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New mics? Something in the $4-500 range?
Old 24th December 2019
  #1
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turtlejon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
New mics? Something in the $4-500 range?

I’m looking for a LDC, preferably with a transformer, in the $4-500 range, maybe even up to $650, if I had to...
I have an Origin, a Lewitt 440, 2x 4033, and plenty of SDC and other mics.

I’d like something versatile for vocals, acoustic guitars, maybe occasional hand percussion.

WA-14?
Warbler? 1? 4? GZ?
Advanced audio?
Mic Parts?

I recently used a 414 B-ULS, that I enjoyed, also interested in a 67 or 251 type sound. If I could get a decent tube Mic, I may be able to spend a bit more, maybe a vanguard v13?
Old 24th December 2019
  #2
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🎧 5 years
I haven’t tried it, but if I were buying in that range I’d be interested in hearing the WA-14.
Old 24th December 2019
  #3
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Ragan's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I’d get a GZ67FET or GZ251FET or one of the Warm Audio FET mics (87 or 14).

Do you want relaxed or forward mids?
Old 24th December 2019
  #4
Gear Guru
 
AA CM48T.
Chris
Old 24th December 2019
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
Some suggestions for less than $700:


Advanced Audio CM87
------------------------
http://recordinghacks.com/microphone...rophones/CM-87


Audio-Technica AT4047
-------------------------
http://recordinghacks.com/microphone...nica/AT4047-SV


Audio-Technica AT4050
------------------------
http://recordinghacks.com/microphone...echnica/AT4050


Shure KSM32
--------------
http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Shure/KSM32
Old 24th December 2019
  #6
Deleted fe72b38
Guest
Mmmh cheap LDC - not sure I ever really felt they sounded great when I started out.

I'd be more inclined to get a decent dynamic mic like the amazing Beyer M88.

Or at least save up a bit longer and go for something like an Austrian Audio OC 818 which at least will give you
a capsule of sensible quality - as mentioned above the KSM 32 is very decent too.

No matter how pretty a budget LDC looks and is marketed it all comes down to the quality of the capsule first and foremost.
Old 24th December 2019
  #7
The AT4050 is nice (no transformer though), I've got a couple of them. The Oktava LDCs are pretty nice too, and the B-ULS is one of the better non-brass C414s. I'd stay away from Mic-Parts though, the mics are really overpriced for what they are. Advanced Audio, Warm, and 3U Audio are good if you want a clone mic. A Warbler MKID if you want something like a vintage U87, the MKIVD if you want a 251 sound, or the MKVID if you want something that can sound like a U87ai, and vintage U87, and something brighter too. Of course the WA-87 will work fine too.
Old 24th December 2019 | Show parent
  #8
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Stu Gutz's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️
AA CM48T.
Chris
2nd this recommendation.
Old 25th December 2019 | Show parent
  #9
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragan ➡️
I’d get a GZ67FET or GZ251FET or one of the Warm Audio FET mics (87 or 14).

Do you want relaxed or forward mids?
I just saw your other post, so the “251” type sound has relaxed mids, the “67” type sound is more mid forward...
I can certainly see the benefits of both, lol! Maybe I get the warbler, #1 and #4 , just to cover both grounds...
Are the GZ models that much superior to the warblers?
Old 25th December 2019 | Show parent
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlejon ➡️
I just saw your other post, so the “251” type sound has relaxed mids, the “67” type sound is more mid forward...
I can certainly see the benefits of both, lol! Maybe I get the warbler, #1 and #4 , just to cover both grounds...
Are the GZ models that much superior to the warblers?
You might only need the Warbler MKIVD. Voicing 2 seems to be quite flat. The high end boost is about 3-4 dB lower in voicing 2, so it might cover your 67 sound needs. Attaching frequency response charts, they're not identical obviously, but I think the MKIVD will cover a lot of ground.

