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New monitors LOUD hissing!!!!
Old 25th September 2012
  #31
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by olii ➑️
Cheers Matt. I spoke to a KRK rep via email, he think's it's an electrical problem and recommended I see an electrical which isn't possible. The PC is indeed definitely involved and probably the main source, it's all rather weird though and doesn't make much sense to me right now. I think I'm gonna pick up a new interface (firewire) that's externally powered.. I think the USB buss is causing interference
Sounds like it to me. On my laptop its a combo of the buss with the psu plugged in... That said they will still make some noise if they are anything like the vxt range
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #32
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik dA Relic ➑️
i havent read much of anything here... but have u tried moving just ur setup (a laptop correct) to another room? away from other electronic devices? damn im late.

da relic
using a desktop bro, but I've ran extension leads up here and unplugged everything else. noise is apparent with nothing but pc & monitors plugged in.
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #33
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Hi
Take your gear to other locations or bring othwer gear in and swap stuff about. use a 'HiFi' amp and speakers instead of the KRKs. Use a different converter or signal source.
It is NOT a cabling issue so either the converter / computer setup is producing the hiss, or your KRKs are over emphasising it.
I presume you have checked your gain staging as the KRKs should be turned DOWN and the levels from the converters UP. Typical settings for monitor out controls of other gear should be with the volume pot at about 7 (scale 1-10) and turn the monitor amps themselves down to suit.
Matt S
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #34
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Syson ➑️
Hi
Take your gear to other locations or bring othwer gear in and swap stuff about. use a 'HiFi' amp and speakers instead of the KRKs. Use a different converter or signal source.
It is NOT a cabling issue so either the converter / computer setup is producing the hiss, or your KRKs are over emphasising it.
I presume you have checked your gain staging as the KRKs should be turned DOWN and the levels from the converters UP. Typical settings for monitor out controls of other gear should be with the volume pot at about 7 (scale 1-10) and turn the monitor amps themselves down to suit.
Matt S
Hey Matt, I can't move my gear, get an electrician in and I don't have anything else to plug in. Even with the monitors on -6 it's still audible.

I'm no electrician. I have no idea about anything to do with power, cabling etc. So I still have no idea what to try/buy. Really frustrating, this issue is so illogical. Driving me insane
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #35
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Hi
You don't need an electrician but you DO need to swap various bits of gear to establish what is the culprit. If you refuse to 'move' then no one can help you.
Matt S
Old 25th September 2012
  #36
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by olii ➑️
Hey Matt, I can't move my gear, get an electrician in and I don't have anything else to plug in. Even with the monitors on -6 it's still audible.

I'm no electrician. I have no idea about anything to do with power, cabling etc. So I still have no idea what to try/buy. Really frustrating, this issue is so illogical. Driving me insane
I'm just as unqualified but am convinced its your psu/usb hub...
Old 25th September 2012
  #37
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
I've plugged in nothing but PC & monitors in various sockets in my house and the problem still remains! I'd say it's my psu/usb hub too!

Edit: oh also, I have a creative xifi PCI soundcard. Would it be worth buying this and seeing if the noise is still there? Could even just try it straight into mobo infact
Old 28th September 2012
  #38
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
I received that RCA to 3.5mm adapter today, plugged it into my motherboard and the interference is still there, also speakers couldn't produce sound.

You guys still think using balanced wouldn't resolve it? I know balanced cables aren't invincible to ground loop issues but less likely due to 2 wires right? Gonna whack my old x-fi sound card in later n try that.. I dunno if PCI slots share the USB bus power or what, gonna guess they don't though. If the same problem occurs my next step will be buying that HD400 mentioned earlier in this thread (how would I connect that though? it uses jacks)
Old 28th September 2012
  #39
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by olii ➑️
I've plugged in nothing but PC & monitors in various sockets in my house and the problem still remains! I'd say it's my psu/usb hub too!

Edit: oh also, I have a creative xifi PCI soundcard. Would it be worth buying this and seeing if the noise is still there? Could even just try it straight into mobo infact
Let me offer further non expert advice

Balanced cables wont help. The Β£40 a pop SOS pseudo balanced cables wont work either

The only time i eradicated the noise on my lappy was running from the battery..sure the noise i was hearing was from the buss but only with the psu in... Conclusion its the signal from my psu that creates the buss noise

The noise would manifest on my fw soundcard. Only way to stop it was running laptop from battery

