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Create a cool vocal chain for cheap
Old 22nd September 2021 | Show parent
  #151
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman ➡️
I had the original Pre73, before they offered any factory mods or a jr. version.
I did use (or try) the GAP mostly on vocals. I kept it for quit a while.
The mics were the RodeNT1a, the same Rode modified by Joly, an SM7b, an SM57, a Cascade Fathead ribbon, and a Mojave M-200.
The voices were mostly male and the material was not anything “dark” or “rough”.
I do really like the ISA, which is a somewhat similar design, on almost all of those same mics and sources.
On a whim I recently ordered the Warm, because I could send it back if it sounded like the GAP. I like the Warm. It isn’t kicking the ISAs to the curb… it is more like “equal but different”.
I would have thought the NT1a could have cut through it for you.

I know the DLX version was the first to have the tantalum caps (whatever that's worth?) but as far as I understand it has only a few other changes and is generally pretty close to the earlier versions otherwise.

So I'm not sure if the DLX is a bunch better than the earlier Pre73's or maybe I'm just less averse to pushing the eq a bit but I'm pretty happy with mine on many sources.

I'd say it can give some weight and thickness to things but if you think you are going to go without eq'ing it some to get things to work in a mix then you will probably be disappointed by it.
Old 22nd September 2021 | Show parent
  #152
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLast ➡️
I would have thought the NT1a could have cut through it for you.
Answer 1: On a good day the NT1a might cut through titanium. That’s what I came to hate about it.
Answer 2: To me, the mic is the most essential element in vocal recording. The preamp should either deliver or enhance the best qualities of the mic. Using a slow, dull preamp to correct a nasty-bright mic is not illogical, but it is not something I would do unless I had no better option.
Old 22nd September 2021
  #153
Lives for gear
Mostly joking there as you should see from my 13 year old girl emoticons. I'm not a fan of the NT1a either.

Maybe something like the Mojave MA50 or a Neumann 102 or 103 would have mated up well with your Pre73.

A transformerless mic that's good clear and fast sounding (but not icepicky like the NT1a) I would think might be a nice balance between clarity and warmth running into a Pre73.

Just wondering if you are a member of the eq hesitant club? A lot of people lately seem to expect a mic and preamp to be able to hit near close to perfect and not really need eq especially on a vocal. Not saying there is anything wrong with that method but it might explain the Pre73 not working for you maybe?
Old 22nd September 2021 | Show parent
  #154
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLast ➡️
Just wondering if you are a member of the eq hesitant club? A lot of people lately seem to expect a mic and preamp to be able to hit near close to perfect and not really need eq especially on a vocal
As I have gotten my little room flatter (both for recording and mixing) and finally found (and finally afforded) some mics that sound really good to me, I seldom EQ on the way in. I do sometimes use low cut on the mic or preamp, but often nothing.
I think EQing with the singer in front of the mic is distracting for both of us. I just concentrate on performance. If it doesn’t sound right, I would swap the mic or change the distance rather than EQ. And I don’t always EQ the vocal when mixing.

Regarding hesitancy, has the CDC given full approval for vocal equalization? A lot of audio engineers are waiting for that. Statistics indicate that right now only 25% of vocals in rural areas are fully equalized.
If I need vocal processing right now I’d probably use the “Wild Horses” setting on the Ivermectin plug.
Old 22nd September 2021
  #155
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
That's worth a shot.
Chris
Old 22nd September 2021
  #156
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
The "EQing thing" kinda kept me from sending my stock Oktava 219, to get modded by Sitler.

The other main factor would be de-essing.
Yes I'm still sibilant on that particular 219, as hard as it is to believe!
But it's less than my AKG 200 Perception.

Chris
Old 24th September 2021 | Show parent
  #157
Gear Head
 
I come back to you i will be home tonight (was in Italy) , from what i read about you gentlemen (thank for your advice)
I think i make the wa73 saturate its like 70 on gain and 0 on output, wich may lead to a dark sound.
As soon i m home i will try maybe gain 45 (sweet spot apparently) and use the output as master
I will not add an other rack eq because i can do it post prod (i do live twitch and its overkill but the compressor kt76 stay for sure ^^)

For my use the rode nt1 was better than the shure sm7 as it sound more natural and open for my hear, but it was not pleasing on screen.
Audient preamp sound more hifi than the wa73 for the moment (dark)
I would have love to try the Isa preamp as you mentionned it a lot here! (Use to have a scarlet 2i2 but the preamp saturate very fast and dont have a lot of gain on tap like the audient)
Old 24th September 2021
  #158
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
None of the Focusrite interface preamps are remotely like the ISA preamps. They are simply good, clean interface preamps.

