Quantcast
LDC vs SDC(pair) for Acoustic Guitar and? - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
LDC vs SDC(pair) for Acoustic Guitar and?
Old 24th September 2012
  #1
Lives for gear
 
mahuska's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
LDC vs SDC(pair) for Acoustic Guitar and?

Hi I am starting to consider buying either a LDC or a pair of SDC's. Budget
is around $500.00. The source material mainly Acoustic Guitar If I go with a pair of SDC's I'll have to buy another mic pre as what I am using now is a GAP Pre-73 which is mono. Still the 500.00 budget is just for the mics. I do plan on the full mod for the Pre-73 sometime soon. I expect in this thread varying opinions so I'll just sift through them to come to a general consensus.
On another thread I started I was asking about compressors and that led me to do a shoot-out using my SM7b-Pre-73. Then I took the files over to a friends studio that has been treated. I believe his mic is the Octava Mod was this one
Award-winning microphone engineering from Michael Joly

This friend has the Pre-73 as well. I'll post up comparison clips on that thread soon, but both of us seem to favor my SM7b for my Vox. He used two settings on the Gap, one with less character and one with more color/character.
I'll go over there again and see how his mic fairs on my acoustic gtr.
I plan on doing some of the same treatment for my room like what he has going on. My experiences with LCD's was the 4050 and for some reason a tube early model of Se Electronics mic worked better for my Vox, not bad on Acoustics.I have owned and used the original CAD e-100 and 200's with great success on many sources.

There is a wealth of knowledge and experience here and of course some biased that I take in stride, but I do want to hear what you all think and what suggestions/feedback may be offered.

Last edited by mahuska; 25th September 2012 at 01:17 PM.. Reason: wrong url
Old 24th September 2012
  #2
Lives for gear
 
mahuska's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I forgot to mention that there may be some occasions where I might have both male and female background vox. It will happen, but don't know the time-frame right now. My SM7b is working for my Vox but there may be some times another Vocal may might work for me as well Also I want to record/sample some percussion once in awhile as I am researching tambourines shakers and bongos
Old 24th September 2012
  #3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
It is not commonly bandied about around here, but an awful lot of pretty wonderful vocals have been cut on SDC mics. The Beatles rooftop sessions, plus most of what you see in the latter studio movie and the Hey Jude videos and other Beatles videos of that time period show AKG C-28s (with various extension tubes for the capsules, and various wind-screens, foam, etc). The C-28 was the tube predecessor to the AKG 451/460/480.

The main difference is that SDCs have a very smooth flat frequency response and are more accurate in capturing off-axis audio. So if you had a mind to buy a nice pair of SDCs, there would be nothing wrong with using them for vocals if you choose to do so. (Or of course, keep rocking the SM7).

There are a lot of SDCs. The last inexpensive ones that I tried were the Oktava MK-012. I bought two kits back in the 90s, with the multiple capsules and pads. I found them to be surprisingly good given the budget cost, and I was comparing them to 451s, 460s, 480s, C-28s and 26s, and Neumman KM-84s and 83s. And these were unmodified. I'm sure that in the ensuing years there have been newer SDC products worth considering, but I can't recommend them.

Would I buy a budget SDC and have them modified? Probably, I would buy a better mic to start with. But I've looked over the mods, and they obviously do add value to the 012. It is just that, for the cost of the mics plus the mods, I could probably find a pair of vintage 451s (not the re-issue) or 460s, and I'd rather have those. Also, one has to be careful when buying Oktava/Octava mics, with the counterfits running around and the questionable construction of some product runs. (When I bought my original pair I had to send one set back because of poor thread chasing on the mic body.) Mics from AKG etc have a high degree of quality control. But you need to make the decisions that work best for you.
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
mahuska's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] ➑️
It is not commonly bandied about around here, but an awful lot of pretty wonderful vocals have been cut on SDC mics. The Beatles rooftop sessions, plus most of what you see in the latter studio movie and the Hey Jude videos and other Beatles videos of that time period show AKG C-28s (with various extension tubes for the capsules, and various wind-screens, foam, etc). The C-28 was the tube predecessor to the AKG 451/460/480.

