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Gyraf G23
Old 9th May 2020 | Show parent
  #211
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SmoothTone's Avatar
 
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmwolf ➡️
So +18 dBu is the lowest pro audio signal I could choose for the Hilo’s trim for mastering, and as long as I am running a dynamic signal that isn’t overly compressed (example - a track at -13 LUFS in WaveLab) then +18dBu should be a cool signal for gain staging with the Gyraf G23-S?
Yep, +18dBu. I generally like to send program out to the G23 at about -18LUFS or lower.

It's good to experiment and find the sweet spot for each mix. Reaper makes it super easy to inversely link gains so when you turn the send channel down/up the receive channel moves in the opposite direction. This allows you to change the level going through the analogue chain but maintain unity so you can judge the effect accurately. BlueCat's (free) gain plugins can do this also.
Old 9th May 2020 | Show parent
  #212
Gear Maniac
 
Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothTone ➡️
Yep, +18dBu. I generally like to send program out to the G23 at about -18LUFS or lower.

It's good to experiment and find the sweet spot for each mix. Reaper makes it super easy to inversely link gains so when you turn the send channel down/up the receive channel moves in the opposite direction. This allows you to change the level going through the analogue chain but maintain unity so you can judge the effect accurately. BlueCat's (free) gain plugins can do this also.
Ah I do realize I slip up. In the limiting stage I try to raise levels so the final master is around -15 to 13 LUFS (most of the time not even hitting the limiter, if I do -0.5db at most.) But for the rest of my chain audio is usually lower. Perfect! My G23 will ship next week and I have two big projects lined up so it will be a fun learning time
Old 9th May 2020 | Show parent
  #213
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SmoothTone's Avatar
 
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmwolf ➡️
My G23 will ship next week and I have two big projects lined up so it will be a fun learning time
Enjoy it!
Old 10th May 2020 | Show parent
  #214
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macc's Avatar
 
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3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gyraf ➡️
Try it yourself - you may be surprised how much perceived difference there is to just about any type of analogue outboard processing as a function of the chosen operating levels (just make sure to listen back in corrected levels for comparison off course :-) ). I've had quite a few reporting back that the non-gyraf part of an analogue chain suddenly felt more right after re-setting levels to slightly more conservative ones..
Pretty sure I've said this to you before but any time I've STFU and done 'what Jakob said', things got better.

It's almost as if you know what you're doing.
Old 10th May 2020 | Show parent
  #215
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macc's Avatar
 
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3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothTone ➡️
I just had Gustav at GOLY make me a parallel insert box for my Michelangelo with switchable gain return compensation on the one knob so I can drive it exactly how I want. Combined with an optional MS matrix it's a really creative tool. I'm pretty stoked with it.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-UtDKuh1ZS/

I'm sure if you contacted Gustav he could do what you want for a reasonable price. Especially since I've paid for the R&D for you... You're welcome!

Reaper makes it pretty seamless though, sacrilege not withstanding.
Almost missed this!

I should have known that was you, haha. Knew Gustav was doing something along those lines, but I didn't know which evil mastermind it was...

I may ask Gustav, but he's just done a different custom unit for me and is modding my MS4K so I might give him a break, the poor fecker
Old 24th August 2020
  #216
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Verified Member
The more I use my G23-S, the more I think it’s less an EQ and more an energy/phase device. The baxandall curves just shape and enhance energy in a way that it doesn’t even feel like there’s a decibel change happening, music just sounds better.

Owning more equipment may be fun, but I’ve been using EQuilibrium for pre-compressor shaping to remove any junk that I don’t want to compress, and then the G23-S post-compressor to change the tonality and it’s a perfect workflow.
Old 8th September 2020 | Show parent
  #217
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmwolf ➡️
The more I use my G23-S, the more I think it’s less an EQ and more an energy/phase device. The baxandall curves just shape and enhance energy in a way that it doesn’t even feel like there’s a decibel change happening, music just sounds better.

