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SSL Fusion
Old 21st February 2021 | Show parent
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by en5ca ➡️
Hi! Is anyone having problems with stereo level matching of the SSL Fusion?

Manual states stereo matching should be better than 0.01 dB. When Vintage Drive is engaged, it should better than 0.25 dB.

My measuring accuracy is 0.1 dB.

When bypassed, the left and right channel levels match perfectly with +4 dBu 1kHz test signal.

When I disengage the bypass (basically enable the processing), but don't enable any of the modules, the levels still match almost perfectly. At unity levels.

But when I start to adjust input and/or output trims, I start to get static level 'tilt' towards left channel of about 0.3 dBs. Without any modules engaged.

If I enable the Vintage Drive, this gets worse, and results in ~0.6 dBs tilt towards left channel, and this starts to become clearly audible.

With music material, things gets even more uneven, resulting in about ~1 dBs of peak and RMS tilt towards left channel. With mono or stereo source material.

We returned the unit to the retailer, who measured and confirmed this. But now the replacement unit shows exactly the same kind of behaviour. Is it possible that we got a faulty unit, and the replacement unit, from a 'bad batch' or is this just a feature of the SSL Fusion, and therefore something we have to measure and compensate with 3rd party processing, as SSL Fusion doens't have channel trims?
How did you end up solving or adjusting for this? I’m experiencing the same thing, left channel level is slightly lower. The issue compounded when I run the signal through more gear after the Fusion the point where I’m getting a -0.6dB difference by the time it gets into my DAW. If this is the nature of the unit, how can I adjust? I have RN542s at the end of my chain. Can I simply add a a little gain in the left?
Old 22nd February 2021 | Show parent
  #212
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2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by drainyoo ➡️
How did you end up solving or adjusting for this? I’m experiencing the same thing, left channel level is slightly lower. The issue compounded when I run the signal through more gear after the Fusion the point where I’m getting a -0.6dB difference by the time it gets into my DAW. If this is the nature of the unit, how can I adjust? I have RN542s at the end of my chain. Can I simply add a a little gain in the left?
Sure. Why not? But I found that issue to be a combo of many variables inside the Fusion. Eventually I arrived at a setting which sounded great and had channels matched by accident. Never changed it since. Stereo matching seems to be mostly about drive and density settings.
Old 22nd February 2021 | Show parent
  #213
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dariva's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Here, the EQ section actually introduces most of the volume mismatch. But it may vary from day to day. I don't worry too much about it and compensate on the way in my UR824 interface.
Old 22nd February 2021 | Show parent
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dariva ➡️
Here, the EQ section actually introduces most of the volume mismatch. But it may vary from day to day. I don't worry too much about it and compensate on the way in my UR824 interface.
I wonder if there's a plugin that can easily do this that I can slap onto my mixdown Aux track in my DAW.
Old 23rd February 2021 | Show parent
  #215
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dariva's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by drainyoo ➡️
I wonder if there's a plugin that can easily do this that I can slap onto my mixdown Aux track in my DAW.
Well, maybe using a test tone generator and GainMatch by Letimix could do the trick. But I prefer using the test tone with the Cubase meter and a correlation meter and aim for the closest mono return signal.
Old 23rd February 2021 | Show parent
  #216
Gear Addict
 
dariva's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Gain staging

So, I've been reading about gain staging with hardware a lot....and I realized yesterday that I haven't been really paying attention to it that much.

I've been hitting the Fusion with a pretty hot signal, and on top of it, pushing the Drive section into the orange and occasionally the red for that "aggressive analog sound".... This would benefit drums and distorted guitars, but would eat the low mids out of the vocals and make them thin - which now I realize is the effect of too much harmonics.

Yesterday, I attenuated the send with about 10 db and kept the Drive in the green. Now this was a revelation - I started appreciating the sound of this box a lot more.

Now I'll go and rediscover my other hardware.

What input and output levels are peeps here using with this gem? Somebody mentioned a set-and-forget setting - let's share those!

