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Best analog Mixer for OTB home studio
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #31
Gear Addict
 
drsaamah's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by k brown ➡️
Beta 87a is a condenser mic that needs phantom power, not dynamic.
that is correct, my apologies. in that case, if the seller was honest and there wasn't damage incurred between the sale and testing of the equipment, I am guessing the OP might have been using a TRS connection at the mixer. Still waiting to hear back from him.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by drsaamah ➡️
i can't find a single b-700 online anywhere. i did find one used Tonor BM-700 on ebay, no mention on Tonor's amazon product page.
With that said, the one I see on Ebay has an XLR to 3.5mm TRS cable so the most pertinent question is the one that @ XHipHop asked.... are you using an XLR-XLR cable? Bc most (if not all) audio gear will only pass phantom power through XLR jacks.
Of course, yes, I'm using the XLR (feamle) from the mic to the mixer (male). I suspect that these 'East Asian' manufacturers sell the same product under different names cyclicly. It seems like this model of mic was released 2016-ish and today it's under the name 'Neewer' It's all fishy. Perhaps they switch it up to avoid bad reviews. They are probably gaming some system loophole.

I measured all my cables for continuity. The cable it came with is no good but my own cables are ok.

With a multi-meter set to 20V. I measured about .80 Volts between pins 1 and 2. .80 Volts between 1 and 3. 0 Volts between pins 2 and 3 (as it should be AFAIK) on each pin of every XLR out at the mixer.

All signals from my ROMplers pass through the mixer in the line inputs without any problems. I hear the sounds loud and clear-ish.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #33
Gear Maniac
 
slainbabyyc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dazzler ➡️
Of course, yes, I'm using the XLR (feamle) from the mic to the mixer (male). I suspect that these 'East Asian' manufacturers sell the same product under different names cyclicly. It seems like this model of mic was released 2016-ish and today it's under the name 'Neewer' It's all fishy. Perhaps they switch it up to avoid bad reviews. They are probably gaming some system loophole.

I measured all my cables for continuity. The cable it came with is no good but my own cables are ok.

With a multi-meter set to 20V. I measured about .80 Volts between pins 1 and 2. .80 Volts between 1 and 3. 0 Volts between pins 2 and 3 (as it should be AFAIK) on each pin of every XLR out at the mixer.

All signals from my ROMplers pass through the mixer in the line inputs without any problems. I hear the sounds loud and clear-ish.
Neewer is but one brand name that a variety of photo/video/audio products are sold under (others being godox, and flashpoint off the top of my head), they are known for being cheap but generally fairly usable for the price.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #34
Lives for gear
 
DirkP's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by drsaamah ➡️
i can't find a single b-700 online anywhere. i did find one used Tonor BM-700 on ebay, no mention on Tonor's amazon product page.
With that said, the one I see on Ebay has an XLR to 3.5mm TRS cable so the most pertinent question is the one that @ XHipHop asked.... are you using an XLR-XLR cable? Bc most (if not all) audio gear will only pass phantom power through XLR jacks.
I guess it is this one:
https://www.amazon.de/Tonor-Kondensa...language=en_GB

I don't know what to say:-)
Old 1 week ago
  #35
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dazzler ➡️
I don't use a computer for my music (I know). I have an outboard fx processor. I want to mix my romplers and process them with outboard fx. That's it. All my gear totals about 20 mono outs and 4 stereo outs. My budget is 300 max.
I don't know anything about mixers. But I know I want:

1. The best sounding one for 300 bucks and under (I guess best Pre's)
2. Used
3. No FX
4. The most amount of inputs possible for 300 bucks and under.

Any help would be appreciated.
It turns out I got screwed on the deal. The +48 circuitry is shot. I took it to a musician neighbor's house to test out his mics. That same day (yesterday) The power supply for my Soundcraft's Spirit crapped out. I've sworn off used gear and in a fit of anger, I bought a brand new mixer.

*gulp* I just realized it doesn't have insert channels and now I'm panicking. I would like to eventually get more outboard and signal processors.

Help me choose before it's too late to change the order. 3rd Gen Yamaha MG vs. Mackie 1402 VLZ4 vs. MIDAS DM16 vs. A&H Zed 14 ?! What's your take guys?!

Last edited by The Dazzler; 1 week ago at 05:18 PM.. Reason: Add an option and clarity.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #36
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dazzler ➡️
It turns out I got screwed on the deal. The +48 circuitry is shot. I took it to a musician neighbor's house to test out his mics. That same day (yesterday) The power supply for my Soundcraft's Spirit crapped out. I've sworn off used gear and in a fit of anger, I bought a brand new mixer.

