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full range for sound reinforcement/small venue mains
Old 8th March 2014
  #1
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
full range for sound reinforcement/small venue mains

Recently joined a metal band that plays a grab bag of gigs, live sound situation ranging from nonexistent to a fully outfitted stage. We're looking to streamline things by swapping the amps & cabs for a mixer and full range speakers, using them as mains at the small gigs (~150 heads) and stage reinforcement at the better equipped venues.
requirements are:
<=50lbs
< $1500/pair used
responsive enough for fast double bass drums
ideally avoiding a subwoofer, but could make it work

so far i'm looking at a pair of jbl prx615's or ev zlx15p's but i'm hoping for suggestions from people who do the live side of audio more frequently than i.
Old 8th March 2014
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
If you can find a pair of DSR115's, that would be best IMHO. Shy of that the DXR15's also provide pretty decent thump for the money.

The DSR115's will go farther than the DXR's and even farther than the JBL PRX615's (especially down low).
Old 8th March 2014
  #3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by grantlack ➑️
We're looking to streamline things by swapping the amps & cabs for a mixer and full range speakers, using them as mains at the small gigs (~150 heads) and stage reinforcement at the better equipped venues.
Are you talking about eliminating the instrument amps and cabs on stage? You can certainly all go direct in to a mixer, although you'll probably need and/or want to use DI boxes or other interfaces like amp/cab emulators for some sources. If you did that then you'll probably always want some reinforcement on stage in addition to the mains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grantlack ➑️
requirements are:
<=50lbs
< $1500/pair used
responsive enough for fast double bass drums
ideally avoiding a subwoofer, but could make it work

so far i'm looking at a pair of jbl prx615's or ev zlx15p's but i'm hoping for suggestions from people who do the live side of audio more frequently than i.
If you are a metal band and plan on running drums and bass through the house system then you'll probably want subwoofers. However, that could also allow you to then go with smaller, lighter 12" woofer mains.

One thing I noted is that the OP seems to be looking for mains that can be used as monitors, thus the PRX615M and ZLX-15P with appropriately slanted sides and feet. The DSR115 is a typical trap box shape and you'd have to go with the DSR112 to get an actual monitor format box in the Yamaha DSR series, however the DXR115 is shaped to be used as a monitor.
Old 8th March 2014 | Show parent
  #4
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by museAV ➑️
Are you talking about eliminating the instrument amps and cabs on stage? You can certainly all go direct in to a mixer, although you'll probably need and/or want to use DI boxes or other interfaces like amp/cab emulators for some sources. If you did that then you'll probably always want some reinforcement on stage in addition to the mains.
Yep, axe FX or sansamp will be the likely culprits. My thoughts exactly on the stage reinforcement.

Quote:
you are a metal band and plan on running drums and bass through the house system then you'll probably want subwoofers. However, that could also allow you to then go with smaller, lighter 12" woofer mains.

One thing I noted is that the OP seems to be looking for mains that can be used as monitors, thus the PRX615M and ZLX-15P with appropriately slanted sides and feet. The DSR115 is a typical trap box shape and you'd have to go with the DSR112 to get an actual monitor format box in the Yamaha DSR series, however the DXR115 is shaped to be used as a monitor.
We'll be running wired IEMs from the mixer, so wedge shape isn't of much concern. I'd indeed plan on some smaller drivers if the sub ends up a necessity, but I'd really rather not.
Old 8th March 2014
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
To be fair, I personally would never play a gig without subs ..... especially not metal. My band only does a few "heavy" songs like "Enter Sandman", but the bottom punch is the highlight of such songs. After Sandman is done, you feel like your chest has taken a beating if you are in the power alley of our subs. Metal heads love it.

While a good 15" full range does a decent job of providing a budget PA for a wide range of music, 12's over subs will always sound much much better. This is especially true for metal.

I occasionally do sound as a favor for someone else's band. When I do larger venues (still talking ~300 people capacity) or heavy music, I use a single DSR112 over a pair of PRX618S-XLF's per side. Anything outside and I am off to rent a FOH.

The DSR112 by itself has a pretty anemic bottom end. It has outstanding punch >90Hz, and you would be surprised how much of the material lands there, but for the low end, subs are a must.

