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Tube Mics to consider without "S" harshness
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #31
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadGuitrst ➑️
I don't trust anybody's ears more than my own....nor should anyone else.
hehhehhehhehhehthumbsup
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #32
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Lifted's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly ➑️
Right. A K47-type capsule mic does not need de-essing, nor does an Oktava MK-219 / 319 / 101 or MKL-2500.

Michael, I have sent you an email, please check it out.

Can you replace just the capsule to K47 if I was to buy something like Karma K-58, and how much would it be?
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #34
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Lifted's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
WHOAH!

That's HELLA expensive!

HAHAHA...

I need something less than $650, for sure
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #35
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifted ➑️
WHOAH!

That's HELLA expensive!

HAHAHA...

I need something less than $650, for sure
you may be able to swing a 4060 used though. I know for me I had seen between $170-$300 for used AT40series mics such as the 4040, 4033, 4050, and on occasion the 4047.

I liked my Groove Tubes GT66 but I'm sure the MD1 tube model would probably be better suited to your desired tone and would likely be around your price range.
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #36
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithMoonwannabe ➑️
you may be able to swing a 4060 used though. I know for me I had seen between $170-$300 for used AT40series mics such as the 4040, 4033, 4050, and on occasion the 4047.

I liked my Groove Tubes GT66 but I'm sure the MD1 tube model would probably be better suited to your desired tone and would likely be around your price range.
I feel you man, I looked at Groove Tubes GT66 and MD1 yesterday, do you think it's nice on vocals ?
(I think in MD1 manual it says: "works for some type of vocals" ... I got scared )

I'm used to a manual that says: "WORKS FOR EVERYTHING!"

HAHAH, but thanks for real.
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #37
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KeithMoonwannabe's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
no mic works great for everything....if possible try anything before buying and decide for yourself your ears are a far better judge than a manufacturers marketing ploys
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #38
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithMoonwannabe ➑️
no mic works great for everything....if possible try anything before buying and decide for yourself your ears are a far better judge than a manufacturers marketing ploys
I wish I could dude, more than half the time, it's not possible
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #39
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Michael_Joly's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifted ➑️
You got a point man heh

I might ask Mr Jolly in the future if he builds something like that.

How much did you spend on this mic?
I've got a MJE-K47 capsule tube mic coming out early in 2010. For now I have an Apex 460 mod with that capsule and a full suite of mods. Mic and mods come in under your budget.
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #40
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly ➑️
I've got a MJE-K47 capsule tube mic coming out early in 2010. For now I have an Apex 460 mod with that capsule and a full suite of mods. Mic and mods come in under your budget.

How much would you charge to change a capsule to K47 in Karma K-58 or Rode NTK?
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #41
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Sounds Great's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifted ➑️
I feel you man, I looked at Groove Tubes GT66 and MD1 yesterday, do you think it's nice on vocals ?
(I think in MD1 manual it says: "works for some type of vocals" ... I got scared )

I'm used to a manual that says: "WORKS FOR EVERYTHING!"

HAHAH, but thanks for real.
Here's a tune I sang through the MD1a with a karaoke backing track.
Old 28th November 2009 | Show parent
  #42
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Lifted's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by sounds great ➑️
here's a tune a sang through the md1a with a karaoke backing track.

THANK YOU!


l
Old 29th November 2009 | Show parent
  #43
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Michael_Joly's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifted ➑️
How much would you charge to change a capsule to K47 in Karma K-58 or Rode NTK?
Take a look at my MJE-K47 mod suite - capsule, headbasket and signal path upgrades. Though I'll have to tell you, I don't like the acoustical design of the K-58's grille and would want to cut all those bands out and replace with a more open single layer grille. I wouldn't take that mic in unless I could do that because I don't want an MJE-K47 capsule sitting in a stock K-58 headbasket. The NTK could be done for a bit less because the headbasket only needs to be converted to a single layer grille and not completely altered.
Old 29th November 2009 | Show parent
  #44
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stevetgn's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
To the OP
S Harshness is the problem with most cheap to mid priced Chinese so called "warm" valve/tube mics.

If it must be tube, try the Lauten Audio Horizon. It's quiet a bright and clear mic but never harsh and has a lovely high-end.

Lauten Audio - Horizon Tube Condenser Microphone
Old 29th November 2009 | Show parent
  #45
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Heartfelt's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadGuitrst ➑️
I don't trust anybody's ears more than my own....nor should anyone else.
suit yourself. There are lots of peeps with experience beyond either of ours.
Old 29th November 2009
  #46
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Haz-Mat-Strat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifted ➑️
If the budget is under $650-700, what would you suggest for vocals, where you don't have that harsh "S"-ibilance cutting your ears in half?