The main difference is that SDCs have a very smooth flat frequency response and are more accurate in capturing off-axis audio. So if you had a mind to buy a nice pair of SDCs, there would be nothing wrong with using them for vocals if you choose to do so. (Or of course, keep rocking the SM7).

There are a lot of SDCs. The last inexpensive ones that I tried were the Oktava MK-012. I bought two kits back in the 90s, with the multiple capsules and pads. I found them to be surprisingly good given the budget cost, and I was comparing them to 451s, 460s, 480s, C-28s and 26s, and Neumman KM-84s and 83s. And these were unmodified. I'm sure that in the ensuing years there have been newer SDC products worth considering, but I can't recommend them.

Would I buy a budget SDC and have them modified? Probably, I would buy a better mic to start with. But I've looked over the mods, and they obviously do add value to the 012. It is just that, for the cost of the mics plus the mods, I could probably find a pair of vintage 451s (not the re-issue) or 460s, and I'd rather have those. Also, one has to be careful when buying Oktava/Octava mics, with the counterfits running around and the questionable construction of some product runs. (When I bought my original pair I had to send one set back because of poor thread chasing on the mic body.) Mics from AKG etc have a high degree of quality control. But you need to make the decisions that work best for you.
Wow thanks for the informative reply. A lot to digest and many choices abound. Since my Home Project Studio is mainly recording my work and performances I need to look at that first then see how things go as I have been piquing the interest of fellow Musicians here in town. I look at the big picture and will increase my sparse mic locker and add more outboard over the coming year or so. What do you think of this mic that is sold already modded and good to go
Award-winning microphone engineering from Michael Joly
It is in my price range and if I wanted to try it with an LCD on my acoustic I could take my Pre-73 to my friends studio as he has the same preamp and one of Joly's LCD Mods. I feel my search for a workhorse LCD may take some more time and research, and I have to consider my desire to Mod my Gap pre-73 and pick up a compressor. It all comes down to priorities and what order
these purchased will occur.
Thanks again
Old 25th September 2012
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
It would be pushing your budget a little so you would have to go used or find a screaming deal but I've had very good luck with a pair of cad e100s and also a pair of beyer m201 for acoustic guitar.
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
mahuska's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtripper ➑️
It would be pushing your budget a little so you would have to go used or find a screaming deal but I've had very good luck with a pair of cad e100s and also a pair of beyer m201 for acoustic guitar.
I owned and loved the cad e-100's however it appears they don't compare to the original USA made ones. Correct me if I am wrong. I notice the beyer m201 and dynamic and touted as great for for guitar cabs but perhaps other sources as well. I need to find out more on the e-100's as I would rather buy new.
stop the presses I see ZenPro Audio has the USA made e-100's
CAD E100S | Microphones @ ZenProAudio.com
Tempting.....
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahuska ➑️
...What do you think of this mic that is sold already modded and good to go....
As I said previously, " Probably, I would buy a better mic to start with. " I would look on the used market. The majority of my mics are vintage, and I bought them used.

This is absolutely no knock against Mr Joly or his mods, it is my personal preference. I am also of the opinion that if you want, say, the sound of a Gibson Les Paul, you should buy a Gibson Les Paul rather than buy something else and try to modify it into sounding like a Gibson Les Paul. When I buy a mic, I am not looking for an SDC or a ribbon or whatever, I am looking for the sound of an AKG 451 or the sound of a Schoeps, or an RCA 77D. I have a specific voice in mind that I want to hear on my recordings.

I believe that in the long term a classic mic is a classic, a modded mic is a mod which will serve you well but it would be very surprising if that modded mic grew in value or desirability. For example, there are several guys who mod high end mics and have been doing so for 20 or 30 years. Whenever someone tries to sell one and announces that it has so-and so-s famous mod, it does not seem to excite anyone beyond the value of the vintage mic to start with. Much like changing the wiring harness, knobs, bridge and pickups and painting a Squire, at the end of the day it is still a Squire, however hopped up it might be, however better it might sound than the stock Squire. Very few people will care about the modifications other than recording geeks around the forums. Your clients won't know, understand, or care.

