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TC 6000 Native : Opinion on MD3/MD4
Old 18th March 2021
  #1
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TC 6000 Native : Opinion on MD3/MD4

Hi ,

Is it worth buying in 2021 the legendary TC 6000 Native with MD3/4 for mastering?
Do you think it's a waste of money as there is now a big choice of multiband comps ?
Some people related a sonic difference between hardware & this new plugins. Any feedbacks would be helpful.
Thanks
Arnold
Old 19th March 2021
  #2
Old 19th March 2021
  #3
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jamwerks's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yeah would be interested in hearing opinions. How do these match up to other current plugs?
Old 19th March 2021 | Show parent
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Child ➡️
Thanks for the link , so basically it seems to null with invert phase test. That's great news.
Seems like MD4 is by far superior to MD3?
Old 19th March 2021 | Show parent
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnoldorodeo ➡️
Thanks for the link , so basically it seems to null with invert phase test. That's great news.
Seems like MD4 is by far superior to MD3?
It does not null in the sense you’re thinking it is..

Ofcourse any digital plugin would null when it would not be doing anything, when compressing or even set with the same parameters, the two plugins are imho poles apart in sound

That null test is basically of no use because that only justifies that the audio processor is clean when there is no processing

In the actual null test when the compressor is in action, you can hear that how different the two sound and how the do not null
Old 19th March 2021 | Show parent
  #6
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Child ➡️
You could clearly hear differences and I know it wasn’t a perfectly matched test. He tried his best but it wasn’t perfectly matched. But it did seem like the MD3 power core version was tighter and ‘poppier’. The transients were cleaner and more well defined. Now whichever different people prefer is another thing. But they did not sound the same.
Old 19th March 2021
  #7
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I dont think I've clicked on something as fast as I have the new NATIVE MD3.

How long have we waited for this..?
Old 20th March 2021
  #8
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I'm not interested in the MD3 (TC Finalizer) and while I generally steer away from anything multiband I was still curious to demo MD4. The limiter section I thought was not up to the standard of the many newer offerings. The EQ I didn't find all that good either, had a linear phase sound to it but could be wrong there. I know the crossovers for the MB compressor section are LP so it would kind of make sense that the EQ would also be LP. In any case, I felt it loses grip and feels a bit smeared compared to the likes of Equilibrium for example. The star and likely only saving grace of the MD4 for me at least is the MB compressor, which can be extremely useful and versatile depending on the source and what you're wanting to achieve.

Having the detection circuit variable between peak or RMS detection, linked or unlinked channel operation, normal downward compression, upward compression, upward expansion parallel blend variable attack, release, threshold, ratio & make up parameters per band add stereo or MS choices into the mix and you can start to see why this MB compression module is so flexible. It's definitely not a one trick pony but also not for the feint of heart as it can be easy to lose much time in all the settings refining and fine tuning parameters to get what should be quicker and easier to achieve. There are unique benefits with such a MB device but these don't come without some disadvantages and negative side effects. Such as it being easy to lose the tonal balance of the original mix depending on how evenly each band is being compressed and it can be hard to get that tonal balance back without additional EQ or spending considerable time re-adjusting the makeup gain of each of the 5 compression bands carefully. One other side-effect of MB compression (despite the LP crossovers being quite transparent) is that the different compression going on between each band can often effect the solidity and integrity of the stereo image. Having said all of that, it thrives well on certain genres like Hip Hop or bass heavy edm or pop styles. As far as MB compressors go, the MD4 is still quite possibly the top of the heap.

One other bonus was the saturation section of the limiter/output module. It can be useful in and of itself, less crackly than most I've tried, so if you're really pushing for level, this can help a little in that arena.
Old 26th March 2021
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
After 10 days of experience with the new software: The software sounds a bit wider and more clear. Maybe that's because no conversion is needed. But I have the feeling, that the hardware sounds more like a finished record. Not as wide, less highs, but everybody that listened to several examples in the studio preferred the hardware. And of course the workflow is different and you are mastering more intuitively with the hardware. It likely leads to different results! That can be of course changed with a controller, if available.
Old 27th March 2021
  #10
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
I have been using it for a week in several projects and I am quite happy with the MB section. I find it very usable and quite versatile. Its very transparent to my ears if you don't go too far. Just a tad of compression on the meters is quite enough in most cases
The limiter section sounds also good and the soft saturation very usable, depending on the track
Very happy that TC finally release MD4 and VSS4, they sound great
Old 29th March 2021 | Show parent
  #11
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majoraxis's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattGray ➡️
...As far as MB compressors go, the MD4 is still quite possibly the top of the heap...
I have to agree especially for mastering where do no harm is the rule, MD4 does a great job of not adding unwanted digital artifacts to the signal. And the compressor is punchy even when doing small amounts of gain reduction.

I am not into the soft saturator limiter. I use LoudMax instead.
Old 29th March 2021
  #12
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I'm absolutely loving MD3 and will purchase ASAP.

Used M5000 MD2 for years, feels great to have the compressor/expander back.

It is missing the option to change to 2 or 1 band though, unless I am missing something?
Old 29th March 2021 | Show parent
  #13
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🎧 5 years
worth noting that ALL implementations of tc multiband compressors sound slightly different; i've been using the finalizer, dbmax, eq station, powercore, m5000, system6000, db4/8...

i find them all very useful - too bad tc got sold/bought and support for most older products is pretty much non-existent and they are just recycling old ideas/designs...
Old 29th March 2021 | Show parent
  #14
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah ➡️
...and support for most older products is pretty much non-existent ...
Older products?

I had issues with the MD4HD Native not installing correctly, and not running once installed. Opened support tickets, and the devs basically said "too bad, work's OK for us" ... no attempt to remedy or even trouble-shoot . . .

