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PA Setup for Acoustic Fiddle Tune Duo
Old 22nd January 2013
  #1
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🎧 5 years
PA Setup for Acoustic Fiddle Tune Duo

My band, Velocipede, plays traditional fiddle music from around the world. We are a duo that consists of fiddle (my bandmate), and acoustic tenor guitar and mandolin (me).

We are looking into getting a PA system to play contra dances and small concerts. We don't need anything fancy, but also want something that will give us a little more power and expandability than we have need right now if we were to play with other musicians or to play larger venues. We also may use the setup to do sounds gigs for other contra dance bands like ours.

Right now, here's what I have found looks to be a decent set up for our needs. We are looking for a fairly compact, portable, easy to set up and take down, simple system that can come on tour with us in a small vehicle.

Our budget is around $3500 total.

Mixer - $1000

Mackie Onyx 1620i

Mackie Onyx 1620i | Sweetwater.com

I like the look of the 1620i because it would also fit the bill for some recording projects.

Mics - 3-4 57s, 1-2 58s - $100 each


Speakers - x2 - $600 each

JBL EON 515xt


JBL EON515XT | Sweetwater.com

Monitor - x2 - $250

JBL JRX112M


JBL JRX112M | Sweetwater.com

Plus a mess of cables, mic/speaker stands, speaker bags. Anything i've forgotten?

Being a folk band, we aren't in the market for a lot of bells and whistles, won't be doing much (if anything) with aux sends and effects, don't need woofers, etc.

We each mic our instruments with Audio Technica clip on mics and aren't interested in adding effects or anything like that to our sound. I've gotten about as high tech as I am interested by getting a ToneBone PZ PRE pedal so I can switch easily between mando and guitar.

In short, how does this look for a setup? Am I missing any basic ingredients? Does anyone have any recommendations on alternative gear that keeps everything within our budget?

I'm relatively new to all of this, and really only know enough to get by running our own sound, so try to keep things simple so my brain can keep up.

Thanks so much for your help and expertise,
Baron
Old 22nd January 2013
  #2
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🎧 10 years
Given the style of music that you will be playing, I would go for a loudspeaker with a smaller drive unit than the 15". It might get louder and go lower, but a 15" compromises the mid range too much in my opinion. For small gigs an 8" would be sufficient but probably a 10" would be the best choice.

If you need more bass a dedicated bass cabinet and two smaller speakers would be better than 15" speakers doing bass and mid.
Old 22nd January 2013
  #3
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Your choice of active mains speakers is fine, but the monitors you are suggesting are passive which means you would also need a power amp and most likely a graphic equalizer for the monitors.

I would suggest active monitors. If you are thinking JBL JRX quality, I would suggest you look into Behringer active monitors. Fairly inexpensive.

Also, Electro Voice Live X, Yamaha and QSC active speakers all get better reviews than the JBL Eon series. A couple of active 12" mains would indeed be a good choice for acoustic music, although I frequently use 15" speakers for acoustic bands playing larger venues or outdoor gigs like parties, weddings, etc.

Just my .02
Old 22nd January 2013
  #4
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🎧 5 years
Thanks for the input Steve and Mark,

Looks like we may have found a used 1620i with rack ears and a rack case for 800ish.

Because we play for dances that can have anywhere from 100 to 200 people moving around, and will probably be doing some outdoor gigs, I want to have the power to get the music across. I do like the idea of not hauling around a couple 15s though.

Looks like the QSC K12 and the JBL PRX612Ms both get good reviews. Thoughts?

Anyone had experience with the RCF ART 312a? People seem to like these as well. They are less expensive, which is attractive.

maybe the 10s? this seems like a good deal:
RCF ART310A 10" Active Reference Speaker ART 310A B&H Photo


Also, I want the option to hook up larger bands through this system, maybe an upright bass, some simple percussion, other fiddlers, guitars, etc, as I am hoping to be doing sound work for other contra dance bands. I don't need more than 8 mic pres, but in terms of speakers, should I shy away from 10s and go for 12s to not overload them if i start throwing 4 people through them, maybe with a bass, instead on 2? 10s are attractive for their smaller size and greater portability. I just don't want to find myself doing sound for a 200 person dance and not have the oomph to get a 4 person band to fill the room.