*gulp* I just realized it doesn't have insert channels and now I'm panicking. I would like to eventually get more outboard and signal processors.

Help me choose before it's too late to change the order. 3rd Gen Yamaha MG vs. Mackie 1402 VLZ4 vs. MIDAS DM16 vs. A&H Zed 14 ?! What's your take guys?!
Well how many inputs do you actually need???

The Zed and the 1402 only have six mic inputs while the "Midas" has twelve so you are kind of comparing apples and oranges just on the channel count alone.

The Zed is a a bit more crap and toylike than the Mackie but we are getting pretty micro there as either will do the basic job but I personally would pick the Mackie.

The Midas I can't say anything about as I haven't used one. It certainly is a much bigger mixer and quite low priced for the number of channels and features.

Midas is now owned by Behringer so especially at this price point (about $350) I'm sure it is closer to a Behringer than an old real deal made in Germany Midas board like my Midas Venice 320 which has twice the inputs but was about $7000 new back in the day.

On the positive side I would say the Behringer ADA8200 I had was pretty usable (from the view of the Low End Theory anyway) even the micpreamps were ok so maybe the Midas mixers are decent for the price.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLast ➡️
Well how many inputs do you actually need???

The Zed and the 1402 only have six mic inputs while the "Midas" has twelve so you are kind of comparing apples and oranges just on the channel count alone.

The Zed is a a bit more crap and toylike than the Mackie but we are getting pretty micro there as either will do the basic job but I personally would pick the Mackie.

The Midas I can't say anything about as I haven't used one. It certainly is a much bigger mixer and quite low priced for the number of channels and features.

Midas is now owned by Behringer so especially at this price point (about $350) I'm sure it is closer to a Behringer than an old real deal made in Germany Midas board like my Midas Venice 320 which has twice the inputs but was about $7000 new back in the day.

On the positive side I would say the Behringer ADA8200 I had was pretty usable (from the view of the Low End Theory anyway) even the micpreamps were ok so maybe the Midas mixers are decent for the price.
I'll accept 12 or 14 line inputs for now and maybe a few of those could be mic inputs. I just want a working mixer by now. But I don't want to give up flexibility. But if anyone knows what the best analog mixer €400 new can get you. I'm all ears.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #38
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dazzler ➡️
if anyone knows what the best analog mixer €400 new can get you. I'm all ears.
There just aren't huge differences in mixers at this price point so you are being really overly hopeful here.

As I said a while back on this thread (late July actually) the best actual step up from the basic budget stuff is the old Mackie Onyx mixers that had the four band eq with sweep low and high mids.

The current Onyx mixers have just the usual three band fixed eq so even though they are like twice the price of most of the mixers you are looking at I doubt the new ones are all that much different than the other current budget mixers around.

With your budget there is no magic silver bullet here. If new is a requirement for you now then pick the mixer that has the features you need and push the button.

If you want better you will need to either spend a bunch more money (the Soundcraft LX7ii is $1165 new) or go back to considering an old used Mackie Onyx or a real German Midas.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #39
I can't help but feel like I would have gotten different answers to that question (..best budget analog mixer...) 10 or 15 years ago. It seems that I am forcing myself into a niche that no longer exists because everyone has moved on to digital.

Am I correct in thinking that the difference in quality between mixing ITB and analog is no contest. Therefore the difference between the old way of doing things (mid-range mixers) is irrelevant to most users on this site?

I have seen many threads where users are swearing by anyone of these mixers. They are all from about 10+ years ago. It's just tough to get a bead on the which ones are really good because their raves sound really subjective and it feels colored by emotional attachment to gear.
I think I'll go look at the Gear Database and buy the one that has the most declared 'ownership' between GS members.
Old 1 week ago
  #40
Lives for gear
Swearing by which mixers?

The mixers you are looking at are low budget not even mid range. This doesn't mean they are unusable or awful unless your expectations are really high end though.

I think in the box or out for mixing is much more of a how you want to work thing than one being clearly better.

I do like physical knobs and actual gear so patching a cable or inserting or bussing something with my mixer is just more to my liking. I do overload the line inputs of my Midas (still barely a mid level board really) sometimes when mixing down to put some hair on a snare or bass but it's not like running out to super cheap analog gear is going to magically make not so good sounding tracks into something wonderful.

It's really all about learning the gear you have and making good sounds to begin with. Analog mixing, high end micpreamps and other outboard can be nice and can offer a bit of magic fairy dust to tracks that sound great to begin with.

