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What about to internal FXs and processing of low-budget Yamaha, Soundcraft, Mackies?
Old 28th September 2022
  #1
Here for the gear
What about to internal FXs and processing of low-budget Yamaha, Soundcraft, Mackies?

Hello. I’m trying too build a setup for live performing with some synths, drum machines and guitars. Im looking a mixer for both use in studio with Ableton and dawless at some projects. I choosed some mixers ; Yamaha MG10XU FX, Mackie ProFX10, Soundcraft 12FX.

Firstly I would to hear any opinion for audio processing results of those brands.I only heard Mackie monitors for a short time and it was really annoying experience for me. It felt too dynamic, punchy and not good in harmonics. I was wondering are macies are always have a little bit downgrade audio quality or not (like Behringer’s I think)? SC and Yamaha has good reputation on me but Mackie’s offer have some extra inserts which I don’t even know yet how to use. I’ll also purchase for external effects but didn’t dive into that topic yet. I should keep in mind how many inserts I need I don’t know yet I

And there is second question comes at this point for me. I didn’t heard or used internal fx processors with this kind of units. Are they really worth to invest? Or Should I totally focus out-of the-unit fxs at this price point? I’m a little bit obsessed with the quality of the fxs. In videos I heard some examples of Mackie and it felt like very generic effects. Also they don’t even have parameters which I think would be an excited future for some fxs. So are they still be useful for general applications?

I hope I ve spot my questions clearly. thank your for your opinions from now.
Old 28th September 2022
  #2
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
almost all internal efx in cheap analog desks are not entirely useless but make you want to use better outboard...
Old 29th September 2022
  #3
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Christof's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
You might also consider digital boards like the Behringer XR-series, the Flow 8 or the Soundcraft UI-series. Not much more expensive, but much better EQ/FX and even dynamics (if needed). Mostly no physical faders (use a tablet) - so you'd have to check if that suits your need.
Old 6th October 2022
  #4
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JayTee4303's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I have a Mackie ProFX that my Sweetwater rep begged me not to buy. I wish I had listened. It needed to fit in a precisely defined space, that few consoles fit.

It arrived with a mixbuss dead, but I didn't discover that until it was wired up and locked in. It has a tinny sound overall, which is just barely negated using the onboard EQ. The faders and trim pots need exercised every session, which results in large gain changes when they start working properly again.

Run away.

I have several of the Yamaha MG series. At least 4 10s and a 16. They are functional boards, they get the job done, but the FX aren't anything to write home about, and the EQ gain/cut controls are very sensitive. A tiny twist gets you a lot of EQ.

Every Soundcraft I've ever used has been a solid dependable console, but my experience is limited to the midsize and larger desks, 32, 48 and up, and all digital.

IMO... avoid the ProFX series, and the rest of the lower end desks will get it done, without impressing you. More than going for "quality sound" which won't happen at these spending levels, look at routing and features that fit your specific needs.

Outside your list... the Behringers I own all have noisy preamps if you push them. From 8 channels thru 16 on up to an X-32. Noisy when pushed. FX... meh. Like others, they don't suck, and they don't rock.

I have an A&H Mixwiz that just sounds rich when you push the faders up. Unfortunately, it's long in the tooth, and a bit suspect in function. I retired it from live gigs because the solder joints on the I/O ports can't get thru a gig without cutting out. I've been in there at keast 3 times, re welded every tab, but moving it around opens em up again. It has not messed up once since I retired it and parked it to control the live rig during testing and studio operation, but I won't get fooled again.

For me, consoles come in 3 groups. Flat junk (Alto and Pro FX)... mid grade, get it done, ho-hum... and the exquisite flavors available for four and five figures.

FX... again, it takes 4 figure investments to make me sit up and notice. Except for Eventide. An H9 is a pretty powerful little beast. Needs significant tweaking for day in-day out routine effects. But it does "lush, rich, and over the top" straight outta the box.

Last edited by JayTee4303; 6th October 2022 at 06:16 PM..
Old 7th October 2022 | Show parent
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayTee4303 ➡️
I have a Mackie ProFX that my Sweetwater rep begged me not to buy. I wish I had listened. It needed to fit in a precisely defined space, that few consoles fit.

It arrived with a mixbuss dead, but I didn't discover that until it was wired up and locked in. It has a tinny sound overall, which is just barely negated using the onboard EQ. The faders and trim pots need exercised every session, which results in large gain changes when they start working properly again.