So, sorry dont have time to reread, i take it the pc isn't new and cant take it back but what is the psu? Internal?
Old 28th September 2012 | Show parent
  #40
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Hi
Balanced cabling used throughout CAN help HUM issues, and with varying degrees of success, HF interference issues, but WILL NOT have anything to do with HISS, so you can mess about wasting time with cables if you wish but you will not resolve it.
Unless it is the 'background' hiss present on all speakers, but more noticable on some then the 'hiss' will be a 'real' signal coming from the converter thus will be present using ANY type of cable.
Do the monitors 'hiss' when there is ONLY power and NO audio cable connected to them?
If they are quiet under this condition then it is a 'signal' that is being put into them that is the problem.
From your earlier posts the noise appears when the cumputer is booting and then to a lesser extent, after it has booted. This says clearly that the computer and or interface have issues and that the 'hiss' is being generated.
You say you are in the UK, there is nowhere that far away in the UK such that you can't take your gear to try with an alternative computer, or different interface.
WIRING is not the problem.
Matt S
Old 29th September 2012
  #41
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Cheers guys, Dub, PSU is a Corsair AX850. The PC isn't really new but the PSU it's self is about 2 months old. I actually had some HF ringing noise coming from the PSU after shutting the PC down, replaced it and same thing occurred. Found a workaround in the bios, disabled the feature that allows the PSU to draw <1W for USB
devices when PC's off.

Ty Matt. The noise stops upon unplugging RCA cables. I've done some testing with that 3.5mm adapter I brought. Noise was still there when plugged into a PCI soundcard. I then plugged it into my monitor (with PC off to stop the noise) and plugged my PS3 in. The results were interesting. For the most part, they were 95% quiet minus the 'normal' slight hum. But at times I noticed some HF noise from 1 speaker (happened with both, but not at the same time), it also seemed to correlate with PS3 controller movements, e.g ringing in a menu then if I'd scroll up it stopped. This noise was FAR, far quieter than the level my PC is having though.

Rather odd no? I might try my older PSU later
Old 3rd October 2012
  #42
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Tried my old PSU... same damn issue. Next stop........ hum destroyer hd400

It could possibly be USB noise from my mobo, def sounds like its coming from there as the interference really 'interacts' with the cpu...

Anyone know how I would connect this to my fast track usb via rca and what cables I need?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-MI.../dp/B000KUD2G4
thanks
Old 4th October 2012
  #43
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by olii ➑️
Tried my old PSU... same damn issue. Next stop........ hum destroyer hd400

It could possibly be USB noise from my mobo, def sounds like its coming from there as the interference really 'interacts' with the cpu...

Anyone know how I would connect this to my fast track usb via rca and what cables I need?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-MI.../dp/B000KUD2G4
thanks
Sorry but thats exactly what i think it is and thought i'd suggested it

On my laptop i get noise from my usb/mobo that amplifies when i move my mouse or when it's doing a big read/write to an external usb drive...it even infiltrated my saffire and came out my krks, laptop now connected to different soundcard, amp and speakers and have same noise

Unplugged psu and noise went away. psu is cause but source is mobo but dont know how you fix it or why it only happens with that soundcard
Old 4th October 2012
  #44
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubmunkey ➑️
Sorry but thats exactly what i think it is and thought i'd suggested it

On my laptop i get noise from my usb/mobo that amplifies when i move my mouse or when it's doing a big read/write to an external usb drive...it even infiltrated my saffire and came out my krks, laptop now connected to different soundcard, amp and speakers and have same noise

Unplugged psu and noise went away. psu is cause but source is mobo but dont know how you fix it or why it only happens with your soundcard
Old 6th October 2012
  #45
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Indeed dub

Can anyone answer my previous question? I'd rather not create a new thread

Anyone know how I would connect this to my fast track usb via rca and what cables I need?
Behringer MICROHD Hum Destroyer HD400: Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments thanks!!
Old 6th October 2012
  #46
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
This for example :

the sssnake SPR2050 - Thomann danske Cyberstore
Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #47
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Hi
As I keep saying, Hiss and Hum are different animals and the 'remedy' for each is almost always different.
Hum destroyers are typivally methods of reducing the influence of grounding related issues. Hiss is different as it is effectively a 'signal' being produced by your system. A hum destroyer won't touch that. The only instance that it might is if it also manages to reduce the typically HF coupling which is emphassising the VHF noises.
Matt S
Old 12th October 2012
  #48
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Hey everyone, cheers.

Matt, after reading your post I decided to buy a cheaper ground loop isolator to try out rather than the Behringer. I brought this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/hq-CAR-NF01-...005166-2699824

...Annndd result! It completely killed all HF noise. Absolutely silent, even when on max volume. Just plugged it into my fast track. Seems like a good enough fix for now, really cheap too. Can't say if it's lost any quality because things are actually sounding clearer now that horrible HF noise & cpu interference has gone.

