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New monitors LOUD hissing!!!!
Old 19th September 2012
  #1
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
New monitors LOUD hissing!!!!

Hey guys,

I picked up some new KRK RP6 G2's, finally have them connected into my M-Audio Fast Track USB 2:



But I'm greeted with a nasty, loud hissing/buzzing sound. It's rather unbearable and things generally sound pretty bad. Here's a video of the hissing: https://www.dropbox.com/s/09xd79oqpc...2014.14.28.mp4

I'm obviously using unbalanced RCA - RCA due to interface limitations, really hope I don't need an interface upgrade to resolve this issue!!!!!

Has anyone got any ideas?

Cheers

Oli
Old 19th September 2012
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
read the manual about setup/calibration of levels. Could be a problem, but it seems to me to be a simple adjustment. (I did not listen to your files.)
Old 19th September 2012
  #3
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Sounds like a groundloop with the computers powersupply, are you using a laptop ?.

If you are using a laptop, try disconnecting the powersupply and run on battery as a test.
Old 19th September 2012
  #4
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Cheers for the replies. I've just gone through the rokit manual, it's pretty minimal. The only relevance I can find are "If you're connecting an unbalanced output to the monitor, be sure to use pin 2 for signal and have pin 1 / 3 tied together at the source end." .. I'm not sure what that's referring to but it seems to be about an output device, not input.

Also says they should be using their own power circuit, I'll try this now but I highly doubt it'll fix it.

I'm using a desktop.
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #5
Deleted 6ccb844
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by olii ➑️
Cheers for the replies. I've just gone through the rokit manual, it's pretty minimal. The only relevance I can find are "If you're connecting an unbalanced output to the monitor, be sure to use pin 2 for signal and have pin 1 / 3 tied together at the source end." .. I'm not sure what that's referring to but it seems to be about an output device, not input.

Also says they should be using their own power circuit, I'll try this now but I highly doubt it'll fix it.

I'm using a desktop.
I had a similar issue, every time I moved the mouse I would get a ground loop issue... HA! I would sell your interface and replace it with pretty much any half decent things to give you more flexibility. You can get a Saffire Pro 24 for Β£200.00 or probably nearly half that second hand. So it shouldn't be an issue if you can afford the Rokit's ..
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #6
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 6ccb844 ➑️
I had a similar issue, every time I moved the mouse I would get a ground loop issue... HA! I would sell your interface and replace it with pretty much any half decent things to give you more flexibility. You can get a Saffire Pro 24 for Β£200.00 or probably nearly half that second hand. So it shouldn't be an issue if you can afford the Rokit's ..
Damnnit I thought it might come to this :p My noise seems to be constant though, and gets louder when playing audio.

Anyone else have any new ideas? That Saffire 24 looks ideal btw, if I could grab a used one in good condition. You know any good sites besides ebay etc for like refurbs/bstock ?
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by olii ➑️
Cheers for the replies. I've just gone through the rokit manual, it's pretty minimal. The only relevance I can find are "If you're connecting an unbalanced output to the monitor, be sure to use pin 2 for signal and have pin 1 / 3 tied together at the source end." .. I'm not sure what that's referring to but it seems to be about an output device, not input.

Also says they should be using their own power circuit, I'll try this now but I highly doubt it'll fix it.

I'm using a desktop.
Even though you are using a desktop, i still think its some sort of groundloop/ powersupply issue you are having since the sound sounds exactly like the problem i had at our studio where the DAW is run by a laptop. When i disconnected the powersupply only running on battery the sound was gone.

I have the Focusrite LS56 though and a whole network of things that are constantly connected and can cause problems.

I would try different ways of connecting the power to all the pieces, you should always use the same power outlet and always use a outlet panel where you connect all parts of the studio as close together as possible, This is to avoid differences in voltage potential which can cause trouble.

I dont know where you are from, but here in Sweden you can unfortunately turn the power connector 180 degres which means that you can switch phase and neutral which can also possibly make a difference since the phase is live and neutral is connected to the protective ground so they arent really the same. So you can try turning the power connector 180 degres if you live in a country where this is possible.

The signal cable that you mention can also possibly be a problem, what they are suggesting is that pin 3 is connected to signal ground.

