they can work well with anything from the most delicate of acoustic material to full-blown film score-style orchestra-plus-programming; I also haven't been troubled with the 'grabbiness' some report, perhaps because I rarely use more than about 1dB GR. About the only compressor I've heard that I liked well enough to also consider has been the Vertigo as it seems to come at things in a pleasingly different way and I'd like to hear the Elysia Alpha, but I'm in no hurry to add a compressor at the moment.

Things to consider with the LTD-2s: as gain makeup increases so does colouration, often quite handy for adding that little extra to heavier material; bypass is not hardwire but leaves the non-compression elements in-circuit - but the sweetness of the transformers makes a subtle but usable addition and I find myself doing this quite a lot; finally, as has been pointed out before, the compressors are not very well screened and one needs care in ensuring that neither their own power supply nor other equipment from which they can pick up hum are sited too close - in my case they are above the Masterlink with which they co-exist quite happily.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #13
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24-96 Mastering's Avatar
 
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Crane Song STC-8: My favourite compressor for drum punch / bass pump / nice bouncy rounding. Rarely use it for purely transparent compression, but it works quite well there too.

Manley Vari-MU with T-BAR & SC mods: great for warm, creamy tube tone in compress. less creamy and more controlled in limit mode. Great for some rock & indie "attitude". Great for other styles as well.

Requisite L2M mk3 (Mazda NOS tubes): great tone machine. The limiting gets used reasonably rarely. can work wonders if something "screams" a bit in the mids, high mids & tops without making it too soft... works a bit like a focus lense, unlike EQ and unlike compression. This unit is a bit hard to grasp, but when it works, it really works and just puts things that are out of place into place.

TFPro P38EX: Provided I get some headroom issues worked out with Ted, (some other mods will also be put in) this will be my new unit for parallel compression to get glue/grab/dirt/flunch(yes, flunch)/mud/thickening/extreme-effects/etc.

Tube-Tech SMC 2b: haven't got it yet, so can't say much about it. Looking to have it in the rack for subtle wideness, subtle bigness (for lack of a better word), subtle sweetening, possibly to actually control specific bands dynamically.
By the way, does anyone know if there's any way to mod it so that the band splitting can be completely bypassed and it can be used for single-band operation/compression?


I'm insanely curious about the Vertigo. They offered to send it over for a test drive, but at the (imo) hefty price of 3800 Euro (net), I'd very much hope to not like it. So I guess I shouldn't try it in the first place.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #14
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🎧 10 years
The smc 2b looks nice! And the cranesong stuff too!
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #15
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🎧 10 years
Is anyone using 1176's/1178's? LA2A's?

Also, do you use different comps when working on an album, or do you stick with one or two comps for all the tracks?
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #16
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Waltz Mastering's Avatar
 
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The Requisite L2M mk3 is based off the La 2a Design + a whole bit more.

I don't think the 1176 products get used so much for mastering.

TW
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #17
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Ben F's Avatar
 
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering ➑️

Tube-Tech SMC 2b: haven't got it yet, so can't say much about it. Looking to have it in the rack for subtle wideness, subtle bigness (for lack of a better word), subtle sweetening, possibly to actually control specific bands dynamically.
By the way, does anyone know if there's any way to mod it so that the band splitting can be completely bypassed and it can be used for single-band operation/compression?
For this reason I prefer the Tube-Tech CL2A. I very rarely require multi band compression, and if I do the Weiss DS-1 more than covers this. I could hear the SMC 2B 'working' a lot on the signal, tended to make things sound softer. Generally I can get away with single band compression with a side-chain filter. Then, if a certain frequency band requires more compression, it's followed by the DS-1. The SMC 2B was too broad for my taste, plus you can't solo each band- but this is an easy mod that's worth doing. Found the CL 2A much closer to what I enjoy about that 'Tube-tech' sound, and it can be used in M/S mode due to being a dual mono unit. To my ears it sounded close enough to the dual CL 1As it has replaced. I'm going to modify the 3 position 'link' switches to have a 75Hz and 150Hz side chain HPF.

