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Is it me? Or is it my gear? (An endless route to a better mix?)
Old 16th September 2012
  #31
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Temple of Light's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The fact you are even suggesting to track and mix metal in the box is your answer...
all technicalities aside, really.
Old 16th September 2012
  #32
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The Elf's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I track and mix metal ITB and it hasn't harmed my career or my clients' sales - and no-one would know or care. It's really not an issue.
Old 16th September 2012
  #33
Gear Nut
 
Kevaso's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Yea, like Elf is saying - my mixing issue have nothing to do with with the fact that I mix ITB, nor with the gear I use. (I sum OTB though).


What I need to figure out is if my mixes don't meet my standards because of

a) Bad mixing
b) Bad engineering
c) Bad acoustics
d) All of the above

I lean towards D - but mostly A.

Cause I believe that I should be able to get a better mix from what I have recorded.

But I see a glimpse of light in the end of the tunnel. Cause the more I mix what I have recorded the more I start realizing what I should have done different during mic placement, and in turn the more I get the mic placement right (and pre mic sound) I will probably notice if I have any acoustic problems. And repeat. Next time I record the same type of source I will know what problems I had during mixing the last time. And then during that mix I will notice other problems that I can fix next time. Repeat until perfect. (years)

Or am I way off :P

And I feel confident that as long as I can identify the problems (even thought it's as late as in the mixing stage) I'm on the right way at becoming better engineer/mixer.
Old 17th September 2012
  #34
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popmann's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
If you're going to speed this learning process up, you HAVE to remove variables. Have someone mix. OR...take a band into a good studio to track and take it home and play with mixing.

If you're playing...and forbid sequencing everything...and tracking...and mixing...and mastering...when you don't have experience, it's like someone handing you a guitar and you're wondering why your playing one month in doesn't sound like your favorite recording artist on their record.

Engineering is a whole other instrument. At least. Arguably, like a bunch of different instruments. How long would it take you to get competent at piano? Would you expect to be proficient because someone bought you a nice piano? Of course not. Why is engineering a record front to back different?
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #35
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psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevaso ➑️
Totally correct - but that still wont help me in getting any better IMHO. Well, I'll get better at using samples - but not in mixing/engineering music like a whole.

Samples should be a way out, not a way in.
I think you've got quite a narrow-minded view of this.

Samples are simply a different aesthetic, particularly when used in a metal context. The sound of modern metal (slipknot being a good example) is the sound of samples. If you want that sound - you have to use samples. It's not cheating any more than using an 808 in hip hop is - it's the sound of the genre, and you won't get there any other way.

Now - if you're using samples to rescue a recording, or to fake something that could be done acoustically, or to fix an inconsistent drummer - then I'd agree it's cheating (up to a point). There's no shame in doing it if it improves the end result, but it's lazy engineering to record with the intention of using samples, if the genre doesn't specifically require it.

Regarding your original post, it's difficult to give advice without hearing a) where you're at at the moment and b) what recording style you're aiming for. It could be you've perfected the style you're aiming at; it could be you're in completely the wrong direction.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #36
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beingmf's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I think I know where you come from, and there's a cure: "Don't try to make it sound 'good', make it sound 'balanced' in the first place". Plus: "It's ALL in the mid range".

When I first approached a mix with this premise, it was really easy to quickly build the foundation for a really good mix. I simply tried to imagine the "space" or the "stage", and thus could visualize the levels and the distribution of frequencies.
Like someone pointed out some replies ago, you should learn to actually hear the positions of the instruments by their frequency content. That way the listener can focus on the important elements and the supporting elements. That's what I mean by "balanced".

And, above all: re-listen to where exactly those frequencies actually are. When I started out, I used to mix far too bassy, because I thought that "bass" always means 30-50, haha. Nowadays, this area mostly means "rumble" to me. Similar misconceptions apply to top end ("clarity" vs. "digital harshness"/"too much in front").
I think once you sort that out, mixing will finally be fun. Good luck!
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #37
Gear Nut
 
Kevaso's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann ➑️
If you're going to speed this learning process up, you HAVE to remove variables. Have someone mix. OR...take a band into a good studio to track and take it home and play with mixing.

If you're playing...and forbid sequencing everything...and tracking...and mixing...and mastering...when you don't have experience, it's like someone handing you a guitar and you're wondering why your playing one month in doesn't sound like your favorite recording artist on their record.