Owning more equipment may be fun, but I’ve been using EQuilibrium for pre-compressor shaping to remove any junk that I don’t want to compress, and then the G23-S post-compressor to change the tonality and it’s a perfect workflow.
What compressor do you pair it with?
Old 8th September 2020 | Show parent
  #218
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Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxtone ➡️
What compressor do you pair it with?
Kotelnikov run in insane mode, using a high powered computer to handle the real time processing
Old 16th September 2020 | Show parent
  #219
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Just out of curiosity, does anyone have frequency graphs or charts of this unit? Or even know which frequencies are selectable for the high and low shelves, and the mid band?
Old 16th September 2020 | Show parent
  #220
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Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by delongej26 ➡️
Just out of curiosity, does anyone have frequency graphs or charts of this unit? Or even know which frequencies are selectable for the high and low shelves, and the mid band?
Someone posted them elsewhere

I believe the mid bands are like 400-800-2000, and low bands are around 60-125-250, but don’t quote me.

Honestly I save the specific frequency stuff for EQuilibrium with the spectrum analyzer going on in the background. My G23 is a meditation device. The bands are so broad it’s not really important to know, you hear if it works for the track immediately. Knowing the frequencies is useless trivia rather than important data.
Old 16th September 2020 | Show parent
  #221
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmwolf ➡️
Someone posted them elsewhere

I believe the mid bands are like 400-800-2000, and low bands are around 60-125-250, but don’t quote me.

Honestly I save the specific frequency stuff for EQuilibrium with the spectrum analyzer going on in the background. My G23 is a meditation device. The bands are so broad it’s not really important to know, you hear if it works for the track immediately. Knowing the frequencies is useless trivia rather than important data.
Hmm any link that that would be great, couldn't find anything.

And that's what i figured. I surprised there isn't more love for a unit like this outside of the mastering realm. I suppose the tilt feature is more of a master draw. However, can't see why this wouldn't be a great mixing/tracking device except for perhaps the limited frequency selection. I imagine this unit would be lovely for a couple db high shelf on ribbons mics on the way in, or general shelving come mix time.
Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #222
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gyraf's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
It's notoriously hard to quanti-specify shelving filters in a meaningful manner: There's neither a center frequency, nor a fixed 3dB point to aim at. The freq's on low and high are probably best described by their half-power frequencies when control is maxed, i.e. the frequency where the filter reaches half it's maximum effect when turned all way up or down.

Highs can thus be described as 1K-3K-12K, Lows as 50-90-200.

Mids are off course much easier specify'able as they're bells: 400-800-2K - just not with equal boost'cut range or Q

No, we didn't make marketing plots of the response, because visually it gets unpleasing bordering the ugly. :-)

No frequencies, boost/cut amounts, interaction or slopes were decided per chance or theoretically. Everything in here is a result of thorough tests, alterings and and experiments, aesthetic decisions galore. No emphasis whatsoever towards the technically/traditionally-right nor the visually pleasing in plotted curves.

It was and is a thing existing in audio, because of audio. No attempts were made to twist this after we realized how powerful a tool we had in good/nogood feedback from our test flight teams. The G23 is no more, no less, than an imprint or a cast of their preferred way of working

/Jakob E.
Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #223
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macc's Avatar
 
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3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gyraf ➡️
Highs can thus be described as 10K-30K-120K, Lows as 5-9-20
Fixed that for you
Old 19th September 2020
  #224
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Hello everyone,

I’m about to order Gyraf G23-S, and since I have Dangerous Bax, wonder if anyone completely replaced D Bax with G23-S, or you kept both?

Thanks
Old 19th September 2020 | Show parent
  #225
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Verified Member
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solic ➡️
Hello everyone,

I’m about to order Gyraf G23-S, and since I have Dangerous Bax, wonder if anyone completely replaced D Bax with G23-S, or you kept both?

