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Mic for Trombone
Old 24th January 2013
  #1
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Mic for Trombone

I am a trombone player with limited recording experience. I need to make audition recordings regularly and also like do some multi track stuff. I am looking for a good all around mic I can use with an audio interface like a focusrite 2i2. I want something that is pretty honest but warm. I was convinced I needed a condenser something like a studioprojects b1 but I have seen a lot of talk about ribon mics. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Old 24th January 2013
  #2
undercover coq
Guest
You're onto something with ribbon mics. But they can be quite fragile so wouldn't recommend that if you need to move around a lot.
As far as ribbon goes, Cascade make some good and cheap mics. Almost all cheap Chinese brands have QC issues...
In the dynamic department, check out the Beyerdynamic m88 with is as a tight cardioid pattern (could be handy if you're room is less than stellar). The sennheiser md421 is also a fine horn microphone
Old 24th January 2013
  #3
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
I was going to recommend an Apex 205 or 210, but you'd probably only want it after modification. If you're handy, like to tinker, brave, and don't mind risking wrecking the ribbon, then go for it. It should be pretty rewarding in the end.

Otherwise add the EV RE 20 to the other dynamic mics listed above.
Old 24th January 2013
  #4
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edva's Avatar
 
26 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
+1 on the RE 20. Good enough for Lawrence Welk (yeah, I'm serious), and not expensive.
Old 24th January 2013
  #5
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Bob Ross's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
E-V RE20 or Sennheiser MD441 have been my go-to 'bone mics for decades.

Royer 121 is a thing of beauty on the right horn player too.
Old 24th January 2013
  #6
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Thanks for all your quick answers. I forgot to mention I am on a pretty small budget. I figure if I invest money in a basic mic and the usb interface I can always upgrade to better mics ect as I learn more. I have always used handhelds like the zoom h2 ect as most of my musician colleagues do. I am ready to move onto something better as I also do some multi tracks of my arrangements. Thanks for your help. If you have any other advice like a good basic recording manuel please shoot your comments my way.


Matt
Old 24th January 2013
  #7
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Can anyone suggest something under 250 bucks. I am recording classical trombone mainly. I would like something that I can use to record trombone and piano and small chamber groups as well.
Old 24th January 2013 | Show parent
  #8
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RMJAZZ's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trmbtrmb ➑️
Can anyone suggest something under 250 bucks. I am recording classical trombone mainly. I would like something that I can use to record trombone and piano and small chamber groups as well.
SM57
Audix i5


Both $100 each. I personally prefer the Audix.

But I would not use dynamics to record piano or orchestra.......Just the trombone. Maybe try the Karma omni mics for piano and chamber orch.....I bet you could get a pair of those and one i5 all for under $250.
Old 24th January 2013
  #9
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turtlejon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Cad M179
Affordable, neutral, useful for almost any instrument or situation, every polar pattern for advanced mic techniques, 130$ usually
Very well regarded low cost mic.
Get a pair, or this and a dynamic
Old 24th January 2013
  #10
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Thanks for all the answers. Sorry I keep adding info. I guess what I am looking for is a good starting mic to hammer out some solo tracks just me playing trombone for some stuff I have to send off as audition material. A good value but something that could be added to later on with other quality mics as I experiment more with recording. Thanks again.
Old 24th January 2013
  #11
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Would the cascade be to specific as an all around mic or is it a good starting point?
Old 25th January 2013
  #12
Gear Addict
 
RoadToNever's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Maybe an EV ND468 (MD441 vibe)
Old 25th January 2013
  #13
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guitarboy94's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Shure KSM32 Neutral and sounds great on about any instrument.
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #14
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edva's Avatar
 
26 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trmbtrmb ➑️
Would the cascade be to specific as an all around mic or is it a good starting point?
Cascade (Fathead) is very dark sounding, little or no highs, and also is fig. 8. Sometimes this is good, sometimes not. I find them a bit too dark for brass, although ribbons in general do have a "natural" quality to the sound.
I'd look for a full range dynamic with a flat frequency response, like an RE20 or 441, or a more full frequency ribbon, maybe the Cascade VinJet or similar "long ribbon" design. Save up the money for a good mic, that you will be happy with, and can keep for a long time, rather than going through a succession of ultra-cheap mics, IMHO.
Old 25th January 2013
  #15
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celticrogues's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I would get a pair of small diaphragm condensers like the Line Audio CM3 or the Studio Projects C4. Set those up in an ORTF and you're good to go - will give you a great, natural recording of everything from solo trombone to chamber groups and orchestras.

