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Quantum Leap! WaveLab Pro 10 & MacMini M1 Big Sur
Old 16th July 2021
  #1
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Jerry Tubb's Avatar
 
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Quantum Leap! WaveLab Pro 10 & MacMini M1 Big Sur

Well.... I finally made the Quantum Leap, Schwiiing!

Bought a new MacMini M1 w Big Sur OS 11

WaveLab Pro 10,

somehow managed to get it all installed, authorized & running,

and Mastered my first Test Track Today, BOOM!

it wasn't easy to configure, but I got it done.

Old Dog... New Tricks <(:~o}>~

Cheers, JT
Attached Thumbnails
Quantum Leap! WaveLab Pro 10 &amp; MacMini M1 Big Sur-wavelab10-jt.jpg  
Old 17th July 2021
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Tubb ➡️
Well.... I finally made the Quantum Leap, Schwiiing!

Bought a new MacMini M1 w Big Sur OS 11

WaveLab Pro 10,

somehow managed to get it all installed, authorized & running,

and Mastered my first Test Track Today, BOOM!

it wasn't easy to configure, but I got it done.

Old Dog... New Tricks <(:~o}>~

Cheers, JT
Congratulations, Jerry!! Very happy for you. I hope you enjoy Wavelab, and that it treats you well. Lots of great stuff in it.

-mike
Old 17th July 2021
  #3
Gear Head
 
nick b's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Tubb ➡️
Well.... I finally made the Quantum Leap, Schwiiing!

Bought a new MacMini M1 w Big Sur OS 11

WaveLab Pro 10,

somehow managed to get it all installed, authorized & running,

and Mastered my first Test Track Today, BOOM!

it wasn't easy to configure, but I got it done.

Old Dog... New Tricks <(:~o}>~

Cheers, JT
Awesome! Wavelab is incredible.

Check out the wavelab youtube channel for a lot of really helpful resources. And the wavelab users Facebook group for asking questions and news.
Old 18th July 2021
  #4
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Yeah Big Sur OS 11.4 has got almost everyone flummoxed right now, including Lynx audio drivers!

The Security & Privacy settings are so rigid and strict, wouldn’t let the new Lynx driver 59a load, even on repeated attempts.

But the MOTU 8D driver worked, after allowing the driver to load via security prefs.

i think OS 11.2.2 might be AOK as of now.

WaveLab Pro 10 is running under Rosetta 2 iirc, & single core.

Bug Sur M1 MacMini’s have been out since November 2020...

But i assume DAW authors are having to rewrite code.

Did my second test session today w WL10, I’m like Ned in the first reader!

after configuration Audio Connections again...

i learned basic editing; cut, copy, paste, and learned to fade in & out!

LoL

Cheers, JT

p.s. the new GUI is awesome though, very logical layout, albeit a plethora of tiny font menus!

Last edited by Jerry Tubb; 18th July 2021 at 10:42 AM..
Old 18th July 2021 | Show parent
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Hi Jerry,

Is this all ITB, or with an analogue chain? If the latter, how is the chain fed from the Mini?

I ask because your setup is a possible future expansion or B rig here.
Old 18th July 2021
  #6
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Nice one Jerry - seems like the right moment finally came

Are you pitching/catching on the one box btw?

Interesting about the Lynx drivers... could this be done via the cli maybe?
Old 18th July 2021 | Show parent
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surbitone ➡️
Nice one Jerry - seems like the right moment finally came
Are you pitching/catching on the one box btw?
Interesting about the Lynx drivers... could this be done via the cli maybe?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowland ➡️
Hi Jerry,
Is this all ITB, or with an analogue chain? If the latter, how is the chain fed from the Mini?
I ask because your setup is a possible future expansion or B rig here.
Hey Guys, thanks for asking, it’s a big paradigm shift for me.
So I’m treading carefully now, step by step, might’ve made the leap a couple years ago with WaveLab 9 Mac,
But the past 2 years have been filled with so many crazy changes, i wanted to keep my catching DAW rig the same as it’s been for sanity.

Yes, the moment arrived, my old Mac Pro Tower 2006 Intel finally died! That i used to catch w Sonic soundBlade for 15 years.
So I had reinvent my mastering workflow, right in the middle of busy season, motherboard gave out.

