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New mics? Something in the $4-500 range?
Old 26th December 2019
  #31
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turtlejon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I have a 219 in my case, I don’t really use it much, it’s quite dark sounding. Maybe I’ll bust it out and use it more.
If I had to, I can go up to $800 max...
Old 26th December 2019 | Show parent
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlejon ➡️
I have a 219 in my case, I don’t really use it much, it’s quite dark sounding. Maybe I’ll bust it out and use it more.
If I had to, I can go up to $800 max...
You might not want something with a 67 sound then. They're very neutral (to some that means dark, to me a ribbon mic is dark). They don't have the dip the Oktavas have, but they're still very flat mics.
Old 26th December 2019
  #33
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
I wonder how much the VAT is D? On those two microphones, you have up for sale.
Assuming they're in excellent condition, either/both would be an excellent choice.

Chris
Old 26th December 2019 | Show parent
  #34
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlejon ➡️
I have a 219 in my case, I don’t really use it much, it’s quite dark sounding. Maybe I’ll bust it out and use it more.
If I had to, I can go up to $800 max...
I'd never get rid of a 219.
It can come in really handy, particularly if you want to add "body" to a vocal.

Like golf, it's handy to have a variety of "clubs"-To help take your best shot.
Chris
Old 26th December 2019 | Show parent
  #35
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turtlejon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I got my 219 about 20 years ago, and I have never really used much. I wonder if something is wrong with it perhaps? It is close to as dark as my vin-jet, and much darker than any of my other LDC (origin, lewitt 440, 4033, etc.). I have used it on a screeching violin, raspy/ shrill vocalists, etc. when a darker sound seemed more appealing.
Old 26th December 2019 | Show parent
  #36
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
Your 219, seems as if it's similar to my 319 (that I did the clip with).

I really like those "dark" Oktava's, that sound "ribbon-ish".
Now that's become essential for me, when I do Stephen Still-ish/mild raspy style vocals!

Sorry, didn't fully realize you already had such a nice assortment of microphones already. (been a busy Holiday Season!)

For example, if my "locker" was yours...

I'd be particularly looking at the Lautern LA-320/AA 251 or 800/GZ 251 FET or tube. For that more modern "bright-ish" Pop/Modern R&B/Hip Hop sound.
(to balance out)
Chris
Old 26th December 2019 | Show parent
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️
I wonder how much the VAT is D? On those two microphones, you have up for sale.
Assuming they're in excellent condition, either/both would be an excellent choice.

Chris
I paid about $140 USD in duties through the eBay international shipping program. Though I did buy the AT4050s in a pair for $800, so about 18% from the US to Canada.

The LCT441 is in like new condition. One AT4050 is very good condition, one has a bit of paint scratched off the grille but no dents, and on the back the word "capacitor" is scratched off and has a bit of scuffing in that back area. I've actually seen that on a lot of them, I think it's the from the shock mount. They're not a matched pair but they're very close. I think the scuffed one is just slightly better sounding, but they're both super close sounding, I think they're close enough for stereo recording. Shock mounts are included with both mics. I'll be making a classified listing for the AT4050 as well and let the buyer pick which they want.

Anyway OP, the MK-219 is supposed to be a dark mic. It's neutral and mid forward, and it's supposed to be flat with a dip at 6k. By design it should have a frequency response similar to the one on Recordinghacks. The LCT440 and AT4033a have recessed mids and a high end boost, so they should sound significantly brighter. It sounds like it's as it should be to me. The LCT440 has about a 4.5 dB boost at 12 KHz, and a steady rise to that point from 5k. The Oktava MK-219 has a dip at 6k (it's between 3 and 5 dB I think, depending on the mic), and from 300 Hz on, excluding the 6k dip, it's basically flat with no major boosts, or it should be if it's to spec. It sounds like you really prefer recessed mids in a mic, so the U67, U87, and U89 sounds probably aren't for you. That dip the Oktavas have probably make them sound a bit darker, but the 67 sound is still very flat and boring. They're not intended to emphasize any specific frequencies, unlike the C12/251 sound which makes things sound airier, or adds "sparkle" to the vocals.

