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new akg c414 vs advanced audio cm-414
Old 22nd September 2012
  #1
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
new akg c414 vs advanced audio cm-414

I was looking to buy a couple of verstile condesors, so I was thinking about a couple of the new akg 414s (xlII or xls). I often see people mentioning that the best c414s were the older ones which still used the c12 capsule. I also see alot of people with good things to say about the advanded audio microphones, one of which is the cm-414 which is based on the older c12 capsule 414s. So I was wondering if anyone had any experience with the new 414s and the cm-414 and could maybe tell me how the cm-414s compare.

I know the cm-414 has one less pickup pattern and I believe only one bass roll off option, but thats not a big concern for me, especially at $300 less.

Also if anyone has any recordings done with the cm414 I would love to hear them. It seems the only fet mic from advanced audio I can find any sound samples of are the cm-47.

Thanks

EDIT: I did find this http://soundcloud.com/stillwaterstud...1-dry-no-eq-no but it doesn't give alot of details, such as which c414 was used, placement, etc. I did notice listening to it though, that the advanced audio cm-47 fet sounds a little closer to the c414, and doesn't seem to have the some of the harshness and midrange boost that the cm-414 has. So I guess I will also ask if anyone has compared the cm-47 fet to the cm-414, and how the cm-47fet might work as a general purpose mic. I know the cm-47fet doesn't have the figure 8 pattern, but other than that does anyone have any opinions?
Old 22nd September 2012
  #2
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Wink

tbone, IMHO Dave Thomas (owner) seems like a really cool guy.

If it were me, I'd contact him directly. AFAIK that company is well regarded.

Not affiliated in any way, just an amateur enthusiast BTW...

Chris

P.S. If you end up getting the CM-414, would like to hear any clips from you.
Old 23rd September 2012
  #3
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
if I got the cm414(or even one of the cm47fet) I could probably post some clips as drum overheads or acoustic guitar, as I can't seem to find many clips of either of them. As far as the akgs go, there are already plenty of clips of those around.
Old 24th September 2012
  #4
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
just bumping the post. Hoping someone can provide some more input before I pull the trigger and buy the mics.
Old 24th September 2012
  #5
Lives for gear
 
cheu78's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I'd NOT buy the new akg 414.. IMO they sound really harsh and brittle..

Get anything else..
I don't know the advanced audio you want to buy, but they will probably be better than the new akg's 414.

Check also out the Violet Design Black Knight and/or some Beesneez offerings.. not expensive and they sound good.

I hope this helps,



Cheu
Old 24th September 2012
  #6
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
At about 650 a piece, the c414s were really the top of my budget, so from what I can find the beezneez are out of my price range. The violet design one seems like an interesting option, but I would like atleast a cardoid and omni pattern, that being said ill definately take a look at that one if I can find much on it.

I've used c414s before but it was a while ago and I don't know what versions any of them were, but that being said I had good experiences with them. I do know however they were an older version since they had the more blocky metal body, not the smoother plastic looking one they apear to be using now.

As far as the cm414 goes, expecpt for that one clip I found, I haven't heard it at all, I just have the description of it and advanced audios reputation to go on. But judging from that clip the cm47 fet sounds quite a bit more pleasant and neutral, although the clip seems like a pretty bad example. Granted because of it I'm considereing a couple of the cm47 fets, and with the extra money pick up a sm7b.
Still would like a pair of slightly nicer general purpose ldcs though, so I'm not sure.

And ofcourse, thanks for the input guys.
Old 25th September 2012
  #7
Lives for gear
 
cheu78's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
If you need multipattern, try to get an old 414 used.. I'm not sure how much they're going nowadays.. They shouldn't be too far from your budget though..
Afterall is a good allround even if it doesn't sound as good as the others I mentioned on some vocals... (but it's more a matter of finding the right mic for that specific vocals.. KD Lang used an old 414 on stage!! )

If a single polar pattern suffice, the Black Knight is a helluva mic, and you might want to check out the JZ11 too (which tops your budget).



Cheu
Old 25th September 2012
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
to be honest with you I think finding a used pair of the old 414 would be a great choice and would likely save you some money. For studios used mics are a gold mine of savings. Just do your research and find the right model of C414 to suit your needs.

But if you must buy new I'd probably say (depsite my AKG love) that the newer C414 are not one I'd suggest.

I have no experience with the CM414 to say if they are like the older C414 mics though but a couple of alternatives (different mics) that I always liked are the Shure KSM44 and the AT4050. Both are great alternatives to the C414.

Wish I could be of more help.
Old 4th June 2013
  #9
Here for the gear
 
adamspade.com's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Man, im dissapointed. Not much response on this thread.