Engineering is a whole other instrument. At least. Arguably, like a bunch of different instruments. How long would it take you to get competent at piano? Would you expect to be proficient because someone bought you a nice piano? Of course not. Why is engineering a record front to back different?
Very good advice and very true I believe - If I had the chance to do it this way I definitely would.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #38
Gear Nut
 
Kevaso's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️
I think you've got quite a narrow-minded view of this.

Samples are simply a different aesthetic, particularly when used in a metal context. The sound of modern metal (slipknot being a good example) is the sound of samples. If you want that sound - you have to use samples. It's not cheating any more than using an 808 in hip hop is - it's the sound of the genre, and you won't get there any other way.

Now - if you're using samples to rescue a recording, or to fake something that could be done acoustically, or to fix an inconsistent drummer - then I'd agree it's cheating (up to a point). There's no shame in doing it if it improves the end result, but it's lazy engineering to record with the intention of using samples, if the genre doesn't specifically require it.

Regarding your original post, it's difficult to give advice without hearing a) where you're at at the moment and b) what recording style you're aiming for. It could be you've perfected the style you're aiming at; it could be you're in completely the wrong direction.
Well maybe I am narrow minded then - and you probably would be the right one to know, right?

But I say it again, as before - I have no problem with people using samples. But I, and by 'I' I mean 'ME', not 'YOU', want to be able to get a good result without using samples. I couldn't give a horses a** on how you achieve YOUR sounds.

Cause I still mean that I should be able to get a better sounding mix without samples. (Not better than samples, but better than how my mixes are now). Yes, samples gives you another sound, and they sound great - but I want to make it work WITHOUT samples first. When I come to the point where I understand that the sound I'm looking for is not achievable without samples, then I will use it. But for now I know that the sound I'M looking for is achievable without.

And in the case if referring to 'Slipknot' I would have to say I think THAT is a very narrow view - you really can't find any band I would find more boring.
And understand this - I'm not saying that 'Slipknot' IS boring - I'm only saying that --> I <-- think they are. That sound is not what I'm aiming for.

And, with a grain of salt, if, what you say that 'Slipknot' is the sound of samples - then I'll definitely don't want to use it.

Just leave the samples for now everyone - If anyone is still interested in discussing this please find another thread. Some people actually get in here and drop great advice - I do not have the time to defend myself for not wanting to use samples every 4 posts.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #39
Gear Nut
 
Kevaso's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by beingmf ➑️
I think I know where you come from, and there's a cure: "Don't try to make it sound 'good', make it sound 'balanced' in the first place". Plus: "It's ALL in the mid range".

When I first approached a mix with this premise, it was really easy to quickly build the foundation for a really good mix. I simply tried to imagine the "space" or the "stage", and thus could visualize the levels and the distribution of frequencies.
Like someone pointed out some replies ago, you should learn to actually hear the positions of the instruments by their frequency content. That way the listener can focus on the important elements and the supporting elements. That's what I mean by "balanced".

And, above all: re-listen to where exactly those frequencies actually are. When I started out, I used to mix far too bassy, because I thought that "bass" always means 30-50, haha. Nowadays, this area mostly means "rumble" to me. Similar misconceptions apply to top end ("clarity" vs. "digital harshness"/"too much in front").
I think once you sort that out, mixing will finally be fun. Good luck!
Also good advice - thanks.
Old 17th September 2012
  #40
Gear Nut
 
Kevaso's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
But, anyone got a good tip for keeping kick and snare in fast music at a more constant level? Not like a triggered drum where everything hit sound the same - I like to leave the dynamics in the drums. But my drummer, even though he is very consistent and all that, don't hit as hard, obviously, on the faster parts as the slow.

And I'm talking mostly about different parts of the song, not random hits in-between - more like when going from a groove to a blast-beat i.e.

Compression? Limiting? Automation?

Cause I really don't have any problem with the drums except that the faster parts (really fast) are not as loud as I want them to be. I do not want it to sound like the faster parts are played as hard as the grooves, it's more of a general volume thing.

Maybe just raise the volume and let the compression work the same way, or put it on another track with another compressor?

