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Share Your Guitar Recording Tips With Me
Old 24th February 2012
  #1
Lives for gear
 
mattjew24's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Share Your Guitar Recording Tips With Me

Hello everyone. I post here somewhat frequently. This website is always full of things to learn, and I humbly ask for some more knowledge. This time, regarding Electric Guitars.

It's about time to start recording my band again. This time I want to get the best possible guitar tone I can get with my gear, and their gear.

Here is how our last demo effort turned out.

The Bush Leaguers - Band Profile | Facebook


Gear.........

Guitars:

Vox AC 30, overdrive pedal, and a Semi Hollow guitar.

Fender Bassman, Box of Rocks Dist Pedal, Gretsch guitar.


Preamps/Interface:

M Audio Profire 2626
Behringer ADA8000

ART MPA Gold with JJ tubes

ART MP Preamp

Presonus Studio Channel pre/eq/comp

Mics:

Shure SM57, SM58
Beta 52

MLX 990/991

AT 4040

Samson C02 pair


I'm just looking for fresh ideas to try on micing up the amps. I want them to be as huge as possible...
Old 24th February 2012
  #2
Lives for gear
 
aclarson's Avatar
I found this very helpful:
Slipperman's Recording Distorted Guitars From Hell

I'd advise you to read it top to bottom and enjoy every minute.
Old 25th February 2012
  #3
Gear Addict
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
I like to run a direct box so I can record a clean signal to reamp or run into an amp sim, as well as micing the amps.
Old 25th February 2012
  #4
Gear Addict
 
6 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Firstly pick either amp,

Gaff tape the Beta52 to wherever on the amp you get the most bass response. In front of a speaker is fine but we want physical transmission, yeah baby.

Put the 57 in front and into a tube pre. Mid-cone, a little off axis. Hit the tube hard.
Put the 58 in the back of the amp through a clean pre, out of phase. Try to get like the same spot and distance from the cone as the 57 but in reverse... or don't (not that important but fun to experiment)

The 4040 goes like, I don't know, 6 feet away or so. Move it around for some womp womp. WTF, put the studio channel on that. Avoid using the compressor on it.

Now the fun part: Hang an omni from a wire in the middle of the room with a 1 pound weight on it... or a pair of cardiods back to back... You'll need windscreens for this part...

Swing the pendulum, hit record.

Pan everything to ear except the 52, of course, stays center. Delay the 57 and 58 like 18 samples for some fake time alignment to the 52, WTF. Take to 4040 and do the "make stereo" spread thing to it: split eq/hard pan/short delay/micro chorus/etc thing. Whatever wide you like. I like microchoruses and split mid-high EQs, personally. Subgroup those channels and then M/S EQ the sides with a little sizzle. Compress the whole sub-group but not too hard, just a tiny but of suck but mostly transparent. Add the 52 in just for uncompressed chunk. When you want a sick "how did you get that sound?" phaser use the pendulum, lol.

Result?
Awesome... or not... Try the other amp/guitar.

Might sound terrible. Either way, at least you get to hear how this sounds.

But what does huge sound mean anyway? Like giant reverbs or fat tight amps or psycho-acoustic LSD delays? You can get huge huge sounds simply by using one 57 and 3 different amps with 3 different guitars that are O so slightly out of tune to each other. Just track it 5 times and pan hard... o yeah and avoid the low-mid mud.

Experiment

Last edited by manysounds; 25th February 2012 at 01:35 AM.. Reason: edit: clarity
Old 25th February 2012
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Jazz Noise's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I kind of like the guitars as they are - it's not the stereotypical HUEG GUTURRR sound. But you didn't ask us if we liked the guitar sound, so let's get back on topic:

If you really want that then you should try a Big Muff and try re-amping the guitar sounds between a few sources with different mic arranges to vary the tone. You'll want 16th note delay on the solos and double tracking. You'll want to compress them more, in general. Some volume and panning automation so that the fills are more in your face.