Thanks
Not the same thing, very different sonic.
Old 20th September 2020
  #226
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SmoothTone's Avatar
 
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🎧 5 years
I agree that they sound different, but I wouldn't want both in my rack (but I'm a small chain kinda guy).

The Bax HPF is one of the best I've heard, so if you use that a lot it might be worth hanging onto.

Last edited by SmoothTone; 20th September 2020 at 03:30 AM.. Reason: I can't help it
Old 20th September 2020
  #227
Gear Maniac
 
Verified Member
Unrelated to the BAX talk, but is the G23 passive? For both the EQ and tilt filter
Old 20th September 2020
  #228
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Thank you Saxnscratch, and SmoothTone,

I’ll definitely compare them and make decision. I was hoping to sell D Bax and get Gyraf G24. And now, G14-S is coming 🤦‍♂️
Old 3rd October 2020
  #229
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B Elgin's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solic ➡️
Hello everyone,

I’m about to order Gyraf G23-S, and since I have Dangerous Bax, wonder if anyone completely replaced D Bax with G23-S, or you kept both?

Thanks
I tested a BAX and had them both together briefly. As mentioned they're both quite different in tone and function. I found myself mostly liking the HP/LP, and liking the 84Hz boost on the mid channel with some attenuation on the side, or occasionally some high boost on the side channel and the pass filters in. The two can definitely can be used well together, although I didn't end up buying a BAX.

About the G23-S in general and frequencies/shaping;

FWIW I checked mine a few times via analyzer when I first got it, and again when trying to explain it to a colleague (who subsequently bought one almost immediately) but never found it important to remember the results - with the notable exception of being impressed with the channel matching.

It's broad and gentle and the workflow is intuitive and refreshing.

After using mine for the past year or so, I tend to think of the controls like this:

Low I - can tirm down sub/rumble
Low II - great general low reducer
Low III - adds big round weight on thin mixes or stuff that doesn't need a modern tight and firm bottom, worth trying if using positive tilt too.

Mid I - often cleans up mud well, don't remember adding here
Mid II - can reduce congestion or add substance
Mid III - de-harsher or inoffensive 2k-ish pusher

High I - can calm down over-edgy presence
High II - nice in tube mode for a lift when the whole song doesn't want tilting
High III - comfortable top lift or good for reigning things in with stronger positive tilts.

Tilt - Tilts. Really though it does a great job at this, and I've done rides with it since it's so stealthy and fun to turn.

Trim - tasty gain, which for some reason I never used to drive the subsequent chain much until recently.

I just moved mine to a separate mastering room but previously often used it on the stereo bus for mix projects and yes, it works great there too. I mainly used the high shelving II / III positions to boost and tube circuit tone (subtly sweet powdered sugar glow?) when that helped, and the lows on softer material.

The high boosts did pleasant things to cymbals and non-sibilant vocals on the mixbus, at least for my taste, and I wouldn't be surprised it it opened ribbon mics in a great way too. I bet it would work as a fun vocal or bass shaper when tracking or mixing. I guess most people perceive broad strokes stereo-ganged tools a mastering-centric. Gyraf doesn't really push toward specific applications with marketing or naming. Or do much marketing in general AFAIK, although the enthusiastic online recommendations and technical award nominations certainly speak to the quality of their tools.
Old 4th October 2020 | Show parent
  #230
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by B Elgin ➡️
I tested a BAX and had them both together briefly. As mentioned they're both quite different in tone and function. I found myself mostly liking the HP/LP, and liking the 84Hz boost on the mid channel with some attenuation on the side, or occasionally some high boost on the side channel and the pass filters in. The two can definitely can be used well together, although I didn't end up buying a BAX.

About the G23-S in general and frequencies/shaping;

FWIW I checked mine a few times via analyzer when I first got it, and again when trying to explain it to a colleague (who subsequently bought one almost immediately) but never found it important to remember the results - with the notable exception of being impressed with the channel matching.

It's broad and gentle and the workflow is intuitive and refreshing.