Found this pic that seems to describe this type of connection.

Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #8
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neonknight ➑️
Even though you are using a desktop, i still think its some sort of groundloop/ powersupply issue you are having since the sound sounds exactly like the problem i had at our studio where the DAW is run by a laptop. When i disconnected the powersupply only running on battery the sound was gone.

I have the Focusrite LS56 though and a whole network of things that are constantly connected and can cause problems.

I would try different ways of connecting the power to all the pieces, you should always use the same power outlet and always use a outlet panel where you connect all parts of the studio as close together as possible, This is to avoid differences in voltage potential which can cause trouble.

I dont know where you are from, but here in Sweden you can unfortunately turn the power connector 180 degres which means that you can switch phase and neutral which can also possibly make a difference since the phase is live and neutral is connected to the protective ground so they arent really the same. So you can try turning the power connector 180 degres if you live in a country where this is possible.

The signal cable that you mention can also possibly be a problem, what they are suggesting is that pin 3 is connected to signal ground.

Found this pic that seems to describe this type of connection.

Thanks for the reply man, I'm in the UK btw. I don't think I can use any 3 pin, only rca - rca! Anyway, I tried some things out without much luck. I plugged an extension lead in downstairs and ran it up here, with just 1 monitor plugged into it. No difference. After that I plugged my PC into the same extension lead out of curiosity, that seemed to make it worse if anything I think. Unplugged some other stuff too, old speakers, ps3 etc

The noise is only only present with the RCA cables plugged in. There's also a loud pop when powering the PC on/off. The noise starts at the 'Starting Windows' screen upon boot. It's rather odd.. sometimes sounds like it's communicating with the CPU. Any audio played makes the ringing a lot louder, then goes quieter again after 20 seconds or so of silence.

I dunno what else to try really, I've heard balanced cables have less interference, would a new firewire interface with trs - xlr be a valid solution? although one i'd like to avoid if poss due to ££
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #9
Deleted 6ccb844
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by olii ➑️
Thanks for the reply man, I'm in the UK btw. I don't think I can use any 3 pin, only rca - rca! Anyway, I tried some things out without much luck. I plugged an extension lead in downstairs and ran it up here, with just 1 monitor plugged into it. No difference. After that I plugged my PC into the same extension lead out of curiosity, that seemed to make it worse if anything I think. Unplugged some other stuff too, old speakers, ps3 etc

The noise is only only present with the RCA cables plugged in. There's also a loud pop when powering the PC on/off. The noise starts at the 'Starting Windows' screen upon boot. It's rather odd.. sometimes sounds like it's communicating with the CPU. Any audio played makes the ringing a lot louder, then goes quieter again after 20 seconds or so of silence.

I dunno what else to try really, I've heard balanced cables have less interference, would a new firewire interface with trs - xlr be a valid solution? although one i'd like to avoid if poss due to ££
Yup the Rockit's have unbalanced RCA only.. Go on.. Get some more gear and use the balanced input's on the KRK MWAHAHAHA!

Iv'e seen the saffire B-Stock for around 180 at anderton's, but I would search around.. Look at the saffire 14 as well, it's cheaper and might suit your need.. 8 in / 6 out But go 24 if you can.
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #10
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowAMD ➑️
Yup the Rockit's have unbalanced RCA only.. Go on.. Get some more gear and use the balanced input's on the KRK MWAHAHAHA!

Iv'e seen the saffire B-Stock for around 180 at anderton's, but I would search around.. Look at the saffire 14 as well, it's cheaper and might suit your need.. 8 in / 6 out But go 24 if you can.
If I buy a new interface/cables and it doesn't resolve it though I'll flip lol. RCA really that bad? There's obv something else adding/causing it.. god knows what. What you guys think of something like this? Ground loop isolator audio noise hum removal: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

Later on I'm gonna plug my PC into a diff outlet, and unplug EVERYTHING except monitors. USB devices too I guess.
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by olii ➑️
Thanks for the reply man, I'm in the UK btw. I don't think I can use any 3 pin, only rca - rca! Anyway, I tried some things out without much luck. I plugged an extension lead in downstairs and ran it up here, with just 1 monitor plugged into it. No difference. After that I plugged my PC into the same extension lead out of curiosity, that seemed to make it worse if anything I think. Unplugged some other stuff too, old speakers, ps3 etc

The noise is only only present with the RCA cables plugged in. There's also a loud pop when powering the PC on/off. The noise starts at the 'Starting Windows' screen upon boot. It's rather odd.. sometimes sounds like it's communicating with the CPU. Any audio played makes the ringing a lot louder, then goes quieter again after 20 seconds or so of silence.