Your settings on the WA73 seem very extreme to me. I don’t know what dusty corner of the internet your “regular settings” information comes from. There is not one “sweet spot” on the gain pot that would work for many different mics. Different mics often require more or less gain from a preamp. Using high input settings and the output at zero is not exactly “dark” or “saturated”. It is probably VERY distorted.
With the exception of some extreme metal bands, I can’t think of any good or even moderately popular recordings with obviously distorted vocals.
I mastered many records done on the legendary Neve console at Sound City. The tracks and vocals had some depth and “transformer clarity” where the transformers seem to add a little zing of extra harmonics to good tracks. But not ever a hint of obvious distortion.
Old 24th September 2021
  #159
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
When you were in Italy, were they burning the olive oil in every dish they made? That’s what you are doing with WA73 distortion.
Old 24th September 2021 | Show parent
  #160
Lives for gear
 
Progger's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman ➡️
When you were in Italy, were they burning the olive oil in every dish they made? That’s what you are doing with WA73 distortion.
Very well put.

This seems like a clear case of "please please please take some time to learn to use the equipment you already have before buying new equipment." (Sorry, Thomann...) The most expensive and desirable high-end pre in the world probably won't sound too good if it's overdriving from gain abuse!
Old 24th September 2021 | Show parent
  #161
Gear Head
 
Ahahah

Thanks to put in light my lack of experience, i will provide you an exemple as soon as possible for sure 👍

The difficult think is as i have the compresseur in the loop (is that ok or should i go serial?) , there is different gain stage and find a right balance is tricky for me as im a noob (note the audient preamp is bypass ofc)
Old 24th September 2021 | Show parent
  #162
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolf57 ➡️
I think i make the WA73 saturate its like 70 on gain and 0 on output, wich may lead to a dark sound.
I'm trying to keep track what you are doing here... what is your signal chain now?

Are you using an SM7b into a Cloudlifter and then 70db of gain from the WA73 into the KT76 ???
Old 24th September 2021
  #163
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
APOLOGIES!!
I just looked at my WA273. The 0 setting on the output is not maximum gain reduction. It is NO gain reduction. It is fully on at the output when set at 0.
Old 25th September 2021 | Show parent
  #164
Lives for gear
 
s wave's Avatar
Wait... Focusrite makes ISA - am I missing something here?
Old 25th September 2021 | Show parent
  #165
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman ➡️
None of the Focusrite interface preamps are remotely like the ISA preamps. They are simply good, clean interface preamps.

Your settings on the WA73 seem very extreme to me. I don’t know what dusty corner of the internet your “regular settings” information comes from. There is not one “sweet spot” on the gain pot that would work for many different mics. Different mics often require more or less gain from a preamp. Using high input settings and the output at zero is not exactly “dark” or “saturated”. It is probably VERY distorted.
With the exception of some extreme metal bands, I can’t think of any good or even moderately popular recordings with obviously distorted vocals.
I mastered many records done on the legendary Neve console at Sound City. The tracks and vocals had some depth and “transformer clarity” where the transformers seem to add a little zing of extra harmonics to good tracks. But not ever a hint of obvious distortion.
I think that 3rd Gen Scarlett "Air Button" feature is "ISA-ish". I might get tempted to upgrade to an ISA Pre One eventually. Although some think the original ISA 430 MKI is top dog, of the Pre's based on the first Consoles.
(I can only justify so many $$ on home demos)

Slumming it with a GAP-73 Jr., might be fun too.
Chris
Old 25th September 2021 | Show parent
  #166
Gear Head
 
Alright im back in buisness so here the test:

my singing is **** but you will get the idea:

signal go shure sm7b with fethead everytime into

1 Audient (no fx)
2 dbx 286x + kt76
3 wa73 + kt76

Wa73 setting : gain 50 output 13o clock
Kt76 setting : input 24 output 18 attack 3 release full ratio 4

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BX0...ew?usp=sharing
Old 25th September 2021 | Show parent
  #167
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
It's easy to confuse vocal technique, with vocal quality.

