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little digital monitor controller (replacement for t.c. bmc-2)
Old 30th April 2018
  #1
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little digital monitor controller (replacement for t.c. bmc-2)

unfortunately t.c. has stopped the production of the bmc-2.
now I am looking for a small, digital monitor controller - digital in (aes/ebu or sp/dif), digital leveling, digital out (aes/ebu or sp/dif).
sampling rate 44β€”96k is ok, better up to 192k.
mono, listen to r-signal, 'dim' and 'cut' are nice, but not necessary.
who has a tip?
i'm looking for a small and simple solution.
Old 30th April 2018
  #2
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Giuseppe Zaccaria's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
So in the end they stopped! What a pain there...
I have it like you, and I can't think anything else so perfect and cheap.
I know Crokwood does it but on another budget, lets see if someone knows more...
Old 30th April 2018
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Not really a long term solution, but have you asked TC if they have any stock left?
Old 30th April 2018
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Old 30th April 2018 | Show parent
  #5
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like i wrote, digital IN AND OUT with DIGITAL LEVELING.
Old 30th April 2018 | Show parent
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippocratic Mastering ➑️
Not really a long term solution, but have you asked TC if they have any stock left?
it's not so much about me, it's more about the customers of our monitoring system with acrive, digital crossover (like guzauski swist, barefoot, dutch&dutch ASO) who ask me now about a great solution. i for myself also would like to know for myself about a solution if my bmc-2 once past away.
Old 30th April 2018
  #7
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As mentioned above, Crookwood do offer a monitor control only, without any other mastering console capabilities. Not sure how much it costs but yes, probably a fair bit more than the TC unit.
Old 30th April 2018 | Show parent
  #8
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teebaum ➑️
like i wrote, digital IN AND OUT with DIGITAL LEVELING.
Just trying to help you don't have to SHOUT! I am sure someone like Crookwood could make you what you want.
Old 30th April 2018
  #9
Deleted 49af092
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Have you looked at the Dangerous Source? It seems to at least come very close to your requirements.

I may get one for my B room but for now I'm using a Black Lion Audio modded Apollo Twin MKII. The Black Lion mod adds a digital output that isn't a stock feature which is very useful. AFAIK, the digital output always mirrors the main monitor output.

One or both of these together seem like a good solution until I can justify an Avocet in BOTH rooms.
Old 30th April 2018 | Show parent
  #10
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01010110's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 49af092 ➑️
One or both of these together seem like a good solution until I can justify an Avocet in BOTH rooms.
Does the latest Avocet have digital monitor outputs? That would be fantastic.
Old 30th April 2018 | Show parent
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01010110 ➑️
Does the latest Avocet have digital monitor outputs? That would be fantastic.
Not that I'm aware of but it's been awhile since I looked at what the Accessory Terminal all has for outputs.

I do see what with more and more monitors having their own DSP, a need for digital monitor outputs is rising.

If you or anybody is serious about it, it wouldn't hurt to email Crane Song about it.
Old 30th April 2018
  #12
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JP__'s Avatar
 
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Isnt the DSP board remote contrable per MID?n This way you can develope a own little box like Grimm, RME etc does.

Regarding digital MCs KS Digital comes to my mind too.
Old 30th April 2018 | Show parent
  #13
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Magnus Lindberg's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Another recommendation for Crookwood here.
Old 30th April 2018 | Show parent
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe ➑️
Just trying to help you don't have to SHOUT! I am sure someone like Crookwood could make you what you want.
a lot of monitor controllers can do a lot that i don't need, but not exactly what I need. i tried to be clear, but your answer showed me that i didn't succeed.
so I tried to make it clear exactly what I need. forgive me if you understood it as 'yelling at yourself' & thank you for your well-meant answer
Old 30th April 2018 | Show parent
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ ➑️
Isnt the DSP board remote contrable per MID?n This way you can develope a own little box like Grimm, RME etc does.

Regarding digital MCs KS Digital comes to my mind too.
thanks, i already thought of that, but i am looking for a universal solution that is comfortable and easy to use. a 'little box' that can be hung between the digital output of the DAW and the digital input of the monitoring and maybe offers some amenities like an additional output for a second monitoring, headphone output, mono etc.

the ks digital solution and the avocet are too complex units who offer many possibilities i don't need
Old 30th April 2018 | Show parent
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus Lindberg ➑️
Another recommendation for Crookwood here.
i will check! they have such a small and 'digital only' solution?
Old 30th April 2018 | Show parent
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin P. ➑️
Have you looked at the Dangerous Source? It seems to at least come very close to your requirements.