I just emailed Guosheng about it, because I've also been thinking about picking up a Warbler MKIVD for the 251 sound, and if it can get the U87 sound in its darker voicings then that's just gravy.
Attached Thumbnails
New mics? Something in the -500 range?-screenshot_20191224_223652.jpg   New mics? Something in the -500 range?-screenshot_20191224_224303.jpg  

Last edited by Dohreetoh; 25th December 2019 at 11:04 AM..
Old 25th December 2019
  #11
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🎧 10 years
So someone in another group recommended the slate mic, since it’s on sale. I’ve always been kinda skeptical of the modeling mics, is it any good?

I was definitely leaning to the warbler 4....
Is the GZ251 worth like double the price?
Old 25th December 2019
  #12
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
I am very certain that the Slate modeling mic is a very clean, neutral LDC microphone. All of their LDC modeling starts with capture from this mic, and their modeling is (arguably, of course) reasonably convincing.
An additional positive is that you have the correct mic if you decide to use the Slate modeling system.
A possible negative is that the mic may have a limited resale price range because it isn’t established as a mic with a reputation apart from being used in the Slate system.

If I was looking for a clean LDC, I would take advantage of this sale. Whatever I know about mics, I would expect that Steven Slate knows more. In a sense, he has picked out this mic for you.
Old 25th December 2019 | Show parent
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlejon ➡️
So someone in another group recommended the slate mic, since it’s on sale. I’ve always been kinda skeptical of the modeling mics, is it any good?

I was definitely leaning to the warbler 4....
Is the GZ251 worth like double the price?
Personally I don't like the Slate VMS. If definitely sounds like a mic that's been processed to sound like another one. There's a mod that's supposed to make it cleaner sounding too. I think said mod would be a good investment, it might be something in the circuit I don't like. But at the price of the VMS you could get quite a few Warblers (especially if you grab the single pattern ones). Which are IMO better mics .
Old 25th December 2019 | Show parent
  #14
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Ragan's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlejon ➡️
So someone in another group recommended the slate mic, since it’s on sale. I’ve always been kinda skeptical of the modeling mics, is it any good?

I was definitely leaning to the warbler 4....
Is the GZ251 worth like double the price?
You’ll have to scroll down aways but I compared the VMS emulations to a Warbler MKID and GZ67FET. I (and others when I posted the files) preferred the 3U stuff to the VMS by a good margin.

https://soundcloud.com/fir_out
Old 25th December 2019
  #15
Guosheng doesn't think the MKIV in darker voicings will get a U87 styled sound, it'll still sound like the edge terminated capsule, but with less high end.

I did get confirmation from him that the MKVI voicings are in the vein of the C800G, U87ai, and U87. I'm not a fan of the sound of the C800G or other mics that use K67 style capsules without HF roll off, but I'm considering the MKVI because it can sound like a U87ai. My instincts tell me not to get it, not because they're bad mics, because I think they're very good, I'm just trying to avoid buying clone mics. I'd like to open a small studio some day, so clones might be a bad idea for me personally.

So you'd need to get both the MKIV and MKI (or MKVI) if you want a 67 sound, the MKID will go darker than a vintage 87.

But that's not to say the darker voicings of the MKIV won't be to your liking. You might actually find it to be neutral enough even if it isn't 67/87 like.
Old 25th December 2019 | Show parent
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragan ➡️
You’ll have to scroll down aways but I compared the VMS emulations to a Warbler MKID and GZ67FET. I (and others when I posted the files) preferred the 3U stuff to the VMS by a good margin.

https://soundcloud.com/fir_out
I find the VMS emulations don't sound as close as a proper clone, and just sounds like the mic has been EQ'd. And sometimes that works, but I don't like it on the VMS much. There are some mics I like EQ'd, but I don't like the VMS emulation.