For me, it might be Drive and Density at 11 a.m. and 1 p.m. respectively - a bit like the 1176 classic attack/release knobs positions. Also, the stereo section engaged in 90% of the cases - I seem to loose a bit of width when going through the AD/DA loop, so this compensates. The transformer is rarely usable. The HF comp is gold.
Old 23rd February 2021 | Show parent
  #217
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2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dariva ➡️
So, I've been reading about gain staging with hardware a lot....and I realized yesterday that I haven't been really paying attention to it that much.

I've been hitting the Fusion with a pretty hot signal, and on top of it, pushing the Drive section into the orange and occasionally the red for that "aggressive analog sound".... This would benefit drums and distorted guitars, but would eat the low mids out of the vocals and make them thin - which now I realize is the effect of too much harmonics.

Yesterday, I attenuated the send with about 10 db and kept the Drive in the green. Now this was a revelation - I started appreciating the sound of this box a lot more.

Now I'll go and rediscover my other hardware.

What input and output levels are peeps here using with this gem? Somebody mentioned a set-and-forget setting - let's share those!

For me, it might be Drive and Density at 11 a.m. and 1 p.m. respectively - a bit like the 1176 classic attack/release knobs positions. Also, the stereo section engaged in 90% of the cases - I seem to loose a bit of width when going through the AD/DA loop, so this compensates. The transformer is rarely usable. The HF comp is gold.
Yeah, gainstaging especially with HW is paramount. But it works both ways, turning down for a full and wide signal or hitting superhard for some tube or tranny mojo in a color box.

I've seen people hitting the Fusion quite differently in some vids I watched, but in the end it all sounded good. Personally I find it works best with the meters peaking between 12 and 18, which is the level my mixes are hitting anyway.

The set and forget setting I'm using for quite some time now will change eventually, but has been this for at least a year:

Input 0
HPF Off (rarely using 30Hz)
Drive 5 (11:00)
Density 5 (12:00)
50 Hz (between +3 and the line before)
12 kHz (on the first dot between 0 and +3)
HF Comp Threshold +2 / X-Over on dot between 7 and 10 KHz
Space on first dot between 0 and +4
Width on +2
Tranny on (I love its lowend but hate its super highend, usually the HF comp softens it so I can stand it)
Output dot between -4 and -8 (set for unity gain with processing on and off)

I used to use my Smart C1 in the Fusion insert, but for some reason it always sounded too soft for me, not as punchy as usual. Now I have it before the Fusion and like it much better.
Old 23rd February 2021
  #218
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Jesse Skeens's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Just ordered mine after a week testing on Access analogue.
Old 25th February 2021 | Show parent
  #219
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Jesse Skeens's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Is it normal for the insert engaged to add 6db of volume (both normal and M/S mode)
Old 30th March 2021 | Show parent
  #220
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gsilbers's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Had for a few months now.

It didn’t replace my master bus plugins but added it to it and does help making my mix sound thicker.

The obvious drawback was its lack of a buss compressor. This unit with the normal ssl bus vCa
Buss compressor would have been a knockout.

Adding something like warm audio buss compressor would work of course , but would of loved all on one unit. A set it and forget it setup
Old 30th March 2021 | Show parent
  #221
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2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilbers ➡️
Had for a few months now.

It didn’t replace my master bus plugins but added it to it and does help making my mix sound thicker.

The obvious drawback was its lack of a buss compressor. This unit with the normal ssl bus vCa
Buss compressor would have been a knockout.

Adding something like warm audio buss compressor would work of course , but would of loved all on one unit. A set it and forget it setup
The built in Listen Mic Compressor just blended in a bit sounds surprisingly good, if you can spare the HF comp. I like that it gives you the insert to include your gear and costs 2k less than with a buss comp onboard. With insert in MS you could even use two different mono units.
Old 31st March 2021
  #222
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Analogue Mastering's Avatar
 
Verified Member
🎧 10 years
Exactly. My whole chain is on that insert. I love the Fusion
Old 31st March 2021 | Show parent
  #223
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3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Skeens ➡️
Is it normal for the insert engaged to add 6db of volume (both normal and M/S mode)
Hey Jesse,

I just wondered if you ever got an answer for this?