For micing try some stereo techniques, try setting up stereo amp setups. If you have any cheap T.Bone/Nady Ribbons try something like a blumlein. XY or ORTF if you have some SDC's. Maybe a M/S if you've figure 8 mics! If you've a desk try overdriving the guitars through that.
Old 25th February 2012
  #6
Gear Head
 
BrainstuHammy's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I mostly deal with hard rock/metal guitars. The pros in that genre are loud, in your face and heavy tones. The cons, at least in my experience, if you record too loud, you won't get a good final product.

A player I frequently record has a Les Paul (Gibson) and a Marshall Jmd100 and Ma412 Half Stack. In the beginning we both thought "loud is better!" then record as loud as possible. The problem I quickly learned is I record too loud, anything I add while mixing will clip the track and distort it.

I record with 2-3 mics depending on what kind of song he wants to do. For a 70's sound, I use one SM57 on the lower right section of the amp, pointing directly at the tube, 2 inches away from the speaker and maybe an inch off center. For the harder metal stuff, 2 SM57s resting on the speaker: One bottom right, one top left. Angled at maybe 25 degrees, pointing towards the center of the tube, but an inch or 2 off center. I'll use another mic as a room mic, pointed at the center of the cabinet, 3 feet away.

When recording, I tell the player to tune his amp the way he likes it played, then fine tune it listening through headphones/monitors to get the sound we want. Then he turns his amp down to maybe 75% volume, then I record at -6DB to give the wave some breathing room when I add effects and plugins. I usually ask the player to record 2 separate rythem tracks before he adds a solo/lead part. One rythem take is panned left, the other panned right. Solo/leads 40% panned left/right

With Logic 9 I can customize the amp sound to almost anything I want. While that's cool, I like the natural, real sound of the amp. All I do when I record guitars is run it through a multiband compressor, tweak the EQ's and add a touch of reverb to keep the natural sound of the amp, but make it big and badass sounding.

Here are songs I did with the techniques I just described. They were recorded in a basement using nothing but heavy blankets and carpets to dampen the room noise and basic microphones (SM57, SM58 for guitar/bass/vocal. EV PL33, PL35 for drums).

Nine Ways (Metal) (Guitar, Drums Only) by Brainstu Hammy on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

Piece Of It (Generic Rock) by Brainstu Hammy on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

Lies (Hard Rock) by Brainstu Hammy on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
Old 26th February 2012
  #7
Lives for gear
 
mattjew24's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Hey thanks for the useful replies!

I am really interested in the complicated Pendulum AT4040 method. I may actually try it haha

The guitars on the demos we already have are just an SM57 pointed somewhere at the speaker, some way. Minimal compression and EQ.


I can't remember if we double tracked them or not.

Thanks for the tips!

Keep em coming
Old 27th February 2012 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Addict
 
6 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjew24 ➑️
Hey thanks for the useful replies!

I am really interested in the complicated Pendulum AT4040 method. I may actually try it haha

The guitars on the demos we already have are just an SM57 pointed somewhere at the speaker, some way. Minimal compression and EQ.


I can't remember if we double tracked them or not.

Thanks for the tips!

Keep em coming
HA HA! Go for it. Like I said, at least you'll find out what it sounds like, eh?
(I already know

Some multi-tracked and panned layering with many different guitar tones is the usual "secret" for "rock"
Old 28th February 2012
  #9
Deleted d44e7f2
Guest
Well I just did a recording and was going for a BIG guitar sound as well and to get that sound it took a couple of things.

1st we recorded both amps at the same time. Signal chain was Guitar-Radial Bigshot ABY- Amp 1 and Amp 2. Mic'ed using a 57. Dead center 3" off the grill then a LDC about a foot behind the 57. Provided the perfect balance tonally with the 57 getting the highs and the LDC getting the lows and adding some depth.