In terms of monitors, would some small cheap 8s be sufficient? We don't need a whole lot in terms of reinforcement, and even go without monitors all together with only slight inconvenience. It doesn't need to sound amazing on stage, just a little reinforcement.

would 2 of these do the trick?
Behringer Eurolive B208D | Sweetwater.com

Thanks again, this is all super helpful to get me thinking about all this.
Baron
Old 22nd January 2013
  #5
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🎧 10 years
I can vouch for the very high quality of the RCF 310a. I use a pair for my own acoustic and semi acoustic bands and I couldn't be happier. They have a less flexible input section than the QSC K's and the JBL PRX speakers, but to my ears they are roughly equivalent in quality and close to half the price. I also have a 312a that is equally good, although bigger and heavier and not that much different in sound from the 310a. The 310a also works exceptionally well as a monitor, both in floor wedge position and as a back fill.

Also, the advice I got for the occasional bigger gig where a little extra oomph was needed was to either buy or rent a small powered sub with an internal crossover to use with my RCF's. The fact that the sub could take on the lower frequencies aapparently allows the tops to get louder than usual. I have yet to try this, but it makes sense to me. Also, some powered speakers out there have a reputation for handling more bottom end than others. One that comes up frequently in this regard is the Yorkville NX55p. It's been recommended to me as an option for acoustic shows that need more oomph, but where a sub is unavailable. So I just pass that along. I usually just have my upright bassist play through a stage bass amp, and that works very well for most of the gigs we play on a regular basis.

Louis
Old 22nd January 2013
  #6
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I think the QSC, JBL or ART speakers would be fine. If you are planning on eventually running bass, etc. through the PA then I would go with 15's if possible and 12's at the very least.

I have run a four piece bluegrass band with fiddle, banjo, dobro, guitar, mandolin and upright bass through QSC K12's with good results, although for outdoor gigs we had to use two per side.

The Behringer monitors would be fine.

Adding a sub is a good idea, except for larger gigs and outdoor stuff, one sub isn't enough, plus I am not a fan of subs for acoustic music and never use them when I run sound for bluegrass festivals, which is my main business.

If you need the ability to record, then the Mackie is about the best deal around. However, Soundcraft and Allen & Heath make good mixers that can be found used for less than the $800 Mackie, plus, in my experience they both sound better.

So..I recommend the QSC K12's or JBL PRX or ART 12's with a couple of Behringer active ten or twelve inch monitors. For larger gigs or outdoor gigs, a 15" speaker with a 2" horn gets you a lot of coverage and fairly good bass response. I haven't noticed a loss of midrange using 15 inch speakers for acoustic music and judicious use of EQ would solve the problem in any case.
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #7
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GZsound ➡️
....

Adding a sub is a good idea, except for larger gigs and outdoor stuff, one sub isn't enough, plus I am not a fan of subs for acoustic music and never use them when I run sound for bluegrass festivals, which is my main business.

....
Using a sub (or bass speaker if you like) gives you a 3 way system which means less compromise in the choice of drive unit for each frequency range. I'm not disputing your dislike of subs, but why?
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_B ➡️
Using a sub (or bass speaker if you like) gives you a 3 way system which means less compromise in the choice of drive unit for each frequency range. I'm not disputing your dislike of subs, but why?
As you said, having a sub gives a drive unit for each frequency range.

An acoustic bass "lives" in the 50 to 400 hz range. When you cross the subs at 100 hz you are getting the low fundamental frequency in the subs and the rest of the bass in the tops.

Typically subs don't project nearly as well as the tops so unless you have lots of sub with lots of projection, you lose the low bass after about fifty feet or so which is important in outdoor gigs where up to three hundred feet of projection is typical. No bottom end at that distance and really loud bass up close to the stage. It makes the bass very hard to control over distance.