Run away.

I have several of the Yamaha MG series. At least 4 10s and a 16. They are functional boards, they get the job done, but the FX aren't anything to write home about, and the EQ gain/cut controls are very sensitive. A tiny twist gets you a lot of EQ.

Every Soundcraft I've ever used has been a solid dependable console, but my experience is limited to the midsize and larger desks, 32, 48 and up, and all digital.

IMO... avoid the ProFX series, and the rest of the lower end desks will get it done, without impressing you. More than going for "quality sound" which won't happen at these spending levels, look at routing and features that fit your specific needs.

Outside your list... the Behringers I own all have noisy preamps if you push them. From 8 channels thru 16 on up to an X-32. Noisy when pushed. FX... meh. Like others, they don't suck, and they don't rock.

I have an A&H Mixwiz that just sounds rich when you push the faders up. Unfortunately, it's long in the tooth, and a bit suspect in function. I retired it from live gigs because the solder joints on the I/O ports can't get thru a gig without cutting out. I've been in there at keast 3 times, re welded every tab, but moving it around opens em up again. It has not messed up once since I retired it and parked it to control the live rig during testing and studio operation, but I won't get fooled again.

For me, consoles come in 3 groups. Flat junk (Alto and Pro FX)... mid grade, get it done, ho-hum... and the exquisite flavors available for four and five figures.

FX... again, it takes 4 figure investments to make me sit up and notice. Except for Eventide. An H9 is a pretty powerful little beast. Needs significant tweaking for day in-day out routine effects. But it does "lush, rich, and over the top" straight outta the box.
I'm mostly with you on this entire post, except the X32 noise thing.

The board is dead quiet IME. It is nearest to impossible to get any noise you can hear out of it without plugging something into it that creates noise.

I also owned a MixWiz for a long time. I agree. Rock solid board that is very quiet, but heavy as a tank, very very long in the tooth and really, totally outclassed by nearly every digital mixer that has been introduced in the last 10 years. Not a bad board to mix on, but very very limited compared to a modern digital mixer (even much less expensive ones).

The Behringer analog mixers are not only noisy, but also fragile and prone to breaking (more so than even the Mackie Pro FX). It has been my experience that the Yamaha MG mixers are pretty bad sounding by today's standards as well, but there are quite a few of them out there.

The FX on the X32 can be particularly well honed if you utilize the parametric bus eq on the FX return (something you can't do on less powerful digital mixers including the X-Air). I have found you can get a very good vocal verb on an X32. I know people that have both X32 and Eventide external efx who run sound companies for a living that have attested that a well setup X32 verb is indistinguishable in a live settings from an Eventide (which is quite a remarkable distinction). I am certain that for recording you would find the Eventide much better though..... but then again for recording it is much more likely that plug-ins will be used instead of a hardware verb.

Anyway, I still recommend a small digital mixer to any analog mixer out there for a great number of reasons.
Old 11th October 2022 | Show parent
  #6
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christof ➡️
You might also consider digital boards like the Behringer XR-series, the Flow 8 or the Soundcraft UI-series. Not much more expensive, but much better EQ/FX and even dynamics (if needed). Mostly no physical faders (use a tablet) - so you'd have to check if that suits your need.
Thank your for your comment. Its cleared for me things. I definitely purchase for a digital one. Flow 8 also looks very minimal and functional. I was also get a Crave from BH and looks reliable. Thank you again.
Old 11th October 2022 | Show parent
  #7
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayTee4303 ➡️
I have a Mackie ProFX that my Sweetwater rep begged me not to buy. I wish I had listened. It needed to fit in a precisely defined space, that few consoles fit.

It arrived with a mixbuss dead, but I didn't discover that until it was wired up and locked in. It has a tinny sound overall, which is just barely negated using the onboard EQ. The faders and trim pots need exercised every session, which results in large gain changes when they start working properly again.

Run away.

I have several of the Yamaha MG series. At least 4 10s and a 16. They are functional boards, they get the job done, but the FX aren't anything to write home about, and the EQ gain/cut controls are very sensitive. A tiny twist gets you a lot of EQ.

Every Soundcraft I've ever used has been a solid dependable console, but my experience is limited to the midsize and larger desks, 32, 48 and up, and all digital.

