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Tube Mics to consider without "S" harshness
Old 27th November 2009
  #1
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🎧 10 years
Arrow Tube Mics to consider without "S" harshness

If the budget is under $650-700, what would you suggest for vocals, where you don't have that harsh "S"-ibilance cutting your ears in half?

Male and Female Vocals.





P.S. Something opposite of Rode K2 when it comes to that S sound.
Old 27th November 2009
  #2
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Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifted ➑️




P.S. Something opposite of Rode K2 when it comes to that S sound.
LOL....you got that nailed! heh

For that money, I'd build one. I did in fact. Gyraf G7. M7 capsule/PF86/Sowter tranny = lovely
Old 27th November 2009 | Show parent
  #3
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Lifted's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 ➑️
LOL....you got that nailed! heh

For that money, I'd build one. I did in fact. Gyraf G7. M7 capsule/PF86/Sowter tranny = lovely

You got a point man heh

I might ask Mr Jolly in the future if he builds something like that.

How much did you spend on this mic?
Old 27th November 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Gear Guru
Which pre do you use with the K2?
Old 27th November 2009 | Show parent
  #5
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifted ➑️
You got a point man heh

I might ask Mr Jolly in the future if he builds something like that.

How much did you spend on this mic?
All in short of 400 GBP. But I went for it, took a Nady 1050 and gutted it, and had a longer copper body tube cut and didn't save on component quality. Not hard to do. Lots of help on the prodigy forum from people who have built these. There are a few other mics going on over there as well....check it out! Very happy bunny here.

Bear in mind if you go for a mod/self build thing, the capsule is VERY important so don't skimp there. Most of the sound of the mic, I am convinced now. To make that point this thread is rather potent. Check out what happens to a lowly Nady FET mic with an old Neumann K47 inside it (and MJ's wee updated parts of course...):

Neumann K47 vs. MJE-K47 Capsule Audio
Old 27th November 2009 | Show parent
  #6
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Lifted's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrislago ➑️
Which pre do you use with the K2?
SSL Alpha Channel

I don't own K2, I record at my friends' house, and have heard plenty of records he has done with this mic, and they all have that S problem.

For vocalists like me, it's not a big issue, because I can control my voice, but most unexperienced artists, especially young rappers are slashing the sound in half with that bump around 8khz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 ➑️
All in short of 400 GBP. But I went for it, took a Nady 1050 and gutted it, and had a longer copper body tube cut and didn't save on component quality. Not hard to do. Lots of help on the prodigy forum from people who have built these. There are a few other mics going on over there as well....check it out! Very happy bunny here.

Bear in mind if you go for a mod/self build thing, the capsule is VERY important so don't skimp there. Most of the sound of the mic, I am convinced now. To make that point this thread is rather potent. Check out what happens to a lowly Nady FET mic with an old Neumann K47 inside it (and MJ's wee updated parts of course...):

Neumann K47 vs. MJE-K47 Capsule Audio

You are right man, I remember reading about differences between K47 and K67 written by Mr Jolly, that had me convinced, and if more companies cared about it, that would be a good world to live in. You could practically swim in all the great mics like Uncle Scrooge in Duck Tales.
Old 27th November 2009 | Show parent
  #7
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifted ➑️


You are right man, I remember reading about differences between K47 and K67 written by Mr Jolly, that had me convinced, and if more companies cared about it, that would be a good world to live in. You could practically swim in all the great mics like Uncle Scrooge in Duck Tales.
Not just the type of capsule, but the specific one, as that thread illustrates. That Joly "K47" sounds nice to me, yet the smokey tone of the old Neumann K47 is a totally different animal. Whichever type of capsule (M7,K47,K67,C12,K87,C88G.....) you decide would fit your goal best, get a GOOD one if you end up building. Again, check prodigy and suck up the info.....
Old 27th November 2009 | Show parent
  #8
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Lifted's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 ➑️
Not just the type of capsule, but the specific one, as that thread illustrates. That Joly "K47" sounds nice to me, yet the smokey tone of the old Neumann K47 is a totally different animal. Whichever type of capsule (M7,K47,K67,C12,K87,C88G.....) you decide would fit your goal best, get a GOOD one if you end up building. Again, check prodigy and suck up the info.....