In my opinion, just start collecting Dave's mics. To own all of his mics would probably be the most cost effective arsenal out there. I plan to pick up a cm414 and/or cm47fet soon and i will come back to this thread with samples.
Old 19th July 2013
  #10
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Hey guys:

Not sure if this is dead, but:

I've spent the week tracking my friends bands album with much use of the CM414 and Cm47 on many sources. Anyone interested in hearing it? Also processed or un-processed?
Old 19th July 2013 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Addict
 
Jazzcrisis's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Haze ➑️
Hey guys:

Not sure if this is dead, but:

I've spent the week tracking my friends bands album with much use of the CM414 and Cm47 on many sources. Anyone interested in hearing it? Also processed or un-processed?
Sure, I'd like to hear it. I'm considering picking up a CM414.
Old 21st July 2013
  #12
Lives for gear
 
augustusarnone's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
AA 414 sample

Hey, I own a pair of Advanced Audio CM414s. I'm a classical pianist and I use them to record my chamber music concerts. Here's a link to a recording of a piano trio made with two 414s as a spaced pair:

http://www.augustusarnone.com/sounds...o_Trio_Raw.aif

It was recorded using an Allen and Heath ZedR16 console into a Mac. This is the raw recording, no EQ or post-processing. The mics were in omni as a spaced pair about 3-4 ft. in front of the strings, and a bit more than that in front of the piano. The piano probably sounds a bit too distant, I probably need to start spot mic-ing the piano as I'm usually recording this type of small ensemble.

I am NOT a recording engineer, I've read up on it a bit, but just FYI. I hope this is helpful but I'd also be very curious to know what anyone thinks of these mics. I have lots of recordings using them on my website but I usually do a bit of EQ and parallel compression so I thought I'd post a raw sample instead. I bought them because I'd always heard that the original AKG 414s were a particularly good mic for recording piano.

Cheers.
Old 1st November 2013 | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
nick8801's Avatar
I really like the way these sound!
Very present and deep. Much more similar to a vintage 414 than the newer ones. Thanks for posting this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by augustusarnone ➑️
Hey, I own a pair of Advanced Audio CM414s. I'm a classical pianist and I use them to record my chamber music concerts. Here's a link to a recording of a piano trio made with two 414s as a spaced pair:

http://www.augustusarnone.com/sounds...o_Trio_Raw.aif

It was recorded using an Allen and Heath ZedR16 console into a Mac. This is the raw recording, no EQ or post-processing. The mics were in omni as a spaced pair about 3-4 ft. in front of the strings, and a bit more than that in front of the piano. The piano probably sounds a bit too distant, I probably need to start spot mic-ing the piano as I'm usually recording this type of small ensemble.

I am NOT a recording engineer, I've read up on it a bit, but just FYI. I hope this is helpful but I'd also be very curious to know what anyone thinks of these mics. I have lots of recordings using them on my website but I usually do a bit of EQ and parallel compression so I thought I'd post a raw sample instead. I bought them because I'd always heard that the original AKG 414s were a particularly good mic for recording piano.

Cheers.
Old 6th November 2013
  #14
Lives for gear
 
augustusarnone's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
re:

Hey Thanks. The owner of the company, Dave Thomas, had told me he tried to get them to sound like vintage 414ebs, and that he used to use those a lot to record piano in his own work at a studio in Vancouver. I don't have enough experience with different mics to comment how they compare but I have liked all the recordings I've made with them and that's enough for me. In this particular case too, I have to say it helps a lot that the string players are just world class. The cellist is a FT member of the Orpheus Chamber Symphony, famous for playing without a conductor, and the violinist is one of the most celebrated contemporary classical music violinists in New York. I think it probably helps a lot if you start with a live sound that is just *ideal* and their intonation and instrumental timbre is just always exceptional. But that aside, I'm excited that the recording at least was able to capture it.
Old 24th February 2016 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Head
 
Hussyh's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by augustusarnone ➑️
Hey, I own a pair of Advanced Audio CM414s. I'm a classical pianist and I use them to record my chamber music concerts. Here's a link to a recording of a piano trio made with two 414s as a spaced pair:

http://www.augustusarnone.com/sounds...o_Trio_Raw.aif

It was recorded using an Allen and Heath ZedR16 console into a Mac. This is the raw recording, no EQ or post-processing. The mics were in omni as a spaced pair about 3-4 ft. in front of the strings, and a bit more than that in front of the piano. The piano probably sounds a bit too distant, I probably need to start spot mic-ing the piano as I'm usually recording this type of small ensemble.

I am NOT a recording engineer, I've read up on it a bit, but just FYI. I hope this is helpful but I'd also be very curious to know what anyone thinks of these mics. I have lots of recordings using them on my website but I usually do a bit of EQ and parallel compression so I thought I'd post a raw sample instead. I bought them because I'd always heard that the original AKG 414s were a particularly good mic for recording piano.