A $300-$500 brand new mixer on the other hand really isn't going to offer much besides tactile effect to working with your recordings, if that is important to you then go for it but don't expect that it is going to make your audio better just because your tracks have run through some rather clean boring sounding analog circuits.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #41
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLast ➡️
Swearing by which mixers?

The mixers you are looking at are low budget not even mid range. This doesn't mean they are unusable or awful unless your expectations are really high end though.

I think in the box or out for mixing is much more of a how you want to work thing than one being clearly better.

I do like physical knobs and actual gear so patching a cable or inserting or bussing something with my mixer is just more to my liking. I do overload the line inputs of my Midas (still barely a mid level board really) sometimes when mixing down to put some hair on a snare or bass but it's not like running out to super cheap analog gear is going to magically make not so good sounding tracks into something wonderful.

It's really all about learning the gear you have and making good sounds to begin with. Analog mixing, high end micpreamps and other outboard can be nice and can offer a bit of magic fairy dust to tracks that sound great to begin with.

A $300-$500 brand new mixer on the other hand really isn't going to offer much besides tactile effect to working with your recordings, if that is important to you then go for it but don't expect that it is going to make your audio better just because your tracks have run through some rather clean boring sounding analog circuits.
I'm not looking for better audio. I don't even have a mixer. Nor am I expecting much by now, I'm just trying to hook up my equipment. I'll settle for hooking up two of them and a mic now.

Even at my budget the market is loaded with options and all I'm getting is... 'Just buy whatever they all suck anyway' from a website you would expect to have knowledgeable people. pppffft! You gotta be kidding me. Well sh!t 400 bucks takes me a wholelotta sh!t shoveling to get my mitts on.

What I want to do: mix two ROMplers a synth and two samplers without repeatedly climbing over the table and yanking cables. (Limited Mic/Lines is OK, I just wanna get a mixer that's working, with flexible routing, without getting shafted fe' chrissakes)

You know what bro, what mixer do you have? I 've seen you in some of those threads sh!tting on these same mixers! You sure it isn't some form of psycho defense mechanism. In one of those threads people were saying Mackies sound exactly like Behringers!

user. Turbojet wrote a glowing review for the Zed14 here:
which mixer? behringer, mackie, or allen and heath?
As well as user KeithMoonwannabe vouching for A&H in general hard. (RTR and arrowsmith on page 4 for behringer claims.)

user memphisindie ride hard for the Soundcraft Spirit in this 5-start thread.
Soundcraft Spirit Studio
Old 1 week ago
  #42
Lives for gear
I didn't say they all suck, actually I said even the low end stuff is quite usable. Honestly you are quite lucky to be buying audio gear in 2021 rather than in the past because there is budget gear that is quite cheap and quite usable lately.

The original small Mackie 1202 went for $399 in 1992 (almost $800 in todays dollars) when it first came out and now you can buy a brand new one for $300.

The Midas DM16 you are looking at has 16 channels, three times as many mic inputs than the 1202, sweepable mid eq, both auxs are switchable pre or post, and only costs $329

It's unfortunate that you can't seem to get past your frustration with choosing a mixer and actually read the stuff I wrote.

Demanding to know which of the budget mixers is "best" is a fool's errand. The differences are incredibly slight and just like with audio interfaces you would benefit to understand this and choose one based on price and the features that you require.

I already went into what makes for the next level up from the basic entry price level mixers if you want to know what you would get if you spent a bit more or were willing to go used.

Yes, I did see that you claim that you are done with used now but I still think looking at the whole picture has value even if only to put other options into perspective.

BTW I did mention what mixer I use lately, the Midas Venice 320, and I have used tons of different budget and mid level mixers over the past forty years so I do have a bit of experience with the subject.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #43
This got me thinking.

Following JLast's comment about the price of the original Mackie. Brand new, It effectively halved in 30 years. I noticed that of all the gear, analog boards, and consoles deprecated the most in value, next to ROMplers and mammoth organs.

$800 in '92 or 2022 is certainly not cheap/entry level pricing but by his reasoning that mixer is cheap today. hmmm.

Would anyone agree that there is a law of diminishing returns in most tech industries? As in, the higher up you go, the more you have to spend for less and less return on performance?
This is called 'logarithmic right? and it is on one spectrum right?

In the sense that from $300 to $450 bucks got you a 50% increase in quality/functionality and from there to $750 got you a 20% increase and so on....until a $4,950 Console gives you +.76% in quality/functionality over the next most expensive Board. A logarithmic, spectrum with diminished returns, right?

