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Behringer Wing
Old 21st October 2020
  #151
Gear Maniac
 
I used to buy behringer gear. Then I noticed I had a whole rack full of failed behringer gear and none of my other rack gear was failing. I would be a nervous wreck using one of these mixers for a paying audience.
Old 21st October 2020 | Show parent
  #152
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip Dixon ➡️
I used to buy behringer gear. Then I noticed I had a whole rack full of failed behringer gear and none of my other rack gear was failing. I would be a nervous wreck using one of these mixers for a paying audience.
Given the overall field experience with the Behringer X32 for the past 8 years, and the Midas M32 for the past 6.5 years; if the Behringer Wing equals these products in reliability, it will be more than satisfactory in that respect.
Old 21st October 2020
  #153
Gear Maniac
 
I guess the young people don't have such traumatic experiences to make them say never again with behringer. Even KIA has improved over the years. I still remember driving a KIA over rough mountain roads and feeling the whole chassis flex like tin foil. And behringer gear having the slogan Just Listen because none of the silk screened numbers were accurate and the only way to make it sound right was to ignore what was printed on the gear and literally Just Listen and adjust it until it sounds right - regardless of where that knob was pointing.
Old 23rd October 2020 | Show parent
  #154
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip Dixon ➡️
I guess the young people don't have such traumatic experiences to make them say never again with behringer. Even KIA has improved over the years. I still remember driving a KIA over rough mountain roads and feeling the whole chassis flex like tin foil. ...
Yes, your comment reflects some of the commentary of an article I wrote in April 2017. It mentions audio equipment and cars in the context. The fifth paragraph says:

Once a brand has been cheapened (e.g. Lincoln, Cadillac) the uphill climb back to customer trust and respect takes quite a long time. Once a brand has been associated with low cost (e.g. Volkswagen, Kia, Hyundai), the climb upmarket (Phaeton, K900, Equus, respectively) is a ladder with greased rungs, and not many make it. These marketing and human behavior lessons from the auto industry have applicability to the behavior of the audio industry, both in the consumer and professional arena."

https://www.tedlandstudio.com/copy-o...-bypass-part-2

Another aspect of this "compression" of upscale and downscale products is rather evident in the project I'm working on now:

I am repairing an Esoteric X-05 SACD/CD player (Esoteric is subsidiary of TEAC.) This player was released in 2009 with an MSRP of $5999USD. The DAC is a Cirrus Logic CS4398, which is the same DAC used in the Midas DL32 stage box... but obviously Midas uses several more of them.

The point is that Esoteric was reaching for the stars with this product, and they chose this essential part that is routinely used in reasonably-priced professional audio products. The A/D partner to the CS4398 is the CS5368, and happens to be the A/D converter for all of the Behringer X32 mixers.

Choosing audio products is becoming like choosing a restaurant in New York City: To have competitive quality among so many challengers, every restaurant at every price level has to raise their game just to stay in business.
Old 25th October 2020 | Show parent
  #155
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cAPSLOCK ➡️
I am gonna try not to write a novella this time. But I am starting to wonder if I am the only person on Earth that thinks Behringer has created an absolute MASTERPIECE with this console.

I can't believe that it has not taken the audio industry by absolute STORM.

EXCEPT... that it is so malleable that it is harder to use... and therefore a more niche gizmo than the X32 series for example. I sort of hear that reflected here in this thread.

But I definitely feel like it's a sleeper.

So I came back around to talk about the compressors. I own a UAD2 (A), all the Waves stuff (B), and several other bits of software. have worked with most of (but not all) the hardware they are modeling, and these emulations are all quite good. I would grade them an A like the UAD emulations. Maybe I am just impressed by the fancy UI, but i don't think so. All these compressors are quite different, and all exhibit characteristics that are appropriate for what they are trying to achieve.

The bottom line is I have been mixing "in the console" recently. Instead of using my tried and true software go to on my computer... I am preferring to use the console. Perhaps in part for the novelty... but on the other hand the workflow is WONDERFUL, and my end products are sounding GREAT, and it is EASY to get results quickly.

Seriously, I know I am sounding like I drank the kool-aid. It's really that good IMHO. Behringer should send me a free stage box or something for raving it so hard, lol (they are not by the way...).

Actually if they are reading this, I would love to be a tester for whatever Stage Connect product they are making. :wink wink:
I upgraded from a x32 rack. Mine is for studio use and I completely agree.
Took away the need to upgrade my computer and having to get fader packs to control Nuendo.
Worth the price for just that. But it is so much more. It really has become a instrument for me more then a mixer.
Old 26th October 2020
  #156
Gear Maniac
 
Gary, I just assume it is a cold day in hell when a gearslut says every club should have a behringer mixer at FOH. I can't imagine a worse fate for live Audio
Old 1st November 2020 | Show parent
  #157
Gear Head
Anyway, here's a genuine question: It seems like the Behringer folks have built an incredibly neat digital-audio-over-XLR cable protocol, called it StageCONNECT, integrated it into this mixer (and a MIDAS monitoring unit)...