On one hand, anybody with deeper pockets can buy better gear than me. On the other hand, if I fill my studio with the same stuff that everybody else has, I'm going to have to work twice as hard to differentiate my services from anyone else's. The key is obviously with me and my ability to do better than the next guy on the block, but it never hurts to have some quality gear behind me.

And finally about mods... why assume out of the gate that you have to mod it at all? Why not use it for a while as originally designed and built? Just maybe the original designer had a clue? And if after a few months you find it lacking, -then- send it in to be modified.

Another thing.... buy in haste, repent at leisure.
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #8
Lives for gear
 
mahuska's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] ➑️
As I said previously, " Probably, I would buy a better mic to start with. " I would look on the used market. The majority of my mics are vintage, and I bought them used.

This is absolutely no knock against Mr Joly or his mods, it is my personal preference. I am also of the opinion that if you want, say, the sound of a Gibson Les Paul, you should buy a Gibson Les Paul rather than buy something else and try to modify it into sounding like a Gibson Les Paul. When I buy a mic, I am not looking for an SDC or a ribbon or whatever, I am looking for the sound of an AKG 451 or the sound of a Schoeps, or an RCA 77D. I have a specific voice in mind that I want to hear on my recordings.

I believe that in the long term a classic mic is a classic, a modded mic is a mod which will serve you well but it would be very surprising if that modded mic grew in value or desirability. For example, there are several guys who mod high end mics and have been doing so for 20 or 30 years. Whenever someone tries to sell one and announces that it has so-and so-s famous mod, it does not seem to excite anyone beyond the value of the vintage mic to start with. Much like changing the wiring harness, knobs, bridge and pickups and painting a Squire, at the end of the day it is still a Squire, however hopped up it might be, however better it might sound than the stock Squire. Very few people will care about the modifications other than recording geeks around the forums. Your clients won't know, understand, or care.

On one hand, anybody with deeper pockets can buy better gear than me. On the other hand, if I fill my studio with the same stuff that everybody else has, I'm going to have to work twice as hard to differentiate my services from anyone else's. The key is obviously with me and my ability to do better than the next guy on the block, but it never hurts to have some quality gear behind me.

And finally about mods... why assume out of the gate that you have to mod it at all? Why not use it for a while as originally designed and built? Just maybe the original designer had a clue? And if after a few months you find it lacking, -then- send it in to be modified.

Another thing.... buy in haste, repent at leisure.
You bring up some valid points, as I realize you can't polish a turd or one should at least give a stock mic a go before assuming it needs modded. I am a Guitar player and over the past few years picked up some collectible Japanese
"lawsuit" guitars. I really loved the construction and feel/playability however the pups were sub-par. I replaced them with hand wound pickups from a reputable winder. Now these guitars are the cream of the crop. I essentially have a "Strat" that is a better guitar then what Fender made in the 70's and the same with another beating out most Les Paul's from that era.I was of the right mind to save the original parts, but I doubt I would ever part with these two axes. EVER. As far as the Joly modded mic I sang through the other day while it does improve his vocal recording over the budget LCD's he has, I just couldn't get as inspired or pumped up when I used it say comparing to my SM7b. I don't have the "deep pockets" as you say I goggled some of the vintage classics you mentioned and way out of my price range. I wish I knew
more models that one would consider a worthy classic and do further research. FYI I am not planning on buying in haste I like to do my homework months in advance, especially if the gear I seek is not familiar to me as other pieces of kit.
For new mics I forgot to mention I owned a AKG 414(don't recall the model)
and it was lovely. I wonder how it's little brother the C-214 compares and would be worth some consideration. As stated above,I had great success with the USA made Cad E-100 and also owned the 200. Back when Se Electronics
were getting off the ground I purchased one of their Tube condenser(now discontinued) and I can't recall the model. That mic sent my AT 4050 packing.
Now I don't know what Se is putting out now, but I have to go with my personal experiences as well, and the mics/brands mentioned above are ones of interest. Like stated above I wish I know more about the classic's. I do have another great old friend on the coast that has a nice studio with a ample mic locker. I'll give him a call and get some advice from him as well.
Once again I thank you and if you know of any other vintage/classic or otherwise great mics, please suggest and I'll do my homework and pricing used as well
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #9
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Well, I did leave out my usual comment about each one of us also having to stay within our budgets. I'm not trying to push you into uncomfortable territory, just trying to be sure that you've checked your options and thought through the process before you toss your money down. Most people around here seem to be in a big hurry.

