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For all the Behringer haters
Old 18th May 2006
  #1
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pingu's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
For all the Behringer haters

Ive heard some rumors that Behringer steal other manufacturers ideas and implement them in there own units.

Is there any proof of this.
Old 18th May 2006
  #2
Gear Nut
 
jenkel16's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
their new lineof bass amps look suspiciously like the Hartke Kickback series
Old 18th May 2006
  #3
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DrDeltaM's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pingu
Ive heard some rumors that Behringer steal other manufacturers ideas and implement them in there own units.

Is there any proof of this.
That's what Behringer does all the time. About all their products look very familiar with familiar features etc. to existing products from real manufacturers. Behringer just does shameless copies.
Old 18th May 2006 | Show parent
  #4
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HiString's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Mackie took some action a few years ago after B**** copied some of their mixers. B****'s cable tester was a direct copy of an Ebtech product, I recall the boss of Ebtech coming online at the time and having something to say but he freely admitted that they couldn't afford to take legal action as B**** would have litigated them into the ground. More recently, there was apparently some "issue" with B****'s latest range of stompboxes.

Old 18th May 2006 | Show parent
  #5
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tamasdragon's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
These things are always existed and always will. One party is not so shy as others. I cannot remember the article I have read some years ago, but it was interestingly compare famous old products. It was the same as today.
Regards Tamas Dragon
Old 18th May 2006 | Show parent
  #6
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Nutmeg II.'s Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiString
Mackie took some action a few years ago after B**** copied some of their mixers. B****'s cable tester was a direct copy of an Ebtech product, I recall the boss of Ebtech coming online at the time and having something to say but he freely admitted that they couldn't afford to take legal action as B**** would have litigated them into the ground. More recently, there was apparently some "issue" with B****'s latest range of stompboxes.

The first demo units of the eurodesk had a mackie 8buss pcb inside!
And the placement of the knobs, switches, leds, plugs is all the same with behringer and mackie 8buss.

The Composer is like a lot of the dynamic units copied from drawmer designs.
Old 18th May 2006
  #7
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pingu
Ive heard some rumors that Behringer steal other manufacturers ideas and implement them in there own units.

Is there any proof of this.
Are you blind??????

:-)

JR
Old 18th May 2006 | Show parent
  #8
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pingu's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
God i love the ignore button.
Old 18th May 2006 | Show parent
  #9
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DrDeltaM's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pingu
God i love the ignore button.
richmondjames was just joking, see the smiley? He wasn't trying to offend you.

Old 18th May 2006 | Show parent
  #10
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1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Yeah....I was laughing when I saw Behringer's latest "studio" power amp. Looks sooooo much like the Alesis RA 500....!.heh
Old 18th May 2006 | Show parent
  #11
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dach's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
From what I understand - which of course is not much.... but... I have been led to believe it is not against the law in Germany to do what Behringer did/does. Someone from that neck of the woods can chime in and enlighten us... second thought, I have no idea why I am reading much less replying in a Behringer thread...
Old 18th May 2006 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Head
 
DanRather's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
what beringer is doing is against the law in europe thats why the owner has fled to asia where there are no copyright laws. he won't be leaving any time soon. He loves using the child labor and loves to steal other peoples ideas. I think he is a genuis. he's ripping off the poor musicians and engineers for half ass done product. just because I called him a genuis does not mean i like him. I tend to stay away from behringer. I've had geaR of theirs that just stopped working. but some of their stuff is great buy like their old rtas and their cabs are not bad for the price.
Old 18th May 2006 | Show parent
  #13
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BeerHunter's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm not defending B here but they are by no means the only company doing this. It is a problem in general.
Old 18th May 2006 | Show parent
  #14
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Behringer DOES steal designs.

To say that Mackie took legal action is only part of the story. The courts determined that Behringer stole the design from Mackie. It's one thing to say "I think you stole my car", and another to say "you were convicted in court because you stole my car."

But that's not the worst of it. Behringer will steal a design, but build that design with vastly inferior (read: CHEAP) components. So please don't think you can get "the same thing for less money" when you buy Behringer.

Case in point, they BRAG about their use of 4580 op-amps in their product literature. That is quite literally a 40 cent part. Nothing to brag about. At lower frequencies it has performance similar to more expensive (better quality) op-amps, but at higher audio-range frequencies the distortion spec is awful. If you know how to read a spec sheet, go to the Texas Instruments website and see for yourself.
Old 18th May 2006 | Show parent
  #15
T9c
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitztone
Case in point, they BRAG about their use of 4580 op-amps in their product literature. That is quite literally a 40 cent part. Nothing to brag about. At lower frequencies it has performance similar to more expensive (better quality) op-amps, but at higher audio-range frequencies the distortion spec is awful. If you know how to read a spec sheet, go to the Texas Instruments website and see for yourself.
Might as well condemn Peavey, Fender, Marshall, Crown and hundreds of other audio mfg companies that use the 4580 op amp. THE most ubiquitous audio amp ever created. It sure ain't nuthin' to brag about, tho.

But who's gonna buy a B? Someone who knows what a 4580 is? NOT! I'm sure it's just ad filler to wow the kids and/or uninformed.
Old 18th May 2006 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Lightbulb

> I'm not defending B here but they are by no means the only company doing this. It is a problem in general. <

No kidding! And I say this from personal experience...
Old 18th May 2006 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Your point is valid to an extent. But just for example, when Marshall ripped off the Fender bassman back in the 1960's, they ripped it off using good components and the result was a fine (albeit not original) product. Apparently the circuit was generic enough to keep Marshall out of the courtroom...