Really weird issue. I do wonder if a different motherboard would solve it tho, just out of curiosity. For now though, I'm good I guess haha
Old 12th October 2012
  #49
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by olii ➑️
Hey everyone, cheers.

Matt, after reading your post I decided to buy a cheaper ground loop isolator to try out rather than the Behringer. I brought this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/hq-CAR-NF01-...005166-2699824

...Annndd result! It completely killed all HF noise. Absolutely silent, even when on max volume. Just plugged it into my fast track. Seems like a good enough fix for now, really cheap too. Can't say if it's lost any quality because things are actually sounding clearer now that horrible HF noise & cpu interference has gone.

Really weird issue. I do wonder if a different motherboard would solve it tho, just out of curiosity. For now though, I'm good I guess haha
Nice work! Will look into this
Old 14th October 2012
  #50
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Bad news for anyone wondering. The effectiveness of this isolator has decreased over the past few days and the interference is slowly getting more and more noticeable again. I'll probably purchase the behringer hd400 now because this has shown it does work, but, this cheap one is def poor quality. So hopefully the HD400 will hold up better
Old 14th October 2012
  #51
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
A possible solution to noise when using RCAs...

Have you tried making separate runs of your RCA cables from your power cables? Power cables will cause RF noise in your unbalanced RCA cables, and running your power cables along side your RCAs will invite this noise in. It comes from the 60Hz hum that electricity puts out. If you run your RCAs down one side of your desk and your power cables down another, you should be able to eliminate some of this noise.
Old 16th October 2012
  #52
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by olii ➑️
Bad news for anyone wondering. The effectiveness of this isolator has decreased over the past few days and the interference is slowly getting more and more noticeable again. I'll probably purchase the behringer hd400 now because this has shown it does work, but, this cheap one is def poor quality. So hopefully the HD400 will hold up better
Damn! Just got one and had come to thank you again but will now have to see how it fares... A few days?!? Wow...
Old 26th November 2012
  #53
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
I recognize some of you have resolved these issues, and this thread has died down a bit - but I thought I'd share a little information.

I own a computer company that builds high-end pc's for gaming/engineering/audio production, etc. We exclusively build with ASUS boards and Corsair power supplies. I can say without a shadow of a doubt that this occurs more frequently than you would believe with these types of setups. The AX and HX series power supplies are phenomenal, and anything ASUS builds over $200.00 US is typically okay.

I was in a pinch to build something small but powerful for my father, and didn't have the typical equipment in stock that I needed for a weekend project we were working on. I chose instead of use an ASUS P8Z77-M Pro with a Corsair 600 watt non modular power supply, Intel Core i7-3770K with integrated HD4000 graphics, etc. Popped in a firewire card, 240GB SSD and called it good.

Not good at all. I got there with my M-Audio FireWire Solo and experienced the same hiss you have been troubleshooting. I happened to have a M-Audio Fast Track, so I tried that via USB - it actually got worse.

I was able to replicate what you were experiencing to the T: Move the mouse, hissing frequency changed. Obviously I'm not getting any feedback from the SSD, but I did pop in a 2TB drive as a backup and when I made the drive spin up - I heard that through the speakers too.

Because I have a plethora of resources on the computer parts side, I'm going to take it upon myself to find a solution to the dozens of people I've read about with this exact issue. No offense to anyone who has contributed to this forum, as none is intended - but I am shocked that not a single soul has taken Matt's advice here and purchased some Ferrite Filters. That is the first place I am going to start to see if this is a "quick fix" for those who don't want to run out and replace their computer equipment. Once I've completed this portion, I'm going to swap out the power supply, and depending on the results swap out the motherboard. The Fast Track device is not the only inexpensive interface out there being used which produces this annoying situation - so I'm hoping this becomes of help to those who stumble upon it in the future. I'm ordering the filters now, and will likely have them by Wednesday to report back.

Great thread!
Old 26th November 2012 | Show parent
  #54
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Hi Sanctified
I am not an 'expert' with switchmode supplies but as an observation I believe some newer units has a 'spread spectrum' mode which is used to reduce single frequency 'heterodyning' between supplies. It may be that this is a 'source' of some of the 'hiss'. The reason for mentioning it to you is that it may be 'switchable' on some power supply blocks and if so would be worth investigating.
If you are indeed buying significant quantities of supplies it could be instructional to talk to their technical department as there will undoubtedly be solutions.
I have a feeling that this 'spread spectrum' operation is used to help get within FCC rules as 'hiss' is probably more 'acceptable' compared to single frequency disturbance.
I believe motherboards may also have some ability in this respect. Of course we can't hear the VHF involved but the 'difference' frequencies can be demodulated by audio gear.
Plenty of scope for experimentation here!
Matt S
Old 9th December 2012
  #55
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Exact same problem here! :(

Hi all,

Firstly thank you to everyone who has posted here for your suggestions and advice for Olii. I've been experiencing the EXACT same issues, and the advice here as helped me make at least some sense of what is going on.

