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FLAC is our current best hope for the future of fidelity
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #31
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob katz ➑️
Actually, FLAC is a great format, the only obstacle to it is that Apple is not playing nice, they don't support it because they have a competing lossless format for Itunes.

BK
True, but there is simple free solution for importing and playing FLAC files in iTunes:

Fluke: iFLAC your Mac
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #32
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bcgood's Avatar
 
Verified Member
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman ➑️
ooh - which one? I LOVE the Simon Rattle one currently doing the rounds.... awesome sound.
This one, sounds awesome!

Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #33
Mastering
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by glassmaster ➑️
True, but there is simple free solution for importing and playing FLAC files in iTunes:

Fluke: iFLAC your Mac

Thanks, Dave, for that info. I didn't know about IFLAC.

BOB
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #34
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jinksdingo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I didn't know either. Good to know. There is hope! iFLAC is here!
Anyway fellas enough arguing about why consumers don't really care or other reason it is'nt viable.
The real why is the format is unknown to most.
Do your part and inform your clients, Gee, even your family members. It'll soon become a grass roots thing!

The question is; Would you like your mixes rendered to 16 bit or left at 24 bit? Okay well that'll be $$$ for both!
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #35
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JustinAiken's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by glassmaster ➑️
But that still doesn't let you transfer them to your iPod. And it's a clunky workaround... interesting though.

Does it actually add the FLAC files to the library, so you can search them?
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #36
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinAiken ➑️
But that still doesn't let you transfer them to your iPod. And it's a clunky workaround... interesting though.

Does it actually add the FLAC files to the library, so you can search them?
That's really been my biggest problem as well. I guess all these years of archiving albums into FLAC format won't be wasted now that there are more programs coming into fruition for it, but it is frustrating when the most popular, best supported portable music device doesn't support it.

I wish there was a way to get FLAC onto your iPod, until then, it's Apple's lossless format.
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #37
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MAzevedo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
You can replace the firmware on your iPod with Rockbox and play FLAC, OGG, and a bunch of other things:

Rockbox - Open Source Jukebox Firmware

Doesn't work for the Touch or iPhone, however, but does the job very well for most other iPods.
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #38
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by arf ➑️
Just downloaded a Reference Recordings (K.O. Johnson) 96/24 classical album from HDTracks in 10 minutes, decoded it with FLAC in less than 5. Sound is as good as it gets, no fuss no muss, no sticky anti-shoplifting tape to claw off, no plastic. I agree it is the way to go.
Unfortunately I think it's 10 times too long for most of customers.....
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #39
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JustinAiken's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAzevedo ➑️
You can replace the firmware on your iPod with Rockbox and play FLAC, OGG, and a bunch of other things:

Rockbox - Open Source Jukebox Firmware

Doesn't work for the Touch or iPhone, however, but does the job very well for most other iPods.
I've put rockbox on an iPod classic before, and although it was cool, it didn't work with the iPod connector in our car or on our Bose (don't laugh! It was really cheap) Sounddock, so rockbox had to go.

Until there's a good solution for FLAC on iPod... thank goodness for dbpoweramp converter!
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #40
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
afaik iFLAC doesnt actually play the flac files in iTunes, it just converts them and then imports the converted file to your library..

i used to use rockbox on my old ipod for flacs, but since i switched to a touch i dont really have enough space for lossless anyway. using cheap in ear headphones probably counteracts any benefit you might get from lossless anyway.

i do keep all my CDs on my computer though and for that flacs are very useful, just a shame that itunes won't play them.

songbird is a fairly good replacement though.

there are instructions to send a request apple to add flac support to itunes on the flac homepage somewhere... do it!
Old 27th June 2009 | Show parent
  #41
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JustinAiken's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bflat ➑️
Just a warning: When doing an AB tests with my Shure SE530s, Apple lossless format lost quality over FLAC! I used Coldplay's X&Y with a FLAC conversion and an ALAC, and I was deeply dissapointed with ALAC! I have an iTouch and REALLY wanted a pristine conversion!!! Oh well.
Really? What converter did you use? I've checked for phase nulling after converting with dbpoweramp and the results were identical!
Old 27th June 2009 | Show parent
  #42
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Jesse Graffam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axon ➑️
Bandwidth and disk space cost money.
Just so you know.... you can get 2 TB drives for about $150 USD in 50-packs right now. Also... you can get 2 Gb/s unmetered dedicated boxes for like $100 USD a month too. And bandwidth can get a lot cheaper than that if you're using more.