I may get one for my B room but for now I'm using a Black Lion Audio modded Apollo Twin MKII. The Black Lion mod adds a digital output that isn't a stock feature which is very useful. AFAIK, the digital output always mirrors the main monitor output.

One or both of these together seem like a good solution until I can justify an Avocet in BOTH rooms.
i will check. you are sure it have the 'simple and stright' possibility digital in - digital leveling - digital out?
Old 30th April 2018 | Show parent
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teebaum ➑️
i will check. you are sure it have the 'simple and stright' possibility digital in - digital leveling - digital out?
I can't be 100% sure as I haven't spent much time with it but certainly the UA Console app should offer some options.

The Dangerous Source has AES and USB in as well as some analog inputs and an AES digital out/pass-through but I'm told it doesn't come with any mixer software so I'm not sure about the digital leveling there.
Old 30th April 2018
  #19
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Last year I've bough another BMC-2 unit from eBay (120GBP).. I don't think, it would be so big problem to find another used unit nowadays, if you give it some time and regularly seek at used market..
I've though about alternatives back then, but other solutions are either bulky or too expensive, plus I really like BMC-2 desktop user interface with presets and handy M/S monitoring functions. So I still think, it makes some sense to get used TC units.

With regards to some other way, how to control volume.. When source is RME interface, you can use their ARC to adjust volume level at TotalMix level. Some of their newer interfaces (802, UFXII, UFX+) has an option to use ARC directly connected to external interface (eg. without computer).
In the case of mentioned Genelec systems, it's possible to use their proprietary GLM volume controller.

Finally, there are also miniDSP boxes with AES I/O. I comes at few different flavors, depending on firmware features.. (like Dirac option).
OpenDRC : OpenDRC-DI
It seemed to be quite nice box with few handy processing options (FIR, IIR filters etc.), however as I've got that, whole unit is fixed at either 48 or 96k depending on used DSP plugin, visually it looks from some images of their corresponding DIY modules, likely there is single oscillator for 48k based rates and there is ASRC for digital inputs (can accept anything rates up to 216k). If you don't mind that for your application, it could be also the way.. front panel knob can adjust master volume, plus there is also IR sensor for remotes.

Michal
Old 30th April 2018 | Show parent
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teebaum ➑️
i will check! they have such a small and 'digital only' solution?
I think they probably do - the Crookwood stuff is all very modular/card based, so I imagine you could onfigure a system with only the digital cards.
Old 30th April 2018
  #21
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This looks like the Crookwood unit you'd want - notice the option for "digital speaker output" - C2 Stereo digital crosspoint/ monitor controller | Crookwood
Old 30th April 2018
  #22
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Earcatcher's Avatar
 
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I think you should talk to Fried Reim from Lake People. He has all the tech and knowledge to make one. His DACs already have excellent digital volume control under a rotary knob, with smart slicing of the signal, and it would probably be simple for him to put all your wishes into one box at a reasonable price point. Also see this: DAT RS 05 - violectric.de It is halfway your full wish list.
Old 30th April 2018 | Show parent
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher ➑️
I think you should talk to Fried Reim from Lake People. He has all the tech and knowledge to make one. His DACs already have excellent digital volume control under a rotary knob, with smart slicing of the signal, and it would probably be simple for him to put all your wishes into one box at a reasonable price point. Also see this: DAT RS 05 - violectric.de It is halfway your full wish list.
great ideas, thank you!
RS 5 comes nearest to my wishes.
Old 30th April 2018 | Show parent
  #24
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teebaum's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr ➑️
Last year I've bough another BMC-2 unit from eBay (120GBP).. I don't think, it would be so big problem to find another used unit nowadays, if you give it some time and regularly seek at used market..
I've though about alternatives back then, but other solutions are either bulky or too expensive, plus I really like BMC-2 desktop user interface with presets and handy M/S monitoring functions. So I still think, it makes some sense to get used TC units.

With regards to some other way, how to control volume.. When source is RME interface, you can use their ARC to adjust volume level at TotalMix level. Some of their newer interfaces (802, UFXII, UFX+) has an option to use ARC directly connected to external interface (eg. without computer).
In the case of mentioned Genelec systems, it's possible to use their proprietary GLM volume controller.