I imagine it wouldn't be to difficult to modify the SMC 2B into a single band unit- just by bypassing the crossovers in the side chain...however I feel as a single band unit it would not have the edge sonically over the CL 2A. I would only get the 'mastering' version of the SMC 2B as it's a pain having to align all 3 frequency band gain knobs before every session. It also has to be aligned often- I've heard many of the multi-bands sound very different as they were out of alignment. One that I had on loan sounded quite wrong actually!
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #18
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Adam Dempsey's Avatar
 
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🎧 10 years
In rough order of frequency of use lately:
STC-8 (Hara or Ki mode)
Vertigo VSC-2
(both clean and very flexible; the VSC-2 simply has that snappy VCA sound)

Chandler LTD-2's (mastering mod)
Manley Vari-Mu (M-S mod though usually in L-R mode)
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #19
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24-96 Mastering's Avatar
 
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben F ➑️
For this reason I prefer the Tube-Tech CL2A. I very rarely require multi band compression, and if I do the Weiss DS-1 more than covers this. I could hear the SMC 2B 'working' a lot on the signal, tended to make things sound softer. Generally I can get away with single band compression with a side-chain filter. Then, if a certain frequency band requires more compression, it's followed by the DS-1. The SMC 2B was too broad for my taste, plus you can't solo each band- but this is an easy mod that's worth doing. Found the CL 2A much closer to what I enjoy about that 'Tube-tech' sound, and it can be used in M/S mode due to being a dual mono unit. To my ears it sounded close enough to the dual CL 1As it has replaced. I'm going to modify the 3 position 'link' switches to have a 75Hz and 150Hz side chain HPF.

I imagine it wouldn't be to difficult to modify the SMC 2B into a single band unit- just by bypassing the crossovers in the side chain...however I feel as a single band unit it would not have the edge sonically over the CL 2A. I would only get the 'mastering' version of the SMC 2B as it's a pain having to align all 3 frequency band gain knobs before every session. It also has to be aligned often- I've heard many of the multi-bands sound very different as they were out of alignment. One that I had on loan sounded quite wrong actually!

Thanks for the info, much appreciated Ben.

I know that if the SMC 2b will be too wallowy for me (and it may well be), the CL 2a will be the next tube-tech I'll try. (Not to be confused with the LCA 2B... Why on earth do they have to have such confusing model names in their range?)

If I like the character of the SMC 2b, I'm kinda expecting to want to modify it. TBH, buying the mastering version is out of the question. It's 1500 bucks more expensive and I don't yet know if the unit will stay. Considering that, for now, I'd rather buy a cheap & cheerful second hand SMC 2b and modify it as needed - if I'm going to keep it.

PS:
Just saw that the stepped band gains on the mastering version are only in 1 dB steps... which imo is too coarse in a 3 band MB comp. Maybe severely reducing the range of the out pot is the better solution.
And it's the same for having 6 switchable frequencies for the crossover... With the pots, the range should allow for 11 well recallable positions without a problem. Seems to me like the mastering version is a bit of a compromise, tbh.
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #20
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Ben F's Avatar
 
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🎧 15 years
I've seen the mastering version go second hand for around $3500:

Tube-Tech SMC2BM

There is a lot being sold on Ebay at the moment as well. I think the best mods would be a 'bypass' on each band (the tech did this where I used to work), and a 'bypass' for the crossover circuit. Then effectively for a full range compressor you could 'bypass' 2 of the bands and the crossover.

The other mod would be dented gain knobs for more accurate control.
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #21
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phild's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Ben's posts are always informative & without that "know-it-all" vibe.

I have no experience with TubeTech other than that I use a couple of CL1B's... My approach to using them might be a bit different to others'...
They sit at the end of the path and are either in or out. No fancy settings.. I just leave them at the the most unobtrusive, do as little as possible settings. Then I run tones to make sure they have similar gain.
I like the sweet-haze they have. Not too little or to much of what I would want them to do. Glue is too radical a term. It's brought tubes back into my console for the first time in years. I haven't used my other compressors since.

The CL1A's were handwired and to my understanding the pots could be easily replaced for switches. The Newer CL1B's have the pots on a PCB and there's just not enough clearance to put switches in. About 18mm, I think? Don't let that scare you.

I'm sure one could install pots that had different or greater resolution for mastering purposes.

They respond well to different tubes and the unit is hard bypassed when out. I don't use S/C or MS for compression but that would be very easy to do on these.

