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phase invert button for a mono recording ?
Old 15th May 2006
  #1
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isham's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
phase invert button for a mono recording ?

Hello everybody :-)

I was wondering if it makes sense to use the invert phase switch of my préamp (s20) to record mono instruments (voice). What are your experiences with the invert phase, does it improve the overall sound quality in the mix ?

some theory and experience is needed certainly !
thanks a lot for your help,
Old 15th May 2006
  #2
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PapillonIrl's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
It will not change the sound of anything if you are recording only a mono signal.

If you have two or more mics recording at the same time, it will change the phase in relation to the other mics and this will change the sound when you are listening to some or all mics together.

Make sense ?

Here's another way of explaining it.

Normal phase mono speaker:

+ Speaker goes out
- Speaker goes in

Flip the phase, what happens ?

+ Speaker goes in
- Speaker goes out

Sounds the exact same.


Now what happens if you have two speakers, but you only reverse the phase of one of them ?

Now one is trying to push while the other is trying to pull...this causes cancellation and loss of sound pressure levels in lower frequencies especially.


Make sense ?



A phase reverse button is often used, for example, on a mic that is on the bottom of the snare. This is to bring it into phase with the mic on the top of the snare.


Logic goes like this:


Drummer hits snare: Snare moves away from top mic and towards bottom mic.



If they are both the same distance from the drum it is likely you will have to have the phase on one mic pre reversed for the mic capsules to be moving in the same direction.

Try thinking of mic capsules as speakers in reverse if that helps.


Cheers,

Nathan
Old 15th May 2006 | Show parent
  #3
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tINY's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years


An audiophile guy told me that the absolute phase of a signal does matter.

To check it out, I changed the phase on one of my stereo speakers by switching the wires. It sounded so much better I changed the other speaker too.....



-tINY

Old 16th May 2006 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Some people can hear absolute phase. And it makes kind of sense if you look on the wave form in a DAW. Drum hits starts positive. Brass instruments played loud has a very different wave form on the positive side as compared to the negative side. If by any chance your phases are switched, that can be fixed by the switch.

I cannot hear any difference at all though.

Gunnar
Old 16th May 2006 | Show parent
  #5
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espasonico's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
To change the phase in a mono situation ( vocal ) can help sometimes for the singer to play the headphones in phase with his natural voice. I know it may sound weird but sometimes you just flip the phase and the singer feels better.
Old 16th May 2006 | Show parent
  #6
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isham's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
thanks a lot for these interesting point of views (this subject is less obscur now for me...) as always experiments are always the best and I will check if there some audible differences to record my voice with or without invert phase switch on.

Take care,
Old 16th May 2006 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
This is a misunderstanding :
The recorded voice will not sound different, but the percieved sound in the headphones (while singing) will sound different because it is more or less in/out of phase with the sound the singer is making live.

I fooled myself a few times when testing a fig of 8 mic by speaking in both sides with headphones on. I always thought one side sounded darker but this was because of the effect mentioned above.

Hans
Old 21st September 2017
  #8
Gear Addict
 
Fergies Watch's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Have to revive this thread as I hear a tonality shift when I flip the phase switch on my neve portico channel, almost like a change in the freq response. I've listened criticaly and it's weird in that I prefer the phase button in. Mic is set to cardiod so it's not fig of 8 issue. Am I going mad or has anyone else experienced this effect before? I'll record a snippet and post tomorrow to validate what I'm saying... is it broken?
Old 21st September 2017 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergies Watch ➡️
... I hear a tonality shift when I flip the phase switch on my neve portico channel, almost like a change in the freq response. I've listened criticaly and it's weird in that I prefer the phase button in. Mic is set to cardiod so it's not fig of 8 issue. Am I going mad or has anyone else experienced this effect before?
If you're experiencing it in combination with other sounds, well, that can happen. If it's by itself, you're going mad. :-)
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