I dunno what else to try really, I've heard balanced cables have less interference, would a new firewire interface with trs - xlr be a valid solution? although one i'd like to avoid if poss due to ££
Ok, in the UK you have a power connector that you cant turn 180 degres like the european style that we have, so we can at least leave that.

If you havent already i would recommend using a power strip that you connect everything that is used in the studio, computer, computer display, monitor speakers etc. This can be very important to avoid problems.

Work your way methodically connecting piece by piece to find out when the problem starts, start with the essentialls of the studio and go from there.

Using balanced signal can of course help, but it isnt sure to solve the problems, it is generally easy to run into problems with groundloops when connecting equipment which forms a system that is connected to ground in multiple points.
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by olii ➑️
If I buy a new interface/cables and it doesn't resolve it though I'll flip lol. RCA really that bad? There's obv something else adding/causing it.. god knows what. What you guys think of something like this? Ground loop isolator audio noise hum removal: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

Later on I'm gonna plug my PC into a diff outlet, and unplug EVERYTHING except monitors. USB devices too I guess.
I was actually gonna suggest something like the "ground loop isolator" which is actually an audio transformator as a last resort. Since i gather that you want to use your monitors for critical listening it might not be the best solution though since it might affect the audio quality.
Old 19th September 2012
  #13
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
If you go that route i would get the Behringer HD400 instead which is a more pro unit Behringer HD400 - Thomann UK Cyberstore

I actually did get one myself that i was gonna use for our headphone amp that we use for tracking, but didnt have to use it, so i cant say anything about how it sounds. We only track at our rehearsal studio, so we dont do any really critical listening there, we mix at home.

Note that it has uses jacks on the input/outputs.
Old 20th September 2012
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
i use the HD400 between my profire2626 and my powerplay pro-xl headphone amp and it works great.
Old 20th September 2012 | Show parent
  #15
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neonknight ➑️
If you go that route i would get the Behringer HD400 instead which is a more pro unit Behringer HD400 - Thomann UK Cyberstore

I actually did get one myself that i was gonna use for our headphone amp that we use for tracking, but didnt have to use it, so i cant say anything about how it sounds. We only track at our rehearsal studio, so we dont do any really critical listening there, we mix at home.

Note that it has uses jacks on the input/outputs.
Thanks for the replies man. Very useful. Yeah, about the isolators, I've heard they can reduce sound quality a bit too, if this is the case I'd like to avoid that route I guess.

I'm using a power strip (assuming you mean extension lead with multiple sockets) for all peripherals. I've tried messing around, disconnecting etc with no luck :(. Noise was still there with just monitors n PC plugged into the 2nd mains socket (same outlet)... It is possible to run this setup, using rca, no buzz killers, without the noise, correct?! lol
Old 20th September 2012 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by olii ➑️
Thanks for the replies man. Very useful. Yeah, about the isolators, I've heard they can reduce sound quality a bit too, if this is the case I'd like to avoid that route I guess.

I'm using a power strip (assuming you mean extension lead with multiple sockets) for all peripherals. I've tried messing around, disconnecting etc with no luck :(. Noise was still there with just monitors n PC plugged into the 2nd mains socket (same outlet)... It is possible to run this setup, using rca, no buzz killers, without the noise, correct?! lol
The Behringer HD400 actually has very good reviews and i think it will solve your problems although i of course cant guarantee it.

Other possible ways of solving the problem is by using a different signal cable between the interface and monitors.

Either number 17 in the pic below




or the one i mentioned earlier



KRK seems to prefer the later.

Making such cables are probably the only way besides getting the HD400.