I'm looking to order a Fusion today and use the insert feature to plug in my bus comp. Would be good to know if this is expected situation or a fault.
Old 31st March 2021
  #224
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Analogue Mastering's Avatar
 
Verified Member
🎧 10 years
Not experiencing this, probably using unbalanced gear.
Old 31st March 2021 | Show parent
  #225
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Jesse Skeens's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by blayz2002 ➡️
Hey Jesse,

I just wondered if you ever got an answer for this?

I'm looking to order a Fusion today and use the insert feature to plug in my bus comp. Would be good to know if this is expected situation or a fault.
Hi no never figured out why. I just got used to it and compensate elsewhere.

I could probably unhook my chain one piece at a time to see if that helps. Maybe something is gaining up 6db but never noticed that before.

It hasn't been a hinderance though. I don't bypass the insert itself, just the whole unit.

Really happy with the unit overall. Still using Weiss for some deessing but really like how the Fusion handles it.
Old 31st March 2021 | Show parent
  #226
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3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Skeens ➡️
Hi no never figured out why. I just got used to it and compensate elsewhere.

I could probably unhook my chain one piece at a time to see if that helps. Maybe something is gaining up 6db but never noticed that before.

It hasn't been a hinderance though. I don't bypass the insert itself, just the whole unit.

Really happy with the unit overall. Still using Weiss for some deessing but really like how the Fusion handles it.
Okay thanks for the update.

I guess I'll just see how this works for me. My order should arrive tomorrow
Old 31st March 2021 | Show parent
  #227
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Jesse Skeens's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by blayz2002 ➡️
Okay thanks for the update.

I guess I'll just see how this works for me. My order should arrive tomorrow
Would be great if you reported back, curious to know if it affects others.
Old 2nd April 2021 | Show parent
  #228
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3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Skeens ➡️
Would be great if you reported back, curious to know if it affects others.
I haven’t done any deep testing yet, but upon hooking everything up (I’m using a Wes Audio Dione), I did not experience any noticeable change in level, when hooked up via the insert (pre-EQ) setting. And this is on a track I was previously mixing with the Dione after my analog summing box. The gain structure seemed to remain the same once the Fusion was implemented.

Good news for me, but possibly not for you?
Old 2nd April 2021 | Show parent
  #229
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Jesse Skeens's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by blayz2002 ➡️
I haven’t done any deep testing yet, but upon hooking everything up (I’m using a Wes Audio Dione), I did not experience any noticeable change in level, when hooked up via the insert (pre-EQ) setting. And this is on a track I was previously mixing with the Dione after my analog summing box. The gain structure seemed to remain the same once the Fusion was implemented.

Good news for me, but possibly not for you?
Cheers, thanks for the report. One day I'll unplug mine and try to get to the bottom of it. Did you try M/S mode as well?
Old 3rd April 2021 | Show parent
  #230
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3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Skeens ➡️
Cheers, thanks for the report. One day I'll unplug mine and try to get to the bottom of it. Did you try M/S mode as well?
I haven’t tried MS mode yet. I’ll let you know how that goes. Good luck with your testing. Have you tried reaching out directly to SSL Support? One would hope they could give you a straight answer.
Old 3rd April 2021 | Show parent
  #231
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Jesse Skeens's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by blayz2002 ➡️
I haven’t tried MS mode yet. I’ll let you know how that goes. Good luck with your testing. Have you tried reaching out directly to SSL Support? One would hope they could give you a straight answer.
Thanks. I know when I did MS digitally the level would change but I assume they compensate for that in the Fusion.

Didn't contact SSL yet as I know first thing they'd ask is if I tested what I've got inserted fully which I haven't for now.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #232
........i really love the fusion, but i have the same problem re: balance

ive got my Fusion on the Main Inserts of my SSL Six, balanced cables.

if i send a sine wave at -12 db through the Fusion, with the Drive button enabled I'm getting c. 1.6 db disparity between left and right channels....and this is actually a bit inconvenient at this point.


