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New studio - what to buy?
Old 28th May 2003
  #31
Here for the gear
 
HaB's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Whoa!

Last time I looked at this thread, it had stalled on page one.

Now it's almost to the point of overload.

First, I'd like to thank everyone for their replies.

To clarify a couple of things that I saw come up while I was reading:

I'm not neccessarily hung up on a tape-style interface. While this is what I have learned on and used for many years, for the past 4-5 years, I have been using a Roland VS-880 as my primary recorder for piddling around with my own stuff. Also, I work with computers for a living, so it's not as if I am phobic.

I was already figuring on a sizable chunk of the budget going towards mics. I have 3 57s, and 2 58s already, but I already have a need for a decent condenser, and some additional ones for micing drums and the like.

We'll shift the focus to mics, for now.

Tracking a full rock band: drums, bass, two guitars, keys, vox. Studio, not live. (Portability is a plus, but not neccessary)

Let's put responses into 3 categories:

1 - The bare minimum. Assuming you are a God at placing mics, and getting a good sound with mediocre equipment, this is what you would HAVE to have to do it.

2 - It'd be nice if I had this, but since I'm on a medium budget...
The mid range. Not the top top top of the line, but decent stuff, with perhaps a rare gem or two tossed in for good measure.

3 - Hi, my name is Donald, this is my girlfriend Marla. You can cal me Mr. Trump, if you'd like.
Money is NO object. The band wishes to be able to hear the sound of a fly landing on rice paper from 20 yards away, and I'm just the guy to do it, here's my mic collection:


Should this be a separate thread?

I eagerly await your responses.
Old 28th May 2003
  #32
Lives for gear
 
subspace's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by HaB

I was already figuring on a sizable chunk of the budget going towards mics. I have 3 57s, and 2 58s already, but I already have a need for a decent condenser, and some additional ones for micing drums and the like.

We'll shift the focus to mics, for now.

Tracking a full rock band: drums, bass, two guitars, keys, vox. Studio, not live. (Portability is a plus, but not neccessary)

Let's put responses into 3 categories:

1 - The bare minimum. Assuming you are a God at placing mics, and getting a good sound with mediocre equipment, this is what you would HAVE to have to do it.

2 - It'd be nice if I had this, but since I'm on a medium budget...
The mid range. Not the top top top of the line, but decent stuff, with perhaps a rare gem or two tossed in for good measure.

3 - Hi, my name is Donald, this is my girlfriend Marla. You can cal me Mr. Trump, if you'd like.
Money is NO object. The band wishes to be able to hear the sound of a fly landing on rice paper from 20 yards away, and I'm just the guy to do it, here's my mic collection:
1) A-T ATM25 - Kick
Oktava MC012 (2) - OHs
SM57 (2) - El Gtrs
SM58 - Vcl
DI (3) - Bass and Keys

2) add to the above;
Beyer M160 (2) - Room mics
Sennheiser MD421 (3) - Toms
Beyer M201 - Snare
E-V RE20 - Bass
Soundelux iFET7 - Far Kick, Vcl

3) add multiple choices of the usual suspects

HTH
Old 28th May 2003
  #33
Lives for gear
 
sonic dogg's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thats three whole lists....heres just some suggestions appropriate for your set up...and YES...I AM a mic setting GOD.

Kik- ATM25,D-12,D112,Audix D-6,D-4,MD409,MD421
Toms-All of the above and SM57,Audix D-3,D-2,AT4033
Snare-SM57,Audix D-2,D-3,D-4,MD421,Beyer 422
Overheads-SM81,C451L,ADK SC-1,SC-T,A-51TC,many others
Guitar/acoustic- see overheads
Guitar Cabinets-SM57,SM7,Audix D-3,D-4,AT4033,MD421,U-87,
MD409,other LD condensers....
Bass/Direct-Avalon U5 DI, Countryman DI,other pres w/DI
Bass Cabinets-AUDIX D-6,D-4,SM7,D112
Keys/Electronic-DI outs of various Pres,
Keys/Hammond w/Leslie-SM57 bottom, SM81 top
Keys/Piano-AT4033,C451L,SM81,AT3060,U-87,U47
Vocals-U47,M149,ADK A-48,A-51L,AT4050,SoundeluxE47,U-87
SM7,SM58,C12

This would be the "b" list with several 'special' mics thrown in.As you can see a lot of mics can have several duties.One good reason for having a lot of mics is each has a certain eq curve or characteristic, which at mix down helps in seperation of sounds.Also, you can do a whole lot all at once with a lot of mics and the proper placement for bleed reduction.
A lot of guys with bigger budgets should chime in....
Old 28th May 2003
  #34
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by gregrw
Hello y'all. Geez, I hope I didn't offend! I think there's a little confusion here...