I too started out as a guitarist, and now that I've retired, that is happily what I am again and really what I would have preferred to have done all along. I played the lawsuit guitars when they came out in the 1970s and I had mixed emotions then and now about them. I don't agree that they were 'better' than the models they copied (and the ones that I played in the 70s were copies of guitars from the 50s/60s that were unobtainum), for several reasons. I absolutely agree that they were nice guitars, as were the Yamaha double cuts from that same time period.

But my guitars from the 60s and 50s are very nice guitars, all are stock, and I am quite happy with them. But my main two electrics are a custom made Pellow and a Gibson Custom Shop 336 semi-solid/semi-hollow with P-90 pickups. And those are the ones I'll keep for the long haul, long after I've sold off the vintage kit, if I ever do. Finding boutique amps caused me to sell off the majority of my vintage amps, and I had a hell of a collection. But I've replaced them with a pair of nice low-end boutique amps that have that vintage character yet bring even more tone to the table. Same with pedals.

But the vintage mics, I haven't been able to knock them down. I do have a couple of Tracy Korby mics of which I am quite fond, and I've used a few other pricy modern emulations of classics wherein the manufacturer worked very hard to re-create rare birds, but the budget ones don't do it for me.

Good luck on your search!
Old 25th September 2012
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
to tie into some of the above posts I use KMS105 for recording and performing out on my voice and love the results.

This is essentially a vocalized KM184, it's a little noisier has a slight frequency response tweak to help voice cut through, and has compensations in design and circuit for eliminating pops, excessive plosives/sibilance. But it essentially is still like using a SDC for voice. So assuming you EQ properly, use a decent pop filter, use a good positioning/distance from the mic you should be able to get some very good results with it.

The Beyer M201 is a great mic to have around btw, it will do acoustic guitars, snare drums, vocals, trumpets etc and blow away other mics. It can be used for so many things though.

And I would second Bill's advice about sticking to your budget and taking your time. If you can maybe try out some different things in local music stores/studios to see what you prefer. Gear should be an investment for a lifetime not an impulse buy.

Another suggestion I can make is to try an AT4033 these work great on acoustic guitars (and a lot of instruments in general) and they may not always be the best choice for vocals but on certain voices they are perfect and imho nothing that the right positioning, EQ'ing, etc won't compensate for to get useable results. They frequently pop used for $200-$250 that's how I bought mine. A pair of those imho would do you very well for your acoustic guitars, make at least decent vocal takes plus it can handle guitar/bass cabs, drum overheads, etc well. To me they kind of give me the best of SDC and LDC traits.

For recording I think buying used and buying wisely is the best thing you can do and I prefer it to buying new/modded mics, not that those aren't decent options worth considering, merely presenting my preference. Something Bill didn't mention is that modding a budget mic isn't a good investment because trying to resell a modded mic will never get you close to what you'd initially invested. When you buy a quality mic with a reputation there is less to lose in the long run because people will always pay premiums for AKG, Shure, etc.

I typically only buy new mics if I want terms (payment plans/credit) or plan to use the mics for applications where they may get abused (live vocal mics).
Old 25th September 2012
  #11
Lives for gear
 
