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Overstayer - Who Uses It and Which Version?
Old 20th June 2020
  #1
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Overstayer - Who Uses It and Which Version?

Interested in Overstayer. But which one for mastering?

Overstayer Modular Channel

Overstayer M-A-S

Overstayer NT-02A

I'm mainly after controllable harmonic flavors rather than EQ and compression. Suggestions for other units are also welcome...

Anyone have experience to share?

Thanks!

Last edited by Trakworx; 20th June 2020 at 05:07 PM..
Old 20th June 2020
  #2
We have both the MAS and NT-02A in our recording studios and I’ve briefly played with them. The MAS is the one I could see being used in a mix bus or mastering scenario, the NT-02A feels more like a creative tool better aimed for actually distorting stuff.

Plus you can get the MAS with some of the knobs detented - the rotary version - which helps with recall and seems to me more usable that way.
Old 21st June 2020
  #3
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I've been vaguely on the lookout for something that does some nice rounding of transients so I'd be interested to get your thoughts on the Overstayer if you get one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakworx ➡️
Suggestions for other units are also welcome...
Different price range, but the Vertigo VSM-2 or Whitestone p331 are worth considering. Or perhaps one of the FCS thingies for something in a similar price range.

Edit: Or of course the HG-2.

Last edited by SmoothTone; 21st June 2020 at 12:03 AM.. Reason: Addition
Old 21st June 2020 | Show parent
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothTone ➡️
I've been vaguely on the lookout for something that does some nice rounding of transients so I'd be interested to get your thoughts on the Overstayer if you get one.



Different price range, but the Vertigo VSM-2 or Whitestone p331 are worth considering. Or perhaps one of the FCS thingies for something in a similar price range.

Edit: Or of course the HG-2.
Whitestone P331 doesn't round the transients.

Its ultra transparent.
Old 21st June 2020 | Show parent
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polybonk ➡️
Whitestone P331 doesn't round the transients.

Its ultra transparent.
That was just my interest in the M-A-S. I suggested the P331 because trakworx said he was looking for harmonic flavours.

So, you've got a P331 then, Darren? I might have to pay you a visit!
Old 21st June 2020
  #6
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Ah I see what you meant now.

Yeah its not really much of a harmonic flavor box. Its literally like when you listen to a very very high end tube amp.
Its super left right coherent so it doesn't shift the soundstage much. Xformer can make it a bit flatter.
2 mode on Xformer dampens the highs, almost never use that.
Lift is like a subtle EQ doing tops and bass boost.
Bloom is like half a dB of feed forward compression.
Its so balanced and subtle.

Its a unit I bought for my own personal ambient music.
Before I used to not use anything as nothing felt necessary especially for all analog synth drone ambient. But its so slight that it works even then.

Its used on this track which is written on a Nord Lead A1 as the only instrument:


I know its fairly useless in the broader context of contemporary music mastering but the video clip is nice to look at. Its also the music I make to unwind after a week full of Mastering.

Here is the before and after if anyone wants. Its not level matched tho.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/flhed15kai...rrest.zip?dl=0

Regardless its what I purchased the P331 for.
Made it softer in some way. More delicate. Less like a digital synth somehow. More like being in nature.

It was kind of crazy having all this mastering gear and almost never using it on my own music. P331 is pretty much the only thing I use for me.

So IMHO the P331 is the ultimate must have unit for ambient synth music.
Being the massive market that it is hahaha.


Back to the color boxes.

P331 is nothing like the Mastering Culture Vulture which has more 3D effect and harmonics etc and would fit the bill more if you want valve color.
For controllable harmonics I would suggest the Bettermaker Mastering Limiter color section as well.

Or the Anamod ATS1.
Old 21st June 2020
  #7
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Nice track polybonk! We should form an ME's drone club.
Old 21st June 2020 | Show parent
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothTone ➡️
I've been vaguely on the lookout for something that does some nice rounding of transients so I'd be interested to get your thoughts on the Overstayer if you get one.



Different price range, but the Vertigo VSM-2 or Whitestone p331 are worth considering. Or perhaps one of the FCS thingies for something in a similar price range.

Edit: Or of course the HG-2.
Actually, rounding of transients isn't what I'm looking for, and after further reading I think Overstayer may be the wrong choice for me.

To be more clear, what I'm wishing for is a harmonics generator with frequency control. Like the VSM-2, except that when I demoed the VSM-3 plugin it didn't do anything that I liked. I have and use the HG-2 plugin but I'd like more frequency control.