If not having FLAC is an excuse that a business wouldn't make decent money selling them because of disk or bandwidth concerns, then they probably aren't making money anyways and should not be in business.


panda's mention of SongBird = win. imho it's the only thing out there that people who care about audio quality (who only use OSX) should be looking at, which is unfortunate.
Songbird - Open Source Music Player
Old 27th June 2009 | Show parent
  #43
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Table Of Tone's Avatar
 
Verified Member
8 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Drives are getting so big these days that there will pretty much be no need to compress down from PCM, in the near future!
Old 27th June 2009 | Show parent
  #44
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Verified Member
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bflat ➑️
Just a warning: When doing an AB tests with my Shure SE530s, Apple lossless format lost quality over FLAC! I used Coldplay's X&Y with a FLAC conversion and an ALAC, and I was deeply dissapointed with ALAC! I have an iTouch and REALLY wanted a pristine conversion!!! Oh well.

If your are looking to play FLAC on a mac, Cog works well for me. There is also Fluke, which allows FLACs to play in iTunes, thoug I'm not sure if it becomes something else.

Disclaimer: I didn't read the entire thread, so I apologize if some of this is a repeat...
If two lossless encoders give different results when they are decoded, one of them is broken.
Old 27th June 2009 | Show parent
  #45
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Geert van den Berg's Avatar
 
Verified Member
🎧 15 years
You can play FLAC files on the Mac with VLC player. Maybe not such a nice interface as iTunes, but it does work.

Offcourse this is not a solution for listening FLAC on the iPod. I don't know about you, but when I use my ipod I am nearly always in a 'noisy' enviroment, for example at the train station and even when there's no noise, there usually still is wind noise, so I don't see any advantage in having my library in a better format than AAC, because I can't hear it.

But I'd would like music to be sold in higher resolutions or at least at CD quality, so that I decide for myself which format I convert it into.
Old 27th June 2009 | Show parent
  #46
Mastering
 
🎧 15 years
[QUOTE=uncajesse;4323835]Just so you know.... you can get 2 TB drives for about $150 USD in 50-packs right now. Also... you can get 2 Gb/s unmetered dedicated boxes for like $100 USD a month too. And bandwidth can get a lot cheaper than that if you're using more.

Tell me about this 2 Gb/s service, please :-). The price cannot be possible!
Old 28th June 2009 | Show parent
  #47
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
I am old analog guy and for whatever reason raw cds sound better than apple lossless played through iTunes. Why?

My living room system is KEF reference speakers and NAD power amplifiers. Not exactly top end, but not bad either. Is it just me, or something else at work?
Old 28th June 2009 | Show parent
  #48
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Cellotron's Avatar
 
Verified Member
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil456 ➑️
I am old analog guy and for whatever reason raw cds sound better than apple lossless played through iTunes. Why?

My living room system is KEF reference speakers and NAD power amplifiers. Not exactly top end, but not bad either. Is it just me, or something else at work?
Does your computer use a different DAC than your CD player for your reference system?
If they use different DAC's rather than using the same one shared via digital router (which is what I do for my studio) this could make a huge difference in the end result.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Old 28th June 2009 | Show parent
  #49
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinAiken ➑️
Really? What converter did you use? I've checked for phase nulling after converting with dbpoweramp and the results were identical!

I'm pretty sure I used a program called Max (its been a few months now since I did this). Both files came out to be essentially the same size, so I figured I had to be wrong. I then did a pseudo blind test (shuffle play) of the two formats with three different songs off the CD and I could identify the difference between each without looking. It wasn't a big difference at all, but it seemed that a little bit was missing off the top. Example: I could hear the body of the piano on Fix You in FLAC, but not in AAC, and the vocals were smoothed out in AAC. Still, I could ONLY hear the difference in my Shure SE530s, not in my (ho hum) Event Asp6 monitors, or in my Sony mdr5709 headphones.

Man, I love those 530s!
Old 28th June 2009 | Show parent
  #50
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil456 ➑️
I am old analog guy and for whatever reason raw cds sound better than apple lossless played through iTunes. Why?

My living room system is KEF reference speakers and NAD power amplifiers. Not exactly top end, but not bad either. Is it just me, or something else at work?