A lot of these other suggestions would be great to record trombone I the context of a jazz or rock song, but IMHO for classical music a stereo pair is the way to go.

-Mike
Old 27th January 2013
  #16
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
EV RE27 or a beyerdynamic i52d work for us
Old 27th January 2013
  #17
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Actually get a pair of AKG214s and a stereo mounting bar. Those worked well for my trumpet and captured a lot of room noise, no artificial reverb needed
Old 27th January 2013
  #18
NJS
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
421 if you can afford it, or a 57. But this is coming from an experience done live not in the studio...
Old 27th January 2013
  #19
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
EV468 or 767 are good. Heil PR30/35/40 are good. M88 probably, but I never used one. The EV and Heil don't require powerful preamps.
Borrow an RE20, if you can. Very good.
Any Cascade (or similar) ribbon is good, but your preamp might not be powerful enough.
As a trumpeter, I would find a decent room (fairly large or treated) and put the mic 3-6 feet from the bell. I'm not a fan of close mic'ing brass.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #20
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trmbtrmb ➑️
I guess what I am looking for is a good starting mic to hammer out some solo tracks just me playing trombone for some stuff I have to send off as audition material. A good value but something that could be added to later on with other quality mics as I experiment more with recording.
My trombone-playing pro friend has used his EV RE-20 throughout his career both onstage and in the studio - a quality mic like this is probably going to last you 20+ years, you won't ever regret buying it and you won't need 'other quality mics' in the future.

I'd honestly encourage you to spend a bit more on your main mic now and invest in something like an EV RE-20. I know this is low-end, but if we're really only talking $200 for-now vs $400 for-life...?

Experiment with/invest in the rest of your recording set-up over time and improve your sound incrementally with experience and better gear, but you can't really 'add to' the basic sound of a mic which will hugely determine your tone from day one. And in this case - unlike, say, piano players - it's not like you have to spend a fortune to put the first piece of a high quality recording chain in place.
Old 27th January 2013
  #21
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
What makes the RE20 so good for trombones is that it's a fairly honest dynamic. It doesn't color your sound too much, but yet controls the brassyness well. There something about many EV mics tha they have sort of a natural compression to them, which brass needs. I also like that you can put them really close to your bell (if you need to) and have no/little boomyness from proximity affect. A very similar, but cheaper option are the RE 10/11/5/16 mics which are all essentially the same. I've been using the RE16 live and it's been working out well. Used you can find an RE10 for $100. You can find use RE20s for about $250. I did...3uses later it fell apart. Next time, new.....
Old 28th January 2013
  #22
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Thanks for all the help. I guess I should stress I am using this for classical recording, not jazz or rock. I need an honest sound. The New York Philharmonic in their last trombone audition prescreening posted mic and recording requirements:

"If possible use a Neumann KM 184 or 140 microphone; if this microphone is not available use a similar studio quality condenser microphone.

The microphone should be place approximately eight feet off the floor, six feet in front of the player, and pointed directly at the instrument. "


This is basically the kind of stuff I need to do. But I am not dropping that kind of money on a mic.