Cheers.
You may not consider yourself a sound engineer, but that is a spectacularly good recording. Perhaps by using great mics, and the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid), you've done it exactly the way it should have been done. Over processing and overcooking is all too common. I've seen clips of mic tests done at Abbey Road studios with 15-20 "real" engineers standing around in the control room looking like intellectual hipsters, and what's coming through the monitors sounds like absolute, utter, ****e.
Old 24th February 2016
  #16
Lives for gear
 
augustusarnone's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Thanks a lot, man. I posted that years ago, hope it was helpful to anyone considering these mics and hope it was a fair representation for the maker. Not long after this I started using the pair in Blumlein and I think they sound best in fig 8, IMHO. I always found the imaging came out really well defined with these in Blumlein and that's what I came to want. With this kind of music the tradeoff from instrument to instrument, the discourse of it, is really important. So I'm sold on Blumlein for rendering the image well.

I agree with you so much about all the manipulation and over-engineering. I never did start spot-micing, I'm convinced 2 mics is the way to go. You ever look at that soundkeeper recordings website? Those recordings sound amazing and the guy that runs it has written some very convincing articles about stereo recording and capturing location. I've grown to dislike close-micing in general, frequency balance always sounds distorted and harsh, and piano is probably the worst. And I don't care for the imaging becoming obscured when you blend all these different mic positions. Just my opinion, what sounds right to me, but anyway I titally agree with you about K.I.S.S.
Old 24th October 2016 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamspade.com ➑️
I plan to pick up a cm414 and/or cm47fet soon and i will come back to this thread with samples.
Hey, I know this is a bit late but do you happen to have those samples handy?
Old 24th October 2016 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Sir Chris's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by augustusarnone ➑️
Thanks a lot, man. I posted that years ago, hope it was helpful to anyone considering these mics and hope it was a fair representation for the maker. Not long after this I started using the pair in Blumlein and I think they sound best in fig 8, IMHO. I always found the imaging came out really well defined with these in Blumlein and that's what I came to want. With this kind of music the tradeoff from instrument to instrument, the discourse of it, is really important. So I'm sold on Blumlein for rendering the image well.

I agree with you so much about all the manipulation and over-engineering. I never did start spot-micing, I'm convinced 2 mics is the way to go. You ever look at that soundkeeper recordings website? Those recordings sound amazing and the guy that runs it has written some very convincing articles about stereo recording and capturing location. I've grown to dislike close-micing in general, frequency balance always sounds distorted and harsh, and piano is probably the worst. And I don't care for the imaging becoming obscured when you blend all these different mic positions. Just my opinion, what sounds right to me, but anyway I titally agree with you about K.I.S.S.
I checked out the sound forge site. Very interesting. Are those recordings done with just 1 stereo pair capturing the whole thing or is it multiple stereo pairs placed at different points and summed down?
Old 25th October 2016
  #19
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Anyone in the market for a multi-polar pattern large diaphragm condensor should seriously look at the new Lewitt LCT640 TS - great sound and ability to change polar pattern in post is super useful. We've done several shootouts with it against the C414 and the Lewitt's deliver a much more linear and fuller sound in my opinion.
Old 27th October 2016 | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
augustusarnone's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Chris ➑️
I checked out the sound forge site. Very interesting. Are those recordings done with just 1 stereo pair capturing the whole thing or is it multiple stereo pairs placed at different points and summed down?
If you look at some of the essays on that site he explains his approach. All done with two Earthworks qtc1's separated by a baffle at a fixed point in relation to the band. When he sid overdubs he would have whoever it was located on stage exactly where they would be in the full group, so that the image stays consistent.
Old 20th November 2016 | Show parent
  #21
Gear Head
 
Jlbabcock's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by augustusarnone ➑️

http://www.augustusarnone.com/sounds...o_Trio_Raw.aif


I am NOT a recording engineer, I've read up on it a bit, but just FYI. I hope this is helpful but I'd also be very curious to know what anyone thinks of these mics. I have lots of recordings using them on my website but I usually do a bit of EQ and parallel compression so I thought I'd post a raw sample instead. I bought them because I'd always heard that the original AKG 414s were a particularly good mic for recording piano.

Cheers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hussyh ➑️
You may not consider yourself a sound engineer, but that is a spectacularly good recording. Perhaps by using great mics, and the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid), you've done it exactly the way it should have been done. Over processing and overcooking is all too common. I've seen clips of mic tests done at Abbey Road studios with 15-20 "real" engineers standing around in the control room looking like intellectual hipsters, and what's coming through the monitors sounds like absolute, utter, ****e.

Sorry to revive this thread.
I just listened to this recording today and I have to say that it is excellent. Very enjoyable augustusarnone, and it's because the musicians are extraordinary and well practiced.

I think this an important lesson because we fool ourselves thinking it's about anything except for that. Get a nice mic, no mater how much it sounds like "mic x" or "mic y" or play your ass off in front of it and you'll be good.
πŸ“ Reply

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