The U87ai might be more the sound you want in a mid forward mic instead of a 67 sound. That you would get from the Warbler MKVID.
Old 26th December 2019
  #38
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
One of my "dream microphones" has that midrange dip. The mighty Sony C37a. Never sang through an original one, but the recent Tonelux JC37 tube mic is absolute "Wunderbar". I'm hoping someday to get one, by earning enough "entertainment dollars", to justify having it. They're around $2500 street.

Otherwise it's kinda like buying a Ferrari, that you never take to the Track!
Chris
Old 26th December 2019 | Show parent
  #39
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️
One of my "dream microphones" has that midrange dip. The mighty Sony C37a. Never sang through an original one, but the recent Tonelux JC37 tube mic is absolute "Wunderbar". I'm hoping someday to get one, by earning enough "entertainment dollars", to justify having it. They're around $2500 street.

Otherwise it's kinda like buying a Ferrari, that you never take to the Track!
Chris
Yeah, said dip actually has a very practical use. It seems to reduce sibilance in a lot of performers' voices. For me, I'd like to make enough to justify a U89i and a brass C414.
Old 26th December 2019
  #40
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
Two other faves of mine. The U89i and TLM67 are the best Neuman's on me, within the current production line up. My one and only time singing/trying a "brass capsule" vintage 414 mic, was at the Heiserman NAMM booth last year.

Eric's capule was so good (great)-put in a second 414, I couldn't tell the difference to it! As you may know, the value on those originals skyrocketed recently.

No wonder that particular 414, and the original 251 are so legendary...
Chris
P.S. U89i is a somewhat underrated value,-both new & used-compared to the more common U87ai IMHO.
Old 26th December 2019 | Show parent
  #41
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️
Two other faves of mine. The U89i and TLM67 are the best Neuman's on me, within the current production line up. My one and only time singing/trying a "brass capsule" vintage 414 mic, was at the Heiserman NAMM booth last year.

Eric's capule was so good (great)-put in a second 414, I couldn't tell the difference to it! As you may know, the value on those originals skyrocketed recently.

No wonder that particular 414, and the original 251 are so legendary...
Chris
P.S. U89i is a somewhat underrated value,-both new & used-compared to the more common U87ai IMHO.
Yeah, I'd actually really like to put either Tim or Eric's capsules in an older C414 with a transformer as well. I've also looked at Austrian Audio's OC818, but I have yet to hear a good sample I like (the only one I actually found that was useful was in Russian I think, some of the nicer Oktavas are lacking English samples too). That's not to say I think it's a bad mic, I'm sure it's great, it just means it's not getting adopted very quickly.
Old 26th December 2019 | Show parent
  #42
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Ragan's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I've had a half a dozen or so 219s and 319s and one thing that's always worth noting is that they vary a lot. More than about any other mic I've had multiples of. Self noise, brightness/darkness, output level, etc. Significant variance.

I think they're really cool mics which can really do the trick sometimes. One thing I don't like is that I think they sound pretty hard, borderline brittle on vocal transients. They do have a cool, smokey tonality though. I like them on drum room and guitar and bass cabs.

I don't think they're in the same league as the Warblers. The Warblers give you a smoother, bigger picture of the source. I'll never get rid of the last couple 219/319 I hung on to because they're not worth much and sometimes they're really a cool sound. But I wouldn't try to make an all-arounder out of one, myself.
Old 26th December 2019 | Show parent
  #43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragan ➡️
I've had a half a dozen or so 219s and 319s and one thing that's always worth noting is that they vary a lot. More than about any other mic I've had multiples of. Self noise, brightness/darkness, output level, etc. Significant variance.

