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Do you record and mix immediately the rhytmic section and the arrangement?
Old 11th March 2014
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
Floydpaint2000m's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Do you record and mix immediately the rhytmic section and the arrangement?

Sometimes happen that when arrive to mix the second and third guitar (solo guitar or arpeggio guitar) i understand that the sound recorded is wrong.
So i ask you:
do you rec every instrument and every part in one time or: record all the rymthic part mix that and after choose the arrangiament sound of the guitar of the key and of the other instrument?
Let me know

P.s.: for example i know that Wagner record and mix - record and mix. After when he finish to record give the fine tune but the big things was just made before...
Let me know
Old 11th March 2014
  #2
Lives for gear
 
frans's Avatar
 
10 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
That's a discussion I had with the guitar player in a metal band. I was for recording the whole band in the same room at the same time. He was for recording one after the other.
Here's why: everything together you have to make it work together, the volume level of each, the sound of each, the arrangement and interaction. But you need 10 times as much gear, a big room and you have to know what you do. You need lots of experience to judge what will work and what won't work. You need a band that can play to a certain standard of performance.
He said it's less work to do everything in steps. When a player ****s up, it doesn't affect the rest of the tracks. You need less equipment. (I would say, you can dumb it down, cheap it down, size it down) Then he said that they did run into the situtation a lot that sounds wouldn't fit together in a mix. Haha. Well, you COULD record things one after the other, but you still NEED the experience what does work and what doesn't. Which is a skill you rarely can train in less than a few years. Which, playing music and writing music and having a job and pay the rent wouldn't leave that much time for a specialized skill like that. So in nearly all cases a band would profit and SAVE MONEY getting outside help.
Old 11th March 2014
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
Floydpaint2000m's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Ok thank you but maybe i don't write vary well...
I ask if you prefer record drum bass e rhytmi guita and STOP... So you can MIX those tracks and after and onlyo after record the remain trakc for chosse the sound on the rough mix?
Or you record DRUM - BASS - rytmh guitar - solo guitar - arrangement guitar arpeggio guitar key and AFTER mix all ?
I try to simplify:
record - mix - record - mix

or
record record record and after MIX all?
Old 11th March 2014
  #4
Lives for gear
 
frans's Avatar
 
10 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I understand you all the same - my usual method is even simpler: record it like you would have mixed it. Record it so the recorded track sounds 90% as it should sound mixed. I'd like to record it 100% as it would sound mixed but I'm not good enough ;-)
So you record, stop, listen: you hear something very close to a mix. This means decide NOW not later what to do. I think it saves time and makes for a better foundation to build overdubs on. It just takes more experience and more gear. Does that help you? I think we work along the same direction. If you record everything in one session or the fundamentals and build it from there, it's the same process, to judge the tracks not each after the other but together, as a whole. The mix will be (hopefully...) a whole and not just a few tracks running along each other.
Old 11th March 2014
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
Floydpaint2000m's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Ok thanks.
Old 11th March 2014 | Show parent
  #6
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floydpaint2000m ➑️
Ok thank you but maybe i don't write vary well...
I ask if you prefer record drum bass e rhytmi guita and STOP... So you can MIX those tracks and after and onlyo after record the remain trakc for chosse the sound on the rough mix?
Or you record DRUM - BASS - rytmh guitar - solo guitar - arrangement guitar arpeggio guitar key and AFTER mix all ?
I try to simplify:
record - mix - record - mix

or
record record record and after MIX all?
I would aim to mix the production. If the production isn't complete, then I don't really start the mix.

There's no other way if you're sending parts out to someone else to mix of course.

This of course isn't a hard and fast rule - quite often artists add in parts after a mix has been started - but it's the ideal.

In practice, elements of the rough mix survive to the final, if working ITB.

If you're working OTB, you don't really have any choice unless you're recording/mixing one track at a time. Most of the time on a project you'll track a project/mix a project.
Old 11th March 2014
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Xander's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I would say to record everything first, and mix it after recording is completely finished.

The problem with mixing while recording is that you do not have all of the elements yet, so how are you supposed to mix it properly? If you go that route, you will end up doing a lot more work, and in my experience, your end result will not be nearly as solid as if you recorded everything first and mixed it all afterwards.