If I were you I'd try and get one more LDC as I don't believe the MXL will cut it for you although it may.
Old 28th February 2012
  #10
Gear Head
 
BrainstuHammy's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
We just tested out a new amp we got, an authentic vintage 1967 Fender Pro Reverb.

http://lightbox-photos.s3.amazonaws....361169_lrg.jpg

To test it out, we used 2 57's directly on the speakers and one AKG Perception 220 about 3 feet away, level aimed at the center of the amp. No matter what guitar we put in, whether it be a Gibson, Fender or even my 150 dollar low end Epiphone Les Paul learners guitar, the sounds I got were incredible. I felt like I was listening to a real 60s surf-rock record. Even taking away the AKG, so much natural reverb and warm sound came from that amp that it made me wonder why can't they make amps today as good as this one is?
Old 28th February 2012 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Silent Sound's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by manysounds ➑️
Firstly pick either amp,

Gaff tape the Beta52 to wherever on the amp you get the most bass response. In front of a speaker is fine but we want physical transmission, yeah baby...

...Now the fun part: Hang an omni from a wire in the middle of the room with a 1 pound weight on it... or a pair of cardiods back to back... You'll need windscreens for this part...

Swing the pendulum, hit record.
Two new things to try! Thanks for these!
Old 28th February 2012
  #12
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by aclarson ➑️
I found this very helpful:
Slipperman's Recording Distorted Guitars From Hell

I'd advise you to read it top to bottom and enjoy every minute.
Am I the only person who thinks that page is completely useless? It's like trying to follow the thoughts of a monkey that's high on cocaine. Totally unorganized. His main premise is "use expensive gear." Wow. Kudos for figuring THAT one out.
Old 28th February 2012
  #13
Gear Guru
Having recorded electric guitar since the 1960's, it's not too complicated.

First, I use condensers, always. They are never shoved up against the grill, always 1~2 feet back where "the sound" comes together. One is enough, if it's the right mic.

I tend to use flat response condensers, no need for built in "mic EQ". I use very fast and open mic preamps, made here. Recently I've enjoyed using custom made mics with C-12 capsules and my own electronics. The goal is to capture what I hear and not change it as I like the tones I produce.

I have various amps and speakers, that's where the tone and variety come from, not the recording gear. The recording gear just mirrors what I play.
Old 28th February 2012 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
aclarson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasnub ➑️
It's like trying to follow the thoughts of a monkey that's high on cocaine. Totally unorganized.
True.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasnub ➑️
His main premise is "use expensive gear."
False. Though the guy likes expensive stuff, and ****s on cheap stuff, I'd suspect most old pros would feel the same way ultimately, but that's not the gold to be gleamed from this page anyway. Lot's a great tips on miking and how to find your amp level, concepts on cabs (speaker excursion/cab involvement), how to approach using comps and EQs to get the right steady state level to tape if you're into that.

More than that, I think there's something to seeing the approach from start to finish with every random thought along the way, gives a certain perspective. And I find the the whole thing a damn funny read anyway.

It's worth noting that this page is actually a compilation of the guy's forum posts from a big thread, not actually intended to be a one stop reference, it's just that somebody thought it was good, so they compiled it and stuck it on their website.
Old 28th February 2012 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
aclarson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➑️
Having recorded electric guitar since the 1960's, it's not too complicated.

First, I use condensers, always. They are never shoved up against the grill, always 1~2 feet back where "the sound" comes together. One is enough, if it's the right mic.

I tend to use flat response condensers, no need for built in "mic EQ". I use very fast and open mic preamps, made here. Recently I've enjoyed using custom made mics with C-12 capsules and my own electronics. The goal is to capture what I hear and not change it as I like the tones I produce.

I have various amps and speakers, that's where the tone and variety come from, not the recording gear. The recording gear just mirrors what I play.
You ever record heavy stuff Jim? I haven't seen many using this method for heavy guitars, seems like everybody uses the close dynamic mic or ribbons, though I'm sure there's exceptions. I'd be curious to hear them.
Old 28th February 2012
  #16
Gear Nut
 
mattseidel's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
You definitely want to use 2 mics on 2 separate speakers. I record different amp heads through an Avatar 2 x 12 cab and get great cleans, high-gain sounds and everything in between. I'm not a big fan of condensers and usually use a combination of SM57, e609, MD421, and Royer 101.