mahuska's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The Tokai Silver Star was a copy of the then current 70's Fender models. Seen a cover a a Guitar magazine with Stevie Ray Vaughn playing one. It has the same headstock and the spaghetti logo of the T(in Tokai) Resembles the F in Fender. I did my research and here was the deal. The Japanese never intended to export these guitars. They wanted to supply a quality yet affordable axe for their people. They did get exported and I read in some cases when arriving in the US, the headstocks got cut off. My Yammy SG 500 is the double cut as you mentioned. Good enough for Santana back then. Ironically
my dear friend that passed about a year and a half ago had quite the Gtr. collection.
I assisted him by taking pictures, researching and creating ads for eBay. Now his wife has gave me another assignment. This is not Spam. I have in my possession a 1951 Epiphone Zephyr DeLuxe Regent. I just got done with the pics and am now putting the ad together and she will review then we will place it. This guitar was his Dad's bought new in 1951 and later given to him. Since he was more of a Fender/Tele guy, he didn't bond with it so there it sat in it's case for many years. Cosmetically just a little playwear and a couple small dings but other than that a beautiful guitar. I just did a little truss rod relief and found it very playable. Sounds loud un-plugged and the guitar itself is so comfortable, more so than other full hollows I've played. I plugged it in and no noise with the pots or the 3 way selector. I really like it's tone either clean or with some output tubes cooking OD. I wish I could buy it. Oh well, someone will enjoy it and she needs the cash so it will be a win win situation. BTW got to love them P-90's re: your Gibson
Old 25th September 2012
  #12
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
All great advice by Bill. Let me just add that if you do go the Oktava 012 route, and mod them, try Bill Sitler. Cheaper than Joly mod's and the work is every bit as good. I think you can get a pair of 012's mod'd for less than $150.
Old 25th September 2012
  #13
Lives for gear
 
mahuska's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Wow guys I just saw a pair of 012's from several sellers at reasonable pricing or even single mics the same. Now the concern are they legit and the fact of dealing with Paypal/eBay.
Old 25th September 2012
  #14
Lives for gear
 
turk sanchez's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
I just got one of these and I like it. Made in Germany (not China), only $129 each. I have only used it for overhead so far, but it's nice. It's bright but not harsh. I sang into it and was surprised at how nice it was on my voice. Since this is low-end, and it's a great inexpensive mic, I thought I should mention it. Not too much info on the web about these.

Beyerdynamic tg i53c

beyerdynamic TG I53c - Drums - Vocals & Instruments - Microphones - Microphones
Old 27th September 2012
  #15
Lives for gear
 
mahuska's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks all for the replies and advice. I did speak to my Buddy in Portland OR. that
has a Nice Studio and he has an awesome mic locker. He shared that when tracking Acoustics Gtrs. he has no set formula or mic in mind. He just reaches for a mic or two
after hearing how the guitarists plays/sounds then decides accordingly. He does have a couple pairs of Oktava MK-012's I think he said one pair modded. He likes them and they get some usage. Since this purchase is a few months out for now I think the 012's
are the top contenders. I am now familiar what to look for as far as counterfeits.
thanks again
Old 27th September 2012
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Silent Sound's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
If you're looking for a mic to record acoustic guitars and female vocals, I'd look at the AT4033. It does a stellar job on both. It's a medium diaphragm condenser, so it has some properties of both LDC's and SDC's. Not always the best mic for male vocals, but you have an SM7 for that.

While I love my MC012's, they're not even in contention for vocal duties when compared to the other mics in my mic locker. They are superb on acoustic instruments of just about any type, however, including drums, double bass and piano.
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
mahuska's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Sound ➑️
If you're looking for a mic to record acoustic guitars and female vocals, I'd look at the AT4033. It does a stellar job on both. It's a medium diaphragm condenser, so it has some properties of both LDC's and SDC's. Not always the best mic for male vocals, but you have an SM7 for that.

While I love my MC012's, they're not even in contention for vocal duties when compared to the other mics in my mic locker. They are superb on acoustic instruments of just about any type, however, including drums, double bass and piano.
Funny you recommend this mic. I owned one for several years in the 90's. At the time no dedicated mic pre's just Mackie 1202 then 1604(pre VLZ)
I didn't get along with it for my voice, but do remember decent Acoustic gtr tracks. I wonder what I would think know with a better pre-amp like my Gap
Pre-73. Googled the 4033 and Gearslutz and it does have a bad rap for vocals(mainly male) but great on other sources. I think I need at least a SDC or pair of, then consider a LCD workhourse both that would compliment my SM7b. This would be a modest mic locker, but not a bad start.
thanks for your reply
Old 27th September 2012
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
I happen to love the AT4033 I just picked up a second AT4033a for my studio it works great for acoustic guitars, electric guitars, drum overheads, and certain vocals. To be honest I think the 4033 would be an excellent compliment to your SM7b as they would provide very different vocal options. The SM7b providing the smooth, vibey mojo and the 4033 adding a nice bright (not harsh, musically bright) sound that will cut in a mix.