Needless to say, I did not purchase

Which is too bad, I was looking forward to checking out. But I don't really need a MB
Old 29th March 2021 | Show parent
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loji ➡️
Older products?

I had issues with the MD4HD Native not installing correctly, and not running once installed. Opened support tickets, and the devs basically said "too bad, work's OK for us" ... no attempt to remedy or even trouble-shoot . . .

Needless to say, I did not purchase

Which is too bad, I was looking forward to checking out. But I don't really need a MB
sorry to hear that...
...which doesn't surprise me much though: i had so many issues with products from several brands which came under the umbrella of evil b. that i started selling most of them (and i just hope that those which i kept will last a little bit).

anyway, imo multiband dynamic processors can be highly useful - luckily, there are alternatives to tc!

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 30th March 2021 at 11:55 AM..
Old 31st March 2021
  #16
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I will check this out but indeed this release feels a bit "late to the party".
If I need multiband to fix a problem, the UAD Precision MB is really good. VERY fast, full of options (parallel, solo, ganged etc) and with the possibility to switch the crossover from min phase to lin phase.
Sometimes the good old Lin MB by waves still works well, or even the C4 in very very rare cases if it sounds right for the song.
Old 31st March 2021 | Show parent
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah ➡️
sorry to hear that...
...which doesn't surprise me much though:
yup ... and their un-installer . . also broken. Ran but didn't actually remove anything although it said it completed. I had to go dig into the OS to hunt down the various files to remove them manually
Old 1st April 2021
  #18
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🎧 5 years
Powercore plugs still sound good in 2021. Something to them. I usually use the Brickwall stuff. I’m no expert on MD4 etc so can’t comment on that. I also have the ‘Brickwall HD’ plug-in, which is definitely different, but sometimes it’s a good different. Funny enough I’m borrowing a TC 6000 from a buddy right now and using Brickwall 2- so I’ve now got every variety in here. A bit overkill lol. I’ve used every version on this master or the other, in the last few months- depending on the material. Brickwall, Brickwall HD, and Brickwall 2 all have slightly different options on certain things. It’s all good stuff to me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug1 ➡️
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Child ➡️
You could clearly hear differences and I know it wasn’t a perfectly matched test. He tried his best but it wasn’t perfectly matched. But it did seem like the MD3 power core version was tighter and ‘poppier’. The transients were cleaner and more well defined. Now whichever different people prefer is another thing. But they did not sound the same.
Old 1st April 2021 | Show parent
  #19
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X-Pand Sound Mastering's Avatar
 
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Speaking of Brickwall 2, it seems like they didn't include it in this new plugin suite ? Nor the GML Eq either ? That's the 2 I'd be most interested to try...

Quote:
Originally Posted by parisminzer ➡️
Powercore plugs still sound good in 2021. Something to them. I usually use the Brickwall stuff. I’m no expert on MD4 etc so can’t comment on that. I also have the ‘Brickwall HD’ plug-in, which is definitely different, but sometimes it’s a good different. Funny enough I’m borrowing a TC 6000 from a buddy right now and using Brickwall 2- so I’ve now got every variety in here. A bit overkill lol. I’ve used every version on this master or the other, in the last few months- depending on the material. Brickwall, Brickwall HD, and Brickwall 2 all have slightly different options on certain things. It’s all good stuff to me!
Old 1st April 2021
  #20
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loji's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
the GML EQ is released Native from Massenburg Design Works
Old 1st April 2021 | Show parent
  #21
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thermos's Avatar
 
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by loji ➡️
the GML EQ is released Native from Massenburg Design Works
Haven’t tried it yet, did you try it?
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #22
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Lagerfeldt's Avatar
 
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3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattGray ➡️
The star and likely only saving grace of the MD4 for me at least is the MB compressor, which can be extremely useful and versatile depending on the source and what you're wanting to achieve.

Having the detection circuit variable between peak or RMS detection, linked or unlinked channel operation, normal downward compression, upward compression, upward expansion parallel blend variable attack, release, threshold, ratio & make up parameters per band add stereo or MS choices into the mix and you can start to see why this MB compression module is so flexible. It's definitely not a one trick pony but also not for the feint of heart as it can be easy to lose much time in all the settings refining and fine tuning parameters to get what should be quicker and easier to achieve. There are unique benefits with such a MB device but these don't come without some disadvantages and negative side effects. Such as it being easy to lose the tonal balance of the original mix depending on how evenly each band is being compressed and it can be hard to get that tonal balance back without additional EQ or spending considerable time re-adjusting the makeup gain of each of the 5 compression bands carefully. One other side-effect of MB compression (despite the LP crossovers being quite transparent) is that the different compression going on between each band can often effect the solidity and integrity of the stereo image. Having said all of that, it thrives well on certain genres like Hip Hop or bass heavy edm or pop styles. As far as MB compressors go, the MD4 is still quite possibly the top of the heap.

One other bonus was the saturation section of the limiter/output module. It can be useful in and of itself, less crackly than most I've tried, so if you're really pushing for level, this can help a little in that arena.
My observations on the MD4 HD MB concur with yours, Matt.

Really digging the MD4 HD for multiband on some tracks.

I think another "hidden" bonus of working with the MD4 HD is what they didn't include: no huge graphical display.

Ears over eyes.

I have the full Native bundle and the verbs sound great, too. They won't get a lot of use here since I'm mainly mastering, but nice to have as well.
Old 1 week ago
  #23
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Thanks you all for your precious feedbacks!
I hesitated a lot for buying the whole bundle but in the end just came back to the essential and only bought the MD4.
I already own a TC4k so it's all fine with TC preverbs.
I feel that MD4 will expect some time to learn it well...
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