I don't know that what I'm looking for exists in hardware. Might have to try some more plugins...
Old 21st June 2020
  #9
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What about the Gyraf G21 Infundibulum? I still don't understand exactly what that thing does...
Old 21st June 2020
  #10
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Macc has one, hopefully he'll chime in.

I didn't like the VSM-3 the first time I tried it either, but I picked it up awhile back when they were essentially giving it away and it's proved useful a few times. Worth a second look at least.
Old 21st June 2020
  #11
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The G21 is nothing like a harmonics generator. It’s very much in the ‘lopping off transients’ camp.
Old 21st June 2020 | Show parent
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakworx ➡️
To be more clear, what I'm wishing for is a harmonics generator with frequency control. Like the VSM-2, except that when I demoed the VSM-3 plugin it didn't do anything that I liked. I have and use the HG-2 plugin but I'd like more frequency control.

I don't know that what I'm looking for exists in hardware. Might have to try some more plugins...
I always thought a kind of sidechain input would be a nice feature for the HG-2 (HW) where you could use an external EQ to really shape the overtones to your liking.

In plugin land, Spectre is what satisfied my wish for greater frequency control of harmonics. The interface is like an EQ and it can do boosts+overtones or just overtones. Between the different saturation types, selectable intensity and inversely linked in/out gain, you also have a lot of control over how you drive it.

For the record, the transient rounding was just my interest and I only mentioned it because it seems a main feature of the M-A-S. Sorry to have confused things.
Old 21st June 2020
  #13
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I have an overstayer MAS. Personally I think it’s great for clean, sparser arrangements that could use some lower order harmonics and transient rounding pre-limiter. It also works to give you that forward API sound. But for this reason, I don’t get to use it very often as many mixes I receive are too dense at the start, and I use a 2500.

Unless somethings changed, the rotary version has a variable input pot, so channel matching could still be a problem. For this reason I opted for the standard version (a few hundred cheaper) and run it in mid side.
Old 21st June 2020 | Show parent
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothTone ➡️
I always thought a kind of sidechain input would be a nice feature for the HG-2 (HW) where you could use an external EQ to really shape the overtones to your liking.

In plugin land, Spectre is what satisfied my wish for greater frequency control of harmonics. The interface is like an EQ and it can do boosts+overtones or just overtones. Between the different saturation types, selectable intensity and inversely linked in/out gain, you also have a lot of control over how you drive it.

For the record, the transient rounding was just my interest and I only mentioned it because it seems a main feature of the M-A-S. Sorry to have confused things.
I suppose you could EQ into an HG-2 on a parallel bus and blend it in... I was thinking of doing something like that with my Michelangelo; Crank it and use it's EQ for shaping, then blend in parallel...

Spectre has been on my loooooong list of plugins to demo. Might have to move it to the top of the list. Thanks!
Old 22nd June 2020 | Show parent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scraggs ➡️
Nice track polybonk! We should form an ME's drone club.
Glad you like it. You make similar stuff? Would love to hear some!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakworx ➡️
What about the Gyraf G21 Infundibulum? I still don't understand exactly what that thing does...
The Infundibulum is not a color box. What it essentially does when it works well is take the transients of your track and pull them back into the body of the music without changing the shape of the peaks.

Its also a very very complex box that takes a heck of a lot of listening and practice on a massive variety of material in order to get the hang of.

Its very non linear and is affected very much by:
What feeds it.
What is post.
What the input levels are.
The individual track.

For example it sounds awful being fed by my Alpha. Level drops and energy of the track is softer/dull sounding.

But feed it from the Fairman TMC and I need to use the trimmer to reduce the output as it will add over 2dB of gain.
Which is impressive for a passive box!

Again with feeding it different material it might sound punchy on one track with one setting but then have a slightly softening effect on another.

The 10 different threshold settings are essentially 10 different units and all impart a sound.
Some are punchy.
Some act a bit like a vari mu.
One of them will tuck the kick in but make the snare crack.
Another 2 of them will tuck in both but have a different punch.
Some of them are softer sounding.

Very very complex. Hard to predict.
And you really need to know your setup because the point of saturation is subtle and most of the action that you want is all in the first dB or 2 of change.

And thats just the main clipper!

