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How to get rid of Intersample Peaks
Old 6th May 2014
  #1
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
How to get rid of Intersample Peaks

Hi! What usually causes intersample peaks? And how can i get rid of it (without using ozone)?
Old 7th May 2014
  #2
Tokyo Dawn Labs
 
FabienTDR's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas Bykowski ➑️
Hi! What usually causes intersample peaks?
The nature of digital audio, really. The "peaks" you see in a digital signal do not represent the true peaks. Both do not correlate.

The Shannon/Nyquist theorem explains such a signal path:

analogue signal -> band-limiting (low pass) -> digital storage -> band-limiting (low pass) -> analogue signal

You can't cut half of the theorem ("visual inspection of the digital storage") and expect useful results. Audio is what comes out of the DA. The storage form is a highly compressed version of the analogue waveform, visual inspection is almost pointless. Thus, max-peak of the digital signal doesn't give any reliable info about the true max peak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas Bykowski ➑️
And how can i get rid of it (without using ozone)?
A. Headroom.

B. Oversampled limiting gives better control over the true waveform (which obviously sounds more musical as well ).

C. Slower (releasing) forms of dynamics control generally work better.
Old 7th May 2014 | Show parent
  #3
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Thanks for the helpful answer Fabien! Is that why a lot of mastering engineers lower the final output to -0.3db to prevent intersample peaks?
Old 7th May 2014
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Simon Morrison's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
A good True Peak limiter will prevent ISPs, and provide precise control of the output level.

NuGen Audio ISL and Flux Elixir are both excellent True Peak limiters.

Leaving a small amount of headroom in the master will prevent clipping and ISPs when resampling or converting formats.
Old 8th May 2014 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Thank you Simon, i'll check them out!
Old 9th May 2014
  #6
Deleted 691ca21
Guest
Voxengo Elephant limiter stops 99.9% of ISPs when set to 4x over-sampling, according to my two most sensitive ISP meters (RME Digicheck and iZotope RX3).
Old 9th May 2014 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Good news! I'm a fan of Elephant, but it still would be nice if there was a technique get rid of ISPs without using a limiter.
Old 9th May 2014 | Show parent
  #8
Lives for gear
 
stardustmedia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas Bykowski ➑️
Good news! I'm a fan of Elephant, but it still would be nice if there was a technique get rid of ISPs without using a limiter.
Yes, indeed. I'd also like to know if there are any other techniques besides enough headroom.
Old 9th May 2014
  #9
Deleted 691ca21
Guest
I don't think so, you are talking about the level of a track, which is exactly what limiters are designed to work on! You don't have to smash it, 0.0dB input, 0.0dB output (or -0.3dB for the conservative), with conservative levels to begin with, and oversampling switched on, and there you have it! If you're talking about tracking/recording or mixing, then you shouldn't really be anywhere near 0.0dB FS anyway.
Old 9th May 2014 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Ok i see. Do anyone know how well the L2 stops ISPs?

EDIT: Tested it myself, didn't do well..
Old 9th May 2014
  #11
Lives for gear
 
stinkyfingers's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
work at 192k or higher and never downsample
Old 9th May 2014
  #12
Deleted 691ca21
Guest
Just don't go too near zero (tracking, mixing or mastering), and you'll never have to worry about it.
Old 9th May 2014
  #13
Tokyo Dawn Labs
 
FabienTDR's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Also, don't be too strict with the matter. Analogue audio has no on/off clipping behaviour, it can perfectly tolerate short overloads. IMHO, the great benefit about "true waveform" dynamics control is not really the ISP outcome, but the better sonic result. All non-oversampled limiters produce incredible amounts of aliasing both directly and most of all in the control path. In fact, they are radically undersampled if they don't run at least at 4-8 times the audio sample rate.

Really, don't worry too much about ISP. Analogue can handle them without much surprises.
Old 9th June 2014
  #14
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
You would be surprised how many commercial releases have ISPs.

L2 doesn't stop ISPs. Using Ozone's prevent option seems to add deeper limiting to the signal. My best advice would be to man up and drop the ceiling to a point where there is enough room to prevent them from hitting full scale.
Old 9th June 2014
  #15
Deleted 691ca21
Guest
Or use Elephant's EL-4 algorithm with 8 times oversampling. If you like, you can set the ceiling to 0.00 and get no overs and no ISPs, no matter how hard you hit it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossd25 ➑️
You would be surprised how many commercial releases have ISPs.
I wouldn't, cos I see them all the time!
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