Would you agree that this implies the lower you go, the more value you get for the money (up to a certain point)?

If yes, this leads to the question.
At what point did this phenomena stop holding true for 'budget'/mid-range analog mixers? If we are to believe the consensus on this thread?

Has this phenomena only and always existed at the high end? Or did it always encompass entry level/mid-range mixers? if so, when did the entry level/mid-range part of the mixer market homogenize?
What gear release signalled a complete level playing field at one end of the spectrum and a Game of Bones (dollars) at the other?

If one would claim it isn't clear when, we can then logically say diminishing returns used to be true for the entire mixer market by the law of inverses*. Right? Given that diminishing returns is the state of affairs today at the high end.

For every gear that gets Poo-Poo'ed on GS, there is a die-hard singing it's praises.

I have two theories about this...You're all full of BS when it comes to judging sound quality because 1. We all hear differently. 2. We grow attached to gear and the sounds they make. OR...at a certain point all mid-range analog mixers became cheap mixers because of the advent of technologies that rendered them obsolete for hobbyists.

Another point about sound quality. Whereas you can measure and represent numerically a vehicle's acceleration, or a computer's clock-speeds etc., sound quality on the other hand requires votes by panels of ear-trained pros in a treated room.
Furthermore, I POSIT that, a personal investment of mucho dollars (and time if you're into customizing) can color our hearing and/or interpretation of the quality of something.

Another question which baffles me is what spurred the trend to remove connectivity and features from modern analog mixers? Is it because they are used almost exlusively for live use nowadays?
Anyways just some shower thoughts.

*The law of inverses is something I came up with and a carry over from other parts of my life. I possibly stole it from some highschool math class. And it's possibly not as original or unique a reasoning scheme as I'd like to think.
Old 1 week ago
  #44
Lives for gear
Well to start with the Mackie went from being an American made product to being manufactured in China. Mackie dropped their price to not be totally out of wack with other companies building there but I would guess saved enough in labor to pocket a good amount for themselves as well.

Yes, you seem to be starting to understand the way stuff works. A lot of cheap equipment can sound pretty decent if you know what to do with it. If you want "better" that means gear that is built differently: discrete transistors, transformers, tubes, full sized not surface mount components.

This is where things get complicated and opinions vary wildly. High quality gear can be better in a number of ways but you can pay a lot for that last 10% of sonic quality. Some people are so focused on that last 10% that they will tell you budget gear is crap and that can give a very misleading view on things especially to someone without a lot of experience.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #45
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
And any of your guitar heros can make a $100 Chinese Strat or Tele sing. That doesn't mean they will play them to do their job in front of an audience or to record with for that matter. Just use the gear your budget allows and don't look for excuses or justification here.

Any decent Engineer is going to know how to make a SM57 work for them. The OP has been given plenty of usable options at his budget, now it's time to get your hands dirty.
Old 6 days ago
  #46
Hi, guys After getting shafted on the Yamaha and the Soundcraft, I decided to pull the trigger on a Mackie1640.

Between two 1640's which is the more serious defect? 1 scratchy pot (1640i, slightly more expensive) or another, a 1640, with one of two peak indicator lights not working? There's a 70 euro difference. On the scratchy pot one I can go personally and check it out. On the non-functioning peak light, its off-hand. Sent by post. Which would you choose?

Being wary now, I'd like to be as thorough as possible before giving up the cash. I asked to test it out at his house. He said he doesn't have a house, the mixer is at his girlfriend's house. He proposed to meet at the train station in Bologna. I have a multimeter, a mic and earbuds., I'd like to plug it in somewhere and test it before I give it to him. What do you guys think?
I feel like I'm going into the Forest of Thieves in the SuperNintendo Zelda game.
Old 6 days ago
  #47
Lives for gear
Scratchy pots can often be fixed with proper pot cleaner and excercise. Not sure what kind of access to the pots you have but I have even seen some success spraying the shaft from the outside and turning the pot a whole bunch because if even the smallest bit of cleaner/lubricant gets in there it can help.

Without any cleaner at all a ton of moving knobs back and fourth can sometimes get them to work quietly.

When I check out a used mixer I always bring a microphone, a line level source, a pair of headphones and a headphone amp or something that has one in it like a small mixer or audio recorder along with all necessary cables to be able to test out every input and every output.

The last mixer I bought the seller was amazed that I spent 15 minutes or so testing every single input, output, knob, and fader on a 32 channel board.
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