See lower right picture for mine:
Lacquer Channel Mastering - Toronto Mastering Studios, Canada. Β» Phil Demetro’s Blog
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #22
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Waltz Mastering's Avatar
 
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Hi Robin,

I've been using the SMC 2B for a while and recommend it highly.
I know that sometimes multi-bands aren't to popular on this forum and get trashed a lot, but this unit is quite versatile and can really bring a lot to the table especially with the more punchy stuff. Used correctly, you can achieve a very solid and controlled low end and tame the mids and highs quite easily while still being aggressive.

If you were going to get one used I would first suggest re-tubing it and wait on the mods till you've used it for a bit. I have one CL 1B and will be getting another one soon but knowing their sound I think that even if you did get a crossover bypass mod that they are two very different animals.

If you did get the crossover bypass modded you would still have to somehow get the 3 individual pots for each of the threshold, attack, release, and make up gain controls linked I would think.

Unit to unit, the smc, like any tube piece can behave a little differently. The other multi bands in the same class that I am aware of are Maselec, Shadow Hills and Drawmer. But for me the SMC 2b is like a swiss army knife that I would never leave home without. Sometimes I follow it with a vari mu limiter and it really makes stuff jump without having an over compressed sound. Seeing that you already have some great full bands units that you work with, this would be a great addition.

TW
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #23
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
What about the ssl comps? Is anyone still using it for mastering?
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #24
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bcgood's Avatar
 
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🎧 15 years
I'm curious, why isn't anyone mentioning the DWF VT-7 as a favorite analog compressor? I personally love this compressor.
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #25
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24-96 Mastering's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering ➑️
Hi Robin,

I've been using the SMC 2B for a while and recommend it highly.
I know that sometimes multi-bands aren't to popular on this forum and get trashed a lot, but this unit is quite versatile and can really bring a lot to the table especially with the more punchy stuff. Used correctly, you can achieve a very solid and controlled low end and tame the mids and highs quite easily while still being aggressive.
Thanks,

I'm not a big fan of multiband, but it has its uses, and I suspect that an analog opto multiband will encourage a different use than using a digital multiband. So, it'll be interesting to explore that, but the starting point will be more of a "sound" thing rather than a "spectrum control" one. That said, I had someone prepare a sample for me to control some specific freq areas and that, as you write, worked quite nicely. So I'm sure I'll use it for that.

Quote:
If you were going to get one used I would first suggest re-tubing it and wait on the mods till you've used it for a bit. I have one CL 1B and will be getting another one soon but knowing their sound I think that even if you did get a crossover bypass mod that they are two very different animals.
I am curious about the CL1A/B / CL2A too, but I wouldn't expect a single-banded SMC to be similar to them, to be honest. In my mind, the CL1A/B / CL2A comps are much dryer, less wide, less "big", less smushy... if that word can be used. That's a complete auditorial guess though... as of now, I haven't used either and have only heard sound examples of the SMC.

Quote:
If you did get the crossover bypass modded you would still have to somehow get the 3 individual pots for each of the threshold, attack, release, and make up gain controls linked I would think.
Well, if it were possible to get the full range audio to one of the 3 bands compression stages, say the mid band, then I could just use that, mute the outputs of the other bands and that'd be that. At the moment, I have no idea how the unit works, so it remains to be seen whether thats possible. Might be insanely easy, might be impossible. Finding that out should be fun anyway.

Reason for me wanting such a mod:
1. I really like single band compression and if I can have one more flavour of single band comp in the rack without any additional rack space wasted, I'll take it.
2. If I want just the minimum flavour of the unit, it'd be nice to have a more minimal (if I dare use the word in that context) signal path available.

Quote:
Unit to unit, the smc, like any tube piece can behave a little differently. The other multi bands in the same class that I am aware of are Maselec, Shadow Hills and Drawmer. But for me the SMC 2b is like a swiss army knife that I would never leave home without. Sometimes I follow it with a vari mu limiter and it really makes stuff jump without having an over compressed sound. Seeing that you already have some great full bands units that you work with, this would be a great addition.
Thanks. It's great reading that... makes me excited. I'm very much looking forward to use it.
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #26
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leaper's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
My hardware compressors..

STC 8: Gets the most use, especially with side chain enabled. Excellent at subtle moulding and shaping the bass swing in certain types of music.
The only time it doesn't get a look in is with aggressive guitar stuff or noise.