I typically have the sound guys turn off the subs when the band I engineer for is playing a festival with a typical rock and roll PA system. Cranking the subs can also cause havoc with an acoustic bass feeding back if a "stuff" mic or piezo pickup is used.

I have had good experiences with subs and acoustic bands, but I have had many...many more bad experiences with them. Thus, I do just fine without any subs.
Old 23rd January 2013
  #9
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🎧 10 years
The thread starter was looking at JBL EONs. The alternatives suggested were QSC and RCF. This in not typically gear you would use at a festival to cover out to 300ft.

I can’t comment on the PA systems that you get to use, but I find it strange that you would opt to deny any of the audience the chance to hear the bottom octave of the bass because it is hard to control over distance. I’ve never really had feedback problems with upright bass so I can’t offer any suggestions except that something must be wrong.

I don’t see how a 15” drive unit in what is the main speaker would project the lower frequencies any better than a 15” drive unit in a separate cabinet. Even if it didn’t, for me the focus of acoustic music is in the midrange and 15” drive units compromise the midrange for the sake of the convenience of a single cabinet.
Old 23rd January 2013
  #10
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Look at yamaha's active speakers. They bought Nexo (super high end) and got some amazing tech trickling down into their lines now. I own the 8’s and the 12" sub. Ridiculously powerful... Like wow powerful. Shot them out against the qsc's and Mackie's... Not even close. The qsc's were too bright, the yamaha's have a dynamic eq you can switch in to maintain their smooth balance at different volume levels. Works like a champ. I can set up and go with about 1/3 the time of my old setup. Love it.
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_B ➡️
The thread starter was looking at JBL EONs. The alternatives suggested were QSC and RCF. This in not typically gear you would use at a festival to cover out to 300ft.

I can’t comment on the PA systems that you get to use, but I find it strange that you would opt to deny any of the audience the chance to hear the bottom octave of the bass because it is hard to control over distance. I’ve never really had feedback problems with upright bass so I can’t offer any suggestions except that something must be wrong.

I don’t see how a 15” drive unit in what is the main speaker would project the lower frequencies any better than a 15” drive unit in a separate cabinet. Even if it didn’t, for me the focus of acoustic music is in the midrange and 15” drive units compromise the midrange for the sake of the convenience of a single cabinet.
Thanks Steve, I was commenting on the suggestion that a "small powered sub" would be the way to go. For outdoor or larger venues a small powered sub would not cut it, in my opinion.

And you are correct in that the QSC or ART etc. systems would not be the best choice for outdoor gigs, although I have been at some smaller acoustic festivals where several ART powered 12's were used and it sounded great.

I think it takes more power and larger speakers to move the low end any distance. Since as you said, acoustic music is more mid range reliant, a fifteen seems to project low mids and mids better than a small sub. As I said, multiple subs with lots of power do project over distance, but for my taste there is too much bass for acoustic music.

I am not trying to deny the audience the joy of bass. My basic problem with subs is that the audience close to the stage gets too much bass and the audience farther away doesn't get enough when subs are used unless there are multiple subs and they are loud.

Over the last fifteen years I have been doing pretty much exclusively acoustic events and used just about every kind of PA you can imagine, from half million dollar systems to a powered mixer with a couple 12 inch Yamaha speakers on sticks. Big rock and roll systems and systems designed more for acoustic music.

My wife plays upright bass in an acoustic band that does around 48 gigs a year and so I have a fairly good idea of what problems have occured and why. I run sound at seven outdoor bluegrass festivals and at least ten indoor bluegrass events every year for the last 20 years. Subs have caused more problems than just about any other single issue.