And yes it seems that you got the message about the power strip (multiple sockets).
Old 20th September 2012
  #17
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
only get noise IF connected to fasttrack?
what bout other sources like CD/mp3/DVD players?
Old 20th September 2012
  #18
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Hi
HISS has nothing to do with ground loops so in some respects ALL the stuff about cabling is 'rubbish'. Ground loops encourage HUM which is mains power related noise, not hiss which is generally HF 'random' noise, typically produced by incorrectly clocked digital gear (chronic state) or a significant amount of HF 'rubbish' from the various high frequency processes going on in your computer. There could be some mileage in installing ferrite filters on as many cables as possible, audio and power. These are available as 'split cores' which simply clip around the cable so no soldering or any other messing with the cables themselves. Typically a couple of Dollars apiece. It is a matter of experimentation to sort that out.
Those that report noise from hard disk access or mouse operation are usually suffering from HF noise 'reception' and it is the CHANGES in the pattern of the noise that you actually hear (or the result of the effects on the audio amplifiers) as you simply cannot hear a multi MHz clock signal by itself but you can discern 'alterations' to it, and heterodyning with other HF signals.
Matt S
Old 20th September 2012
  #19
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by olii ➑️
Cheers for the replies. I've just gone through the rokit manual, it's pretty minimal. The only relevance I can find are "If you're connecting an unbalanced output to the monitor, be sure to use pin 2 for signal and have pin 1 / 3 tied together at the source end." .. I'm not sure what that's referring to but it seems to be about an output device, not input.

Also says they should be using their own power circuit, I'll try this now but I highly doubt it'll fix it.

I'm using a desktop.
Have KRKs and they hiss, not really loud but loud enough

Its not a ground loop or interference from your monitors.. Also using balanced cables wont help

I think the noise is inherant in the monitors as ive put one of mine on an isolated circuit through a power conditioner as they still emitted a noise...

I dont know if there is anything left to try but also whether all powered monitors do this, id sell them in a flash if i could be convinced that other monitors wont have the same problems....
Old 20th September 2012
  #20
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Hi
On the basis that most 'decent' HiFi amplifiers DON'T hiss it suggests that there is some pretty lazy design work going into (expensive) monitors that DO.
There really is no excuse for it.
Matt S
Old 20th September 2012
  #21
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Syson ➑️
Hi
On the basis that most 'decent' HiFi amplifiers DON'T hiss it suggests that there is some pretty lazy design work going into (expensive) monitors that DO.
There really is no excuse for it.
Matt S
+1000 now ive realised its not my signal chain im pretty pissed with krk... But will the alternatives be any different..
Old 20th September 2012
  #22
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Good input guys thanks. Yeah, I'm currently reviewing all the options... tryna find which one would be best. Considering the HD400 but I'd like optimal quality. I def noticed correlation between the noise and mouse movements etc, and the noise gets louder when playing audio.

Don't think I have any other gear I can try n connect, just the fast track.
I can understand some degree of noise is normal, but not what I'm getting. It's utterly ridiculous.
@Matt that's interesting, can you drop a link on 'split cores'?

My mind is telling me the Fast Track has a lot to do with it and possibly RCA cabling... not sure though. I just can't seem to imagine plugging in trs - xlr and having the same issue, maybe that's just my subconscious mind telling me to upgrade From some threads I've read it did resolve it in a few cases though.

So bummed out. Decisions... not sure what to go for, trying rca - xlr or something, new interface & balanced cables, noise isolater or messing about with cables I have no idea about :P

RCA isn't optimal though correct?
Old 20th September 2012
  #23
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
answer my question, so we can isolate the prob
Old 20th September 2012
  #24
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Hi
If you power off the interface with the speakers connected and the noise goes away then it is not the cabling. Apart from the fact I hate RCA connectors there is nothing 'wrong' with them as an unbalanced connection. If your interface is producing 'hiss' then it makes no difference whether balanced or not. Balancing only helps to reject 'airborne' or conducted interference.
Matt S
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #25
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzxtreme ➑️
answer my question, so we can isolate the prob
Did dude!

Quote:
Originally Posted by olii
Don't think I have any other gear I can try n connect, just the fast track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Syson
Hi
If you power off the interface with the speakers connected and the noise goes away then it is not the cabling. Apart from the fact I hate RCA connectors there is nothing 'wrong' with them as an unbalanced connection. If your interface is producing 'hiss' then it makes no difference whether balanced or not. Balancing only helps to reject 'airborne' or conducted interference.
Matt S
Hey, well my interface is USB powered but yea if the usb cable is unplugged it stops. Thanks for that cable explanation man.