I think they're really cool mics which can really do the trick sometimes. One thing I don't like is that I think they sound pretty hard, borderline brittle on vocal transients. They do have a cool, smokey tonality though. I like them on drum room and guitar and bass cabs.

I don't think they're in the same league as the Warblers. The Warblers give you a smoother, bigger picture of the source. I'll never get rid of the last couple 219/319 I hung on to because they're not worth much and sometimes they're really a cool sound. But I wouldn't try to make an all-arounder out of one, myself.
I think the quality is supposed to be a lot better now. At least a lot more consistent. Anyway, the good ones I like as much as way more expensive mics.
Old 26th December 2019
  #44
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
Excellent points Ragan.

The early production run 219's were reputed to be very consistent- They were trying to establish their brand in Russian & Eastern European Film/TV broadcasting/Radio.
Chris
Old 27th December 2019
  #45
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turtlejon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
So given the new info, would y’all recommend
-warbler iv
-something else, possibly up to $750-ish?

Ultimately, will spending $400 more than the cost of the warbler give me a significant increase in performance/ quality?
I’m definitely open to a used mic, if the sound will be of a higher quality than the warbler...
Old 27th December 2019 | Show parent
  #46
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlejon ➡️
So given the new info, would y’all recommend
-warbler iv
-something else, possibly up to $750-ish?

Ultimately, will spending $400 more than the cost of the warbler give me a significant increase in performance/ quality?
I’m definitely open to a used mic, if the sound will be of a higher quality than the warbler...
It depends on the mic. I'd guess they'd be pretty similar depending on what mic it is. If we're talking about an AT4050, or AT4047 I would say similar quality. If we're talking mics that go for $750~ used, I'd guess the quality would be better, but that's not always the case. There are $1000+ mics out there using cheap components and shoddy machining.

The benefit to buying a studio "standard" used it that it'll hold its value. The Warbler won't. That's not to say the Warbler is a bad mic, they're certainly not, I'm looking at the MKVID myself. You'd probably only be able to get $200 USD if you sell later on. But this isn't important to everyone obviously. To me, it doesn't matter on a cheaper mic, like something $200 USD or less.
Old 28th December 2019 | Show parent
  #47
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Ragan's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Keep in mind that 3U mics don’t really abide by the typical pricing rules. With most other mics you’re buying from a dealer who maybe bought from a distributor (each stage taking a markup). And there are almost always advertising expenses in the equation too. With 3U, you’re emailing up the owner/designer and ordering directly from him. And (and this is what is really really unique) he owns the manufacturing facility. It’s just a whole different paradigm than any other mic company (that I’m aware of). All of this is why you can buy a mic with a custom capsule and transformer stuffed with good-DIY-level components for a few hundred bucks.

I’ve had just about all the usual suspects in sub-$1000 mics over the years and liked many of them (the AT4047, Neumann TLM102 and AKG 414b-ULS were standouts) but if you want classic, meaty, transformer-coupled sonics on a budget, I don’t think you can really beat the 3U stuff. I have seven 3U mics and they kicked some much more expensive pieces outta my locker.

Last edited by Ragan; 28th December 2019 at 02:14 AM..
Old 28th December 2019
  #48
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
My first choice would be used KMS104/105. Neumann handheld that is not far off from sounding like a U87. Can be used live and in the studio. I consider that mic a big step up from say a 57/58. Great for just about any application and easy to use. Good gain, but does need good phantom power. Most importantly, good off axis color. It's only drawback, it cant take the inside of a kick drum, and you can overload it with a loud scream and no mic technique. I now you asked specifically for an LDC. But I bet this is the right mic for your case.

used Groove tubes MD1A for that including a new tube.

If you want new, Advanced Audio does have one tube mic that's only $500. But if you are going to get and AA tube mic, spend $800. At $500, better off with the Advanced Audio solid state stuff: CM414, CM47fet.

If you get an AA tube mic, then you get remote control pattern settings. very cool.