IMO... avoid the ProFX series, and the rest of the lower end desks will get it done, without impressing you. More than going for "quality sound" which won't happen at these spending levels, look at routing and features that fit your specific needs.

Outside your list... the Behringers I own all have noisy preamps if you push them. From 8 channels thru 16 on up to an X-32. Noisy when pushed. FX... meh. Like others, they don't suck, and they don't rock.

I have an A&H Mixwiz that just sounds rich when you push the faders up. Unfortunately, it's long in the tooth, and a bit suspect in function. I retired it from live gigs because the solder joints on the I/O ports can't get thru a gig without cutting out. I've been in there at keast 3 times, re welded every tab, but moving it around opens em up again. It has not messed up once since I retired it and parked it to control the live rig during testing and studio operation, but I won't get fooled again.

For me, consoles come in 3 groups. Flat junk (Alto and Pro FX)... mid grade, get it done, ho-hum... and the exquisite flavors available for four and five figures.

FX... again, it takes 4 figure investments to make me sit up and notice. Except for Eventide. An H9 is a pretty powerful little beast. Needs significant tweaking for day in-day out routine effects. But it does "lush, rich, and over the top" straight outta the box.
Great review thank you very very much. I guess I shifted the focus to FLOW-8 from Behringer. Have you ever experienced with it?
Old 11th October 2022 | Show parent
  #8
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneEng ➡️
I'm mostly with you on this entire post, except the X32 noise thing.

The board is dead quiet IME. It is nearest to impossible to get any noise you can hear out of it without plugging something into it that creates noise.

I also owned a MixWiz for a long time. I agree. Rock solid board that is very quiet, but heavy as a tank, very very long in the tooth and really, totally outclassed by nearly every digital mixer that has been introduced in the last 10 years. Not a bad board to mix on, but very very limited compared to a modern digital mixer (even much less expensive ones).

The Behringer analog mixers are not only noisy, but also fragile and prone to breaking (more so than even the Mackie Pro FX). It has been my experience that the Yamaha MG mixers are pretty bad sounding by today's standards as well, but there are quite a few of them out there.

The FX on the X32 can be particularly well honed if you utilize the parametric bus eq on the FX return (something you can't do on less powerful digital mixers including the X-Air). I have found you can get a very good vocal verb on an X32. I know people that have both X32 and Eventide external efx who run sound companies for a living that have attested that a well setup X32 verb is indistinguishable in a live settings from an Eventide (which is quite a remarkable distinction). I am certain that for recording you would find the Eventide much better though..... but then again for recording it is much more likely that plug-ins will be used instead of a hardware verb.

Anyway, I still recommend a small digital mixer to any analog mixer out there for a great number of reasons.
Thank you very much. I really appreciated with your point of view.
Old 12th October 2022 | Show parent
  #9
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneEng ➡️
The FX on the X32 can be particularly well honed if you utilize the parametric bus eq on the FX return (something you can't do on less powerful digital mixers including the X-Air).
A slightly misleading statement.

While you don't get the 6 pand PEQ that the X32 provides on the FX returns, the XR12/16/18 returns still have 4 band PEQ. A small loss, admittedly, but not one I'd lose sleep over.
Old 13th October 2022 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlecSp ➡️
A slightly misleading statement.

While you don't get the 6 pand PEQ that the X32 provides on the FX returns, the XR12/16/18 returns still have 4 band PEQ. A small loss, admittedly, but not one I'd lose sleep over.
I stand corrected. I agree, 6 vs 4 band eq is not an issue.

@ boybitten
Quote:
Great review thank you very very much. I guess I shifted the focus to FLOW-8 from Behringer. Have you ever experienced with it?
Give this link a listen. Use Headphones so you can get a better idea of how good this little mixer can sound. Also this guy works through setting up efx for both his vocals and his guitar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJPkIegBthM

This one is nice too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QshZUUJU0X0
Old 12 hours ago | Show parent
  #11
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneEng ➡️
I stand corrected. I agree, 6 vs 4 band eq is not an issue.

@ boybitten


Give this link a listen. Use Headphones so you can get a better idea of how good this little mixer can sound. Also this guy works through setting up efx for both his vocals and his guitar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJPkIegBthM

This one is nice too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QshZUUJU0X0
The Flow 8 packs loads of features in and is almost pocketable. But the mini USB power input is a drag and the mic amps only have 40dB of gain. And phantom power on only two of them.

https://youtu.be/l_gfnsJgzS0
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