Still deciding what to do :S

Edit: Just unplugged everything else inc USB devices, and GPU. The noise was still there. All I had was the 2 monitors and PC plugged into the same power strip. Monitors make some pretty crazy noises when starting windows too, like dial up! That narrows it down anyway to... pc/interface? How can I tell which one it's coming from?
Old 21st September 2012
  #26
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by olii ➑️
Good input guys thanks. Yeah, I'm currently reviewing all the options... tryna find which one would be best. Considering the HD400 but I'd like optimal quality. I def noticed correlation between the noise and mouse movements etc, and the noise gets louder when playing audio.

Don't think I have any other gear I can try n connect, just the fast track.
I can understand some degree of noise is normal, but not what I'm getting. It's utterly ridiculous.
@Matt that's interesting, can you drop a link on 'split cores'?

My mind is telling me the Fast Track has a lot to do with it and possibly RCA cabling... not sure though. I just can't seem to imagine plugging in trs - xlr and having the same issue, maybe that's just my subconscious mind telling me to upgrade From some threads I've read it did resolve it in a few cases though.

So bummed out. Decisions... not sure what to go for, trying rca - xlr or something, new interface & balanced cables, noise isolater or messing about with cables I have no idea about :P

RCA isn't optimal though correct?
The noise responds to mouse movements? Is the mouse wireless?

My old laptop has a very noisy psu and i get noise from my moving wireless mouse at times and think its the signal from the usb buss leaking into the audio path

If i unplug my psu the noise goes, not great advice as your on a desktop but could well be your psu is contributing somehow
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #27
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubmunkey ➑️
The noise responds to mouse movements? Is the mouse wireless?

My old laptop has a very noisy psu and i get noise from my moving wireless mouse at times and think its the signal from the usb buss leaking into the audio path

If i unplug my psu the noise goes, not great advice as your on a desktop but could well be your psu is contributing somehow
Wired mouse, but yeah it responds to mouse movements and PC activity definitely. I had to put my ear to the speaker to notice it responding to mouse movements, it only gives a slight change in frequency. Makes ridic noises when loading Windows though.

I agree my PSU may be contributing, it's a brand new Corsair though so problem needs to be worked around elsewhere
Old 21st September 2012
  #28
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Hi
It would appear that BOTH the PC and the KRKs are involved with this problem, possibly the interface too.
Firstly the KRKs should have adequate RF filtering to effectively stop them from demodulating reasonably strong RF signals (nothing is totally immune).
Secondly the computer should not be radiating so much. Unfortunately the 'FCC regulations' only say it should not interfere seriously with a selected range of gear.
How you sort this out is I suggest a trip to the KRK dealer with possibly your computer and interface and demonstrate the problem. You may then be able to try alternatives from where you can then decide what to do.
While the 'fashion' is for audio signal paths to extend from DC to 'light' frequencies, the downside is the probability of interference. The response should be 'flat' to say 30 or 40KHz MAXIMUM for a 'monitor speaker' as there is NO WAY that the usual drive units can present anything greater to your ears (unless talking seriously esoteric). so the response should fall quickly and cleanly from this area with heavy filtering from say 50KHz up towards the MegaHz areas.
You are well out of 'fiddling with cables' territory here, unless adding ferrite filters (often seen on computer monitor cables as the moulded lump near the connectors) does the trick.
Matt S
Old 25th September 2012
  #29
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Cheers Matt. I spoke to a KRK rep via email, he think's it's an electrical problem and recommended I see an electrical which isn't possible. The PC is indeed definitely involved and probably the main source, it's all rather weird though and doesn't make much sense to me right now. I think I'm gonna pick up a new interface (firewire) that's externally powered.. I think the USB buss is causing interference
Old 25th September 2012
  #30
Gear Addict
 
Slik dA Relic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
i havent read much of anything here... but have u tried moving just ur setup (a laptop correct) to another room? away from other electronic devices? damn im late.

da relic
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