You have a good voice, but watch straining it.
(plus I'm PG-13 at most lyricially-with what I sing )
Chris
P.S. IMHO "singing along" with songs that contain harmonies, helps develop "ease" in Pop singing.
Using that as an exercise, to fit in with the group vocals, tends to keep a singer in the groove.
Old 25th September 2021 | Show parent
  #168
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave ➡️
Wait... Focusrite makes ISA - am I missing something here?
Yes. You are missing something. The Focusrite interface pres are good vanilla pres.
BUT… the Focusrite ISA pres were developed by Rupert Neve after he left his namesake company, reportedly as an improvement on the classic Neve preamps (and I’m not saying it is better than the Neve, it is just a little different). It is a semi-discreet transformer preamp. It was used in a tiny number of boards, and more often has been sold as single and multiple preamps. It is not a preamp offered in an interface. And, no Chess, the “air” feature on some Focusrite pres does not really get that interface pre very close to an ISA pre.
Old 25th September 2021 | Show parent
  #169
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolf57 ➡️
signal go shure sm7b with fethead everytime into
1 Audient (no fx)
2 dbx 286x + kt76
3 wa73 + kt76
Wa73 setting : gain 50 output 13o clock
Kt76 setting : input 24 output 18 attack 3 release full ratio 4
You should eliminate the Fethead if you expect to hear the SM7b interact with each preamp. The Fethead has a high input impedance, which is the only load the mic will “see”, instead of seeing the various input impedances of the mic pres. That interaction of the mic with the input impedance of each preamp is part of the sound they capture together.
And there is no 13 o’clock in the real world.
Old 25th September 2021 | Show parent
  #170
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman ➡️
Yes. You are missing something. The Focusrite interface pres are good vanilla pres.
BUT… the Focusrite ISA pres were developed by Rupert Neve after he left his namesake company, reportedly as an improvement on the classic Neve preamps (and I’m not saying it is better than the Neve, it is just a little different). It is a semi-discreet transformer preamp. It was used in a tiny number of boards, and more often has been sold as single and multiple preamps. It is not a preamp offered in an interface. And, no Chess, the “air” feature on some Focusrite pres does not really get that interface pre very close to an ISA pre.
But... But...
The Scarlett marketing says...
(cue "Just My Imagination" (Running Away With Me)/Temptations. )
Chris
Old 25th September 2021 | Show parent
  #171
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️
It's easy to confuse vocal technique, with vocal quality.

You have a good voice, but watch straining it.
(plus I'm PG-13 at most lyricially-with what I sing )
Chris
P.S. IMHO "singing along" with songs that contain harmonies, helps develop "ease" in Pop singing.
Using that as an exercise, to fit in with the group vocals, tends to keep a singer in the groove.
Thanks for the advice chessparov 👍
@ Bushman i will try without the fethead as well

That conclude my test im dissapointed by the wa73, i was expecting magic (like the kt76)
I guess in preamp the difference is subtle, the coloration is not the one i want, the dbx286x is really killer for the price 😮 one day i will try a isa one as they come cheap on used market 😊
Old 25th September 2021 | Show parent
  #172
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolf57 ➡️
im dissapointed by the wa73, i was expecting magic (like the kt76)
the dbx286x is really killer for the price
You have to listen with your own ears, mind and heart, but most of the audio world (with the exception of a small voiceover following) does not regard the 286 as any kind of killer. Granted, it has a lot of functions in one box, but none at a very high level. It’s a “learner box”, IMO.
Old 25th September 2021
  #173
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
Now a Coil 286.
Chris
Old 25th September 2021 | Show parent
  #174
Lives for gear
 
s wave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman ➡️
Yes. You are missing something. The Focusrite interface pres are good vanilla pres.
BUT… the Focusrite ISA pres were developed by Rupert Neve after he left his namesake company, reportedly as an improvement on the classic Neve preamps (and I’m not saying it is better than the Neve, it is just a little different). It is a semi-discreet transformer preamp. It was used in a tiny number of boards, and more often has been sold as single and multiple preamps. It is not a preamp offered in an interface. And, no Chess, the “air” feature on some Focusrite pres does not really get that interface pre very close to an ISA pre.
Thanks Bushman ! for clearing everything up on the real deal! Your info is most appreciated for sure. tc
Old 25th September 2021
  #175
Gear Head
 
I try a different wiring and the result is much better!

-i keep the fethead because i record with and without and its transparent 👍
-i put the kt76 in serial (instead of in the loop of the wa73)

The result is now so much better thats why the dbx sound good because it was in serial too 👍

Now im happy with my product (but still too expensive for what it does for my use) it open the sound suddenly and make the comp work more (according to the vu meter) i dont know if that make sense but its the sound i want now dark but with définition
Old 1st October 2021 | Show parent
  #176
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️
5017 is a standalone.
Plus Neve is superior to Warm.
Just sayn'.
Chris
+1 on ithe SM7B into Portrico 5017. I run it into OBS for live feeds. sounds great. Should be able to find one in the $800-900 range.
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