As I'm writing this I feel it would be 'best' to have a dedicated track to each type of volume on the drums. Like 'fast'n'soft' + 'slow'n'hard'. Same EQ(ish) on both but a different comp. Maybe some more high fq to make it cut through on the faster parts. And this is only for the kick and snare ofc.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #41
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dualflip ➑️
You talk about samples as if you were athletes talking about steroids. Theres nothing wrong with using samples, A lot of the top mixers use them, if it sounds great then it doesnt matter if you used a sample or not, I still dont get why people feel remorse for using drums samples, seems to me like the end result is what matters.
Exactly - it is the end result that matters, and that's why many people have problems with them. If you like the sound you get with drum samples - great, it's your personal taste and nothing wrong with that.
Sampled sound does sound different and so you have to accept in return that not everybody loves what sampling and extensive quantization does to a song. Even if it is state-of-the-art, hip and posh with current metal productions - fine, but you don't have to run after every trend, do you?
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #42
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Kevaso's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chk23 ➑️
Even if it is state-of-the-art, hip and posh with current metal productions - fine, but you don't have to run after every trend, do you?
Old 17th September 2012
  #43
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevaso ➑️
Well maybe I am narrow minded then - and you probably would be the right one to know, right?

But I say it again, as before - I have no problem with people using samples. But I, and by 'I' I mean 'ME', not 'YOU', want to be able to get a good result without using samples. I couldn't give a horses a** on how you achieve YOUR sounds.

Cause I still mean that I should be able to get a better sounding mix without samples. (Not better than samples, but better than how my mixes are now). Yes, samples gives you another sound, and they sound great - but I want to make it work WITHOUT samples first. When I come to the point where I understand that the sound I'm looking for is not achievable without samples, then I will use it. But for now I know that the sound I'M looking for is achievable without.

And in the case if referring to 'Slipknot' I would have to say I think THAT is a very narrow view - you really can't find any band I would find more boring.
And understand this - I'm not saying that 'Slipknot' IS boring - I'm only saying that --> I <-- think they are. That sound is not what I'm aiming for.

And, with a grain of salt, if, what you say that 'Slipknot' is the sound of samples - then I'll definitely don't want to use it.

Just leave the samples for now everyone - If anyone is still interested in discussing this please find another thread. Some people actually get in here and drop great advice - I do not have the time to defend myself for not wanting to use samples every 4 posts.
You missed the main point of my post. Without hearing where you're at now, and where you want to be, it's very difficult to advise you - if anyone is in the position to advise you of course.

Regarding the samples, I also think you missed what I was saying. I'm not saying you should use them, and I don't particularly like slip knot either - just that that's a good example of a sound it's impossible to get without them. Samples are NOT a crutch when used to achieve an aesthetic; that was what I was disagreeing with. Whether you want to take that approach or not is up to you.

But again - without audio examples, every piece of advice you receive is shooting in the dark.
Old 17th September 2012
  #44
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
Try to get some lessons!

Exactly how you can do that may not be obvious.

But if you really want to learn - you will find a way

Thank you that will be $10
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #45
Gear Nut
 
Kevaso's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️
You missed the main point of my post.
Then maybe you shouldn't start by calling me narrow minded - kinda draws my attention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️
But again - without audio examples, every piece of advice you receive is shooting in the dark.
I've already gotten tons of useful tips regarding general mixing. If you want to advice me by listening to my stuff first then just ask - or wait till I post it.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #46
Gear Nut
 
Kevaso's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules ➑️
Try to get some lessons!

Exactly how you can do that may not be obvious.

But if you really want to learn - you will find a way

Thank you that will be $10
Sorry, I only have NOK (norwegian kroner).

Here, take 56NOK.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #47
Lives for gear
 
The Elf's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules ➑️
Try to get some lessons!

Exactly how you can do that may not be obvious.
I do audio engineering/production 1-2-1s and workshops all over the world - in fact I am about to set up a maximum 6-attendee workshop in Lincolnshire, UK.

If you're interested you know where I am!
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #48
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dualflip's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️
I think you've got quite a narrow-minded view of this.

Samples are simply a different aesthetic, particularly when used in a metal context. The sound of modern metal (slipknot being a good example) is the sound of samples. If you want that sound - you have to use samples. It's not cheating any more than using an 808 in hip hop is - it's the sound of the genre, and you won't get there any other way.

Now - if you're using samples to rescue a recording, or to fake something that could be done acoustically, or to fix an inconsistent drummer - then I'd agree it's cheating (up to a point). There's no shame in doing it if it improves the end result, but it's lazy engineering to record with the intention of using samples, if the genre doesn't specifically require it.