After using mine for the past year or so, I tend to think of the controls like this:

Low I - can tirm down sub/rumble
Low II - great general low reducer
Low III - adds big round weight on thin mixes or stuff that doesn't need a modern tight and firm bottom, worth trying if using positive tilt too.

Mid I - often cleans up mud well, don't remember adding here
Mid II - can reduce congestion or add substance
Mid III - de-harsher or inoffensive 2k-ish pusher

High I - can calm down over-edgy presence
High II - nice in tube mode for a lift when the whole song doesn't want tilting
High III - comfortable top lift or good for reigning things in with stronger positive tilts.

Tilt - Tilts. Really though it does a great job at this, and I've done rides with it since it's so stealthy and fun to turn.

Trim - tasty gain, which for some reason I never used to drive the subsequent chain much until recently.

I just moved mine to a separate mastering room but previously often used it on the stereo bus for mix projects and yes, it works great there too. I mainly used the high shelving II / III positions to boost and tube circuit tone (subtly sweet powdered sugar glow?) when that helped, and the lows on softer material.

The high boosts did pleasant things to cymbals and non-sibilant vocals on the mixbus, at least for my taste, and I wouldn't be surprised it it opened ribbon mics in a great way too. I bet it would work as a fun vocal or bass shaper when tracking or mixing. I guess most people perceive broad strokes stereo-ganged tools a mastering-centric. Gyraf doesn't really push toward specific applications with marketing or naming. Or do much marketing in general AFAIK, although the enthusiastic online recommendations and technical award nominations certainly speak to the quality of their tools.
This is amazing review, thank you so much for sharing your experience. Mine should arrive next week. I’ll definitely use your tips for low, mid, and high. Thanks again B Elgin.
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #231
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macc's Avatar
 
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3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
That review is absolutely spot on
Old 7th October 2020 | Show parent
  #232
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B Elgin's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solic ➡️
This is amazing review, thank you so much for sharing your experience. Mine should arrive next week. I’ll definitely use your tips for low, mid, and high. Thanks again B Elgin.
You're welcome, do enjoy and share feedback when you've had a chance to get familiar with it - I'm sure you'll find your own ways of using it that compliment your own gear and working habits.


Quote:
Originally Posted by macc
That review is absolutely spot on
Cheers! You and Dan got my pretty intrigued with the initial G23 release, and in hindsight I was fortunate to need to hold off on purchasing for a while. When my budget reappeared Jakob began shipping the -S version.
Old 4th December 2020 | Show parent
  #233
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
I’m on the fence between a Hendyamps MA and a Gyraf g23-s. This will be my first piece of hardware. I really want a color piece to contrast working ITB. I’ve read all the threads about these 2. Any specific opinions on either would be helpful. Thanks in advance.
Old 4th December 2020
  #234
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🎧 5 years
For colour, I would go MA. It has a much broader range of use, especially if you're not afraid to use the calibration controls.
Old 4th December 2020 | Show parent
  #235
Gear Maniac
 
Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwojtysiak ➡️
I’m on the fence between a Hendyamps MA and a Gyraf g23-s. This will be my first piece of hardware. I really want a color piece to contrast working ITB. I’ve read all the threads about these 2. Any specific opinions on either would be helpful. Thanks in advance.
If you’re wanting tube saturation/EQ, go with the Hendyamps. If you want multiple EQ options that greatly expand your tonal balancing, go G23. The tube section of the G23 is like a tape emulator more than tube saturation - it provides some softening and glow, but nothing that stands out as “tube”
Old 4 weeks ago
  #236
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🎧 10 years
Just picked one of these up, really fantastic unit, very musical. Too fresh to it to make any other judgements but I intend to use it when tracking as well as when mixing.
Old 4 days ago
  #237
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___GLM___'s Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
becoming a big GYRAF fan, I just ordered the Gyraf tilt today. Very curious how it will work in my setup and in general.
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