Rohde & Schwarz U23: Unbeatable for powerful punch, thickness and attitude. If I didn't have them it would be a toss up between API 2500 and Chandler Zener.

SMC 2B: Used as a texture device. A little here and there if the source requires the Tube Tech smoothie effect.

Barth Dynaset: It's a toss up between this or NTP 179-170. I like the way these units allow you to fool around with transients and ambience. The NTP has more of a tone to it, the Barth slightly more transparent and trickier to get things sounding right. It perhaps doesn't get used as much as the above units, but provides something the others can't supply (especially useful as expander).

TFPRO P38: An interesting one. I've had it for a while now and am still finding out where it can be used. A lot of the time it has the job of policing the AD stage. If I'm wanting to run the tightrope of 0 dB/ controlled clipping, this box can really help things out transparently. Otherwise it can provide a unique colouration in "meek mode". But I usually prefer other options most of the time.

DBX Quantum: It might be just a question of familiarity, but this units' multi band comp is first port of call if anything more than general shaping is required. So far this seems to provide less unpleasant artifacts than the usual software suspects. I might be the only one who thinks this..definite case of YMMV.
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #27
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leaper's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering ➑️
I'm insanely curious about the Vertigo. They offered to send it over for a test drive, but at the (imo) hefty price of 3800 Euro (net), I'd very much hope to not like it. So I guess I shouldn't try it in the first place.
I did take it on a test drive and while impressed with it's capabilities as a mix bus comp (Andy's initial concept of how to use the unit), have to say that it didn't do it for me as a mastering comp. The high end glow/sparkle I was getting was great for some things but is intrinsic to the device.
Perhaps it was a question of timing... having enough things with that kind of colour... perhaps 2 weeks wasn't long enough to understand it (God knows.. the STC 8 took me much longer to get to grips with!)

Anyway.. passed on the vertigo.

(Robin.. sent you an e mailheh)
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #28
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24-96 Mastering's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaper ➑️
I did take it on a test drive and while impressed with it's capabilities as a mix bus comp (Andy's initial concept of how to use the unit), have to say that it didn't do it for me as a mastering comp. The high end glow/sparkle I was getting was great for some things but is intrinsic to the device.
Perhaps it was a question of timing... having enough things with that kind of colour... perhaps 2 weeks wasn't long enough to understand it (God knows.. the STC 8 took me much longer to get to grips with!)

Anyway.. passed on the vertigo.
So it's always sparkly, even if you don't want it to be? Sounds a bit like the Avalon 2055


Quote:
Originally Posted by leaper ➑️
(Robin.. sent you an e mailheh)
Working on it
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #29
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leaper's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joemamma ➑️
What about the ssl comps? Is anyone still using it for mastering?
I guess some people will use them. The one I know well is FXG384 and have indeed attempted to master with it.
Personal findings: While it's a relatively easy thing to mix into (so.. using as mix bus comp), mastering proves trickier.
There is a kind of input/threshold point where you can get a mix bouncing in a beautiful way. Go too far and it sounds squashed, not enough input and it doesn't bounce. So the trick is to find this fine line where the SSL works to bring out a mix. While this line is relatively easy to find in mixing, it's not so easy while mastering. Too easy to land either side during a song (at least, for me)
So to get the well known SSL effect.. maybe best on mixdown?
However, that doesn't yet preclude an SSL in mastering. It's just that you have to approach it from a different angle. If used subtly while mastering it can add a unifying element to a mix .. but there again, so can many other things and we all just have to examine a prospective piece in relationship to what we already own and what new things it can bring us.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #30
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jayfrigo's Avatar
 
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🎧 15 years
On my radar:

Manley Vari-Mu

API 2500

Pendulum OCL-2

Cranesong STC-8


The first two above are in my rack full time. The other two I have used a lot and would not mind having around as additional options (were I a wealthy man!).

The SSL stuff I don't really bother with in mastering because so much stuff comes in that has already been mixed through them. Double-dipping on SSL comp is not terribly flattering.

Two on my list to try are the Requisite and the Elysia.

There are a few other special case boxes that can be interesting and are worthwhile, but this thread is more about go-to boxes than occasional creative pieces. There are obviously also a few utilitarian boxes also not on my list that are perfectly acceptable, but don't really endear themselves enough to have become personal favorites.
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