I’m still doing the dual DAW approach, pitchingwith Pro Tools on a MacBook Pro 2015 on Sierra 10.12, via Sonnet TB2 box with Lynx AES-16 card, to my analog EQ path:

Lavry DAC, NSEQ-FF, Sontec 432, Manley VMu, RND MBP, RND MBC ADC,
(which sounds incredibly good)

and catching with the Mac Mini M1 w WaveLab 10 in trial learning curve mode,
but in reality, for actual client mastering work, using a 2014 Mac Mini with soundBlade & Sonoris DDP Creator via another Lynx Card & Sonnet Express box.

I love the power & flexibility of the dual DAW scenario, pitch & catch.

But never say never.

I’m taking the 1% per day, over 100 days learning curve approach with WaveLab 10.
The new GUI is laid out very well, it’s just a matter of translating my mastering concept from many years of using PT & sB, and applying it to WaveLab. It will probably click for me after 21 days of trial use, that cybernetic learning curve.
So later this autumn I plan to be up to full speed with it.
and be able to work ITB with it (if needed)

But for the moment, it’s a bit overwhelming, looking at a screen with a zillion tiny font parameters to explore, hence the 1% per day approach.

I don’t mind discussing my learning curve publicly, my clients don’t care what i use, as long as it sounds good, & is consistent with they’re accustomed to hearing, and meeting deadlines without errors.

I expect WaveLab 10 will accelerate my workflow at some point, they seem to have thought of everything in terms of formatting and delivery.

I do like to learn everything myself, stubborn i guess, navigate my own workflow, adapting WL10 to my tried & true mastering approach.
But at some point I’ll likely watch Justin’s videos & read his pdf’s to see if i missed anything!

Although I love the power & speed of the new 8-core Mac mini M1 w Big Sur,
it IS running on Rosetta 2, and single-core for now.
Rumor is that WL-11 will go multi-core and speed things up considerably, especially wrt plug-ins.

As to the Lynx driver (59) not loading, it could be that it might’ve worked on OS 11.2.2, but I made the mistake of updating to OS 11.4 just before attempting to install it, Doh!

Lynx driver download site has a very specific stepped procedure for working thru Apple’s rigid Security & Privacy barrier, but it didn’t work for me, and i tried 5-6 times till frustration shut my brain down.

https://support.lynxstudio.com/hc/en...ver-on-Big-Sur

Then i decided to try the MOTU 8D box instead as an AES to USB converter box, and it’s driver installed easily and worked the first time!

I do think the Lynx AES-16e card with the Sonnet box sounds marginally better though, avoiding USB audio, unless it’s just expectation bias on my part.

As a stop gap measure, I’m also considering getting a fast Mac Mini 2018, loaded w 64GB memory, and running it on OS Mojave, which should allow the Lynx driver (58) to load properly, and let WL10 fly along natively....

Sorry for the long post, just thinking out loud.

Cheers, JT

Last edited by Jerry Tubb; 18th July 2021 at 12:03 PM..
Old 18th July 2021
  #8
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Surbitone's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Gotcha... well you must be super stoked!

Almost got one of the new M1s.... but after realising I’d have to drop some tools, went for a Windows AMD box. in the end. Bit of a shame, but it should last for 10 years +

Btw... after watching your MBP videos + using that Acustica Snow for a couple of weeks... I buckled and got the MBP. Can’t see me getting rid of it... ever.
Old 18th July 2021 | Show parent
  #9
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lowland's Avatar
 
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Thanks Jerry!
Old 18th July 2021
  #10
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I've got a website here with a bunch of WaveLab resources:
https://www.wavelabhelp.com

A few years ago I had plans to do a nicely scripted and edited WaveLab tutorial series but I quickly learned that I just don't have the time to do it, so the monthly livestreams work well because then I'm not tempted to go down the editing rabbit hole.

It just seems that every WaveLab video series I've seen is just somebody reciting the manual in video form and isn't from somebody that actually uses the software daily.