Warbler is another option.

Once in a while, you can find a bargain once you know more about the mic's than the seller.

Last edited by elegentdrum; 28th December 2019 at 02:17 AM..
Old 28th December 2019 | Show parent
  #49
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Ragan's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Oh and I think someone was asking about GZ vs Warbler.

The higher end transformers in the GZ series (and a couple of other upgraded components) do make a difference. The harmonic content is a little richer and sweeter. “More refined” is probably a fair way of characterizing the GZ upgrade. BUT it’s not an enormous difference. Like most things in audio, the cost/quality relationship is nonlinear. You have to pay more and more for smaller and smaller improvements. So I guess I’d say the GZ is worth the difference if you have a keenly developed ear for things and want every advantage in your tracking. But the Warbler series is definitely the bigger bang for the buck. I’ve used my MKIDs for just about every usual source and they’re just great mics. If I want a U87 sound I reach for them and not the GZs without regard for one of them being “better”. I honestly think the Warbler series might be the best bang for the buck in pro audio.
Old 28th December 2019 | Show parent
  #50
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dickiefunk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
My recommendation is the Vanguard V13. This mic is my first choice vocal mic out of all the mics I own (KSM32, AT4040, JZ V11 and Miktek MK300). This mic has been my favourite on all of the vocalists I’ve had here and theirs as well. The Miktek MK300 was quite a surprise as is my second favourite but the cheapest of them all.
I have owned a modded Oktava MK319 in the past but personally preferred the JZ V11.
The Shure KSM32 sounds noticeably darker than all of the other mics I’ve owned.
Old 28th December 2019 | Show parent
  #51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragan ➡️
Oh and I think someone was asking about GZ vs Warbler.

The higher end transformers in the GZ series (and a couple of other upgraded components) do make a difference. The harmonic content is a little richer and sweeter. “More refined” is probably a fair way of characterizing the GZ upgrade. BUT it’s not an enormous difference. Like most things in audio, the cost/quality relationship is nonlinear. You have to pay more and more for smaller and smaller improvements. So I guess I’d say the GZ is worth the difference if you have a keenly developed ear for things and want every advantage in your tracking. But the Warbler series is definitely the bigger bang for the buck. I’ve used my MKIDs for just about every usual source and they’re just great mics. If I want a U87 sound I reach for them and not the GZs without regard for one of them being “better”. I honestly think the Warbler series might be the best bang for the buck in pro audio.
The Warblers have lower self noise than a vintage U87 anyway. I can't speak for the difference between the Warbler MKID and GZ67, but I would guess it's an upgraded transformer, possibly better capacitors, diodes, and resistors, and maybe machining is a bit better. But the fact that a $350 USD mic gets you so close to a mic that sells for upwards of $2500 is amazing. I'm still trying to decide between a Warbler MKVID (or maybe a MKID, I'm thinking VI because it gets the U87ai sound and vintage U87 sound), and some Oktava MK-220s. With the MK-220 only costing $250 on the high end, it won't have any resale value either. I might just have to get both and compare them.

I will say as far as clone mics go, that don't use authentic chambered CK12 style capsules, I really think 3U Audio is one of, if not the best, options. Their small diaphragm mics are nice too, but the mesh comes out pretty easily. I used the cardioid capsule maybe twice, and had to glue it back into place.
Old 29th December 2019
  #52
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Unfortunately Michael Joly (OktavaMod) is no longer producing modified microphones, but if you dig around the usual places you might luck into one at that price range. My "always on the stand" LDC is the MJE-modded 910. Those began their lives as a crummy Guitar Center MXL 910 before being rebuilt by Michael into one of the best microphones I've heard at any price - and I say this as someone who has many very, very good LDC's. There is a listing on reverb for a pair if you could find someone to go in on it with you. Microphones are so subjective in their users' opinions - and the preamp and talent you pair it with are HUGE x-factors. But, having tracked on so many "big name gear porn" mics over the past two decades, I am very serious when I say the MJE 910 can truly piss in the tall weeds with much bigger dogs.