Jay, I think we are in agreement about digital tape, because analog and computers can have many more issues. I also think we agree to have 24 tracks available...16 are enough most of the time, but those extra 8 come in handy as either extras or backups.

Littledog, I agree with your point about MDM reliability...but I don't think the original poster is going to be running 24/7.
No offense taken but to say that analog tape decks have more issues then MDM's or a DAW is complete BULL****. Everything has it's issues. The whole reason I suggested MDM's is because they're damn cheap these days and they sound decent. If it was good enough to make a record on from '92-98' or so it's good enough today. Hell, everyone knows things haven't gotten that much better since the '70's. heh

It's impossible to get a DAW with 24 real channels of analog I/O and 24 tracks at once for $2000 or less. Same thing with analog decks. Sure you can buy a deck for $2K but you'll probably have to put at least that amount back into it. If you use MDM's you need a spare deck. Also, if a deck crashes mid-session it's easy to swap it out and keep going rather then call in a tech or start trashing the prefs and rebuilding the desktop. It's also pretty easy to find a Trashcan service center or ship a DA-XX out to get it fixed.

At this point I think the only real cheap alternitive is the Alesis HDR. 24 tracks for $2K is mighty tempting and won't chew up a ton of the budget.
Old 28th May 2003
  #35
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by HaB


We'll shift the focus to mics, for now.

Tracking a full rock band: drums, bass, two guitars, keys, vox. Studio, not live. (Portability is a plus, but not neccessary)

Let's put responses into 3 categories:

...truncated...

Should this be a separate thread?
Yeah, it should to make it easy. Mic threads tend to get really long really fast.
Old 28th May 2003
  #36
Gear Nut
 
gregrw's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
No offense taken but to say that analog tape decks have more issues then MDM's or a DAW is complete BULL****.
Whatever you say my friend. I don't come here for flame wars, I come to get advice and occasionally share my experiences. It would seem there is no further purpose in my being on this thread. If you care to, I'll let you have the last word.

Ah well, I knew it was a mistake leaving the remote forum! ;-)

To the original poster: good luck with your setup!

-GRW
Old 29th May 2003
  #37
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by gregrw
Whatever you say my friend. I don't come here for flame wars, I come to get advice and occasionally share my experiences. It would seem there is no further purpose in my being on this thread. If you care to, I'll let you have the last word.
I'm not trying to start a flame war. But as someone who's owned and used all three setups I can say that each has it's own issues. The million dollar question is which has issues that won't hold up a session for a long time when the recorder eventually ****s up. And, eventually everything will **** up. Personally, I've never had an analog deck eat a clients tape. That's a pretty big issue. YMMV.
Old 1st June 2003
  #38
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
FWIW, you can get the Mackie SDR24/96 standalone HDR for a grand over here in the UK at the moment. Seems a pretty good deal, I think there so cheap as theyre being dropped what with all the troubles Mackie has been having lately. I think stocks are limitied.

http://www.digitalvillage.co.uk/dv/a...t.asp?id3=2753

It has a removable HD so you can buy two drives and swap them over if you fill one - no down time backing up.

good luck choosing,
'best
Tom
Old 2nd June 2003
  #39
Lives for gear
 
sonic dogg's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The main problem with the Mackie HDR's is the propriatary OS and the only drives that work in them are the Mackie drives at about twice the price of a standard 7200 rpm IDE drive which the Alesis HD24 uses..And the Mackies come with no converters or I/O cards these are extra too...and after all, an HDR is really just a tape machine without the tape...I dont think theres much difference in sound with ANY of the HDR's now available...Functionality is what is important.....That being said I would buy a RADAR system in a minute if i had the bucks...
Old 3rd June 2003
  #40
Lives for gear
 
subspace's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by sonic dogg
The main problem with the Mackie HDR's is the propriatary OS and the only drives that work in them are the Mackie drives at about twice the price of a standard 7200 rpm IDE drive which the Alesis HD24 uses..And the Mackies come with no converters or I/O cards these are extra too...and after all, an HDR is really just a tape machine without the tape...I dont think theres much difference in sound with ANY of the HDR's now available...Functionality is what is important.....That being said I would buy a RADAR system in a minute if i had the bucks...
The Mackie SDR 24/96 is not running an OS on a PC motherboard/ processor, it's poured in hardware...
You can use any ATA drive of any size/ speed in the internal position, as well as in the removable position with the addition of a $19 tray...
The SDR 24/96 comes with 24 analog i/o and 3 lightpipe i/o built-in...
Old 4th June 2003
  #41
Lives for gear
 
sonic dogg's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I knew the minute I wrote that I'd get a correction... ;-) ..
The Mackies I was referring too were the HDR and its little brother, don't remember the model.... i know the SDR is the more recent model they came out with to compete with the Alesis and the Tascam which was kickin Mackies butt in both quality and quantity..........

my bad......bad doggie......
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