It's a very versatile mic. I'd suggest giving one a try you can often find them used for $200-$250 with case and shockmount in good shape. If you really hate it you have barely anything invested and can easily flip it for about what you put in.

If it isn't flooring you on vocals experiment with positioning, try EQ'ing, etc. You are on a budget and the mic is more than capable of producing great results.

To me it's probably my go-to acoustic guitar mic as it kinda offers the best of both worlds LDC and SDC. You get a really nice transient detail/response and a nice high end but it has a nice body to it, it seems to cut great in a mix.

Honestly I'm beginning to think that the first four mics for a project studio should be a Beyer M88, Beyer M201, and a pair of AT4033 based on quality and sheer versatility.
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
mahuska's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by indie folk guy ➑️
I happen to love the AT4033 I just picked up a second AT4033a for my studio it works great for acoustic guitars, electric guitars, drum overheads, and certain vocals. To be honest I think the 4033 would be an excellent compliment to your SM7b as they would provide very different vocal options. The SM7b providing the smooth, vibey mojo and the 4033 adding a nice bright (not harsh, musically bright) sound that will cut in a mix.

It's a very versatile mic. I'd suggest giving one a try you can often find them used for $200-$250 with case and shockmount in good shape. If you really hate it you have barely anything invested and can easily flip it for about what you put in.

If it isn't flooring you on vocals experiment with positioning, try EQ'ing, etc. You are on a budget and the mic is more than capable of producing great results.

To me it's probably my go-to acoustic guitar mic as it kinda offers the best of both worlds LDC and SDC. You get a really nice transient detail/response and a nice high end but it has a nice body to it, it seems to cut great in a mix.

Honestly I'm beginning to think that the first four mics for a project studio should be a Beyer M88, Beyer M201, and a pair of AT4033 based on quality and sheer versatility.
Well like I said I don't think the 4033 got a fair shot as I really didn't have any outboard gear to speak up. Just my Mackie and Alesis Reverb. I started with Tascam 8 track tape, then A stand alone 4 track digital record box then finally
Moved into the Daw world in 1991 using Emagic's Logic Audio. Learned a lot over the years and started picking up mic pre's and compressors. I feel the SM7b is a must for both my Vox and recording Gtr cabs. I won't rule out the 4033 but must mention I do not record a live drum kit and just use samples and various drum VSTi's in my Daws. Vocals, another Gtr cab mic or two and Acoustic guitars will be my main focus as far as purchasing more mics.
I appreciate your input, my good old friend sure loves and uses his 4050
which I know is a different animal than the 4033, but he has a U87 and quite a few more classics.
Old 27th September 2012
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
well I will say that the 4033a is often a first choice for me for just about any instrument applications

so even though you aren't going to track drums with it. I often use it in conjunction with a dynamic mic for guitar cabs, it works well for bass cabs also. Using the SM7b and 4033 would yield an excellent electric guitar cabinet imho of course ymmv.

But for acoustic guitars I am hard pressed to find better mics at any price it simply works. I have access to some very nice and much more expensive mics and will be investing in some very nice mics in the coming months as budget allows and I decide on exactly what I want.

I think to give something a fair shot will have more to do with talent/technique than simply gear. Nothing will trump talent so if you have a great take as a performer and you know what you're doing as an engineer those details begin to matter a little bit less. Spending the time to get the best results from the gear you have is giving it a fair shot. Simply throwing up a mic, hitting record, and expecting perfection will rarely be that easy. Every mic is different, every performer/source is different you have to think outside the box in placement, potential EQing, etc. Ultimately you just use your ears and go with what sounds good.