The main thing I've learned over the years is mic positioning. I like to have the mics between 6-18 inches from the speaker and angled slightly away form each other - one up/one down or left/right, or one pointed right at the speaker cone and one angled towards the edge. Experiment until you find something that sounds good. The "huge"ness of your guitar sound is going to depend on the overlap/synergy in the midrange frequencies the mics are picking up, once they're lined up correctly you'll definitely hear it.
Old 29th February 2012 | Show parent
  #17
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by aclarson ➑️
I haven't seen many using this method for heavy guitars
I do it all the time. I don't see a reason to treat them differently than the rest unless you want to achieve specific "special effects". Of course, as Jim said, you must get the right sound from the amp first. If not, you may need all those other tricks to alter that sound in certain ways. My clients never complain about "my" approach, but sometimes they're not getting the sound they actually want from their own rigs. When we manage to get the amps right, this approach never fails. It just gives you what the amp gives. Nothing more, nothing less. You cannot go wrong about it.

The big problem arises when the players don't really want their "real" and actual amp sound in the tracks besides they think they want exactly that in advance... but they actually don't. Then the time for guessing what the heck these guys have in their minds starts. But that's a totally different problem.
Old 29th February 2012 | Show parent
  #18
Harmless Wacko
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasnub ➑️
Am I the only person who thinks that page is completely useless? It's like trying to follow the thoughts of a monkey that's high on cocaine. Totally unorganized. His main premise is "use expensive gear." Wow. Kudos for figuring THAT one out.
LMFBO.

Ahh. I'm/It's not for everybody.

That's for sure.

Anyhoo.

I can certainly understand some people NOT getting, or simply not enjoying my presentation. That's not a stretch at all.


However.

My point is HARDLY "use expensive gear".

If you actually READ the entire thread and that's what you took away... I think we have a clear indication of where your reading comprehension skills are at. And it's not looking good.

I'm far from any flavor of elitist. I'm a practical guy. Use whatcha got/can afford.

I started with a Mono Earth CMX-7 and a 3M Wollensak mono 1/4" machine.

Radio shack and hilarious no-name Japanese High Imp mics. Couldn't afford more than a single SM57.

Too much loot in the first 2-3 years.

Low end Theory indeed.

A lot of young AE's don't have a clue about how much you can do for short money these days by comparison to the 70's.

It's insane.

Back to the page thingie... as somebody noted here... it's not a TUTORIAL.

It's simply a conglomeration of my posts from a decade old RecPit thread that featured many hundreds of (now) omitted posts from other members... A thread that ran for 3-4 years that somebody I've never met or even spoken to, culled my posts from... and whipped up on a server a bunch of years ago.

I never stopped them from doing as much because many people seem to find it genuinely AMUSING.

Some even find/found it... *gasp*.

INFORMATIVE.

Go figure.

In any event.

It certainly seems very common to see the folks who DO NOT enjoy or appreciate that page over the years, head over to the Ultimate Metal forum for a "connect the dots" type tutorial from that crowd.

Which is great, if that's what yer after.

Personally, I'd rather get a series of weekly trepanations with a plastic stir straw than suffer the fate of those lemmings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➑️
Having recorded electric guitar since the 1960's, it's not too complicated.

First, I use condensers, always. They are never shoved up against the grill, always 1~2 feet back where "the sound" comes together. One is enough, if it's the right mic.

I tend to use flat response condensers, no need for built in "mic EQ". I use very fast and open mic preamps, made here. Recently I've enjoyed using custom made mics with C-12 capsules and my own electronics. The goal is to capture what I hear and not change it as I like the tones I produce.

I have various amps and speakers, that's where the tone and variety come from, not the recording gear. The recording gear just mirrors what I play.
Funny how good old Jim Williams showed up here in "droll dismissive mode" to tell us how it's done by the pros from the 60's. It's almost like he follows me around with the search function. Bizarre. In any case. Jim Williams is a EE repair/Mod guy who doesn't have sh*t for ACTUAL RECORDING CREDITS as far as I have EVER been able to ascertain.