One of the best things about WaveLab is that if you go to the official WaveLab forum, you can ask questions, report issues, or request features directly to the WaveLab developer:
https://forums.steinberg.net/tags/c/wavelab/wavelab-10

It doesn't really get any better than that. The Steinberg support portal is fine if you are have admin issues with your account/purchases but for any actual issues, the WaveLab forum where PG will answer you is priceless.

WaveLab 10 had some big audio engine changes that make it very easy to pitch and catch in the same Audio Montage, and using the same audio interface.

I'm super partial to the RME AES card and it is super stable in general, and with WaveLab.
Old 19th July 2021 | Show parent
  #11
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Jerry Tubb's Avatar
 
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Perkins ➡️
I've got a website here with a bunch of WaveLab resources:
https://www.wavelabhelp.com

A few years ago I had plans to do a nicely scripted and edited WaveLab tutorial series but I quickly learned that I just don't have the time to do it, so the monthly livestreams work well because then I'm not tempted to go down the editing rabbit hole.

It just seems that every WaveLab video series I've seen is just somebody reciting the manual in video form and isn't from somebody that actually uses the software daily.

One of the best things about WaveLab is that if you go to the official WaveLab forum, you can ask questions, report issues, or request features directly to the WaveLab developer:
https://forums.steinberg.net/tags/c/wavelab/wavelab-10

It doesn't really get any better than that. The Steinberg support portal is fine if you are have admin issues with your account/purchases but for any actual issues, the WaveLab forum where PG will answer you is priceless.

WaveLab 10 had some big audio engine changes that make it very easy to pitch and catch in the same Audio Montage, and using the same audio interface.

I'm super partial to the RME AES card and it is super stable in general, and with WaveLab.
Thanks Justin, great resources you’ve provided for everyone online.

My recent experience w Lynx did prompt me to look at the RME cards.

Still processing the options.

Cheers, JT
Old 19th July 2021 | Show parent
  #12
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lowland's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Tubb ➡️
Thanks Justin, great resources you’ve provided for everyone online.

My recent experience w Lynx did prompt me to look at the RME cards.

Still processing the options.

Cheers, JT
+1 for RME: here since October 20, very happy.

The Marian Seraph D cards also appeal as a cost-effective alternative if I go for a second workstation.

https://www.marian.de/en/products
Old 19th July 2021
  #13
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+2 for RME. I've heard mixed things about those Marian cards but never used them personally. Don't think I could go back from RME at this point
Old 19th July 2021 | Show parent
  #14
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lowland's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surbitone ➡️
+2 for RME. I've heard mixed things about those Marian cards but never used them personally. Don't think I could go back from RME at this point
What was the downside of the Marian cards that you heard? I've personally seen only good reports, but there don't seem to be many pros using them, so a small sample only.
Old 19th July 2021
  #15
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A friend of mine had one of the cards and was getting random dropouts... not sure which card it was though, or if it was the analogue or digital io. I believe he ended up switching to Lynx cards in the end. Unfortunately, it's anecdotal and only a sample of 1 user.. so yeah, doesn't help the sample size too much
Old 19th July 2021 | Show parent
  #16
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lowland's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surbitone ➡️
A friend of mine had one of the cards and was getting random dropouts... not sure which card it was though, or if it was the analogue or digital io. I believe he ended up switching to Lynx cards in the end. Unfortunately, it's anecdotal and only a sample of 1 user.. so yeah, doesn't help the sample size too much
Useful to know though - thanks.

The main (only?) reason I can see for using a Marian card over an RME is cost - I'll see what's in the budget at the time, and go from there.
Old 21st July 2021
  #17
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WooHoo! did my first Wavelab 10 Montage today, as part of the learning curve.

Took me 30 minutes, I could’ve done it in 30 seconds with soundBlade!

The hardest part was dropping in markers

So many Options with WaveLab Pro 10, too many really, they could prioritize the GUI, put the most practical & often used features on top layer.

But the key commands supersede all that, and speed up the workflow.

Only my 3rd day of spending one hour with it, beginning to Grock it

I did hear back from Lynx Audio tech support today, twice actually very helpful.