The multiband part made my Maselec MLA-3 redundant. Its fantastic a reducing harshness on the tops or pulling in Sub energy.
Old 22nd June 2020 | Show parent
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakworx ➡️
To be more clear, what I'm wishing for is a harmonics generator with frequency control.
Thats what the Bettermaker Harmonics section is. Very very good at it as well.
Old 22nd June 2020
  #17
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🎧 5 years
I have the MAS and I've used it for a few things. My main use is for mastering and adding some harmonics when needed. I make and work with a lot of gritty music in general and the MAS is a great final polisher for me. I've also used it with my Kemper to give a little analog life while guitar tracking and it's great for that. I like the physical line outs into a preamp and into the MAS better than using the SPDIF for my Kemper.

I was using the UAD VSM-3 plugin for a similar job on my masters and that has a little more flexibility with features so I'll still use it from time to time but I think the MAS just makes everything a little big better than runs through it. I plan on getting more of their stuff in the future.
Old 22nd June 2020
  #18
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Not to go off topic, but since it was mentioned.....I spent an hour or two messing with Spectre last night and it's great: sounds really good and the GUI is mercifully simple and easy to understand/navigate. Looks super clean in plugin doctor as well. Good stuff, buying it today.

Thanks Dom for the tip! BTW I came around to your opinion on the HG-2, need to figure out a parallel situation for that thing.
Old 22nd June 2020 | Show parent
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polybonk ➡️
The Infundibulum is not a color box. What it essentially does when it works well is take the transients of your track and pull them back into the body of the music without changing the shape of the peaks.

Its also a very very complex box that takes a heck of a lot of listening and practice on a massive variety of material in order to get the hang of.

Its very non linear and is affected very much by:
What feeds it.
What is post.
What the input levels are.
The individual track.

For example it sounds awful being fed by my Alpha. Level drops and energy of the track is softer/dull sounding.

But feed it from the Fairman TMC and I need to use the trimmer to reduce the output as it will add over 2dB of gain.
Which is impressive for a passive box!

Again with feeding it different material it might sound punchy on one track with one setting but then have a slightly softening effect on another.

The 10 different threshold settings are essentially 10 different units and all impart a sound.
Some are punchy.
Some act a bit like a vari mu.
One of them will tuck the kick in but make the snare crack.
Another 2 of them will tuck in both but have a different punch.
Some of them are softer sounding.

Very very complex. Hard to predict.
And you really need to know your setup because the point of saturation is subtle and most of the action that you want is all in the first dB or 2 of change.

And thats just the main clipper!

The multiband part made my Maselec MLA-3 redundant. Its fantastic a reducing harshness on the tops or pulling in Sub energy.
I've written a lot of stuff about this box but that's a better summary than I've ever managed.
Old 22nd June 2020 | Show parent
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scraggs ➡️
I spent an hour or two messing with Spectre last night and it's great: sounds really good and the GUI is mercifully simple and easy to understand/navigate.
I know, right?! It's nice when you find yourself thinking, "why can't there be a harmonics processor with an interface like Pro-Q?" And then you find Spectre. Doesn't happen very often.

Quote:
BTW I came around to your opinion on the HG-2, need to figure out a parallel situation for that thing.
Very interesting. I have a DAV SIPP or Zahl IM1 that I'll be selling if you're interested. I'm even willing to loan one to you for you to try out with the HG-2. FWIW, I tried the HG-2 in parallel and still wasn't 100% happy.
Old 22nd June 2020 | Show parent
  #21
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And to bring it back on topic...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakworx ➡️
I was thinking of doing something like that with my Michelangelo; Crank it and use it's EQ for shaping, then blend in parallel...
I thought you were already doing this with your MA Justin?

I'm using it like this sometimes and it's pretty cool. Especially now I have dedicated pre and post gain so I can drive it exactly how I want.

But I have to say (at the risk of committing GS blasphemy), I often prefer digital tools for very precise harmonics manipulation.
Old 23rd June 2020 | Show parent
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothTone ➡️
I thought you were already doing this with your MA Justin?

I'm using it like this sometimes and it's pretty cool. Especially now I have dedicated pre and post gain so I can drive it exactly how I want.

But I have to say (at the risk of committing GS blasphemy), I often prefer digital tools for very precise harmonics manipulation.
Well I have the MA patched through a TK Mini Blender but TBH it turns out that I rarely use the blend knob because of the subtle ways I've learned to use the MA - I like the full effect of the box. Using it in parallel for harmonics would preclude using it the ways I like using it now... Still, it's worth experimenting with. Might need 2 MAs.