And I have tried mightily to find them. He will, and routinely DOES tell people that he has "worked with" an enormous amount of famous people. Unfortunately... So has the guy who seats people at the Grammy's. Grain of salt with that guy until I find his name as an engineer on a single major album credit. I haven't been able to do as much as yet. I dunno. Maybe he's some kinda invisible Lord Chancellor type. Then again... Judging from his POST CONTENT... I'm thinking no.

Needless to say: Jim and I don't like each other very much. I'm REALLY happy with that arrangement staying exactly as it is forever. Probably the ONLY guy I can genuinely say that about in my decade plus of screwing around on the internot. Funny that.

Crazy story: Jim once called me out in an old Ethan Winer "Mythbusters" thread to ID myself or suffer the credibility gap supposedly germane to the anonymous poster here on GS... and I did. It was a delightfully misguided attempt at "argumentum ad verecundiam" that blew right the f*ck up in his Op-Amp sorting grille.

Sooooo.

I'd like to take this opportunity to similarly ask Jim to display his EXACT AND SPECIFIC AUDIO ENGINEERING and RECORD PRODUCTION credentials for us to marvel at here on GS.

If he does: I'm certainly gonna pay rapt attention to every detail of the list.

I, on the other hand, have been recording and mixing all kinza rock music persistently for 3 decades and have a credential list which is based on records I ACTUALLY MADE, not hung around and fixed or modded gear for. Many, many, of them soup to nuts. That is... I DID THE WHOLE F*CKING RECORD front to back. If you don't grok how RARE that is in silly internot pundits... yer missing a very nice deck seat on the Lusitania. HOHOHO. Doesn't necessarily make me, or any of the records I made, worth a damn. But, as the old saying goes:

You can get a MONKEY to mow that lawn properly if ya send him out there enough times.

Now we just gotta get him some cocaine.

Best regards, and nobody(but Jim) get hurt in the ass,

Have fun, make music, all else is folly.

SM.
Old 29th February 2012
  #19
Lives for gear
 
mattjew24's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Haha I love it

I did read his guide a few months ago, really enjoyed it. It is a lot of information all at once, which is overwhelming but cool. Each time I read it, I take a few pieces into my memory, but I never remember to practice everything he writes on there.

Now to go get that tone from the new Machine Head album! Yeah!

But really, I love the advice so far. Inspired me to read Slippermans guide again. Thanks
Old 29th February 2012
  #20
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slipperman ➑️
LMFBO.

Ahh. I'm/It's not for everybody.

That's for sure.

Anyhoo.

I can certainly understand some people NOT getting, or simply not enjoying my presentation. That's not a stretch at all.


However.

My point is HARDLY "use expensive gear".

If you actually READ the entire thread and that's what you took away... I think we have a clear indication of where your reading comprehension skills are at. And it's not looking good.

I'm far from any flavor of elitist. I'm a practical guy. Use whatcha got/can afford.

I started with a Mono Earth CMX-7 and a 3M Wollensak mono 1/4" machine.

Radio shack and hilarious no-name Japanese High Imp mics. Couldn't afford more than a single SM57.

Too much loot in the first 2-3 years.

Low end Theory indeed.

A lot of young AE's don't have a clue about how much you can do for short money these days by comparison to the 70's.

It's insane.

Back to the page thingie... as somebody noted here... it's not a TUTORIAL.

It's simply a conglomeration of my posts from a decade old RecPit thread that featured many hundreds of (now) omitted posts from other members... A thread that ran for 3-4 years that somebody I've never met or even spoken to, culled my posts from... and whipped up on a server a bunch of years ago.

I never stopped them from doing as much because many people seem to find it genuinely AMUSING.

Some even find/found it... *gasp*.

INFORMATIVE.

Go figure.

In any event.

It certainly seems very common to see the folks who DO NOT enjoy or appreciate that page over the years, head over to the Ultimate Metal forum for a "connect the dots" type tutorial from that crowd.