Onward and upward, I may master a couple singles with it Wednesday

cheers, JT

p.s. wonder if WaveLab Elements has fewer options?
Attached Thumbnails
Quantum Leap! WaveLab Pro 10 &amp; MacMini M1 Big Sur-4aef9214-21ca-4ce2-be82-a9ee7c04e31b.jpg  
Old 21st July 2021
  #18
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WaveLab Elements is too limited for professional work in my opinion, especially if you're mastering EPs and albums. The biggest reason being that CD track lengths are defined by the clip lengths which doesn't really fly. I'd rather use HOFA CD-Burn.DDP.Master Pro than WaveLab Elements.

WaveLab Pro does have a lot of features and it does take time to find your preferred workflow and tune out what you don't need.

Creating markers is super simple though with the CD Wizard. First, arrange all the songs/clips how you want them to flow in the montage.

Then run the CD Wizard with the right settings (see attached) and in 1 second you'll have a CD Track Splice Marker for each song, and a CD Track Start Marker for the very song and a CD Track End Marker at the end of the last song which is required for a valid CD/DDP. The rest can be CD Track Splice Markers placed where you want it to change from one song/track to the next.

The markers are also automatically bound to each clip so if you move the song/clip later, the markers move with them.

The markers are also automatically named based on the file/clip names so if your source files are accurately named to start when, you're just two clicks away from having accurate CD-Text and metadata song titles too.

Once you get the hang of it, you can import songs, arrange them, and have the markers inserted in a minute.

You can even use the "Move Multiple Markers" option to offset the markers back by any given amount of time (-200ms for example) so the markers aren't too close to the first downbeat or note.

This video isn't short, and it's not as refined as I'd like because it's a livestream but watching it might save you some time in the near-term and longterm:

https://www.wavelabhelp.com/videos/w...audio-montage/
Attached Thumbnails
Quantum Leap! WaveLab Pro 10 &amp; MacMini M1 Big Sur-screen-shot-2021-07-20-9.02.01-pm.jpg  
Old 21st July 2021 | Show parent
  #19
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Tubb ➡️
WooHoo! did my first Wavelab 10 Montage today, as part of the learning curve.

Took me 30 minutes, I could’ve done it in 30 seconds with soundBlade!

The hardest part was dropping in markers
Well, give it another week and it’ll be second nature, no doubt..

Wavelab 10 looks super-nice btw...
Old 21st July 2021 | Show parent
  #20
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Jerry Tubb's Avatar
 
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Perkins ➡️
WaveLab Elements is too limited for professional work in my opinion, especially if you're mastering EPs and albums. The biggest reason being that CD track lengths are defined by the clip lengths which doesn't really fly. I'd rather use HOFA CD-Burn.DDP.Master Pro than WaveLab Elements.

WaveLab Pro does have a lot of features and it does take time to find your preferred workflow and tune out what you don't need.

Creating markers is super simple though with the CD Wizard. First, arrange all the songs/clips how you want them to flow in the montage.

Then run the CD Wizard with the right settings (see attached) and in 1 second you'll have a CD Track Splice Marker for each song, and a CD Track Start Marker for the very song and a CD Track End Marker at the end of the last song which is required for a valid CD/DDP. The rest can be CD Track Splice Markers placed where you want it to change from one song/track to the next.

The markers are also automatically bound to each clip so if you move the song/clip later, the markers move with them.

The markers are also automatically named based on the file/clip names so if your source files are accurately named to start when, you're just two clicks away from having accurate CD-Text and metadata song titles too.

Once you get the hang of it, you can import songs, arrange them, and have the markers inserted in a minute.

You can even use the "Move Multiple Markers" option to offset the markers back by any given amount of time (-200ms for example) so the markers aren't too close to the first downbeat or note.

This video isn't short, and it's not as refined as I'd like because it's a livestream but watching it might save you some time in the near-term and longterm:

https://www.wavelabhelp.com/videos/w...audio-montage/
Thanks Justin, advice much appreciated, CD Wizard!

Yeah the Elements comment was just a humorous afterthought.

What you’ve described sounds like what i’m accustomed to w soundBlade, quick & easy assembly, & editing with named markers.

Focusing more on the music, less on searching thru multiple tiny font menus!

Seems like soundBlade & Sonic Solutions before it being native Mac, was much more object oriented & intuitive, with the “montage” as the workspace for editing.