Finally, there are also miniDSP boxes with AES I/O. I comes at few different flavors, depending on firmware features.. (like Dirac option).
OpenDRC : OpenDRC-DI
It seemed to be quite nice box with few handy processing options (FIR, IIR filters etc.), however as I've got that, whole unit is fixed at either 48 or 96k depending on used DSP plugin, visually it looks from some images of their corresponding DIY modules, likely there is single oscillator for 48k based rates and there is ASRC for digital inputs (can accept anything rates up to 216k). If you don't mind that for your application, it could be also the way.. front panel knob can adjust master volume, plus there is also IR sensor for remotes.

Michal
very good ideas, thanks!
unfortunately i see now, the race on the last bmc-2's has already started, the offers on ebay exceed the new price sometimes by several times

Last edited by teebaum; 30th April 2018 at 05:45 PM..
Old 30th April 2018 | Show parent
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippocratic Mastering ➑️
I think they probably do - the Crookwood stuff is all very modular/card based, so I imagine you could onfigure a system with only the digital cards.
the Crookwood solution is for my needs unfortunately massively oversized
Old 30th April 2018
  #26
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has someone experience with the Audient id22?
could this unit be configured the way i need it?
is the 'big knob' a audio potentiometer or can be configured to change the level of the sp/dif output?

Last edited by teebaum; 30th April 2018 at 08:38 PM..
Old 30th April 2018
  #27
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by teebaum ➑️
very good ideas, thanks!
unfortunately i see now, the race on the last bmc-2's has already started, the offers on ebay exceed the new price sometimes by several times
Hmm, maybe you're true..
On the other hand it also took me about two or three months, until I found something reasonable (in EU to avoid expensive shipping and customs).. Sometimes those can be also seen at various sites with hi-fi second-hand gear.
So maybe you'll also have luck with that.
Personally, even for price like new one, if it would be in good condition, it'd still consider that, because it has no direct alternative IMO at its category.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teebaum ➑️
has someone experience with the Audient id22?
could this unit be configured the way i need it?
is the 'big knob' a audio potentiometer or can be configured to change the level of the sp/dif output?
Honestly, I also considered that and compared it to BMC, before looking for used unit.

I've played with ID22 couple years ago (near its launch), but I believe, it's possible. The knob, DIM and associated monitoring controls affected a bus called Main mix, which you can then route to any pair of outputs analog or digital.
They've issued couple of firmware releases, which affected various functions at monitoring section, so maybe someone with last firmware might confirm that.
From my point of view, there's another glitch, because iD22 doesn't have real standalone mode without computer, there's no memory for settings in the unit. All routing and level setup is stored at computer and recalled only after driver and mix software initialization. As I've read some prelim. notes about forthcoming iD44, they would add the memory there.
Also its optical digital I/Os would be quite annoying for such purpose, because I'd need to convert main DAW signal back and forth using another powered adapter(s).. and compared to coax, which is possible to easily convert to AES3 or AES3id using appropriate transformer, optical SPDIF outs are usually worst in terms of jitter performance (actual outcome of course depends on POF cable length and rejection capabilities of downstream D/A device).

Final aspect for me was, I know BMC very well, I like the response of its knob, volume adjustment is properly dithered (haven't tested others), it properly recalls, which makes it perfect device for the purpose. So that's why I tried to find another one, when I found, it's close to its EOL.

Michal
Old 1st May 2018
  #28
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My further curiosity lead me to RME ADI-2 Pro.. I've checked its manual and you can route processed main output to all digital outs (assuming also with volume adjustment in PCM mode, because in DSD mode, volume control is done at D/A chip outside of main DSP).
https://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi2pro_e.pdf (p. 26 option Dig. Out Source).

Besides encoders there it has also four assignable keys, which could be set for instance to mute or mono.
It's certainly much more expensive than BMC and it might seem to be wasteful to use such converter just for monitoring, but if you found also other possible uses for it (high quality HP amp with own converter and EQ.. auxiliary USB playback from the computer.. etc), maybe it might be worth of test.

Michal
Old 1st May 2018 | Show parent
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin P. ➑️
Have you looked at the Dangerous Source? It seems to at least come very close to your requirements.
i checked the features. the digital output is only a loop thru, so it didn't work for me.
Old 1st May 2018
  #30
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
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Have a look at this m905 reference monitor controller with the new firmware update.

You could also DIY one yourself if you are interested. Lots of info on the WWW. FWIW
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