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M/S Hardware Box other then Dangerous?
Old 3rd March 2009 | Show parent
  #31
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Adam Dempsey's Avatar
 
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben F ➡️
On top of this, an M/S 'spreader' circuit. This differs from just boosting or cutting the side level for more 'width', as this method affects the mono signal as well.
Should it, though? I've used a custom analogue spreader that doesn't touch the mono signal at all. (selectable degree of L ch polarity inverted > R ch, plus R ch polarity inverted > L ch).
Old 3rd March 2009 | Show parent
  #32
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🎧 10 years
for general info the dangerous box is certainly transformerless very very minimal circuitry ( chips ) - i have opened one up for a looksee
i will see if i can find the photos , but might check with dangerous about posting them first ( which is the right thing to do )

we have an over engineered , over built , over achieving ms matrix here made by parkside sound based on the same ideas behind the tg console but more refined and elegant lots of tranformers high voltage class A ciruits and stepped attns .

we also have two bendini boxes, plus the weiss digital ms stuff and the z system k sound thing is in transit which i am keen to run in

back to the thread though i think the dangerous ms box is excellent value for money, and cannot see why you would look elsewhere unless you were looking to work some of your own theories.
Old 3rd March 2009 | Show parent
  #33
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Ben F's Avatar
 
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomshanka ➡️
Should it, though? I've used a custom analogue spreader that doesn't touch the mono signal at all. (selectable degree of L ch polarity inverted > R ch, plus R ch polarity inverted > L ch).
That's what I was saying....custom M/S spreaders ensure the spread is phase coherent. That's also why having the least amount of M/S processing equipment in the chain is important- hence only 1 M/S insert on the dangerous box.
Old 3rd March 2009 | Show parent
  #34
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
The Waves Center plugin is really amazing! I recently used it on a mastering session and what I loved about it was that I automated M/S, center punch and more throughout the song.

It sounds awesome and allows more creativity during the mastering process.

I know you may be looking for a hardware M/S, but this is a great alternative.

I use the Dangerous gear - ST Monitor and 2Bus, so I know how awesome their stuff sounds---but using this plugin is a huge time saver, and such a stress reliever. M/S processing in the box with the Waves Center plugin is easy and sounds great.
Old 3rd March 2009 | Show parent
  #35
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Since digital came up, Massey's free plug-in bundle does a great job of M/S.

smassey.com
Old 4th March 2009 | Show parent
  #36
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wado1942's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
If you have ballanced outputs on your DAC or whatever device you want to feed the M-S matrix, 4x high precision matched resistors (I prefer .1%) in a $20 metal box is all it takes. You'll loose 6dB upon the output and will have to feed the next device with unballanced cables. It's pretty transparent and cheap though.
Old 30th March 2009 | Show parent
  #37
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Guys -

I wanted to provide a couple of relevant links to the analog MS encoder-decoder over at the Pico Compressor Forum.

The block diagram for simultaneous encode/decode is here:

Pico Compressor Audio Design Forum • View topic - Mid Side M-S Matrix Uses No Precision Resistors

Here are the performance measurements of the prototype:

Pico Compressor Audio Design Forum • View topic - Mid Side M-S Matrix Uses No Precision Resistors

There was an earlier post to the Pico Compressor thread here which showed a variable gain stage for level trims. That particular image was lifted from a DC-coupled mic preamp I'm working on and contained a lot of circuitry not related to M/S. I didn't want readers here to be confused by the extra stuff.

For the curious, the DC-coupled preamp (active, no input caps) is here:

Pico Compressor Audio Design Forum • View topic - A Direct-Coupled Input-Capacitorless Active Mic Preamp

Also posted are a width control (based on Chin's work) and a matrix-based panner.

Best;

Wayne
Old 2nd April 2009 | Show parent
  #38
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Here's an update on the latest prototype board spin, MS155.

Pico Compressor Audio Design Forum • View topic - Mid Side M-S Matrix Uses No Precision Resistors
Old 10th May 2009 | Show parent
  #39
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
I just posted the schematic of the MS Encoder/Decoder over at the Pico Compressor Forum. Here's a copy. The diode bridges on the output are optional phantom power protection. The NE5532 can be virtually any low noise op amp of the same footprint. I would recommend not using a bifet of the TL072-class however.

The full thread is here: Pico Compressor Audio Design Forum • View topic - Mid Side M-S Matrix Uses No Precision Resistors - Boards 5/1



Large format file: http://www.ka-electronics.com/Images...atic_Large.JPG

Last edited by mediatechnology; 24th May 2009 at 04:18 AM.. Reason: Fixed broken link
Old 26th April 2011 | Show parent
  #40
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🎧 15 years
can anyone explain to me what the use is for such a box,i saw this thread on this forum

passive mastering console with PICS

and it looks really interesting
Old 27th April 2011 | Show parent
  #41
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da goose's Avatar
 
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9 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by S-N-S ➡️
can anyone explain to me what the use is for such a box,i saw this thread on this forum

passive mastering console with PICS

and it looks really interesting
That looks familiar heh

What's the use? Use it for MS EQíng in the analog domain.
I must admit that i can also use it for MS compression if i want to but never actually used that so far. MS eq is pretty much standard though, i love it for the control and sound and when cutting the low-end on the S channel you get a much tighter bass. Adding some high to the side band can sometimes brighten up the sound and widen it a bit without making it to wide and unnatural.
To be honest, i can't live without it right now and having the option that all my analog gear can run in stereo and MS mode at the push of a button.
Old 27th April 2011 | Show parent
  #42
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by da goose ➡️
That looks familiar heh

What's the use? Use it for MS EQíng in the analog domain.
I must admit that i can also use it for MS compression if i want to but never actually used that so far. MS eq is pretty much standard though, i love it for the control and sound and when cutting the low-end on the S channel you get a much tighter bass. Adding some high to the side band can sometimes brighten up the sound and widen it a bit without making it to wide and unnatural.
To be honest, i can't live without it right now and having the option that all my analog gear can run in stereo and MS mode at the push of a button.

ahh so it was yours
would you mind sharing what the total cost for building one of those was??
im looking at incorporating some hardware comps and eqs in my set up,maybe i would benefit from trying to build one of those
Old 27th April 2011 | Show parent
  #43
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da goose's Avatar
 
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9 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by S-N-S ➡️
ahh so it was yours
would you mind sharing what the total cost for building one of those was??
im looking at incorporating some hardware comps and eqs in my set up,maybe i would benefit from trying to build one of those
yes, it is.
The price? in parts? maybe 200/300 euro's, in time? a lot.. it's all done by hand.
Old 27th April 2011 | Show parent
  #44
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by da goose ➡️
yes, it is.
The price? in parts? maybe 200/300 euro's, in time? a lot.. it's all done by hand.
thanks that was actually not that much,maybe i should consider building one
Old 29th April 2011 | Show parent
  #45
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
every time i try changing level with M/S in anything digital i remember why i don't do it. it just doesn't sound nearly as good.

eqing with a digital M/S matrix sounds ok but once you change any level it doesn't.
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