But it’s just the learning curve with so many features. Conquering the Complexity of it.

DSP Quattro is much closer to soundBlade and especially Wave Burner in terms of simple intuitive GUI & Workflow.

Years ago I could read an entire User Manual, retain nearly all of it, and apply it immediately. These days with decades of experience, my mastering approach is built into my very being, and it’s a matter of finding the right menus, tabs, & preferences to fit my concept, which i may need to adapt a little over the “1% per day over 100 days” learning curve. Right now, 1 hour per day is all the free time i can spare.

WaveLab 10 certainly has the power and features, an attractive GUI... and options!

Cheers, JT
Old 21st July 2021 | Show parent
  #21
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Justin Perkins's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Tubb ➡️
Years ago I could read an entire User Manual, retain nearly all of it, and apply it immediately. These days with decades of experience, my mastering approach is built into my very being, and it’s a matter of finding the right menus, tabs, & preferences to fit my concept, which i may need to adapt a little over the “1% per day over 100 days” learning curve. Right now, 1 hour per day is all the free time i can spare.

WaveLab 10 certainly has the power and features, an attractive GUI... and options!

Cheers, JT
Understood. To be honest, I've never read the WaveLab manual either. When I moved from WaveBurner to WaveLab the day it came to Mac, I just slowly started to figure it out.

I probably only use 10 to 20% of what it can really do but I'm at a point where aside from processing decisions and added rendering time due to plugins, I could probably load in an album of WAVs, arrange them and manually set song spacing/fades, add markers, add CD-Text/Metadata in about 2 or 3 minutes.

You'll get there.
Old 21st July 2021
  #22
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Hey Jerry! If you have time and you're a visual learner, I highly recommend sitting down with Justin's various explainer videos on YouTube. WaveLab's workflow was opaque to me beforehand -- and the manual, while not totally useless, is not exactly useful.

My day-to-day workflow is based entirely on Justin's advice, and even our last sB holdout here has happily switched.
Old 21st July 2021 | Show parent
  #23
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Jerry Tubb's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Perkins ➡️
Understood. To be honest, I've never read the WaveLab manual either. When I moved from WaveBurner to WaveLab the day it came to Mac, I just slowly started to figure it out.

I probably only use 10 to 20% of what it can really do but I'm at a point where aside from processing decisions and added rendering time due to plugins, I could probably load in an album of WAVs, arrange them and manually set song spacing/fades, add markers, add CD-Text/Metadata in about 2 or 3 minutes.

You'll get there.
Aha! you were a WaveBurner guy, that was a whole odyssey,

and then Apple just cancelled it

Thanks for the tips JP, really.

i Will get there... 1% at a time.

Cheers, JT
Old 21st July 2021 | Show parent
  #24
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Justin Perkins's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Tubb ➡️
Aha! you were a WaveBurner guy
Yeah, as I was getting more serious about mastering in the mid 2000s, I realized I was outgrowing WaveBurner rather quickly and Apple was basically letting it die rather than making it better.

As I was coming off a decade of heavy Pro Tools usage for recording/mixing/production and basically "a Mac guy", I really didn't have the time/resources to buy and setup a PC rig to run something like Sequoia or SADIE for mastering duties so luckily, WaveLab came to Mac at exactly the right time for me.

Even though WaveLab 7 which was the first Mac version was kind of a mess, I worked through it and now ~10 years later I'm quite happy with WaveLab 10 and the fact that I stayed with Mac which is my comfort zone.
Old 21st July 2021 | Show parent
  #25
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Jerry Tubb's Avatar
 
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Perkins ➡️
Yeah, as I was getting more serious about mastering in the mid 2000s, I realized I was outgrowing WaveBurner rather quickly and Apple was basically letting it die rather than making it better.

As I was coming off a decade of heavy Pro Tools usage for recording/mixing/production and basically "a Mac guy", I really didn't have the time/resources to buy and setup a PC rig to run something like Sequoia or SADIE for mastering duties so luckily, WaveLab came to Mac at exactly the right time for me.