Which is great, if that's what yer after.

Personally, I'd rather get a series of weekly trepanations with a plastic stir straw than suffer the fate of those lemmings.



Funny how good old Jim Williams showed up here in "droll dismissive mode" to tell us how it's done by the pros from the 60's. It's almost like he follows me around with the search function. Bizarre. In any case. Jim Williams is a EE repair/Mod guy who doesn't have sh*t for ACTUAL RECORDING CREDITS as far as I have EVER been able to ascertain.

And I have tried mightily to find them. He will, and routinely DOES tell people that he has "worked with" an enormous amount of famous people. Unfortunately... So has the guy who seats people at the Grammy's. Grain of salt with that guy until I find his name as an engineer on a single major album credit. I haven't been able to do as much as yet. I dunno. Maybe he's some kinda invisible Lord Chancellor type. Then again... Judging from his POST CONTENT... I'm thinking no.

Needless to say: Jim and I don't like each other very much. I'm REALLY happy with that arrangement staying exactly as it is forever. Probably the ONLY guy I can genuinely say that about in my decade plus of screwing around on the internot. Funny that.

Crazy story: Jim once called me out in an old Ethan Winer "Mythbusters" thread to ID myself or suffer the credibility gap supposedly germane to the anonymous poster here on GS... and I did. It was a delightfully misguided attempt at "argumentum ad verecundiam" that blew right the f*ck up in his Op-Amp sorting grille.

Sooooo.

I'd like to take this opportunity to similarly ask Jim to display his EXACT AND SPECIFIC AUDIO ENGINEERING and RECORD PRODUCTION credentials for us to marvel at here on GS.

If he does: I'm certainly gonna pay rapt attention to every detail of the list.

I, on the other hand, have been recording and mixing all kinza rock music persistently for 3 decades and have a credential list which is based on records I ACTUALLY MADE, not hung around and fixed or modded gear for. Many, many, of them soup to nuts. That is... I DID THE WHOLE F*CKING RECORD front to back. If you don't grok how RARE that is in silly internot pundits... yer missing a very nice deck seat on the Lusitania. HOHOHO. Doesn't necessarily make me, or any of the records I made, worth a damn. But, as the old saying goes:

You can get a MONKEY to mow that lawn properly if ya send him out there enough times.

Now we just gotta get him some cocaine.

Best regards, and nobody(but Jim) get hurt in the ass,

Have fun, make music, all else is folly.

SM.
Hey, I appreciate the effort. I just found it very difficult to follow. Not in format- the forum thing is easy enough. But your descriptions are... cryptic. For example:

"4.3k-6.5k Bottom of fizz. Add Beefeaters for gin fizz. Guzzle many glasses."

What?
Old 29th February 2012
  #21
Lives for gear
 
aclarson's Avatar
Oh crap, what have I done? I love both Slipperman and JW, I didnt mean to incite a battle of the titans!

Of course, I'm still grabbing my popcorn...
Old 29th February 2012
  #22
Lives for gear
 
LeMauce's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Brit rock style crunch guitars with ambiance... M/S recording
Upfront in your face "wall of sound". double x 8times the track in blumlein setting. Make L / R busses and mix to taste.
Old 29th February 2012
  #23
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I find it quite telling that in Slipperman's long self defense above, he doesn't actually deny being a monkey that's high on cocaine.
Old 29th February 2012 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Addict
 
D.F.'s Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slipperman ➑️
LMFBO.

...he has "worked with" an enormous amount of famous people. Unfortunately... So has the guy who seats people at the Grammy's.
Thank you.
Old 1st March 2012
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Thanks Slipperman! Here is my 2cents on recording guitars, of which I do rock and mainly Marshalls Try a couple of mics 57, 421 and a ribbon (cascade's are cheep and good). Also try and sum to one track and eq that track instead of all of them separately. Cut the low end either in tracking or in the DAW. For me anything below 80hz is a problem. I shelf as high as 150hz at times. Also watch out for the 9k region, there can be a ring up there that can be notched out as well as the 2-5k range which should be checked for any ringing. Phase align your tracks ala James Lugo in the DAW before you begin tracking w/ multiple mics.