Yessssssir...
Old 27th November 2009 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifted ➑️
SSL Alpha Channel

I don't own K2, I record at my friends' house, and have heard plenty of records he has done with this mic, and they all have that S problem.
The K2 is actually a great pair with the SSL Alpha Channel. Do you De-ess after recording?
Old 27th November 2009
  #10
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Corran's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I continue to suggest the Oktava MKL-2500 mic for cheap tube mics that are smooth and have no sibilance. Especially ones with the authentic Russian PSU.
Old 27th November 2009 | Show parent
  #11
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warhead's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If you don't require a "tube" then you open up a whole world of possibilities.

The CAD Trion 8000 is actually a non-sibilant "tube" mic though that's half your price range roughly.

War
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #12
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toine6's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran ➑️
I continue to suggest the Oktava MKL-2500 mic for cheap tube mics that are smooth and have no sibilance. Especially ones with the authentic Russian PSU.
Agreed.
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #13
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DivineMusic's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead ➑️
If you don't require a "tube" then you open up a whole world of possibilities.

The CAD Trion 8000 is actually a non-sibilant "tube" mic though that's half your price range roughly.

War
i found the 8000 to very siblant.. even though a mercury v72
Old 28th November 2009
  #14
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Sibilance

You want to make sure the microphones do not have the usual 32mm/3micron capsules that have a big bump at 3-4 khz.

However, I know there are ones out there in your price ranges because I am pretty sure we make some.

Cheers, Dave

Advanced Audio Microphones
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #15
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CZ101's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrislago ➑️
The K2 is actually a great pair with the SSL Alpha Channel. Do you De-ess after recording?
Whether he does or not - the question is about what mic won't require him to do so. Anyway, in general, it would be better to fix the sibilance problem at the mic itself rather than having to resort to a band-aid process later.
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #16
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Michael_Joly's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Right. A K47-type capsule mic does not need de-essing, nor does an Oktava MK-219 / 319 / 101 or MKL-2500.
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #17
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rty5150's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
neither tube nor LDC, but the sm7b doesn't exhibit mush essy-ness when i use it. i typically run it into neve clones which fatten it up and tame a bit of the top anyway, but i don't have to de-ess with the sm7 like i do with other mics.

all of the tube mics i own:
ma-200
mxl v69's(one with 12at7 and another with 6072a, both EH)
apex 460 with 6072a

all could use a tad of de-essing, but nothing like your describing.
Old 28th November 2009
  #18
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🎧 15 years
Thumbs up

Groove Tubes MD1a
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #19
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Corran's Avatar
 
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I also found the CAD Trion 8000 to be very sibilant when I did a little shoot-out with a friend who was buying one of my MK-219s. The 8000 has the K67 capsule that Mr. Joly talks about having the high-frequency bump (along with many other Chinese mics).
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #20
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MadGuitrst's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
No matter what the mic, positioning is, as always, critical.
Don't sing directly into the capsule, ie: turn the mic slightly to the side - or - sing above or below the capsule, etc. and that can do wonders.

Now, for some mics with no sssss problems:

BeesNeez James - none, nada, zero, zip, zilch.....I can't recommend this mic highly enough but it's a bit over the $$$ limit.
Oktava MK319 - another mic with no ssss issues. Although it's no James, this is a very good mic and is the mic I would recommend for your price range.
Blue Baby Bottle - very little; I personally don't use mine for vocals, but you certainly can.
Shure KSM32 - like plain yogurt, but it's solid all around.
Ribbon mics - the Karma K6 is just one super affordable ribbon that comes to mind.
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #21
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadGuitrst ➑️
No matter what the mic, positioning is, as always, critical.
Don't sing directly into the capsule, ie: turn the mic slightly to the side - or - sing above or below the capsule, etc. and that can do wonders.
Exactly, mic position is very important in this case. I thought I was a sibilant singer and then I turned the mic a bit, works for me now.