Olii --> Did you ever manage to resolve your issue at all in the end? Were you able to isolate what was causing the problem, or has it done your head in so much now that you've just settled on a quick fix? (atm the only quick fix I have is to finely tweak all the gains on my audio chain to minimize the weird static / hiss / tapping noise just enough so that at low music levels it's less noticeable and drowns into the music a little. However, being a music producer in my spare time, this is useless as I know those evil signals are still there and muddying up the audio quality whilst I'm producing), so very interested to hear how you're getting on.

Sanctified --> Your post sounds almost exactly like my set up - i.e. high end gaming / audio production PC using a Corsair HX750 PSU and ASUS P8Z77-V Motherboard with a i3570k CPU. Have you had any luck at all with your investigations?

My own experience and some things you guys might want to try if you haven't already:
  • My KRK monitors only make the noise when the computer (desktop) soundcard is connected via cables (doesn't matter if they balanced or RCA, although balanced is slightly less noisy).
  • Unplug the cables and the noise disappears - therefore related to input being fed to monitors as someone mentioned earlier. Not a problem with the monitors.
  • I've unplugged all USB devices, removed GPU, removed Soundcard, removed PCI USB Hub, removed all HDD except boot SSD, removed DVD drive. Noise is still completely present when connecting the monitors to the motherboards own audio output. Therefore not a Soundcard or other connected device issue.
  • Only hardware present is PSU, Motherboard, CPU, RAM and SSD.
  • Noticeable frequency changes present when moving mouse. The static / interference noise also has a very prominent & constant rhythmical "tapping" that does not change in pitch and repeats in what sound like sync'd intervals.

Research suggests that noise linked to mouse movement can be caused by CPU power saving features. Corsair actually recommend turning these off in your BIOS to see if this resolves the problem before RMA'ing a power supply under these conditions. I turned off all the CPU power saving features and it made no difference :( You guys might want to try though in case it helps with your problems. The Guide Is Here

I can totally feel the frustration of everyone else having issues with this! Trying to isolate what's causing the problem is incredibly hard (seems impossible) for those of us who don't quite understand about grounding, power, cable specs, radio frequency etc. I've done everything I can in terms of being methodical to find a solution and still at a complete loss.

I suspect it could be the PSU as if I put my head right next to it I can hear a VERY VERY faint noise similar to what I hear when amplified. Also if I plug a laptop into the speakers and play a CD, there is no noise whatsoever, so it's not my Mixer (Makie Big Knob). Not sure if it could be a Motherboard problem also though?Giving dodgy power signal to everything connected to it?

Any advice or things to try would be very much appreciated please- I'll try anything at this stage which won't require spending loads of money on new hardware.

Failing any resolution, I'll be RMA'ing the Corsair HX750 PSU in a couple of weeks (need the PC for work until Chrismas Hols start), and if it gets to that point I'll let you guys also having problems (Oli / Dub / Sanctified) know whether it made any difference or not.

Thanks all
Old 9th December 2012 | Show parent
  #56
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Hi
You are connecting an audio amplifier directly to a small radio transmitter which 'broadcasts' at a variety of frequencies so some 'interference' is inevitable.
While returning a power supply to it's manufacturer is 'possible' I doubt it is actually the 'solution' as it is probably not faulty, it provides power to your computer which it DOES do correctly.
It will be a combination of power supply (only vaguely related) Motherboard layout (again only some guilt) the BOX and whether it is truly EMI compliant to a degree necessary for attaching 'audio' circuitry and to varying extents the exact activities of bios and software.
The power supply and of course the 'major' clocks of a computer cannot be heard but 'alterations' to the various signals will create a 'disturbance' which will be demodulated by audio circuitry, be it drive access, mouse movement or whatever.
Using one or more ferrite cores on ALL cabling attached to the computer or indeed on any other cables in your rig MAY effect a cure. May not be overly scientific but bear in mind your mobile phones work well in many places but possibly no signal 'just around a corner'.
Matt S
Old 9th December 2012
  #57
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Hi Matt,

Many thanks for your post.