Male and Female Vocals.





P.S. Something opposite of Rode K2 when it comes to that S sound.
Hi Lifted,

There are many options available to you. Check out the Dutch Custom Microphones and Mods This is an Apex 460 with a C12 or 251 style circuit. The capsule is an ADK TT. Other capsules are available. The mic is brite but not sibilant. The mic is balanced with a nice low end. The transformer is a Cinemag. Other transformers are also available.
You can also buy a donor mic (cheap condenser) and do a submini circuit. Tube mic mods Custom Microphones and Mods. I do a MXL 990 submini mod that sounds fat and full. The 5703 tube has a wonderful big bass. Think Korby CM3, submini 5703 with a Jensen transformer.
All of these mics sound nice without the Asian Fizzz.

10% GS Discount

MXL 990 Tube mic mod

Tube Mics to consider without "S" harshness



Best Regards,
Jim Jacobsen
JJ Audio
Custom Microphones and Mods
Old 29th November 2009 | Show parent
  #47
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartfelt ➑️
suit yourself. There are lots of peeps with experience beyond either of ours.
Indeed, but even so, they are not the ones using the thing when you're looking at it.......regardless of experience, different things/tools work for different people to achieve different goals. In the end it generally sounds like someone has made a recording of music, but in the middle it's YOU and whatever toy you chose to help you create YOUR vision.......and you will still curse if the thing doesn't work YOUR way, even if Bruce Swedien loves it.
Old 29th November 2009 | Show parent
  #48
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MadGuitrst's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 ➑️
Indeed, but even so, they are not the ones using the thing when you're looking at it.......regardless of experience, different things/tools work for different people to achieve different goals. In the end it generally sounds like someone has made a recording of music, but in the middle it's YOU and whatever toy you chose to help you create YOUR vision.......and you will still curse if the thing doesn't work YOUR way, even if Bruce Swedien loves it.
That nails it.
Old 29th November 2009 | Show parent
  #49
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
I just got my Apex 460 back from Michael the day before thanksgiving. Let's just say I had more to be thankful for the next day . Seriously though, if you can't get an awesome sound with that, then the mic isn't the problem. There's a reason why it got the most votes on the shoot-out they did a while back.

I think Front End Audio has the Apex 460 for $189 with free shipping. The mod is one of his most expensive, but there's a long page of what all goes into it, every detail is considered. I can tell you of a story where I sent him two mxl 604s mics, which the bodies were made of different metals (aluminum and brass), and he noticed that they made different sounds only when the bodies were rubbed against something. That is redefining the phrase "attention to detail." I think that is also something he says he may be too obsessed with.

Anyways, I'll tell you this much, go ahead and get the Apex with the mod. If you don't like it, I'll buy it from you. I could use another now that I know what it sounds like.

-Tennis out
Old 29th November 2009 | Show parent
  #50
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Heartfelt's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadGuitrst ➑️
That nails it.
fine.

If I have a specific result with a product and I don't "get it", and Bruce Sweiden says it works well for the application, am I or "you" just to say "screw it" and blow it off? If that is how you think and operate, that is cool. I value being teachable and humility enough to give it another go. If you fault me for that, then comment and emoticon away, fellas.

I don't need the philosophy of working through issues for myself. You both blew the point up to the extreme. My point as pretty simple and a valuable one to me. If we can't use and build upon the success and wisdom others and are simply left to fend for ourselves, then what is the point of discussion? (Now I blew it up the other direction)
Rob
Old 29th November 2009 | Show parent
  #51
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MadGuitrst's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartfelt ➑️
fine.

If I have a specific result with a product and I don't "get it", and Bruce Sweiden says it works well for the application, am I or "you" just to say "screw it" and blow it off?
If it doesn't work for me, it doesn't matter if God, Allah, Buddha AND Bruce Swedien says it's great.

BTW, according to your example, everyone might be using the same mics as Bruce Swedien and nothing else.

Quote:
I value being teachable and humility enough to give it another go.
It has nothing to do with being teachable or humility. It's about what works best for someone in THEIR environment, with the source THEY are recording, with THEIR signal chain, and what satisfies THEIR OWN ears. I bet Mr. Swedien would probably give you similar advice.

Quote:
If you fault me for that
I don't fault you for anything, it's just varying opinions and I respect yours, regardless of whether I agree or not.
I don't find anything wrong with varying opinions, do you?

Quote:
I don't need the philosophy of working through issues for myself.
Wow! Well, there goes the teach-ability....or maybe you meant tell-ability. How can you learn, I mean really learn, without trying something out for yourself? Wow........that's a pretty unbelievable statement/"philosophy".

Quote:
You both blew the point up to the extreme. My point as pretty simple and a valuable one to me. If we can't use and build upon the success and wisdom others and are simply left to fend for ourselves, then what is the point of discussion? (Now I blew it up the other direction)
Rob
I think my point was pretty simple too. No one said to ignore the opinions of others, but no matter what anyone else says, if it doesn't work for you then it doesn't work for you. It's simply my opinion that I won't be satisfied painting by numbers.......
Old 29th November 2009 | Show parent
  #52
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartfelt ➑️
fine.

If I have a specific result with a product and I don't "get it", and Bruce Sweiden says it works well for the application, am I or "you" just to say "screw it" and blow it off? If that is how you think and operate, that is cool. I value being teachable and humility enough to give it another go. If you fault me for that, then comment and emoticon away, fellas.

I don't need the philosophy of working through issues for myself. You both blew the point up to the extreme. My point as pretty simple and a valuable one to me. If we can't use and build upon the success and wisdom others and are simply left to fend for ourselves, then what is the point of discussion? (Now I blew it up the other direction)
Rob
I think the James you have pretty much covers a lot of vocals out there. Warm, non sibilant mic. I really loved the Video of Orianthi (is that her name) singing through the james, that gave me a wow factor. Very 3 dimensional, I really can't wait to try it out. I think a person on GS had one and lives in my city. If you're reading this, contact me, I want to try it out.
Old 29th November 2009 | Show parent
  #53
Lives for gear
 
Lifted's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haz-Mat-Strat ➑️
Hi Lifted,

There are many options available to you. Check out the Dutch Custom Microphones and Mods This is an Apex 460 with a C12 or 251 style circuit. The capsule is an ADK TT. Other capsules are available. The mic is brite but not sibilant. The mic is balanced with a nice low end. The transformer is a Cinemag. Other transformers are also available.
You can also buy a donor mic (cheap condenser) and do a submini circuit. Tube mic mods Custom Microphones and Mods. I do a MXL 990 submini mod that sounds fat and full. The 5703 tube has a wonderful big bass. Think Korby CM3, submini 5703 with a Jensen transformer.
All of these mics sound nice without the Asian Fizzz.

10% GS Discount

MXL 990 Tube mic mod

Tube Mics to consider without "S" harshness



Best Regards,
Jim Jacobsen
JJ Audio
Custom Microphones and Mods

Thanks for the links man.

Do you replace capsules in other mics such as Karma 58 and Rode NTK?

If so how much would you charge, for just that?

P.S. Do you mod the mics I listed with High Frequency De-emphasis circuit also, or not?
Old 29th November 2009 | Show parent
  #54
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Haz-Mat-Strat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifted ➑️
Thanks for the links man.

Do you replace capsules in other mics such as Karma 58 and Rode NTK?

If so how much would you charge, for just that?

P.S. Do you mod the mics I listed with High Frequency De-emphasis circuit also, or not?
Hi Lifted,

I replace capsules in the Karma and the NTK. The Karma looks very much like a Thiele M4 mic that I have. The front grill reflects sound back into the capsule and changes the response of the microphone. It is hard to determine the end result of a capsule change for that mic. The capsule change alone is $45.00 plus capsule. If other mods are done, the capsule change is $25.00.

The Karma mic can be improved with a different transformer. AMI, Jensen or Cinemag would be good choices to improve this mic. The clairity and detail will improve. The Cinemag and Jensen are very transparent and won't add much "color." The AMI will give you the classic AKG C12 transformer sound.
Some of the harsh sibilance may be due to the 12ax7 in the mic. Try a NOS GE 5 star 6072. These tubes are amazing in these circuits and will increase the head room.
Yes I do a HF mod and custom tune the mic to roll off some of the high end.

I believe the NTK has a custom Jensen transformer installed.

Jim Jacobsen
JJ Audio
Custom Microphones and Mods
Attached Thumbnails
Tube Mics to consider without "S" harshness-thiele-m4.jpg  
Old 29th November 2009 | Show parent
  #55
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Lifted's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haz-Mat-Strat ➑️
Hi Lifted,

I replace capsules in the Karma and the NTK. The Karma looks very much like a Thiele M4 mic that I have. The front grill reflects sound back into the capsule and changes the response of the microphone. It is hard to determine the end result of a capsule change for that mic. The capsule change alone is $45.00 plus capsule. If other mods are done, the capsule change is $25.00.

The Karma mic can be improved with a different transformer. AMI, Jensen or Cinemag would be good choices to improve this mic. The clairity and detail will improve. The Cinemag and Jensen are very transparent and won't add much "color." The AMI will give you the classic AKG C12 transformer sound.
Some of the harsh sibilance may be due to the 12ax7 in the mic. Try a NOS GE 5 star 6072. These tubes are amazing in these circuits and will increase the head room.
Yes I do a HF mod and custom tune the mic to roll off some of the high end.

I believe the NTK has a custom Jensen transformer installed.

Jim Jacobsen
JJ Audio
Custom Microphones and Mods

Thanks for advice.

How much would you charge to fine tune and put HF-deemphasis on Rode NTK? (Total $)

How much would be to buy a capsule from you with the replacement service? (Either for Rode NTK or Karma 58) with/without fine tuning the mic. (Total $)
Old 29th November 2009 | Show parent
  #56
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Haz-Mat-Strat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifted ➑️
Thanks for advice.

How much would you charge to fine tune and put HF-deemphasis on Rode NTK? (Total $)

How much would be to buy a capsule from you with the replacement service? (Either for Rode NTK or Karma 58) with/without fine tuning the mic. (Total $)

The HF circuit can be implemented in several ways. After the capsule change, I try different methods to find the best sound and fine tune the circuit. Depending on the capsule, you may not need a HF circuit. The HF tuning is $100.00
Capsules can range from $100.00 to $800-900 for a new Neumann. You need to find a capsule sound that you like and make a choice.

Thanks
Jim Jacobsen
JJ Audio
Custom Microphones and Mods
Old 29th November 2009 | Show parent
  #57
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartfelt ➑️
fine.

If I have a specific result with a product and I don't "get it", and Bruce Sweiden says it works well for the application, am I or "you" just to say "screw it" and blow it off? If that is how you think and operate, that is cool. I value being teachable and humility enough to give it another go. If you fault me for that, then comment and emoticon away, fellas.

I don't need the philosophy of working through issues for myself. You both blew the point up to the extreme. My point as pretty simple and a valuable one to me. If we can't use and build upon the success and wisdom others and are simply left to fend for ourselves, then what is the point of discussion? (Now I blew it up the other direction)
Rob
I think you went all the way out the other way now.....I'm all for learning from very skilled people. Tis the best source for getting good at this thing, no two ways about it. However there still are varying styles, and even if you were to try and copy everything Bruce does, it wouldn't work the same for you. For no other reason than you simply not being Bruce. So then you are ultimately left with no other option than to find your own style anyway. In doing this I'm all for cherry picking good chunks from as skilled people as possible, but in the end it will be exactly that, cherry picking, as not all tricks will fit into your style, regardless of the skill level of the source. Nothing to do with "fend for yourself' in a sense of ignoring others wisdom, everything to do with the fact that in the end its only YOU and YOUR style who's there when YOUR job needs doing........
Old 29th November 2009 | Show parent
  #58
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Lifted's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haz-Mat-Strat ➑️
The HF circuit can be implemented in several ways. After the capsule change, I try different methods to find the best sound and fine tune the circuit. Depending on the capsule, you may not need a HF circuit. The HF tuning is $100.00
Capsules can range from $100.00 to $800-900 for a new Neumann. You need to find a capsule sound that you like and make a choice.

Thanks
Jim Jacobsen
JJ Audio
Custom Microphones and Mods

thumbsup
Who here mods and sells modded mics?
Old 29th November 2009 | Show parent
  #59
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2Loud's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
[QUOTE=rty5150;4829891]neither tube nor LDC, but the sm7b doesn't exhibit mush essy-ness when i use it. i typically run it into neve clones which fatten it up and tame a bit of the top anyway, but i don't have to de-ess with the sm7 like i do with other mics.


+ that..
Old 29th November 2009 | Show parent
  #60
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BOWIE's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Tough call Lifted. What some people consider "smooth and warm", others consider "dark and murky". Same goes for the other side as it's a fine line between presence and sylibance. To complicate matters worse, vocals vary more than just about any other instrument. A mic may sound sylibant on one singer, yet perfect on another.

The only way to ensure a lack of sylibance is to get a dark mic but to really get it right, by reducing sylibance w/o killing the upper-mids and highs, you'll probably have to have several mics and choose the one that best fits each voice. That's my experience at least.
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