(example: a mic with a K67 capsule in a flat circuit can be EQ'd and get pretty close to the U87 sound, and it sounds really good, and it's easy enough to do, even an amateur can do it if they know the frequency response of the mic, or an experienced engineer who knows the sound they're after could do it pretty easily by ear alone, I'm just not experienced enough to be able to do it by ear alone)

Last edited by Dohreetoh; 26th December 2019 at 01:55 AM..
Old 25th December 2019
  #17
Gear Guru
 
All intelligent points, regarding the VMS.
IMHO the VMS is OK for non-vocal duties.
But I prefer a quality LDC, for lead vocals.
Chris
Old 25th December 2019 | Show parent
  #18
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Ragan's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dohreetoh ➡️
Guosheng doesn't think the MKIV in darker voicings will get a U87 styled sound, it'll still sound like the edge terminated capsule, but with less high end.

I did get confirmation from him that the MKVI voicings are in the vein of the C800G, U87ai, and U87. I'm not a fan of the sound of the C800G or other mics that use K67 style capsules without HF roll off, but I'm considering the MKVI because it can sound like a U87ai. My instincts tell me not to get it, not because they're bad mics, because I think they're very good, I'm just trying to avoid buying clone mics. I'd like to open a small studio some day, so clones might be a bad idea for me personally.

So you'd need to get both the MKIV and MKI (or MKVI) if you want a 67 sound, the MKID will go darker than a vintage 87.

But that's not to say the darker voicings of the MKIV won't be to your liking. You might actually find it to be neutral enough even if it isn't 67/87 like.
In my experience, the MKIV(D) is quite similar to something like an AKG 414b-ULS. It’s definitely not a mic with the mid push or bark of a U87. But the MKI(D) does that U87 sound extremely well.

I have the MKID and GZ67FET compared to a vintage U87 on that same SoundCloud page if anyone wants to hear it. Scroll way down.
Old 25th December 2019 | Show parent
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragan ➡️
In my experience, the MKIV(D) is quite similar to something like an AKG 414b-ULS. It’s definitely not a mic with the mid push or bark of a U87. But the MKI(D) does that U87 sound extremely well.

I have the MKID and GZ67FET compared to a vintage U87 on that same SoundCloud page if anyone wants to hear it. Scroll way down.
It's really the rolling off of the highs that made me think it might be similar enough. I like the C414 B-ULS, but I think if I get a Warbler it'll be the MKID or MKVID, because I don't know if the MKIVD will be good on my voice. I've got a recording in my improvised vocal booth thread that should give a decent idea of what my voice sounds like (used a cheap mic, the iSK Pearl for that sample, also have a few samples of different mics in my AT4050 vs LCT441 thread), if anybody is able to give advice. I think it sounds okay on my AT4050s and Lewitt LCT441, which I would say have more recessed mids.
Old 26th December 2019
  #20
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🎧 10 years
Great help so far, thanks. I’m crossing the slate Off my list.
I definitely really liked the B-ULS that I used, so I think the warbler 4 is in the lead. Now to decide on the value of the gz251 vs the warbler.
Or maybe a 1 and a 4, or a pair of 4s, or the gz251...

Any love for the vanguard V13?
And if I stretch far enough for that, what about the advanced 67? It’s got some discount going on right now...

Last edited by turtlejon; 26th December 2019 at 05:45 AM..
Old 26th December 2019
  #21
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🎧 10 years
...or what about the old Michael Joly LDCs? There are a few for sale around. Are they in the same league?
Old 26th December 2019 | Show parent
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlejon ➡️
...or what about the old Michael Joly LDCs? There are a few for sale around. Are they in the same league?
IMHO, no they're not. They're not bad mics, but Guosheng's are much better. A lot of Joly mods (and mods in general) came down to swapping a couple components and putting in an RK47 or similar capsule. That's something you could do yourself for $60 or less (those capsules only cost about $30 USD from the factory). Certainly not worth paying a bunch of extra money for a used mic with Joly mods. IMO this is the real reason there's not a ton of interest in mod services anymore, not because of the quality of Chinese mics (a good Chinese mic still costs a few hundred bucks), but because people realized that it's not worth paying a few hundred bucks to have $50 of components put into a mic. Guosheng's capsules are better than those OEM Chinese ones, and his mics are filled with high quality parts from the get go.