I prefer to be in a different mindset when I am mixing. I want every part right in front of me so I know how it all fits together. Without the lead guitar, how am I supposed to know how to mix the rhythm guitar? And without the bass, how am I supposed to know how to mix the drums? The song is made up of all the instruments together, and your end result will suffer if you continually pile on one instrument at a time to a mix.
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floydpaint2000m ➑️
I ask if you prefer record drum bass e rhytmi guita and STOP... So you can MIX those tracks and after and onlyo after record the remain trakc for chosse the sound on the rough mix?
no, I would never work that way as long as I have tracks. Way back when I worked with four and eight track tape decks I would Have To pre-mix the rhythm section simply in order to create room on the tape for other instruments. The difficulty here is that even if you "know" what is coming later, the proportions and levels that "sound good" when it is just guitar bass and drums, may sound "bad" when lots of other instruments are added on top.

I really like to approach the mix as: "now we are done tracking". Then I rub my hands together and say: "now it is time to mix!". I enjoy that moment, that feeling of moving into a 'new phase' with the project. The one thing I hate is when a singer comes in with a pre-mixed "TV track" and all I get to do is blend his voice with a track I have no control over. So I would never deliberately create such a situation for myself!

Some people do a technique where they "mix as they go", but this is a little different from the Stop and Go thing you describe. There are not clear cut "stages" where there is mixing vs recording. It's just that mixing always ongoing. While a musician is performing/recording, they might be spending some time adjusting the EQs and reverbs and compressors on the other instruments.

For my own part, I prefer to concentrate on the performance during tracking, even if I get a little "bored" because I have no knobs to turn during the take. Besides, whenever I "mix as I go", I end up redoing things again and again because the requirements keep changing.

The stop and go methodology you describe does not make much sense to me. I don't know who "Wagner" is, though I am sure he records turn out great. People have different ways of working, and I am not saying his method is 'wrong', but I would suspect that his way is much less common than some others.
Old 12th March 2014
  #9
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Before you even start recording you should have an idea of how you want the final mix to sound. Then when you track it's a simple matter of making sure that what you record sounds as close as possible to what you envisioned. Ideally when you're done tracking you should be able to pull up the faders, do some quick level adjustments, and hear something that's at least in the ballpark of what you want. After that it's simply a matter of fine tuning.

Think of the sound of each instrument as a sculptor thinks of the solid block of granite before him. He doesn't try to carve the entire detailed sculpture at once; instead he starts by quickly removing the large chunks that he knows he doesn't want. Only then, after he has something in the rough shape of what he's sculpting, does he begin the finer work.

Likewise, you shouldn't try to construct the entire mix all at once, whether during tracking or after. Instead, start by getting things in the rough shape that you want them (through mic placement and selective use of EQ/filtering and/or compression during tracking), and then work on the finer details in the mix phase.

Yes, in theory you could follow the same approach entirely in the post-tracking phase. The reasons to make those broad decisions during tracking rather than saving everything until afterwards are a) either way you're making decisions about how you're going to record each instrument, so those decisions might as well serve to work toward the sound you want to end up with, and b) by making intelligent decisions early on in the process you are better able to change directions if something clearly isn't going to work, or if the sound of the early tracks inspires you to go in a different direction than you initially planned.
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Unclenny's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➑️
I really like to approach the mix as: "now we are done tracking". Then I rub my hands together and say: "now it is time to mix!".
I know there are a bunch of one-trackers out there reading this. I am one.

I need to have my tracks start to mesh as they get recorded so I definitely set up the rhythmic elements first and get them as tight as possible. It helps me with the rest of the instruments to have some mix cohesion and a good groove going on as my arrangement evolves and I bring them in.

I'll tend to listen to the project a number of times at whatever stage it is at and envision what I want to do next so I rough mix as I go.

But I always get to that place referenced above where it's time to just mix and I get that same feeling.

Is this fun...or what?
Old 12th March 2014
  #11
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
....even if you pre mix lot's of stems to have an easier final mix session, you better have the option at any time to get back to each and all single recordings you made....
and it's a good thing to record the rhythm group at once.....maybe even while playing along with all the others....but then overdubbing one by one takes you beyond.....
having the option to capture a best of all takes for the single instrument....
layering instruments....
a studio is an instrument of it's own....use it....
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