Regarding your original post, it's difficult to give advice without hearing a) where you're at at the moment and b) what recording style you're aiming for. It could be you've perfected the style you're aiming at; it could be you're in completely the wrong direction.
Agreed, and I must add, when it comes to music I think theres not such thing as cheating, may that be samples or autotune or whatever, it may be considered cheating if you steal someone elses song or by doing the Mili Vanilli thing were the singers were "ghost" singers, whatever, but aside from that, I think that whatever works its allowed, the end result is what matters, they are just tools, I still dont get why people feel remorse or shame for using them.
Old 17th September 2012
  #49
Gear Nut
 
Kevaso's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
So - here are some dry drums and some processed.

I'm happy with the snare but not the kick. When it comes to overheads I have no idea what I'm doing when mixing - in the rest of the song I hear that the OH pick up to much HH and the snare really shifts to the left in the OH mics. I'll get that better next time. The kick is too floppy and cardboard. I think the kick was too muffled when recording and I should have tried a SM7b closer to the beater.
Attached Files

MIX PRINT_06.wav (7.35 MB, 59 views)

MIX PRINT_12.wav (7.08 MB, 134 views)

Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #50
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevaso ➑️
Then maybe you shouldn't start by calling me narrow minded - kinda draws my attention.
Don't take it so personally - I didn't say YOU were narrow-minded, I said saying that using samples is always a crutch is a narrow minded view, and went on to explain why. I actually agreed with your viewpoint in some circumstances!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevaso ➑️
I've already gotten tons of useful tips regarding general mixing. If you want to advice me by listening to my stuff first then just ask - or wait till I post it.
I did ask! If all you want are "general mixing tips" that's easy - we can all spout some off....but it'll be like flinging a sticky substance of your choice at a wall to see what sticks...it won't be targeted advice, and some all or none of it might be useful.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #51
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevaso ➑️
So - here are some dry drums and some processed.

I'm happy with the snare but not the kick. When it comes to overheads I have no idea what I'm doing when mixing - in the rest of the song I hear that the OH pick up to much HH and the snare really shifts to the left in the OH mics. I'll get that better next time. The kick is too floppy and cardboard. I think the kick was too muffled when recording and I should have tried a SM7b closer to the beater.
OHs - if you measure the OH mics so they're equidistant from the snare strike point, you'll find that the snare stays in the centre of the stereo picture, and also you'll find that the hat is relatively quieter. You rarely end up with overheads being even in height in this setup (and I find the kick ends up being a little more to one side, which with close miking isn't usually an issue).

Otherwise...it all just sounds a little bit dull for the style of playing. This could be down to kit tuning, most likely the room (sounds like a very small dead sort of space?), and mic positioning.
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #52
Gear Nut
 
Kevaso's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️
OHs - if you measure the OH mics so they're equidistant from the snare strike point, you'll find that the snare stays in the centre of the stereo picture, and also you'll find that the hat is relatively quieter. You rarely end up with overheads being even in height in this setup (and I find the kick ends up being a little more to one side, which with close miking isn't usually an issue).

Otherwise...it all just sounds a little bit dull for the style of playing. This could be down to kit tuning, most likely the room (sounds like a very small dead sort of space?), and mic positioning.
Honestly I just forgot to adjust the OHs to the snare and to phase check everything - (it is just a quick 1 minute birthday song for a friend, and this was really just to put some drums on it - gonna record them again when the rest of the songs are ready.)

The HH gets quieter? Why?

Yea, I agree it's a dull sound, now - but not really that far from that 'organic' sound we're looking for - like, we don't want too much click in the kick and such. If it's to any help we want a little bit of 'dirty' sound on the drums.

The kit is probably far from tuned right, and the heads are old. We're actually waiting for new heads for a 'real' recording.

And the room is quite small 3.5 x 4.5 meters (11.5 x 14.7 feet) or so, maybe less - I don't remember. And the ceiling is quite low with no treatment - at this point. I have the panels - just haven't put them up there yet. Also I don't really know with a low ceiling if you should place the OHs close to the kit or ceiling. Also there was no room mic in this setup. Only OH's and close-miced.

Any way to compensate for a small room? Underhead mic's maybe?

When we are going to record our own demo/ep I do have a bigger room available if I cant get it to work in the small room - but then I would have to move all the gear to another building. That room is more like 8x8 meters with a 4 meter ceiling. Typical industrial acoustic treatment all over the ceiling. (Those 'soft' panels with lots of holes in them). No treatment on the walls though, and a lot of windows.