That was my experience too.
Old 28th June 2009 | Show parent
  #51
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bflat ➑️
I could hear the body of the piano on Fix You in FLAC, but not in AAC, and the vocals were smoothed out in AAC.
Just to make sure, are you talking about Apple's AAC (=lossy, not lossless) or ALAC (=lossless)?
Lossless formats "should" all sound identical.
Old 28th June 2009 | Show parent
  #52
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Teddy Ray's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
been using flac for 3 years now..I agree that it will be a key player in the future of bought/sold music.

Samplitude has supported Flac import/export for going on a year now/
Old 28th June 2009 | Show parent
  #53
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees de Visser ➑️
Just to make sure, are you talking about Apple's AAC (=lossy, not lossless) or ALAC (=lossless)?
Lossless formats "should" all sound identical.

I must admit I did this comparison months ago and now that I've been pushed to verify I can't find the files or the software I used to convert them, so I have no way of knowing if I made this mistake. Until I can redo my experiment (my SE530s are being fixed by Shure right now) consider my glass house shattered.

Well played Kees de Visser, 'till we meet again!

Old 28th June 2009 | Show parent
  #54
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Jesse Graffam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I've seen a few place from France doing that, and a couple from the UK. I'm not sure on the quality of the bandwidth, but a friend of mine has the 100 Mb/s service through a French company for 20 EU a month, and I'll ask him how it's been. I know they are using it for a few relays on their net-radio station, so it's getting tested from around the world no doubt.

I'll be online later to link stuff...

Btw... when i worked at radioio we got bandwidth cheaper than that, cos we were using more like 10-15 Gb/s and buying in bulk
Old 28th June 2009 | Show parent
  #55
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cellotron ➑️
Does your computer use a different DAC than your CD player for your reference system?
If they use different DAC's rather than using the same one shared via digital router (which is what I do for my studio) this could make a huge difference in the end result.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Same DAC with S/PDIF interface. Everything from the DAC on is the same.
Old 30th June 2009 | Show parent
  #56
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
NOTE TO MUSIC INDUSTRY : MAKE 320KBPS MP3 FILES THE *ONLY* MP3 STANDARD !!! --- NOTE TO MP3 PLAYER MANUFACTURERS : PROVIDE A 5 TO 7 BAND *MANUAL* EQ AND FORGET ABOUT THOSE STUPID PRESETS !!! --- NOTE TO MUSIC INDUSTRY : MAKE UNCOMPRESSED PULSE CODE MODULATION THE ULTIMATE, HUMANITARIAN SONIC GOAL. !!! --- (note to self : stop screaming and stop dreaming)
Old 1st July 2009 | Show parent
  #57
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Jesse Graffam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
NOTE TO HAPPY_MUSICFAN: JUST BECAUSE A LAYER-3 ENCODING IS AT 320 KBPS DOESN'T MEAN IT DOESN'T SUCK.

All all-caps aside... the very last song I mastered just last night... i noted to the client that I could probably easily ABX it against the FLAC that I sent him too. This was with Lame 3.98.2 with "-b 320 -q 0 --lowpass 22.05" and both were ReplayGained with the same amount of reduction, so the layer-3 clipping on decode wasn't a problem. It was the time-stretched (faster) tambourines that stuck out to me most.

That's pretty much the opposite of fidelity. And not to mention it ignores all of the other points that were made in the OP. None the least that FLAC is license and patent free.

DOWN WITH LAYER-3!!!
Old 5th July 2009 | Show parent
  #58
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
The MP3 player experience is certainly not ideal, only merely functional - kind of like when you just have to hear something, regardless of the sonic standard. It's fast food for the ears : those ears are hungry, but the discerning mind inevitably wants the hi-fidelity experience. ---Most MP3 players say they play .wav files... but that's a stretch. ---But there's just gotta be an MP3 player in the future that can play the larger .wav files, and provide us with a manual 5 to 7 band eq. But what would they call such a gadget ..... a Wave Player ?
Old 6th July 2009 | Show parent
  #59
Lives for gear
 
Jesse Graffam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
They might call it RockBox.
Rockbox - Open Source Jukebox Firmware
Old 8th July 2009 | Show parent
  #60
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Maybe future MP3 players will be upgradeable to portable wav players via firmware updates... looks like a potential market to me.
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