I don't know where Marshall uses 4580s. If you know, please tell me. I'm very interested in things like that. I know Fender uses TL072 op-amps in some of their low-end amplifiers. I have no idea where they use 4580s. This is interesting to me but I don't want to hijack the thread. Please drop me a note at [email protected] if you're so inclined.

I must respectfully disagree with the statement that the 4580 is "most ubiquitous" among op-amps. I assume you mean audio op-amps, otherwise my first guess would be the 741! Among audio chips, the 4580 hasn't been around long enough. I'm willing to bet there are more 5532s out there, simply beacause they've been available much longer.

I agree 1000% with your best point: the target market for B is not guys who go around thinking about this stuff!
Old 18th May 2006
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
weedmaker's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pingu
Ive heard some rumors that Behringer steal other manufacturers ideas and implement them in there own units.

Is there any proof of this.

Here you are
Attached Thumbnails
For all the Behringer haters-behringer-ct100.jpg   For all the Behringer haters-ebtech.jpg  
Old 18th May 2006 | Show parent
  #19
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pingu's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeltaM
richmondjames was just joking, see the smiley? He wasn't trying to offend you.


Sorry
Old 18th May 2006 | Show parent
  #20
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Ethan Winer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Unhappy

> Here you are <

Ouch!
Old 18th May 2006 | Show parent
  #21
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pingu's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Ethan are those ready traps stealing your designs to?
Old 18th May 2006 | Show parent
  #22
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DrDeltaM's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pingu
Sorry
All cool, written stuff can be misinterpreted easily
Old 19th May 2006 | Show parent
  #23
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
Wow, that ripoff of the Ebtech cable tester design is too much, even the damn laser face plate printing is printed the same!!

I would be so pissed if someone copied a product I poured much r&d into so blatantly like Behrinegr did.....

Wouldn't it be nice if some of the major manufactirers grouped together and filed a class lawsuit against them? I wouldn't have a clue if that would be possible, and I don't have the facts or depth of knowledge, and realise it would be a waste of manufacturers financial resourses.
Old 19th May 2006 | Show parent
  #24
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
Intellectual Property

I'll throw in my two cents.

Building upon other ideas is what creates better products and new advances. Copying other manufacturers' products isn't so bad, as long as they improve upon it in some way. You could say that building the product cheaper is improving on it, as it is making it available to people who wouldn't have the budget for it otherwise.
Old 19th May 2006 | Show parent
  #25
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tINY's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockStarzUSA
Wow, that ripoff of the Ebtech cable tester design is too much, even the damn laser face plate printing is printed the same!!

I would be so pissed if someone copied a product I poured much r&d into so blatantly like Behrinegr did.....


I doubt there was a lot of R&D put into a cable tester. But that makes what Bear Ringer did even more egregious.



-tINY

Old 19th May 2006 | Show parent
  #26
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Albert's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelgirardot
I'll throw in my two cents.

Building upon other ideas is what creates better products and new advances. Copying other manufacturers' products isn't so bad, as long as they improve upon it in some way. You could say that building the product cheaper is improving on it, as it is making it available to people who wouldn't have the budget for it otherwise.
I can't tell you how wrong I think this statement is in most regards. All I can think is that you personally have never had your work ripped off and profited from, so you don't have any concept of what it really is.

What Behringer did with the cable tester discussed earlier is a direct ripoff. No improvements. Ebtech did all the work, paid their people to design the thing, and Behringer simply copied the design to the last detail, cheapened the parts, and undercut the price on the Ebtech unit in order to steal their sales away from them. This is not building on the ideas of others, this is ripping off others. It's *criminal*, a point that has apparently escaped you.

I've had my work ripped off, I've seen others profit from my original musical ideas, and I can tell you *for sure* the people that do that kind of thing don't do it because they are trying to make "new advances" or they are trying to make it "better". They are doing it because they are thieves trying to make a quick easy buck by stealing someone else's products.

Making the same stolen design cheaper *does not* in any way constitute "improving" upon it. You really need to re-think your values.
Old 19th May 2006 | Show parent
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pingu
Ethan are those ready traps stealing your designs to?

They are DEFINATELY NOT and CANNOT be stealing his designs. Unless he "created" the concept of using cloth covered rigid insulation?
Old 19th May 2006 | Show parent
  #28
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7161's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
can I ask, how do you know 'the original' wasnt oem in china and behringer just used the same box?

i mean there is mic's on the market from different companies with the same shell etc but from different brands. all the difference is, is the brand name on the mic.

to me it doesnt matter either way, I might feel that all the new bmw's look like Nissan's now (worse in fact), but it doesnt change ones ability to say "One is Nissan, one is BMW, i'll check em out and decide which I like"
Old 19th May 2006
  #29
Gear Maniac
 
David Lee's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pingu
Ive heard some rumors that Behringer steal other manufacturers ideas and implement them in there own units.

Is there any proof of this.

I think it's funny that when someone comes along and posts something as simple as what you see above here, can launch the same discussion that has happened here *many* times before.
Old 19th May 2006 | Show parent
  #30
Gear Maniac
 
David Lee's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
has anyone noticed this http://www.behringer.com/EG8080/index.cfm?lang=ENG
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