The room I recorded these drums in only have treatment on the rear wall(s) (corner) and nothing on the wall(s) in 'front' of the kick. And the drums are places as close into this corner without getting cramped. Like 50-100 cm away from the walls.
Old 18th September 2012
  #53
Deleted 6ccb844
Guest
Pretty much I only do Metal, it is difficult and horrible to mix.. I actually had to do a lot of lurking on the sneap and ERMZ forums. Them guys really do know there stuff, some of the tricks even some of these N00b's are coming out with are amazing.

So 1, guitars are your natural enemy.. Bass is your natural enemy, Drums are your natural enemy LOL get the picture.. Combine it together and it's pretty much hell..

You really need to get a tight bass and mid low end for metal..

1. Filter as much as you possibly get away with Guitars 18 - 24dB per octave 60 - 120 hz if needed, LPF between 8KHZ - 13KHZ.. Bass 24 dB Octave from 40 - 60 if using 5 / 6 strings. LPF the bass to around 2 - 3K even more if you need to create space for vocals and guitars.. It sounds low, but if you split it from 40 - 500 then 500 - 1.5K add some distortion you will still get a twang and it will fit with the guitars like a dream. Then you have drums etc. etc.

2. Work with a Limiter on the master, it's very much standard practice in metal.. You have a lot going on with different amount's of transients. You can shoot your self in the foot when you make loud mixes and your snare disappears into nothingness due to a limiter. Also it let's you know how much compression you need on every track, especially using drum plugs, aim is for it to sound as natural as possible. Adding too much compression can really screw with that.

3. Watch carefully for phase, anything in such a tight style of music to make it any otherwise is a big no no.

4. Guitar distortion levels can make the difference between a lo-fi and hi-fi production select carefully and make sure it works for the mix, not how it sounds like on it's own.

There is so much more, but I'm getting hand cramp.. Start with that and work your way..
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #54
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dualflip's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Elf ➑️
I track and mix metal ITB and it hasn't harmed my career or my clients' sales - and no-one would know or care. It's really not an issue.
Let me add something a bit off-topic here, over the years ive noticed that most people dont care about equipment, they do appreciate a big desk and flashy equipment, but they dont care that much. The ones that care the most, are either engineers or musicians who read magazines or gearslutz.

I dont want to sound rude, but theres nothing worse than a musician who suddenly got bit by the engineering bug and after some reading here and there, he wants to instruct you on how to do things, or wants to give you a great advice he found out called MS technique, or paralel compression....

Honestly those clients drive me mad, even if they are really nice guys I cant stand that. Dont get me wrong, I dont mind creative suggestions, but when they start asking me stuff like "Are you sure that you set the mic on cardiod?" I want to choke them to death.
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #55
Deleted 6ccb844
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by dualflip ➑️
Let me add something a bit off-topic here, over the years ive noticed that most people dont care about equipment, they do appreciate a big desk and flashy equipment, but they dont care that much. The ones that care the most, are either engineers or musicians who read magazines or gearslutz.

I dont want to sound rude, but theres nothing worse than a musician who suddenly got bit by the engineering bug and after some reading here and there, he wants to instruct you on how to do things, or wants to give you a great advice he found out called MS technique, or paralel compression....

Honestly those clients drive me mad, even if they are really nice guys I cant stand that. Dont get me wrong, I dont mind creative suggestions, but when they start asking me stuff like "Are you sure that you set the mic on cardiod?" I want to choke them to death.
It's true, but I always remind them they are paying me for a service. If they knew exactly what to do, what the hell would they need me for?
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #56
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevaso ➑️
Honestly I just forgot to adjust the OHs to the snare and to phase check everything - (it is just a quick 1 minute birthday song for a friend, and this was really just to put some drums on it - gonna record them again when the rest of the songs are ready.)

The HH gets quieter? Why?
haha that's ok, you didn't mention that before!

I generally find that when my OH mics are lined up via the snare, because the snare is to the RHS (as you look at the kit), the RHS OH is higher...so further away from the hat....so the hat will get quieter. In your example, the snare pulls to the right, so it must be too close to the snare on the RHS...so you need to raise the mic. As the snare gets quieter in that OH, so will the HH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevaso ➑️
Yea, I agree it's a dull sound, now - but not really that far from that 'organic' sound we're looking for - like, we don't want too much click in the kick and such. If it's to any help we want a little bit of 'dirty' sound on the drums.
Cool - the only problem you'll find is that if you want your guitars/bass upfront, the kick won't cut through. The reason older records have thuddier kicks is there's little to no low bass end; as soon as you add that bass end in, you lose the kick thud, so need the click to keep it present. It's always a trade-off...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevaso ➑️
And the room is quite small 3.5 x 4.5 meters (11.5 x 14.7 feet) or so, maybe less - I don't remember. And the ceiling is quite low with no treatment - at this point. I have the panels - just haven't put them up there yet. Also I don't really know with a low ceiling if you should place the OHs close to the kit or ceiling. Also there was no room mic in this setup. Only OH's and close-miced.