Again, this is only my two cents and feel free to disagree.
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badhorsie777 ➡️
Look at yamaha's active speakers. They bought Nexo (super high end) and got some amazing tech trickling down into their lines now. I own the 8’s and the 12" sub. Ridiculously powerful... Like wow powerful. Shot them out against the qsc's and Mackie's... Not even close. The qsc's were too bright, the yamaha's have a dynamic eq you can switch in to maintain their smooth balance at different volume levels. Works like a champ. I can set up and go with about 1/3 the time of my old setup. Love it.
I'm glad you posted this. I have been looking at the Yamaha powered speakers myself.. The QSC speakers are certainly bright..
Old 23rd January 2013
  #13
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GZsound
I think it takes more power and larger speakers to move the low end any distance. Since as you said, acoustic music is more mid range reliant, a fifteen seems to project low mids and mids better than a small sub. As I said, multiple subs with lots of power do project over distance, but for my taste there is too much bass for acoustic music.
Larger drive units will appear to project the sound further. They are more directional.
A 15" in the main cabinet will have a relatively similar directivity pattern to a 15" in a sub.
If it is crossed over at around 100Hz the mids shouldn't be coming through the sub. The mids will be coming through whatever is being used above the subs.

Once the frequency gets to a point where the wavelength is equal to the circumference of a piston (diaphragm) the radiated power falls off at a rate of 6dB per octave. The on axis response will remain flat considerably higher than this frequency because most of the power is directed forwards. The frequency where this fall off begins is sometimes referred to as the normalised frequency. For a 15” loudspeaker it is just below 300Hz. Even for an 8” loudspeaker it is below 600Hz. If you set these two loudspeakers up next to one another, played a 1200Hz tone through them, set the on axis level the same, then the smaller speaker would be putting out more power.

In my opinion designing loudspeakers (or complete PA systems) with an even power response produces better results. Other might disagree, which is OK; even if they are wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by GZsound
My wife plays upright bass in an acoustic band that does around 48 gigs a year and so I have a fairly good idea of what problems have occured and why. I run sound at seven outdoor bluegrass festivals and at least ten indoor bluegrass events every year for the last 20 years. Subs have caused more problems than just about any other single issue.
You say that you run sound these festivals, Is this in an administrative capacity, or do you actually provide and set up the systems? What PA systems do you specify/provide? The reason I ask is that some members here are do gigs in their back yard and others are out touring with the likes of U2 and Madonna. Without clarification we could be discussing at cross purposes. What is applicable for a large event with big line arrays and full technical support is unlikely to be applicable for a couple of mates who have cobbled together a system with what bits they own or could borrow. Poor results because of bad implementation of a concept doesn't necessarily mean the concept is flawed.

When I refer to subs, it is what we use to call bass bins. I’d no more turn off the bass because of problems with one or two instruments than I would the compression drivers because they caused feedback. They produce the lower frequencies; turn them off and all the bass goes. Some on smaller systems some people seem to run the main speakers full range and the subs add additional low end.

Unfortunately buying a one size fits all PA is not ideal. The thread starter and those in his position should focus on the type of gig they do most. Buying a system that compromises your sound at every gig seems crazy just so that it is less compromised for 10% of your gigs.

Re: Yamahas. I've not heard them myself but everything I've heard from people who have has been favourable.

Last edited by Steve_B; 23rd January 2013 at 01:07 PM.. Reason: spelling
Old 23rd January 2013
  #14
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🎧 5 years
I'm curious about the use of SM57s for contra music. I will be running the PA for a friend's wedding. The band will be playing contra music (two fiddles, two acoustic guitars, one accordion) and everything will need to be mic'd. I've only run sound for rock format bands. The PA itself will suffice, but, like the original poster, my mic selection is limited to four SM57s and four SM58s and I'm curious if these will be sufficient. I can easily rent whatever mics I need for the wedding. If anyone has any thoughts, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks for your time.
Old 23rd January 2013
  #15
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mandobaron ➡️
My band, Velocipede, plays traditional fiddle music from around the world. We are a duo that consists of fiddle (my bandmate), and acoustic tenor guitar and mandolin (me).