Please excuse my ignorance here, but when you say I'm plugging into a 'small radio transmitter', I'm not sure I follow. I guess there's a bunch of electro magnetic interference inside a computer, but I've never experienced this kind of problem before with other PC's using the exact same audio equipment (if i plug my KRK's into a laptop or my old PC there's no unexpected issues, just the standard minimal airy amplification noise as you increase the gain to loud levels).

Also, I'm guessing (again) that something must be faulty, otherwise this kind of problem would be incredibly common place. ASUS & Corsair are two of the largest manufacturers of Motherboards and PSU's respectively. I could be wrong but sureky loads of people would be having this problem otherwise, i.e. if it's just standard side affect of computing components assembled together?

Incidentally if I plug headphones into my mixer or the mic output on the motherboard the noise is unbearable. I.e. even at volume 1 the noise / interference sound / tapping is very loud and noticeable above music etc - even someone non techy would realise something was wrong and there would be reports all over the place.

With regards to the PSU noise, I'm no expert but Corsair themselves do seem to acknowledge something called "PSU Whine" - something to do with a potential capacitor problem or something. Not sure if it's that or something else, or a combination of things.

Any idea what the very constant rhythmical tapping sound could be? You note about us only being able to pick up on alterations in clocks is interesting because I do hear those changes when moving the mouse etc. But the tapping noise is constant and consistent in pitch and speed.

Appreciate your expertise here btw Matt, you obviously know a huge amount more than I do about this whole area, so thanks.

p.s. I'll go and get some of those ferrite cores / chokes in the next few days, - just a quick question though - do I really need one for EVERY cable inside the computer? If one lead splits, do I just need to choke the main lead, e.g. a power lead from PSU which splits into multiple leads to power say 4 hard drives?

Thanks again
Old 9th December 2012 | Show parent
  #58
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Hi
Simply put, any conductor (cable or bit of metal) is an aerial, either 'transmitting' if is being fed with current, or a receiver. How much and the frequency is determined by it's length.

I am suggesting ferrite cores on cables OUTSIDE the computer's box, as close to the computer as possible. Some of the signals inside are at 'microwave' frequencies and a perfectly acceptable transmitting or receiving 'aerial' will only be a few inches long (someone care to calculate it for say 2.4GHz please?).
With the degree of variability of ALL the components in a setup even quite subtle changes can make all the difference.
If you are inclined to add ferrite cores inside the computer box as well bear in mind that cores CAN be electrically conductive so you must make sure they have insulation or are fixed so they can't move about and cause a 'short'.
Annecdotally, I heard a story about a studio suffering pickup from a local radio station which was 'cured' by making the mains cable on a particular piece of gear a foot shorter (chop the plug off and put a new one on a foot further along) which simply 'detuned' the 'aerial' that was the mains cable.
There COULD be an issue with your power supply as well but unless they are specifically promising 'exceedingly low EMI radiation' then they may be well within their right to turn your request down.
Fully 'screened' computer cases which have proper EMI 'gaskets' along ALL opening edges, covers on all holes etc are expensive but may be what is necessary for a 'silent' system.
It would be good to hear if 'Sanctified' managed to have time to look at this issue and offer some comments.
The problem seems to be that some monitors (audio) are more susceptable to 'conducted or radiated RF noise' than others, and with the wide variety of computer assemblies possible, even down to twisting of internal wires, it is quite difficult to say exactly which permutations will be fine and which will have problems.
Best of luck with your investigations.
Matt S
Old 10th December 2012
  #59
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Thank You Matt

I've ordered some Ferrite Cores and will let everyone know if they made a difference once I get them.

With regards to RMA, I've already had the RMA approved. The guy i spoke to agreed that I should not be experiencing such a bit problem with EMI through my speakers when connected to the PC, especially when amplification is so low (I can't turn them up past about volume 2 or 3 of 40 without the noise being clearly audible from where I'm sitting about 6 feet away).

My gut feeling is that if this level of EMI were within tolerance range, then practically everyone with speakers connected to their desktop computer would be having problems. People turn their PC speakers up to all sorts of levels without issues. As this is not the case and most peoples experience is just fine (as was mine with my old PC, and laptop), there must be something in my new machine that's not operating within expected tolerance.

Either that, OR a combination of hardware components / transmitters is generating a conflict or increased interference (I don't know enough to understand whether this is a possibility or not though really).
Old 12th January 2013 | Show parent
  #60
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Wow we're in exactly the same boat, only my problem is even weirder:
Very strange hiss / background noise

Same symtoms exactly!
πŸ“ Reply

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