Any way to compensate for a small room? Underhead mic's maybe?


When we are going to record our own demo/ep I do have a bigger room available if I cant get it to work in the small room - but then I would have to move all the gear to another building. That room is more like 8x8 meters with a 4 meter ceiling. Typical industrial acoustic treatment all over the ceiling. (Those 'soft' panels with lots of holes in them). No treatment on the walls though, and a lot of windows.

The room I recorded these drums in only have treatment on the rear wall(s) (corner) and nothing on the wall(s) in 'front' of the kick. And the drums are places as close into this corner without getting cramped. Like 50-100 cm away from the walls.

Treatment isn't necessarily an issue for tracking rooms - if it sounds good already, it doesn't need to sound "perfect".

you might not need a massive sounding room in your recordings anyway - "vintage" metal stuff doesn't have a lot in many cases (early maiden etc) but then the 80s stuff can do - but that's not really your reference point is it?

Otherwise, there's not a great deal of point recording a room mic if the room is small and dead. Better to try and fake it with a good sounding room verb. Underheads are just a different way of recording overheads, not really room mics.

All of the above is IMO!
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #57
Gear Maniac
 
IdiotManchild's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
OP,

You ask for mixing advice, but the samples of your song you posted are just drums. It is impossible to create a mix of a band while hearing only one instrument. It is also impossible to advise you on how to create a mix if the only instrument we can hear are drums.

Regarding the samples you posted, the drummer is making mistakes on the kick drum. Bad performance = bad mix. Fix that **** by having him play it right. If he can't play it right then edit it, if possible, to sound like he did. It will make mixing much easier.

Mixing isn't about radically transforming good recordings, it's just balancing them. Balancing volumes, frequencies, etc...
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #58
Gear Maniac
 
eastsidetone's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevaso ➑️
I understand how people see it as more challenging - but I don't think it will be harder for me to get good sounds without samples. Not because I'm a genius or something like that, just because I like a more "natural" sound - I'm not looking for that over-processed sound. And ofc - I'm not going for 1978 kick-drum sound ... but you get it. Also with samples I think I would drown in the possibilities and never be happy with the result. It will still be hard getting a good sound w/o samples, but I wouldn't be more happy with them.




I totally agree. Huge + huge + huge = cramped. In my head: small + small + small = HUGE. Thats also one of the reasons I want to actually record only one guitar and rather play with multiple amps and fx. One thing about my band is that we actually want to record something that we can stand for when it comes to a live performance. When it comes to the sound in the room we are safe - also when it comes to playing tight we are def safe.

And I'll try the 20hz highpass on the 2bus
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Elf ➑️
It would be better to clean up those lows before they hit the master buss. And I'd go further. I would consider 30Hz as your extreme low.

I mix a lot of rock/metal of various styles - with a busy mix you have to be VERY sparing with the sub-100Hz region to get a mix sounding big. You'd be startled where the frequency of some of my HPF's end up - even on bass guitar!
I cut from all the tracks too, it's more of a supplemental thing so I know that it's really getting killed.

When I near the finishing stages of a mix I tend to sweep it until i find the "sweet spot" sometimes it winds up closer to the 35 hz range depending on what it is.

Never lower then 20hz though.
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I tend to just overdub the same guitar twice, with the same settings and do the usual panning trick that everyone else does.

but sometimes.............

For a massive sound I record an extra overdub with completely different settings and subtly mix it in with the other two guitar tracks. I just leave it in mono while the other two are panned left and right.

speaking of bass guitars...

I think if you lucky enough to find a bass with great harmonics then you can really cut the hell out them and your ears/brain will trick you into thinking it sounds just as bassey
Old 19th September 2012
  #59
Lives for gear
 
mattjew24's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Mixing is virtually impossible if the song arrangement doesn't work!
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #60
Lives for gear
 
Jimsi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjew24 ➑️
Mixing is virtually impossible if the song arrangement doesn't work!
This sums up most problems on GS.....
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