Thanks for your help.
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #23
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erosconpollo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trmbtrmb ➑️

"If possible use a Neumann KM 184 or 140 microphone; if this microphone is not available use a similar studio quality condenser microphone.
Oktava MK012 -- good enough as is, even better with some mods.
Old 28th January 2013
  #24
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Cheap LDC condensers are not usually very kind to brass. Expensive ones are not bad, but can be a bit bright. I have a (discontinued) Beyerdynamic Opus 83 (SDC) that is ok. For LDCs maybe take a look at the ADK mics. The S7C is voiced to be a tad dark, intentionally for brass, so it won't be too brittle. I hear their A6 condenser is good on instruments (been meaning to pick one up...new $200+, maybe used for $150?). The Odin from ADK is a modified S7 that allows you to switch the brightness to your preference--the "mellow" setting is the same as the S7C. Might be a good way to go. From what I hear, the ADKs are some of the best budget LDCs, but I have not used them myself.
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #25
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trmbtrmb ➑️
Can anyone suggest something under 250 bucks. I am recording classical trombone mainly. I would like something that I can use to record trombone and piano and small chamber groups as well.
You moved the goalposts from your original post about recording yourself for trombone auditions.

For recording yourself for trombone auditions, the several posts here for the RE20 make a lot of sense. If you don't like it, there's a good resale market for it.

I'm not sure whether to read your post about the audition requirements as absolute requirements or as a suggestion for how to go about making an audition recording. It may be that they want to hear your instrument played in a concert hall type setting.

There's a difference in how a recording will sound if you record something with a dynamic mic in a treated room (goal-avoid capture of the room) v. recording with condensor mics in a concert hall (goal-purposed capture of the instrument within the hall).

For recording trombone, piano and small chamber groups, then I think you move into different territory than a single RE20 is desirable. If you mean to record yourself or your friends in a concert hall, for that, a pair of Line Audio CM3's might possibly be the entry level mics that get any love in the Remote recording forum here. There's a waiting list to buy them til March as best I understand.

Treat yourself to this piano/bass studio recording with a pair of CM3's:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/7248575-post89.html
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #26
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edva's Avatar
 
26 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trmbtrmb ➑️
Thanks for all the help. I guess I should stress I am using this for classical recording, not jazz or rock. I need an honest sound. The New York Philharmonic in their last trombone audition prescreening posted mic and recording requirements:

"If possible use a Neumann KM 184 or 140 microphone; if this microphone is not available use a similar studio quality condenser microphone.

The microphone should be place approximately eight feet off the floor, six feet in front of the player, and pointed directly at the instrument. "


This is basically the kind of stuff I need to do. But I am not dropping that kind of money on a mic.

Thanks for your help.
They're not going to know what mic you used, I assure you. If money is that tight, get a SM57 for less than 100 bucks. Find a good sounding room, with a very high ceiling, and put the mic roughly where they say.
Old 29th January 2013
  #27
Gear Head
 
Cloudwalker's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I've been "humming-and-hah'ing" about getting a ribbon mic this past month.
Finally settled on the Avantone CR-14, after much research.
$260 each, and well worth it imo!
http://www.avantonepro.com/Avantone-...icrophone.html

Check out the Clarinet quartet recording loujudson did with a stereo pair of them:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-mu...-try-them.html
Old 30th January 2013
  #28
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Re20
md421
d112
Old 10th February 2013 | Show parent
  #29
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mljung's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by brassmoose ➑️
Cheap LDC condensers are not usually very kind to brass. Expensive ones are not bad, but can be a bit bright. I have a (discontinued) Beyerdynamic Opus 83 (SDC) that is ok. For LDCs maybe take a look at the ADK mics. The S7C is voiced to be a tad dark, intentionally for brass, so it won't be too brittle. I hear their A6 condenser is good on instruments (been meaning to pick one up...new $200+, maybe used for $150?). The Odin from ADK is a modified S7 that allows you to switch the brightness to your preference--the "mellow" setting is the same as the S7C. Might be a good way to go. From what I hear, the ADKs are some of the best budget LDCs, but I have not used them myself.
Just a correction it's S7B that is mellow - S7C is bright...

::
Mads
Old 11th February 2013 | Show parent
  #30
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mljung ➑️
Just a correction it's S7B that is mellow - S7C is bright...

::
Mads
Whoops! Thanks for the correction!
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