Been So Long by the spice roxs on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
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Old 1st March 2012 | Show parent
  #26
Harmless Wacko
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumq ➑️
I find it quite telling that in Slipperman's long self defense above, he doesn't actually deny being a monkey that's high on cocaine.
Well. No cocaine here.

Not since 1982 or so.

Strictly single malt Scotch and cigars.

Cuban. When I can get them.

But the MONKEY thing.

Sure.

Hell.

I think monkey might be giving myself too much credit.

More like a cactus.

XOXO

Slippy
Old 1st March 2012 | Show parent
  #27
Lives for gear
 
mattjew24's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slipperman ➑️
Well. No cocaine here.

Not since 1982 or so.

Strictly single malt Scotch and cigars.

Cuban. When I can get them.

But the MONKEY thing.

Sure.

Hell.

I think monkey might be giving myself too much credit.

More like a cactus.

XOXO

Slippy

So....like a Peyote cactus loaded with Mescaline?


I love the M/S idea someone posted. Layering M/S guitars sounds fun
Old 1st March 2012 | Show parent
  #28
Harmless Wacko
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasnub ➑️
Hey, I appreciate the effort. I just found it very difficult to follow. Not in format- the forum thing is easy enough. But your descriptions are... cryptic. For example:

"4.3k-6.5k Bottom of fizz. Add Beefeaters for gin fizz. Guzzle many glasses."

What?
dasnub.

Very early in that thread I describe the INESCAPABLE FUTILITY of being able to objectively quantify, much less exactingly address, ANYTHING SPECIFICALLY in a written missive... in the absence of the provision of CONTEXT, a circumstance which only HEARING could provide.

I think I reference both the Grand Canyon and the Eisenhower White House in some of those ruminations.

LMFBO.

All these type of statements would serve as examples of my attempts at an obliquely humorous celebration of those aforementioned concepts.

I also purposely attempted to LIMIT the scope and scale of my hypothetical tools for the sake of FOCUS in light of the massive ADDITIONAL window of variability which would enter the subject discussion if I DIDN'T.

Hilariously. I have seen things posted in a myriad of places, with real paragons of reading comprehension saying wholly fallacious things like: "Slipperman says ONLY USE A SINGLE SM57 and a DISTRESSOR".

See.

The internot is full of persons, many of them utter fukwits... who believe that there is a "diamond bullet" in recording electric guitars. And that if they just read ONE MORE POST on what Andy Sneap does they will be able to get on with their burgeoning professional volleyball career.

Even a self-described cogent cactus like me starts to figure out a few things after a while:

1.) Some people simply don't UNDERSTAND what I'm talking about, and probably never will. I can't help them.

2.) Some people UNDERSTAND perfectly, and don't like the presentation or find it particularly funny.

But VERY, VERY few people have had occasion to DIRECTLY challenge ANY of the basic concepts I put forth in that lighthearted collection of thoughts in any SPECIFIC fashion.

Ten years later.

It has actually been a strange disappointment to me in a muted sense.

See... The only time I seem to learn ANYTHING is when I'm wrong.

And I'm ALL ABOUT the learning. That's the truth.

I'm not a "Threatened AE". I don't give a f*ck. I just wanna make better records.

So really...

You, Jim, God... anybody...

Give me a LINE ITEM LAUNDRY LIST of where I'm talking out of my ass... even though I'm simply talking both off the record and off the top of my head ten years ago" and we'll see if I, and everybody ELSE... can learn something from YOU on the internot.

'Cause from a PRACTICAL standpoint. There are ALREADY a SLEW of hilariously BAD posts in this thread which CLEANLY DEMONSTRATE that people are wildly grab-assing around in the f*cking dark, still trying **** that people who ACTUALLY DO THIS day in and day out ABANDONED as untenable, or just largely IMPRACTICAL a zillion years ago.