Even though WaveLab 7 which was the first Mac version was kind of a mess, I worked through it and now ~10 years later I'm quite happy with WaveLab 10 and the fact that I stayed with Mac which is my comfort zone.
wrt waveburner, at least they fixed the "bit-bug" in v.1.6.1 before they let it die

yeah, us Mac guys are hardcore, started w apple, before there was Mac!

WaveLab 7 Mac was a total mess, but had some decent features, albeit all-thrown-together.
I bought it upon release (2010?), but let it sit dormant, other than for time-stretch/pitch-shift duties, which are the best i've found.

I went with Sonic in mid-2,000s because it sounds great, very simple intuitive blue GUI, easy to understand workflow.

I'll probably post some tips for my soundBlade compadres on how to get WL10 to work like soundBlade

But first I have to "Conquer the Complexity" tm2021 {:~o)>~

Best Regards, JT
Old 22nd July 2021
  #26
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The bit-bug along with horror stories about Mac system X from friends moved me over to PC with Samplitude replacing WaveBurner.
Old 22nd July 2021 | Show parent
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson ➡️
The bit-bug along with horror stories about Mac system X from friends moved me over to PC with Samplitude replacing WaveBurner.
interesting bio on Paul Robeson:

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmas...-the-actor/66/

Yeah DSP Quattro would be the most natural leap from WaveBurner, almost identical GUI & Workflow, I do like it, but decided to go with the challenge of WaveLab 10.

But having about 10 Macs at our studio at the time, ruled out even considering a switch to PC.

So Sonic Studio’s Pre-Master CD and soundBlade which was pretty much Sonic HD ported over to OS X became the DAW, along with Sonoris DDP on the side. But with Pro Tools for pitching.

The next item i’m gonna look at on WL10 is:

“Setting Up the Audio Input Plug-in” but on Mac

https://steinberg.help/wavelab_pro_p...ting_up_t.html

I like to catch & print with a limiter plug-in on the input, usually 2 dB, so i can hear how it affects the sound of the master in real time. something that’s totally obvious and easily done on soundBlade.

We’ll see if it can be duplicated in the WL10 Master section, maybe Live Input with FX.

Cheers, JT
Old 22nd July 2021
  #28
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1 Review written
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I have been using Wavelab for 25 years. Started on version 1.6.2. I have been happy with it all these years. Support from PG on the Wavelab forum has been OUTSTANDING. I am on version 9.5.5 and version 10. I run both Mac and PC versions. My mastering studio is PC my video studio is Mac. I am glad other people are discovering the program and having Justin doing his tutorials has been a real help. Congrats Jerry I hope you find it as valuable as I have found it to be.
Old 22nd July 2021 | Show parent
  #29
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Justin Perkins's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Tubb ➡️

I like to catch & print with a limiter plug-in on the input, usually 2 dB, so i can hear how it affects the sound of the master in real time. something that’s totally obvious and easily done on soundBlade.
You can definitely capture with a software limiter if you prefer, or what I prefer is to just monitor the capture through a limiter but without committing to the recorded file.

This allows for some flexibility if the client wants it a little louder, or less loud but also, makes it easy to create a vinyl friendly pre-master because the limiting is not baked in to the capture from analog...only present when you render the final version(s).
Old 22nd July 2021 | Show parent
  #30
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Jerry Tubb's Avatar
 
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe ➡️
I have been using Wavelab for 25 years. Started on version 1.6.2. I have been happy with it all these years. Support from PG on the Wavelab forum has been OUTSTANDING. I am on version 9.5.5 and version 10. I run both Mac and PC versions. My mastering studio is PC my video studio is Mac. I am glad other people are discovering the program and having Justin doing his tutorials has been a real help. Congrats Jerry I hope you find it as valuable as I have found it to be.
Thanks Thomas, I know you’ve been a hardcore WaveLab user for all these years since the 90s. But I didn’t know you also used the Mac version too.

What’s also impressive is the longevity of the DAW and continuing development, thanks to PG, & Steinberg.

My thinking process is very deeply trenched in Pro Tools & soundBlade, so this old dog is learning some new tricks, and changing with the times, kicking & screaming all the wayyyyy

cheers, jt
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Avatar for Thomas W. Bethe
Thomas W. Bethe 4 days ago
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