We are looking into getting a PA system to play contra dances and small concerts. We don't need anything fancy, but also want something that will give us a little more power and expandability than we have need right now if we were to play with other musicians or to play larger venues. We also may use the setup to do sounds gigs for other contra dance bands like ours.

Right now, here's what I have found looks to be a decent set up for our needs. We are looking for a fairly compact, portable, easy to set up and take down, simple system that can come on tour with us in a small vehicle.
Baron
I set up sound for my wife's band where she plays fiddle with the others on mandolin, guitar and vocals. In most venues they just use a single condenser and gather around it bluegrass style, this keeps everything as simple as possible and works for the singer "who has know idea how to work a mic".
For noisy gigs they plug in but that is few and far between.

With that type of music a pair of RCF art310's will provide enough low end without subs and can cover quite a few people. (I do have eight 15" subs that they have never needed btw.)

I can recommend the RCF's but the EV ELX112p or Yamaha DXR10 are getting good reviews also. I would get matching monitor/s as acoustic instruments will be more prone to feeding back with cheap/peaky monitors and you will have a backup should one have something go haywire with it.
Old 24th January 2013
  #16
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🎧 10 years
Speakers - go powered - less to carry. Avoid the PRX - the angle as a monitor doesn't work for many. QSC either the K12's or KW122s. Bring a CD or an ipod of your music to wherever you audition the speakers so you can see how they sound. I prefer my QSC HPR122i's as they're relatively flat, sound good on mains and provide excellent gain before feedback as a monitor.

On 15's - with today's efficient 12's and the type of music you're playing, there's no reason to have 15" speakers. 12's today go low enough for us and we're pumping keyboards through them.

On fiddle a SM58 is considered a standard, but if you have the A-T then that's fine.

I'd suggest Audiopile.net for your cabling needs - Mark and Liz are great people and their product is great for the price. For siamese power/XLR cables Pro Co has a great cable - I have 2 for my mains and then use a snake to connect to the floor monitors.

A 8 channel snake can save a lot of cable pulling - the box can be by you both and have inputs for 2 mics, 2 fiddles, 2 guitars, and with 2 turnarounds, 2 monitor sends. A lot less long cables to wind up every night...
Old 24th January 2013 | Show parent
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_B ➡️
You say that you run sound these festivals, Is this in an administrative capacity, or do you actually provide and set up the systems? What PA systems do you specify/provide? The reason I ask is that some members here are do gigs in their back yard and others are out touring with the likes of U2 and Madonna. Without clarification we could be discussing at cross purposes. What is applicable for a large event with big line arrays and full technical support is unlikely to be applicable for a couple of mates who have cobbled together a system with what bits they own or could borrow. Poor results because of bad implementation of a concept doesn't necessarily mean the concept is flawed.
Steve, I actually do multiple duty. I tour with my wife's bluegrass band as their engineer and normally am on the mixer when they are on stage.

I also have been running sound from stage for my rock and roll bands for the last 40 years and still do that for a 60's band I am now playing in.

I run sound once a month for a bluegrass concert series held in a venue where I use their equipment and only provide mics, cords and stands. I run sound at other various venues with existing systems, from 32 channel Soundcraft/Allen & Heath mixers to Presonus 24-4 mixers and speakers from EAW to QSC.

Seven times a year I run sound at two or three day bluegrass festivals where I provide all the equipment and lights. These festivals usually have under a thousand people in the audience. Some of them I have been doing for fifteen years and others for at least five. I always get repeat business.

My bluegrass festival system is fairly simple. I use a pair of three way double 15's for mains and four or six monitors. Normally less than 16 channels so I use my Allen & Heath Mixwizard. I have 7,000 watts of power available with QSC and Peavey IPR amps. I own 32 microphones since I also run a recording studio with a Soundcraft digital console.

I own a pair of JBL 2225 subs that I never use. I also have four Peavey SP5's and four Yamaha SV115's, plus my three way Wharfedale boxes and four Yamaha S12V speakers. I have two Yamaha powered mixers that I use with my wife's band for small venues when we need to provide a PA for a wedding, etc.