If you want to go new, I was really impressed with the Mojave Ma-50, of which I'm sure you could find one in like-new condition for under 500. The Warm Audio WA87 also deserves a look.
Old 29th December 2019
  #53
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Progger's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
To echo @ Ragan -- I finally caved and bought a Warbler MkID after exchanging several nice emails with Guosheng. It arrived while I was away for holiday family travel, but I flew back a couple days ago and had a remote session yesterday for which a buddy of mine in LA needed saxophone recorded on four tracks. I thought it would be a good time to try out the Warbler, and it absolutely blew me away. I was expecting it to be good but not THAT good, it really is comparable to mics many times its price. I only used it in one of its many settings (cardioid, no pad, low-end rolloff engaged, first "voicing" position) and it did exactly what I needed at the time, but I look forward to experimenting with others.

Incredible bang for buck, indeed. This mic will pay for itself several times over very swiftly. I appreciate all the other GS users' experience and input that led me to 3U! Guosheng is doing very good things for the professional music community.

There certainly seem to be many options for high quality affordable mics these days. I do want to try out those Vanguard mics, for starters, as well as Barbaric, and I'll probably build a Mic-Parts kit for fun sometime this year. I have no doubt that I'd love having an Advanced Audio 49 or 67, too. I've been an Audio-Technica fan for years and still am, they've been my workhorses and the perennial price-to-quality champions for a long time, but they have some competition now! Good for us.
Old 29th December 2019 | Show parent
  #54
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turtlejon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks again! You have all been super helpful, I’m done overthinking this, ordering a warbler mkiv!!!
Now, what is the best shock Mount for it?
I’m sure any of the cheap generic ones will work, but is there anything that will be better?

Last edited by turtlejon; 29th December 2019 at 10:05 PM..
Old 29th December 2019
  #55
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64gtoboy's Avatar
For those looking to find out about mics of various prices there is a new web site. Here is a video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb-yXHPtdPU

The site is :https://www.audiotestkitchen.com/
Old 29th December 2019 | Show parent
  #56
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Ragan's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlejon ➡️
Thanks again! You have all been super helpful, I’m done overthinking this, ordering a warbler mkiv!!!
Now, what is the best shock Mount for it?
I’m sure any of the cheap generic ones will work, but is there anything that will be better?
Nice!

I’ve always just used the mic clips with my 3U stuff but I know Guosheng has shockmounts and if you didn’t want his he can at least tell you which others would work. Be sure to email him directly as you’ll get the best deal that way.
Old 30th December 2019 | Show parent
  #57
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Probably a bit late but the CM67SE is a great mic !!
https://advancedaudio.ca/products/cm67se
Old 31st December 2019 | Show parent
  #58
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Progger's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I'm so damn tickled by my new Warbler that now I'm daydreaming about buying a GZ67 and an AA CM67se to test them both! I have a feeling I'd really like both of them. Dave and Guosheng have definitely been pleasant to email with, for certain, and they both know their stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Tammer ➡️
Probably a bit late but the CM67SE is a great mic !!
https://advancedaudio.ca/products/cm67se
Old 31st December 2019
  #59
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Mojave M201fet is a good option too.
Both Mojave and AA are slightly out of your price range though.
On the cheaper side the old Rode K2 isn't a bad choice.
A 414 b-uls in good condition is another great versatile mic and it's resale value is actually going up.
Old 2nd January 2020 | Show parent
  #60
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BIG BUDDHA's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman ➡️
Whatever I know about mics, I would expect that Steven Slate knows more.
Ha Ha......

i would actually doubt that Bushman. you have been around....

those old 70s and 80s studios were jam packed with the Good Stuff.

how does the modeling mic sound to you, if you just listen back flat?

Buddha
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