I might be testing out some Beesneez mics very soon, because Ben will be passing by my city. We'll see, depending if I can. I might be in the middle of exam time.
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #22
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warhead's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran ➑️
I also found the CAD Trion 8000 to be very sibilant when I did a little shoot-out with a friend who was buying one of my MK-219s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineMusic ➑️
i found the 8000 to very siblant.. even though a mercury v72
I have to admit, the time I spent with the Trion 8000 was mainly in OMNI mode and that may have had something to do with it. I found it particularly forgiving in the sibilant range on everyone I tried it on.

That doesn't mean I didn't have a "special" one though, eh?

War
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #23
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Heartfelt's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead ➑️
If you don't require a "tube" then you open up a whole world of possibilities.

The CAD Trion 8000 is actually a non-sibilant "tube" mic though that's half your price range roughly.

War
Surprised me to hear you say this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineMusic ➑️
i found the 8000 to very siblant.. even though a mercury v72
my thought and I didn't have a great pre, then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadGuitrst ➑️
No matter what the mic, positioning is, as always, critical.
Don't sing directly into the capsule, ie: turn the mic slightly to the side - or - sing above or below the capsule, etc. and that can do wonders.

Now, for some mics with no sssss problems:

BeesNeez James - none, nada, zero, zip, zilch.....I can't recommend this mic highly enough but it's a bit over the $$$ limit.
Oktava MK319 - another mic with no ssss issues. Although it's no James, this is a very good mic and is the mic I would recommend for your price range.
Blue Baby Bottle - very little; I personally don't use mine for vocals, but you certainly can.
Shure KSM32 - like plain yogurt, but it's solid all around.
Ribbon mics - the Karma K6 is just one super affordable ribbon that comes to mind.
I am having GREAT results with the James.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrislago ➑️
Exactly, mic position is very important in this case. I thought I was a sibilant singer and then I turned the mic a bit, works for me now.

I might be testing out some Beesneez mics very soon, because Ben will be passing by my city. We'll see, depending if I can. I might be in the middle of exam time.
Chris, I think you will love your time with BN mics.
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #24
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Acoustic Cloud's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadGuitrst ➑️
No matter what the mic, positioning is, as always, critical.
Don't sing directly into the capsule, ie: turn the mic slightly to the side - or - sing above or below the capsule, etc. and that can do wonders.

Now, for some mics with no sssss problems:

BeesNeez James - none, nada, zero, zip, zilch.....I can't recommend this mic highly enough but it's a bit over the $$$ limit.
Oktava MK319 - another mic with no ssss issues. Although it's no James, this is a very good mic and is the mic I would recommend for your price range.
Blue Baby Bottle - very little; I personally don't use mine for vocals, but you certainly can.
Shure KSM32 - like plain yogurt, but it's solid all around.
Ribbon mics - the Karma K6 is just one super affordable ribbon that comes to mind.
You said you would send me all of them......been waiting at the curb for 2 years!
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #25
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartfelt ➑️
Surprised me to hear you say this.
See, now you guys are really making me think I had the only Trion 8000 up on the stand that didn't accent S's......!

Gonna have to pull one out soon and listen to another one, it's been a while........

War
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great ➑️
Groove Tubes MD1a
Now THAT is a good one!! The old 90's one. If you can find it.........
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #27
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Oktava has made a new tube version of the 319 named MKL319A.

Tula. OKTAVA.

Not sure how it differs from the MKL2500.
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #28
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Heartfelt's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead ➑️
See, now you guys are really making me think I had the only Trion 8000 up on the stand that didn't accent S's......!

Gonna have to pull one out soon and listen to another one, it's been a while........

War

I trust your ears more than my own. You have me wondering what I should have tried differently. Maybe my position was wrong. I got useable results after much tweaking itb.
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #29
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MadGuitrst's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acoustic Cloud ➑️
You said you would send me all of them......been waiting at the curb for 2 years!
I'll send them to you, no prob!....along with the Baby Bottle and MXL M3 I've been promising for 2 years.

Seriously Home-Skillet, give me a ring (not a wedding ring, I'm not that kind of guy ) and I'll send them to ya.

Oh wait - it'll have to be after XMAS - I worked at UPS for one season, long before the internet, and....well.....it's amazing that anything makes it safely.
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #30
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MadGuitrst's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartfelt ➑️
I trust your ears more than my own.
I don't trust anybody's ears more than my own....nor should anyone else.
πŸ“ Reply

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