(Drive and Density both set at the 12 o clock position)

If i disengage the drive button....everything reverts back to the proper perfect balance between L and R


if i sweep the frequency upwards from 20hz the louder side is the left channel, then as i near and then pass 2kHz the right channel starts to increase in gain relatively to the left channel ...and then anything above 2k the right side is the louder of the channels.

This is causing me difficulties for a mixed stereo vocal stem that im passing through the fusion

almost 2 db variation on a -12db source signal seems a little bit "too analogue" ...im a bit baffled if using a dual mono gain trim over the stem to balance left and right is what i really wanted to be doing at this stage in the process

.....if im forced to use a trim plug in to rebalance my stereo image in my vocal stem is there any pitfalls to watch out for.....(im thinking is this going to cause me potential phase issues or negatively effect my "stereo imaging" I've got in the stem already ?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #233
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Analogue Mastering's Avatar
 
Verified Member
🎧 10 years
Luckily you have a mid/side matrix (hint hint )

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostman ➡️
........i really love the fusion, but i have the same problem re: balance

ive got my Fusion on the Main Inserts of my SSL Six, balanced cables.

if i send a sine wave at -12 db through the Fusion, with the Drive button enabled I'm getting c. 1.6 db disparity between left and right channels....and this is actually a bit inconvenient at this point.


(Drive and Density both set at the 12 o clock position)

If i disengage the drive button....everything reverts back to the proper perfect balance between L and R


if i sweep the frequency upwards from 20hz the louder side is the left channel, then as i near and then pass 2kHz the right channel starts to increase in gain relatively to the left channel ...and then anything above 2k the right side is the louder of the channels.

This is causing me difficulties for a mixed stereo vocal stem that im passing through the fusion

almost 2 db variation on a -12db source signal seems a little bit "too analogue" ...im a bit baffled if using a dual mono gain trim over the stem to balance left and right is what i really wanted to be doing at this stage in the process

.....if im forced to use a trim plug in to rebalance my stereo image in my vocal stem is there any pitfalls to watch out for.....(im thinking is this going to cause me potential phase issues or negatively effect my "stereo imaging" I've got in the stem already ?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering ➡️
Luckily you have a mid/side matrix (hint hint )
Lol , this is like an extension of my Easter egg hunt

I’d thought it was only active on the insert


I shall have to investigate it further thank you
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #235
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Jesse Skeens's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostman ➡️
Lol , this is like an extension of my Easter egg hunt

I’d thought it was only active on the insert


I shall have to investigate it further thank you
I thought that too so not sure if that will help but interested to hear if it does.

I just checked mine and having Vintage drive on showed less than 0.1db difference so guess I got lucky.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #236
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engmix's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Skeens ➡️
Is it normal for the insert engaged to add 6db of volume (both normal and M/S mode)
Not the case with my unit. I often have a Drawmer 1973 and an IGS Tubecore on the insert / return, no issues what so ever in terms of added gain.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #237
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Jesse Skeens's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by engmix ➡️
Not the case with my unit. I often have a Drawmer 1973 and an IGS Tubecore on the insert / return, no issues what so ever in terms of added gain.
Thanks. I at least glad I don't have a left/right offset like some others.

Must be a cabling issue or something causing the 6db since it's a perfect multiple.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #238
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Jesse Skeens's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Anyone notice low level crackling when Vintage drive is on? Today I heard something that sounded like a loose connection in the left channel.

Found out that with nothing plugged to the input of the Fusion (and input turned down) I'm getting a random dirty crackle noise out of the left channel.

It's fairly low, about -70db (right channel shows -80 at same level setting) but noticeable once some limiting is applied.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #239
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2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Skeens ➡️
Anyone notice low level crackling when Vintage drive is on? Today I heard something that sounded like a loose connection in the left channel.

Found out that with nothing plugged to the input of the Fusion (and input turned down) I'm getting a random dirty crackle noise out of the left channel.

It's fairly low, about -70db (right channel shows -80 at same level setting) but noticeable once some limiting is applied.
No, that's not to be expected. Seems you do have a monday unit.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #240
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Jesse Skeens's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSchlomo ➡️
No, that's not to be expected. Seems you do have a monday unit.
Sent a recording to SSL who are on it so will see what they say.
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