I merely mention the fact that it's versatile for other things because that can add value to a low end setup. I'd rather have a mic that can do many things well than just one thing well. Think of it like your SM7b it may not always be the best mic for everything but rarely will it get a bad result, especially if you are willing to work with it. And while your current projects may not need that versatility it's hard to tell what the future holds for you.
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #21
Lives for gear
 
mahuska's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by indie folk guy ➑️
well I will say that the 4033a is often a first choice for me for just about any instrument applications

so even though you aren't going to track drums with it. I often use it in conjunction with a dynamic mic for guitar cabs, it works well for bass cabs also. Using the SM7b and 4033 would yield an excellent electric guitar cabinet imho of course ymmv.

But for acoustic guitars I am hard pressed to find better mics at any price it simply works. I have access to some very nice and much more expensive mics and will be investing in some very nice mics in the coming months as budget allows and I decide on exactly what I want.

I think to give something a fair shot will have more to do with talent/technique than simply gear. Nothing will trump talent so if you have a great take as a performer and you know what you're doing as an engineer those details begin to matter a little bit less. Spending the time to get the best results from the gear you have is giving it a fair shot. Simply throwing up a mic, hitting record, and expecting perfection will rarely be that easy. Every mic is different, every performer/source is different you have to think outside the box in placement, potential EQing, etc. Ultimately you just use your ears and go with what sounds good.

I merely mention the fact that it's versatile for other things because that can add value to a low end setup. I'd rather have a mic that can do many things well than just one thing well. Think of it like your SM7b it may not always be the best mic for everything but rarely will it get a bad result, especially if you are willing to work with it. And while your current projects may not need that versatility it's hard to tell what the future holds for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by indie folk guy ➑️
well I will say that the 4033a is often a first choice for me for just about any instrument applications

so even though you aren't going to track drums with it. I often use it in conjunction with a dynamic mic for guitar cabs, it works well for bass cabs also. Using the SM7b and 4033 would yield an excellent electric guitar cabinet imho of course ymmv.

But for acoustic guitars I am hard pressed to find better mics at any price it simply works. I have access to some very nice and much more expensive mics and will be investing in some very nice mics in the coming months as budget allows and I decide on exactly what I want.

I think to give something a fair shot will have more to do with talent/technique than simply gear. Nothing will trump talent so if you have a great take as a performer and you know what you're doing as an engineer those details begin to matter a little bit less. Spending the time to get the best results from the gear you have is giving it a fair shot. Simply throwing up a mic, hitting record, and expecting perfection will rarely be that easy. Every mic is different, every performer/source is different you have to think outside the box in placement, potential EQing, etc. Ultimately you just use your ears and go with what sounds good.

I merely mention the fact that it's versatile for other things because that can add value to a low end setup. I'd rather have a mic that can do many things well than just one thing well. Think of it like your SM7b it may not always be the best mic for everything but rarely will it get a bad result, especially if you are willing to work with it. And while your current projects may not need that versatility it's hard to tell what the future holds for you.
So true about experience and performance. I've recorded music for many years and know how to milk the best at what I have at my disposal. I also know proper Vocal mic technique and performance. sadly many of the good singers I've recorded are not used to using a mic in a recording environment.
I try to coach as best I can. I do not have the luxury of acquiring a Mic locker as great as my friend, so I try to do my best as my budget allows. I've owned the 4050, 4033, AKG 414 CAd E-100 and 200 and an Early model Se Electronics tube mic. All very nice mics, so my experiences come in to play and also asking others what they use in many recording scenarios helps as well. Many interesting suggestions so far and I am grateful for all the responses including yours
Old 28th September 2012
  #22
Lives for gear
 
Sanchez's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
$569 will get you a pair of Oktava mk012 with the full set of 6 capsules to your door in the US from Thomann in Europe. The 2 capsule set is of course cheaper.

Got mine there and all kosher
Old 28th September 2012 | Show parent
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Rob Coates's Avatar
 