All of these options are WAY more expensive than $1500.00.
Old 8th March 2014
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
If you play on multi-band metal shows with no amps you're going to look pretty lame. IME most metal bands don't play full shows alone. Seems an imperative presentation to have amps. This is why so many metalheads are trading their stacks for banjos and mandolins, joining the Muddy Roots crowd. Anti-pop country is the new badass.
Old 11th March 2014
  #7
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
JBL STX 835 is a great all around tower to use with out subs - also can handle high spl's - out of budget though - try to raise your budget if you can
Old 11th March 2014
  #8
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mixer mixer's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Fast double kick and no subs? Seems far-fetched, it's doable but the results won't be there.
Old 12th March 2014
  #9
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
My main theory behind getting away without a sub is this: anywhere we'd be using them for mains, it's a pretty intimate setting where we (or any of the other bands) wouldn't normally have a mic on the cabs or drums at all anyhow. More of a "hey, the bar bought a $150 PA for vocals and the 'sound guy' is just getting paid to drink" sort of gig. Places we'd use them for reinforcement, low freq material will be going through the existing mains. I'm more worried about the 15's physically keeping up w/ the kick without flubbing out, as opposed to actual SPL. I could even see moving to one of the lighter dual 15's like the prx625's, but bringing 125lb dual 15's or light tops and couple 100lb subwoofers are going to kill the utilitarian aspect of it. Genuinely appreciating all the input thusfar. Even after demo-ing stuff, it's tough to know what will and won't do the job once there's a few dozen sacks of meat in front of it.
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by grantlack ➑️
My main theory behind getting away without a sub is this: anywhere we'd be using them for mains, it's a pretty intimate setting where we (or any of the other bands) wouldn't normally have a mic on the cabs or drums at all anyhow. More of a "hey, the bar bought a $150 PA for vocals and the 'sound guy' is just getting paid to drink" sort of gig. Places we'd use them for reinforcement, low freq material will be going through the existing mains. I'm more worried about the 15's physically keeping up w/ the kick without flubbing out, as opposed to actual SPL.
If that is the situation then do you need to reinforce the kick? Same with the bass, guitars, etc. if they have amps on stage. I'm not clear on why you would go to all the trouble of mic'ing everything and dealing with a larger PA if it was not for the SPL and maybe you really just need the PA to handle vocal reinforcement.
Old 12th March 2014
  #11
Lives for gear
 
dickiefunk's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I can comment on the DXR15's for full range use without subs.
I have used a pair of these on quite a few occasions and put kick, bass, guitars, keys and vocals through them. I've found they work surprisingly well considering their, size, weight and price!! I've compared them to Turbosound Milan Mi5's and JBL EON 515XT's and the JBL's can't compete at all with the DXR's and the Milan's lacked a little clarity and the sound distorted at high volumes but the DXR's coped no problems!

The DXR15's cope with full range sound at higher volumes better than any other 2way design I've heard so far. I would imagine the DSR15's would be even better but I haven't heard these.

I've heard good experiences with the RCF 725amkII aswell.
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by museAV ➑️
If that is the situation then do you need to reinforce the kick? Same with the bass, guitars, etc. if they have amps on stage. I'm not clear on why you would go to all the trouble of mic'ing everything and dealing with a larger PA if it was not for the SPL and maybe you really just need the PA to handle vocal reinforcement.
I was just using that as an example to give a better idea of the environment, sorry to confuse. We want to ditch the cabs and fold everything into the full ranges, so where normally you'd run the vocals and triggers through the PA we'd just route it all there. For bigger shows, we'd push line outs to FOH via our mixer.
The kicks are sample reinforced via the triggers to augment the overall sound, really adding more click than thump. In a perfect world, the cabs go away and the instruments run through the full ranges along with the kick samples and vocals. We're trying to consolidate and stay portable. One modeling amp/mixer rack and a pair of full ranges is way less of a pain in the ass than loading 3 cabs, 3 heads, and sometimes needing a PA anyways. We'll already be doing the mixer for IEM duty, so this seemed like a pretty natural progression.
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