If I were going to pay for a cheap mic to be modded I'd get someone on GroupDIY to do it, or just swap the capsules myself. It's the same reason I'm against DIY kits that sell you the necessary parts at a huge mark up.

Last edited by Dohreetoh; 26th December 2019 at 05:18 PM..
Old 26th December 2019
  #23
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🎧 10 years
This ^^^^^
Old 26th December 2019
  #24
I'm more than willing to sell you an AT4050 for the same price I paid for a used one if you'd like ($400 USD + shipping, I can't speak much about what the mic has been through since I'm not the original owner, but they work well), and I've got a Lewitt LCT441 Flex on the classifieds for about $230 USD (+ shipping if you're in the US depending on price, this one I am the original owner of). I'm in Canada so there would be some sort of duties.

Those are both transformerless LDCs, though I would suggest the Warbler MKIVD for the 251 sound you seem to want.

Generally I wouldn't mention selling mics in a thread, I'm actually quite against advertising one's stuff like that, but I thought those might be good options for your budget.
Old 26th December 2019
  #25
Quote:
I’m looking for a LDC, preferably with a transformer, in the $4-500 range, maybe even up to $650,
Lauten Audio LA-320 Large-diaphragm Tube Condenser Microphone
Slate Digital VMS ML-1 Large-Diaphragm Modeling Microphone
Warm Audio WA-87 Large-diaphragm Condenser Microphone

Or get an AT4040 and then use the left over money to take me out for dinner
Old 26th December 2019
  #26
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🎧 10 years
Great! One more thing to cross off the list!
What about the difference between the warbler iv and the gz251? Is it a large difference? Just the output transformer is better?
Old 26th December 2019 | Show parent
  #27
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlejon ➡️
Great help so far, thanks. I’m crossing the slate Off my list.
I definitely really liked the B-ULS that I used, so I think the warbler 4 is in the lead. Now to decide on the value of the gz251 vs the warbler.
Or maybe a 1 and a 4, or a pair of 4s, or the gz251...

Any love for the vanguard V13?
And if I stretch far enough for that, what about the advanced 67? It’s got some discount going on right now...
I own the gz251 and had a v13 to try out against it for a couple weeks (vanguard does offer a free trial with the mic). The 251 has a larger high end peak and also sounds bigger in the lows (kind of like a 251 voiced mic should). The v13 was more neutral voiced and I also thought handled sibilance a bit better.

If I could go back, I might have rather gone with the v13 in the first place. Simply because I only own 1 ldc and I find that I don’t always want the peak of the gz251. If you are using 1 mic to record a multitude of sources, I think a more neutral voiced mic is a good way to go.

The gz251 is still a great mic, though, and excels on vocals in tracks that have a lot of space.
Old 26th December 2019
  #28
So, it sounds like a Warbler MKID and MKIVD would cover OP's bases if that's the way he wants to go
Old 26th December 2019 | Show parent
  #29
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turtlejon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dohreetoh ➡️
So, it sounds like a Warbler MKID and MKIVD would cover OP's bases if that's the way he wants to go
Thanks! That’s exactly the way I’m leaning, but I’m still curious if I’d be better off getting 2 warblers (1&4) or one mic that costs about as much as the pair, like the AA48 (or67) or the V13?
Old 26th December 2019
  #30
Gear Guru
 
These are all excellent choices.
If you have a "bright voice"-like me...

Still would keep the stock or modded Oktava's on the table. In fact, the MK-119 internals were upgraded, by Oktava themselves.
I got lucky with both my "clear" stock 219, and "dark" 319.

Acapella clip of the 319 below...
Chris
Attached Files

Song 60oldwaysdie319final.wav (1.57 MB, 1086 views)

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