Like LAYERING guitars recorded in M/S.

Which is an ABSOLUTE ****SHOW/CLUSTERF*CK on ANYTHING that is high-gain/high note density.

Come on. Edjamacate me. Tell me HOW you do this and make it work in mix.

Specifically.

'Cause I'm a hardcore M/S aficionado from waaayyyy the f*ck back. I've made hundreds of released records using M/S micing techniques of all sorts. On a bewildering array of instruments. Even impossibly dumb ones... like an dirt bass through a Leslie. Absolutely defined the sound of the song. Go figure. I ALSO got a whole bunch of hotshot M/S kit to work wit as well... Both in the analog and digital domain. Go ahead clobber me with science. I'm living for it.

See.., MAYBE, MAYBE... somma these guys ACTUALLY ARE the new geniuses who will lead a new generation of distorted guitar recordists.

I'm totally into that.

When their amazing sounding records start shaping a new guitar sound that sets everybody on their ears...

We can all say:

We knew them when.

Till then.

Tell me EXACTLY what yer doing to get these recordings completed... AND... Direct me to where I can get a listen to the magnificent sounding end product.

Show me.

I'll be WILDLY hanging M/S TOMORROW(literally) like a f*cking madman if I think you're onto something.

Besides crack.

Once again...

NOBODY TAKE THE HEAT(besides Jim Williams who single LDC theory is for the f*cking birds if yer layering highly gain saturated guitars... and if he'd ever done a modern heavy guitar record in his storied career he'd KNOW that).

This is all in good fun/humor... AND OFFERED WITH THE BEST OF INTENTIONS.


And no...

We don't gotta use EXPENSIVE GEAR.

Just as a COMPLETELY SILLY ILLUSTRATION of the point: I once cut the lead vocal on EVERY SONG on a record that later went RIAA Gold using an RE20 into a Symetrix SX202(mighta been a DBX 760x) mic pre into 2 sides of a Behringer MDX-2000 in series.

This on a record in which the style of the music and exact nature of the band would cause one to declare "The Vocal is EVERYTHING", and I think most folks would have used a Telefunken U47 into a Martech MSS-10 into a GML 8900.

All of which were 25 feet away in the mic locker.

Funny thing is:

I musta got 30 records off the back of that record.

So why risk a dumbass stunt like that?

Whim as a catalyst of both fun and ambition.

It's as huge as any other consideration in record production.

I engineered the above idiot-stunt as a demonstration of the power of whim/fun to a young record producer who ended up with both a shiny plaque with his name on it... and a snotty LA manager who needed a good shoe in the nutz, for our efforts.

The first item he kept.

The second one ended up in the trash.

HOHOHO.

Best regards,

SM.
Old 1st March 2012 | Show parent
  #29
Gear Addict
 
6 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slipperman ➑️
Whim as a catalyst of both fun and ambition.

It's as huge as any other consideration in record production.
You sir, are a man before/after my own heart. See my post on page one of this thread
The process of making an enjoyable listening experience is not supposed to be 100% technical and is far from it, in the end, all things considered, etc, etc.
Even the old-school guys in lab coats were experimenting constantly.
Knowing and understanding the technicalities is damn important also but to flat out deny that a 57 20 feet from a Gorilla amp would never be the right thing for the moment is a bad idea for your creativity.
Old 3rd March 2012
  #30
Lives for gear
 
malaclypse's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i use a ribbon and a dynamic(i know ribbons are technically dynamics blah blah), or a ribbon and a condensor, or a dynamic and a condenser. placement and mic choice are contingent on song, room, artist, genre, whim, time of year, position of the planets, what you're wearing, and most importantly: how it sounds. move the mic around until it sounds the way you want. you dont have to use both mics in the mix. you dont have to put 100 mics in front of the cab. its fun to find the right spot. i've found that putting the mic right up on the cone usually sounds strange and disembodied to me, so i'm usually back at least 1' or more.
i'm not a pro.
slipperman is a pro. listen to him. his records sound great.
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