19 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahuska ➑️
I owned and loved the cad e-100's however it appears they don't compare to the original USA made ones. Correct me if I am wrong. I notice the beyer m201 and dynamic and touted as great for for guitar cabs but perhaps other sources as well. I need to find out more on the e-100's as I would rather buy new.
stop the presses I see ZenPro Audio has the USA made e-100's
CAD E100S | Microphones @ ZenProAudio.com
Tempting.....
The original USA made CAD E100 is a great sounding mic and is a small/medium diaphragm mic. Another good sounding small diaphragm mic is the lowly MCA SP-1. For $40, the SP-1 is a no brainer.
Old 28th September 2012 | Show parent
  #24
Lives for gear
 
mahuska's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Coates ➑️
The original USA made CAD E100 is a great sounding mic and is a small/medium diaphragm mic. Another good sounding small diaphragm mic is the lowly MCA SP-1. For $40, the SP-1 is a no brainer.
Yeah like I said I really like the CAD E100 I bought back in the early 90's
I'll shoot Warren an email and ask if the new ones made in the USA he carries
are pretty much the same as the original. Wow some people like a $50.00 mic
(MCA-1). Does it really get much use for you?
Old 28th September 2012
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
most of the MXL and MCA mics I've tried I ended up selling to me they can be useful tools on a budget but they really don't replace more expensive mics if you have them available.

And I'd kinda rather just buy a nicer mic up front than mod the hell out of a cheap mic. At that point you aren't really comparing a low cost mic anymore as the mods require labor and parts costs that put them in the same territory or more than a better chosen "stock" mic.

IMHO alot of those cheap mics tend to be a little noisy for my tastes, don't really provide the transient detail/clarity I like, sometimes they have kind of a grainy sound to them, and yeah they just aren't the same quality.

Of course that's my subjective opinion and ymmv.
Old 28th September 2012
  #26
Lives for gear
 
guitarboy94's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
just get an Sm7b and thank me later.

Old 28th September 2012 | Show parent
  #27
Lives for gear
 
mahuska's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarboy94 ➑️
just get an Sm7b and thank me later.

Dude I have one
Old 28th September 2012
  #28
Lives for gear
 
guitarboy94's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
In all seriousness, I have a similar setup as you and have been getting terrific results with the following:

Sm7b: lead vocals, People go on about how this mic can be muddy, but you need to stand back a few inches from it to let in the highs and relieve the promixity effect. The mic really opens up when you do that. Definately remove the foam.

Gap pre73 and Rane MS1b are perfect preamps for stereo micing acoustic guitar. You can get both for 400 total used off ebay. I scored a fully modded used Gap off ebay for 350 bucks. It sounds great without the mods, but PHENOMINAL with the mods.

Little Blondie Small condenser: These are AMAZING on acoustic guitar. You can get a pair for 240 bucks.
Old 28th September 2012 | Show parent
  #29
Lives for gear
 
mahuska's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarboy94 ➑️
In all seriousness, I have a similar setup as you and have been getting terrific results with the following:

Sm7b: lead vocals, People go on about how this mic can be muddy, but you need to stand back a few inches from it to let in the highs and relieve the promixity effect. The mic really opens up when you do that. Definately remove the foam.

Gap pre73 and Rane MS1b are perfect preamps for stereo micing acoustic guitar. You can get both for 400 total used off ebay. I scored a fully modded used Gap off ebay for 350 bucks. It sounds great without the mods, but PHENOMINAL with the mods.

Little Blondie Small condenser: These are AMAZING on acoustic guitar. You can get a pair for 240 bucks.
Wow, that is exactly what I do when I track with the SM7b. When I removed the foam, more clarity but it still retains what it is good at. I am pretty experienced with vocal mic technique, and surely don't eat the SM7b. Since the Pre-73 has so much gain I am at least 7 or so inches away and back up even more during louder passages. Still want an ouboard compressor as I am
finding more problems tracking Bass gtr. It must be that I am not a real Bass player and there may be some dead spots on the instrument as well.
Yeah I plan on the Full Gap mod. Thanks for the tips
Old 28th September 2012
  #30
Lives for gear
 
guitarboy94's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Check out the DBX 163x compresser. I use that in my setup. Less than 100 bucks used and adds really nice character. Also, when I switched to omni small condensers I started getting some terrific acoustic guitar recordings. Sounds really natural.
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 5873 views: 1880449
Avatar for gollumsluvslave
gollumsluvslave 8 hours ago
replies: 1178 views: 265011
Avatar for bill5
bill5 2 weeks ago
replies: 63 views: 5711
Avatar for snΓΌzz
snΓΌzz 3rd February 2011
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump