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Too much low end gear?
Old 14th December 2021 | Show parent
  #61
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Progger, you mention 3U Audio. I feel like there are so many posts on here about those and some other mics in the "budget" range compared to the U87, that it makes me a little suspicious of Elegentrum's price range for a quality LDC. However, I am willing to also believe that I just don't know the difference yet. Some of those things you just don't know until you've experienced them or worked with them. Also, I need to put a lot more into treating my mixing space before I could hear the nuances.
Old 14th December 2021 | Show parent
  #62
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by XHipHop ➡️
Don't sweat not having an RE20 and keep an eye out for an RE10 or RE11 that falls into the low end (not sure which EV's you picked up).

I was able to score an RE15 last November!

$450-$1000 for a microphone? sheesh, are you in Radiohead or Taylor Swift or Billie Eilish or something?
Got a question for you about this. I ordered an RE16 off ebay for a $80 shipped, which I figured was a killer price, but when it showed up, it was actually a EV PL95. Seller said it was just a mistake that happened when it got entered into ebay. Debating whether I should sent it back or not.
Old 14th December 2021 | Show parent
  #63
Lives for gear
 
Progger's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by caotico ➡️
Progger, you mention 3U Audio. I feel like there are so many posts on here about those and some other mics in the "budget" range compared to the U87, that it makes me a little suspicious of Elegentrum's price range for a quality LDC. However, I am willing to also believe that I just don't know the difference yet. Some of those things you just don't know until you've experienced them or worked with them. Also, I need to put a lot more into treating my mixing space before I could hear the nuances.
I own both an actual Neumann u87ai and a 3U Warbler MKID, which is 3U's take on the u87 design. The Neumann is, all around, the better mic for my taste and most applications, but the Warbler is GREAT, particularly for the price. I did an album in which I used both the Neumann and the 3U at various stages, and in the mix, I can't remember which parts were done with which mic (saxophones and woodwinds). I've done remote recording sessions for very serious high-end clients on the Warbler and they've all been very happy. It's a fully professional mic.

I love my Neumann and I'm grateful that I could afford it (plus I'm a full-time career musician so it's a justifiable professional expense), but these days you have many capable tools for making great-sounding recordings at a fraction of the cost.
Old 14th December 2021 | Show parent
  #64
Lives for gear
 
XHipHop's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by caotico ➡️
Got a question for you about this. I ordered an RE16 off ebay for a $80 shipped, which I figured was a killer price, but when it showed up, it was actually a EV PL95. Seller said it was just a mistake that happened when it got entered into ebay. Debating whether I should sent it back or not.
I randomly stumbled across a Tumblr post that made me aware of the PL95 / DS35 only a week ago. Until then I was completely ignorant.

I think the same text is in reverb listings now, so you may have seen it, but I'll include it below.

Ugh, sorry you got sent the wrong mic. The pitfalls of buying used and trying to score deals. I'd probably keep it, personally! But what do your ears say in this case?

The big draw for me to the RE15 and RE20 is the proximity effect tricks the mics do.

Yet now I'm curious, and I will be looking for a DS35 / PL95 of my own. (I don't know if the "a" designations makes a huge difference on these).

Guide to Vintage Electro-Voice Dynamics
or, Get Yourself an RE15 for Cheap(er)

Quote:
Electronic States

I bring up the DS35/PL95A here because I like them a lot, and they’re still cheap, but they seem to be mostly unknown and subject to a lot of misinformation online. I frequently see people saying they have the same capsule as the RE15/16. The DS35/PL95A (same mic, different paint) look like an RE16, but they are a different design with a different capsule. The intended application was as a handheld ‘runway’ mic, where the main priorities were side rejection and resistance to handling noise and plosives. It does not have Variable-D venting, and the capsule is loose in the headbasket and sits in a pneumatic shockmount. Despite being a ‘cardioid’ mic, its pattern is in fact much narrower than the RE15/16 and derivatives, and its handling noise is orders of magnitude lower. It’s also brighter, and basically immune to plosives. It’s a sleeper vocal mic for sure, but beware that its sensitivity is much lower, around 0.8mV/Pa (although this varies unit to unit). You might need a Cloudlifter for vocal use. I also like it on snare, hi-hat, and guitar cabs. Check out the DS35′s response versus the RE15/16:
image



Definitely a family resemblance, but a little flatter and more restrained through the low-mids, and with more presence and top octave. But the big difference is the pattern. Without Variable-D venting, proximity ramps up quickly when you get closer than 2″ from the source, giving voices an ‘FM radio’ tonality. Kind of splits the difference between an RE16 and an SM57, in my mind.
Old 14th December 2021 | Show parent
  #65
Lives for gear
 
XHipHop's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm back in the OP's position...

I have $400 to spend on mics to end the year.

I think I'm going to get:

Used SM57 $50
Used SM58 $50
Used P120 Black (that Chessperov won't stop going on about) $50
Used EV 635a $75

And here's where I'm about to make y'all cringe:

Used $125 condenser (can't name it until it's in my hands).

The last $50 is reserved for a second used P220 so I have a pair for stuff, or any rando $50 dynamic mic that I stumble onto.


In one of my posts earlier I was wondering if I should get Oktava small diaphragm condensers again...add a pair of those to that lineup and that's enough to make a record right there.

Or I could save another $300-$400 and get a used TLM103 or that new United Studio Tech UT Fet47 that Chessperov also keeps talking about.

I think I'm going with the "more stuff..."
Old 14th December 2021 | Show parent
  #66
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by XHipHop ➡️
I'm back in the OP's position...

I have $400 to spend on mics to end the year.

I think I'm going to get:

Used SM57 $50
Used SM58 $50
Used P120 Black (that Chessperov won't stop going on about) $50
Used EV 635a $75

And here's where I'm about to make y'all cringe:

Used $125 condenser (can't name it until it's in my hands).

The last $50 is reserved for a second used P220 so I have a pair for stuff, or any rando $50 dynamic mic that I stumble onto.


In one of my posts earlier I was wondering if I should get Oktava small diaphragm condensers again...add a pair of those to that lineup and that's enough to make a record right there.

Or I could save another $300-$400 and get a used TLM103 or that new United Studio Tech UT Fet47 that Chessperov also keeps talking about.

I think I'm going with the "more stuff..."
I'd recommend the Prodipe TT1 instead of a 58, love mine:

https://****************************...ic.php?t=70742
Old 14th December 2021 | Show parent
  #67
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by XHipHop ➡️
I randomly stumbled across a Tumblr post that made me aware of the PL95 / DS35 only a week ago. Until then I was completely ignorant.

I think the same text is in reverb listings now, so you may have seen it, but I'll include it below.

Ugh, sorry you got sent the wrong mic. The pitfalls of buying used and trying to score deals. I'd probably keep it, personally! But what do your ears say in this case?

The big draw for me to the RE15 and RE20 is the proximity effect tricks the mics do.

Yet now I'm curious, and I will be looking for a DS35 / PL95 of my own. (I don't know if the "a" designations makes a huge difference on these).

Guide to Vintage Electro-Voice Dynamics
or, Get Yourself an RE15 for Cheap(er)
Thanks for the info. I had seen posts saying it was the same as RE16 but without venting. I wanted the variable-d thing, which was why I ordered it, but it sounds pretty nice. A little lower output than my other dynamics. Seems like not too bad of a deal...just was disappointed it wasn't the deal on the RE16 I thought it was. :-)
Old 14th December 2021 | Show parent
  #68
Lives for gear
 
XHipHop's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by caotico ➡️
Thanks for the info. I had seen posts saying it was the same as RE16 but without venting. I wanted the variable-d thing, which was why I ordered it, but it sounds pretty nice. A little lower output than my other dynamics. Seems like not too bad of a deal...just was disappointed it wasn't the deal on the RE16 I thought it was. :-)
If it's so directional and side rejecting you can probably test having a guitar amp on the sides and singing while you play, etc. Finding out if the bleed can work in a recording.

See, tools!
Old 14th December 2021 | Show parent
  #69
Lives for gear
 
XHipHop's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I keep thinking about bill5's comments about certain genres, as well. I'm going to skip past if it was offensive, as I don't know if that was the intention.

Also, coming back to the posts earlier about all of this being personal. It is! What are the goals, you know?

And last, I LOVE the mics I have. except for my large diaphragm condensers, so those people aren't wrong either. I am probably not going to find love, until I reach up and buy a mic that someone put love into (sounds weird, but I hope that makes sense).

Ok, new plan:

Mystery condenser $125
Sm57 $50
EV 635a $75.

Moving on from Perceptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by floeter ➡️
I'd recommend the Prodipe TT1 instead of a 58, love mine:

https://****************************...ic.php?t=70742
And I will keep that Prodipe and other vocal dynamics in mind.

The SM57 and SM58, besides being good, were going to serve as "anchors" for me to compare other mics to. But I'm cool with skipping one of them. That was more of a luxury (I know the differences).

The picture of the "RE20 that Kurt Cobain sang into" with two other mics set up besides it (kicking myself for not buying a Lomo when those were sleeper-ish) reminded me that if I have the cables, pres, stands, inputs, and harddrive space, there is no reason not to put multiple mics on things and have those options later.

Back to this being personal, Instead of racks of outboard gear, I want my tone options to be mics and desktop / portable things. Someday a 500 series box will qualify hopefully, but outfitting one would cost more than my whole setup right now lol.

The desktop / portable nature of the Soyuz Launcher and Useful Arts Hornet interest me. When I'm ready to reach up, before the 500 rack, it might be a Daking Pre One. Or maybe it won't? Between those two, a bunch of mics, and my CL-Z...that's a lot of options!

I don't know if you feel that way about your guitars and amps and mic combinations.

Re: Tried and tested gear - people are using combinations that have worked, have been proven to work, have been on records we've heard, etc.

That's a path to take. There are many other paths.

I love talking myself out of spending money on here.

Last edited by XHipHop; 14th December 2021 at 10:02 PM..
Old 14th December 2021
  #70
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
X… I think the 57 instead of both a 57 and 58 is a version of addition by subtraction. But I get the willies when you say you are buying a used 57 (one of the most counterfeited mics). How do you know you are buying a genuine one? Unless you are buying from a person you trust, who bought the mic new, how can you be sure it’s a Shure? [Sorry, couldn’t resist that.]
Maybe buy the 57 new, since you were going to spend $100 for the used 57/58 combo.
Old 14th December 2021 | Show parent
  #71
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by XHipHop ➡️
And I will keep that Prodipe and other vocal dynamics in mind.
I like that too, but I didn't even hate those ten dollar Pyle things (PDMIC78) the times I tried them. Didn't care for the GLS, but the Prodipe and Pyles seem like they would be adequate for throw around utility dynamics if you need a few.

I was really surprised that some of those seem to have had no effect whatsoever on the price of a 57/58. Those Shures are probably within five bucks of what I paid for my first ones in the late 1980's. I'm guessing for fifty apiece you're looking at used ones.

Good luck however you go!
Old 14th December 2021 | Show parent
  #72
Lives for gear
 
Zed999's Avatar
 
I enjoy reading these threads, but this is mid-range really, it's not low end.
There must be millions of people more like myself where my entire studio setup from computer to software to instrument (yes just one) weighs in at around £2,500. It would be a lot less if I hadn't splashed out on a real Fender guitar.

In this respect I think things have changed massively in the past couple of years and still going at a pace where things get better and better and cheaper and cheaper, particularly software, but also computing and instruments. I don't use mics but I imagine the same goes for them too.

Maybe the forum needs reconfiguring to include a real lowest of the low end board.

Just saying.

Carry on.
Old 14th December 2021 | Show parent
  #73
Lives for gear
 
XHipHop's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman ➡️
X… I think the 57 instead of both a 57 and 58 is a version of addition by subtraction. But I get the willies when you say you are buying a used 57 (one of the most counterfeited mics). How do you know you are buying a genuine one? Unless you are buying from a person you trust, who bought the mic new, how can you be sure it’s a Shure? [Sorry, couldn’t resist that.]
Maybe buy the 57 new, since you were going to spend $100 for the used 57/58 combo.
It's a seller I know and he finally accepted a lowball offer, down from $70, because I'm bundling another thing or two I need out of his list of accessories he's selling.

But good point about the fakes. I would be upset.

And as far as the SM58 went, yes it had dents in the grill, as it should! But I will pass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zed999 ➡️
I enjoy reading these threads, but this is mid-range really, it's not low end.
There must be millions of people more like myself where my entire studio setup from computer to software to instrument (yes just one) weighs in at around £2,500.
No, this is me, too!

This feels like a revolution (I just started building up my gear collection since the pandemic and the most expensive thing was my CL-Z).
Old 14th December 2021 | Show parent
  #74
Lives for gear
 
XHipHop's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Sometimes gear becomes low end because of the constant upgrade cycle people love to be a part of (especially in the gamer / content creator / streamer part of the world, or anyone that wants to showcase the visual image of success and new gear).

Or someone is getting out of the business and selling off old forgotten gear (I was seeing so much PA gear for sale that serviced people for a long time in 2020 when the pandemic hit. Yamaha SPX990's for $125. That's low end now!)
Old 15th December 2021 | Show parent
  #75
Gear Head
 
I think you have to think about the things that inspire you to play/write/record. Those are the pieces that I think have value; sometimes it’s a beautiful German microphone and sometimes it’s a rinky dink casio.
I don’t make money from my music; so I keep a tight budget when picking pieces.
Old 15th December 2021
  #76
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
I must not be much of a snob. My two most expensive microphones, which I do like a lot, are not my favorite mics right now on… well… hardly on anything I can think of. And my third most expensive mic is down the list far enough that I can’t remember when I used it last. And it’s a very good mic.
I think of it much like neglecting children. And I wonder if that’s even unusual here.
Old 15th December 2021 | Show parent
  #77
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by caotico ➡️
Got a question for you about this. I ordered an RE16 off ebay for a $80 shipped, which I figured was a killer price, but when it showed up, it was actually a EV PL95. Seller said it was just a mistake that happened when it got entered into ebay. Debating whether I should sent it back or not.
Keep it! That's a rare one. Effectively a RE16, but with proximity effect.
"PL" stands for EV's then 'Pro Line".

They made it to compete with the 58, for singers who wanted a "big" sound. AFAIK it's the same as the more common DS-35.

FWIW I'm confident that'd suit my voice, more than the RE15 and RE16's, I used to have. Maybe even a RE20!

These will increase in $$, once people realize what these are.
Chris
P.S. Will catch up on the thread, later tonight.
Old 15th December 2021 | Show parent
  #78
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood ➡️
… the u87 sounds like utter crap on many vocalists…. People read that it’s a studio staple and assume that this means if they can afford one great mic, the 87 is the one they need…. There’s a reason there are so many used ones in the market lol

A proper studio absolutely does have 87s… and 47s, and 67s, and ribbons, and 414s, and all the sexy dynamics and everything in between.

The aea ku5a is a much better “expensive” mic… sounds better on a wider array of vocalists AND sounds killer on a gtr cab. An sm58 through a cloudlifter into a outboard preamp sounds like an “expensive” mic… actually, most dynamics take on a different life this way

Don’t let the cravings of the anonymous people in the rabbit hole of the Internet convince you to blow a month of rent on a stupid mic unless this mic is gonna make you money
Or just get a doggone U87ai!!

Chris
Old 15th December 2021 | Show parent
  #79
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Drumgold ➡️
I think the instinct to transition from too much low-end hear to a minimal quality setup is a good one. But if you have a lot of gear because you like to experiment, you may also end up with a lot of more expensive gear too. The potential downside is financial, though at least when you move on from things they are more likely to continue their own musical journey than to become electronic waste.

I’ve really enjoyed renting lately, especially amps and mics that are a price consideration. I’ve had fun with everything and bought nothing. If I find something that I need to have around at all times, the rental cost to discover that will be well worth it. Feels better than purchasing/returning too. But of course rental options are more limited than buying options.
Uh oh. This is so "me". It's like I'm getting spied on!
Chris
Old 15th December 2021 | Show parent
  #80
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman ➡️
Gene-
I agree. The SM58 is a “jeans and work boots” mic and sound.
Hmm... Neil Diamond's vocal on "Forever In Blue Jeans".
A 58? I'm a believer.
Chris
Old 15th December 2021 | Show parent
  #81
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by XHipHop ➡️
I keep thinking about bill5's comments about certain genres, as well. I'm going to skip past if it was offensive, as I don't know if that was the intention.
No idea why anyone would think that, but in this day and age where drama queens rule the day, who knows...regardless, I stated what I thought was an obvious fact: some genres tend to be more sonically demanding than others in various ways. That doesn't mean one is better than the other per se. Just one of many factors to take into consideration when buying mics IMO.
Old 15th December 2021
  #82
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
IMHO you're a pragmatist at heart. Which is more practical for most of us.
But at least we're not paying big bucks for a Harley, that we can get injured or killed on.
Since we can have (almost) the same experience, on a 58-ahem-Moped.
Chris
"Buying a motorcycle-or Moped?". "Not that there's anything wrong with that"-Seinfeld.
Old 15th December 2021 | Show parent
  #83
Gear Guru
 
bgood's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️
Or just get a doggone U87ai!!

Chris
Lol… one day I shall tell the story of buying an 87…. It started with a brand new one… then one from the 90s… the mid 80s and even a pretty cherry early 70s one. I don’t have any now. A few 47s (real and clones) 67s (real and clones)… and dammit, those sound cool on my voice
Old 15th December 2021 | Show parent
  #84
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
Yes! If the Neumann fits, you must acquit.

The ubiquitous U87ai sounds great on a best friend's voice.
Then those at GS, like Progger's sax/on "KD"s voice also-another cool GS guy.

Thankfully, the cheaper TLM 67 and TLM 193 are "fits" on mine...
If I ever go Neumann. Maybe the TLM 102 also, have to re-listen.
Chris
Old 15th December 2021 | Show parent
  #85
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood ➡️
No, it’s not relative. In no world should “get a u87” be a thing in the Low End Forum for crissakes
I never said get a U87. I said I would have been much happier if I had.(after going through 100 mic's over time).

Get you tools you can afford, to get things done. What made the difference for me 25 years ago was getting my first tube mic with a decent cap. In my case it was a Groove tubes MD1a.
Old 15th December 2021 | Show parent
  #86
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
That's a great mic. An excellent local South OC studio, still has one.
Chris
Old 15th December 2021 | Show parent
  #87
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks, chessaprov, I think I will keep the PL95. I like it. It sounds pretty flat but with a little top end that makes it sound nice on my voice. The foam inside is pretty much deteriorated, but that's probably not surprising.
Old 15th December 2021 | Show parent
  #88
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Zed999, you make a good point about this being more about midrange stuff. Actually, it seems to have become a thread about how maybe to transition out of low end (mixed with a bunch of reasons to stay). I really appreciate all the comments though. It's a fun read. I still don't think a u87 is probably ever in my future, but I may or may not have just bought another u87 clone... I guess I started this post as a confessional in some ways. I can tell that I've gone a little too far with my hobby, and I keep justifying it because the gear is so cheap (relatively). There really is something about having stuff that gets you feeling creative though.

Regarding the sm58 that has been mentioned. What is it about the SM58 that I just don't like? I like the 57 better on voice, but I think it's partly because one of my first mics was a shure PG58, and it just felt kinda cheap, and also didn't really ever think about recording with the pg58 because I thought cheap condensers were the only way back then.
Old 15th December 2021 | Show parent
  #89
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️
That's a great mic. An excellent local South OC studio, still has one.
Chris
What is “South OC”?
Old 15th December 2021 | Show parent
  #90
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️
Hmm... Neil Diamond's vocal on "Forever In Blue Jeans". A 58?
Far too weak. I’m thinking more of the band in Road House, playing behind chicken wire in a very rowdy bar. It looks like all 57s, as it had to be.
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