Or... there's a new kid on the block called "The Oven" that's a collaboration between Maor Appelbaum and Hendyamps. Maor is sending me some samples to evaluate. It's expensive and built to order. He just happened to hit me up about it on Instagram a couple days ago even though he didn't know about this thread. We had a phone call and it seems like maybe a good complement to the MA...

I demoed Spectre yesterday and it does indeed offer all the precise control I could want. It sounds good, though to me it still sounds "like a plugin". I'll probably buy it, but it's not the exact sound I'm chasing. Maybe I just need to spend more time with it.
Attached Thumbnails
Overstayer - Who Uses It and Which Version?-oven.jpg  
Old 23rd June 2020
  #23
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Try Spectre on rectify with some big boosts.
Old 23rd June 2020 | Show parent
  #24
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It's always harder when you've got a very specific sound in mind, isn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakworx ➡️
Or... there's a new kid on the block called "The Oven"
Looks interesting. If it's ok to share those samples I'd be curious to hear them. Thanks for the heads-up.
Old 24th June 2020 | Show parent
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scraggs ➡️
Try Spectre on rectify with some big boosts.
Yeah, that sounds even better than cranking it on "Diode"

But seriously, I spent a little more time with it and I got better at dialing in something I liked. 'Gonna buy it even though it's not everything I'm after. It'll have it's uses for sure.
Old 25th June 2020 | Show parent
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macc ➡️
I've written a lot of stuff about this box but that's a better summary than I've ever managed.
IDK man. Your posts were specifically responsible for me getting one in.
Feels the other way round for me.

But yeah takes a lot of listening to get your head around the Infundibulum.
Absolutely the definition of Esoteric gear.
Old 26th June 2020 | Show parent
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothTone ➡️
Looks interesting. If it's ok to share those samples I'd be curious to hear them. Thanks for the heads-up.
Here's a link to the samples of The Oven on a full mix. Maor made these and then I level-matched them. I'd be interested in your opinion.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kjX...ew?usp=sharing

Here is what he wrote about the unit:

The Temp is the Solid-state Coloration - The More - the Moreeee ( the sound becomes thicker and louder

The Cook is the Tube coloration - The More - the thicker and a feel of fullness but not too much level add on as compared to the TEMP

The Temp section has "High" and "Low" Drive setting switch.

The cook has "Bake" and "Broil" which gives the tube a different voicing ( bake softer / Broil edgier ) and a "Gas" / "Elec" switch which gives a different intensity range.

The stems are just showing how with minimal processing its still possible to get thickness without loosing too much of the transients making this unit great for electronic music.



The Burners are the Tone Shapers of the unit ( like an EQ but it interacts with the unit together )

They give you control on the lows, mids and highs plus the upper section which is labeled “ Sizzle”

Each burner has 2 modes of where the affected area is thus giving you 2 options to choose from on each Burner.



The Bunsen changes the way the Top Burner works and thus you got 4 different tonal options to choose from on the top burner ( thats including the 2 already as default )



The Sizzle is the upper range above the Top Burner kind of like the "AIR" in two modes that gives you two options off the range of it.



The Burned button makes it sound kind of Lo-Fi



The settings I had changed in the samples are marked in the name of the file and they are very subtle without even engaging the " Burners" ( that's tonal shaping section - broadband )
Old 27th June 2020
  #28
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Man thats a pretty subtle unit.

Did he say what genres/styles its useful for in his setup?

Thanks for the files!
Old 27th June 2020
  #29
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He sent me some samples a few weeks back and I too level matched them in RX in order to try to understand what was happening.

While I do hear some very tasteful tone swelling that varies subtlety according to the settings, my immediate focus was on the obvious analog clipping which the samples each have varying degrees of.

Once level matched the primary differences between the clips are crest factor related IMO. This is not a bad thing per se, and there are a few other awesome boxes that shake off the dead leafs to great affect.

And I definitely heard some beautiful transient enhancement that no digital clipper or expander I've heard can achieve. A very musical splat that gives the ear the impression of more transient even when visually the waveform is showing less. For this punch enhancement alone im still interested.
Old 27th June 2020 | Show parent
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polybonk ➡️
Man thats a pretty subtle unit.

Did he say what genres/styles its useful for in his setup?

Thanks for the files!
I got the impression that he uses it a lot on a variety of material.

It is pretty subtle on the +2 samples, and then it's pretty heavy on the +4 samples. +10 must be something to hear!
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