I am a small sound contractor and don't bid jobs that are beyond my capacity but I am busy and since everything has been paid for for years, I actually make money. I subscribe to the KISS method of running sound.. Keep It Simple Stupid. That and Keep it Small..Keep it All.

I work the festivals alone without a stage crew and turn my bands in ten minutes. It's a system.

Most of the new powered systems came out long after I had purchased and paid for my gear so I haven't had a need (or the urge to spend the money) to upgrade..yet.

I am most certainly not a "big".. Just a veteran of too many years of getting by with what I have.
Old 24th January 2013
  #18
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🎧 10 years
If you are using twin 15” speakers for your main system then I agree there is little need for additional low frequency speakers.

In my opinion 15” cones are seriously compromised when used to reproduce upper mids. The dual 15” is a design that stems from bands wanting a couple of cabinets they could throw up on stage which would get loud. They may be Ok if you are focusing on your wife’s bass, but for vocals an 8” or 10” with a dedicated bass/sub speaker will give a far more natural sound.

If you are happy with the 15"/horn design that is fine, but it is 2013 there are a lot better options out there.
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_B ➡️
If you are using twin 15” speakers for your main system then I agree there is little need for additional low frequency speakers.

In my opinion 15” cones are seriously compromised when used to reproduce upper mids. The dual 15” is a design that stems from bands wanting a couple of cabinets they could throw up on stage which would get loud. They may be Ok if you are focusing on your wife’s bass, but for vocals an 8” or 10” with a dedicated bass/sub speaker will give a far more natural sound.

If you are happy with the 15"/horn design that is fine, but it is 2013 there are a lot better options out there.
Interesting you mention that. The last couple of festivals my wife has played for had fairly large sound systems with two double 15" JBL SRX boxes on top of four SRX 18's. That seems fairly common around here even though it's 2013.
Old 26th January 2013
  #20
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🎧 10 years
The fact that dual 15” speakers are used at festivals your wife plays at doesn’t convince me that they are the best option. The fact that JBL makes dual 15s doesn’t mean they are good either. If there is a market for them manufacturers will make them. As I said, if you like them that is great. I’m not going to argue.

The problem with 15” cones is their size. Great for low frequencies but at higher frequencies say around about 400Hz the power output starts to fall off and the dispersion pattern narrows.

All cones have break up modes. This is where the cone stops operating as a single piston and different parts of the cone are moving in different directions. Material, size and geometry all have an effect on where these breakup modes occur. With a 15” cone crossing over into a compression driver the cone is likely to be operating at frequencies where these are becoming significant. With heavy paper cones any resonances will be well damped, but large heavy cones are not good at high frequencies.

With a basic passive crossover it is likely that resonances outside the operating pass band will be audible.

If I remember correctly, the dual 15” SRX speakers have a 90 degree horn. This is not ideal for arraying and stacking two side by side, even with a slight splay angle, will result in comb filtering problems. I wouldn’t consider the set up you described as ideal.

If I had to design a dual 15” speaker I would be looking to cross over into the compression driver at about 600Hz using something like the BMS 4590.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_B ➡️
The fact that dual 15” speakers are used at festivals your wife plays at doesn’t convince me that they are the best option. The fact that JBL makes dual 15s doesn’t mean they are good either. If there is a market for them manufacturers will make them. As I said, if you like them that is great. I’m not going to argue.

The problem with 15” cones is their size. Great for low frequencies but at higher frequencies say around about 400Hz the power output starts to fall off and the dispersion pattern narrows.

All cones have break up modes. This is where the cone stops operating as a single piston and different parts of the cone are moving in different directions. Material, size and geometry all have an effect on where these breakup modes occur. With a 15” cone crossing over into a compression driver the cone is likely to be operating at frequencies where these are becoming significant. With heavy paper cones any resonances will be well damped, but large heavy cones are not good at high frequencies.

With a basic passive crossover it is likely that resonances outside the operating pass band will be audible.

If I remember correctly, the dual 15” SRX speakers have a 90 degree horn. This is not ideal for arraying and stacking two side by side, even with a slight splay angle, will result in comb filtering problems. I wouldn’t consider the set up you described as ideal.

If I had to design a dual 15” speaker I would be looking to cross over into the compression driver at about 600Hz using something like the BMS 4590.
I think the problem is that you are a LOT smarter than I am. I have never used much technical information of any kind when deciding what gear to use. I just listen.

I have had half million dollar sound systems sound like crap and a powered mixer with a couple of old Peavey "lips" sound great. Like I said, I just listen. If I let technical data drive my gear purchases, I would be buried in debt.

You know why something shouldn't work and can prove it technically. I have no idea why it does work and can't prove why... So I trundle on in my delusion staying busy and making money.

I appreciate your information. Thanks....
Old 28th January 2013
  #22
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🎧 10 years
I don’t follow you logic. Why would making purchasing decisions based on sound technical information bury you in debt? Or conversely why should decisions based on listening be profitable? You seem to be implying that by knowing how things work and having an understanding of the theory is not profitable. There is no correlation between them.

The fact that you have heard half million dollar sound systems sound crap again tells us nothing. Explain why it was the PA system that made it crap and not something else. I’ve heard lots of crap sounding gigs but it had nothing to do with the PA.

That you are busy and making money is to be applauded and long may it continue, but I don’t see why you need mention it unless you feel it adds weight to your advice to use 15” drivers instead of the other alternatives suggested.

The advice I have given is based on theory, empirical data and listening. The list of number one selling artists I have worked or and the amount of money I have made neither adds or detracts from that advice.

I guess not being able to explain why things work, or not, in words is a disadvantage on an internet forum.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_B ➡️
I don’t follow you logic. Why would making purchasing decisions based on sound technical information bury you in debt? Or conversely why should decisions based on listening be profitable? You seem to be implying that by knowing how things work and having an understanding of the theory is not profitable. There is no correlation between them.

The fact that you have heard half million dollar sound systems sound crap again tells us nothing. Explain why it was the PA system that made it crap and not something else. I’ve heard lots of crap sounding gigs but it had nothing to do with the PA.

That you are busy and making money is to be applauded and long may it continue, but I don’t see why you need mention it unless you feel it adds weight to your advice to use 15” drivers instead of the other alternatives suggested.

The advice I have given is based on theory, empirical data and listening. The list of number one selling artists I have worked or and the amount of money I have made neither adds or detracts from that advice.

I guess not being able to explain why things work, or not, in words is a disadvantage on an internet forum.
Why would purchasing decisions based on technical information bury me in debt..?

Uh...in business, purchasing decisions are based on Return On Investment. If simply buying the best speaker system was the answer I sure wouldn't be buying any of the speakers we are discussing here. I would be spending five or six thousand dollars (at least) per box. So, why don't I? Return On Investment. I actually enjoy making money more than spending it.

I understand your math concerning fifteen inch speakers. I understand your feelings when it comes to double fifteen boxes.

But as you said, if there was no demand for them, the manufacturers would not market them. As far as I know, Yamaha, Peavey, JBL, Electro Voice, etc. all make and market double fifteen boxes. Somebody must be buying them.

And my point was that I have equipment that seems to work just fine for the type of jobs I am hired to do. Certainly using equipment that generates a profit has more weight than someone who puts on house concerts and parties? That was my only point.

Besides, you asked for some background information from me. I provided it.

I appreciate your help.
Old 29th January 2013
  #24
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GZsound
Why would purchasing decisions based on technical information bury me in debt..?
Because you stated in your previous post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GZsound
If I let technical data drive my gear purchases, I would be buried in debt.
Old 2nd February 2013
  #25
Gear Addict
 
BluegrassDan's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Make sure you invest in a 31-band eq to ring out the room. Otherwise, you'll only have feedback and nothing will sound good.
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