And yet, has anybody seen it? I understand that it "hasn't been released yet", but is there even a behind-the-scenes video of this supposed stagebox existing?
Old 1st November 2020 | Show parent
  #158
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmanstan ➡️
Anyway, here's a genuine question: It seems like the Behringer folks have built an incredibly neat digital-audio-over-XLR cable protocol, called it StageCONNECT, integrated it into this mixer (and a MIDAS monitoring unit)...

And yet, has anybody seen it? I understand that it "hasn't been released yet", but is there even a behind-the-scenes video of this supposed stagebox existing?
I believe it's something that they have invented and put in the WING so they at least have one product that supports it ready for when compatible accessories come out, also from what I understand the protocol is being released for free/no royalty so anyone can implement it, we will have to see what happens.
I suppose the most ingenious thing is that it's 32 channels that can either be send OR return so you could have 12 channels going out of the wing at 20 coming back, it's not a fixed number of ins/outs
Old 1st November 2020 | Show parent
  #159
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGL ➡️
I suppose the most ingenious thing is that it's 32 channels that can either be send OR return so you could have 12 channels going out of the wing at 20 coming back, it's not a fixed number of ins/outs
I agree, it sounds ingenious. Personally, I'm bouncing around dozens of fringe venues where networking cable is limited, but XLR is as available as water. Walking into a venue with a brilliantly installed (but limited) four channel analog snake-box pocket, and being instantly able to upgrade that to ~32 channels, without even running power, would be an absolute game changer for anyone short on time, or hands.

Though am I right that it's odd that it's basically hypothetical? It's built into this mixer, but there's no evidence of it doing anything, and the "open source" protocol isn't available anywhere?

Did the AES50 stageboxes also have a delayed release after the X32?

Curious if anyone has tried connecting the StageCONNECT ports from the Wing to the Midas HUB4? Or testing StageCONNECT between two Wings? Is that dumb?

...I'm just so curious.
Old 1st November 2020 | Show parent
  #160
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmanstan ➡️
Personally, I'm bouncing around dozens of fringe venues where networking cable is limited, but XLR is as available as water. Walking into a venue with a brilliantly installed (but limited) four channel analog snake-box pocket, and being instantly able to upgrade that to ~32 channels, without even running power, would be an absolute game changer for anyone short on time, or hands.
You can use xlr-cat adpters to send any aoip protocol through analogue snakes. They are ment the other way round (sending four audio channels through cat 5 cable), but apparently they work just as well sending ip through xlr cables. Available from Radial, Thoman the snake and others.
Old 1st November 2020 | Show parent
  #161
Gear Head
 
cAPSLOCK's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip Dixon ➡️
Gary, I just assume it is a cold day in hell when a gearslut says every club should have a behringer mixer at FOH. I can't imagine a worse fate for live Audio

I sure understand why you feel the way you do. I was rarely a live engineer, and have worked in studios my whole audio career. Before I bought the Wing, I only owned ONE piece of Behringer gear. A headphone amp. Still have it. 2/4 of the channels don't work anymore.

The studio has a tub sink... I let local bands and people I worked with add stickers to the sink, and if gear I owned had a sticker I would slap it on there too. You can see my original opinion of Behringer in this example:



It was in some live settings in which I saw various versions of the X32. I was very impressed with the facilities and sonic quality of that console when I used it but I said I would NEVER buy one and expect the piles of broken ones in the repair shops would reach the ceiling soon enough.

Well time has proven it out. That never happened. The X32 series has been a solid and well made bit of gear and EARNED it's place as the biggest selling mixer of all time (I think).

The Wing is at least built as well, and is a superior piece of gear in every other way. The DSP is top notch, the pre-amps sound fantastic for something on a 3k console (although there ARE only 8 of them, lol), and are super quiet and fast. First thing I used them for was a drumset. Great sound. Impeccable image which is the first place I notice issues with most inexpensive console pres.

If I went into a club or church to do FOH and I saw they had a Wing I would be DELIGHTED.

I simply cannot imagine a mixer with which I could produce a superior result, at least without tons and tons of outboard.

All that money Behringer made selling garbage? Well they used it to buy quality companies, hire great development teams, spent it on R&D, and OBVIOUSLY used a lot of it to make a world of difference in their QC. Understandable that some people may never be won over. But I was.
Old 1st November 2020 | Show parent
  #162
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGL ➡️
I believe it's something that they have invented and put in the WING so they at least have one product that supports it ready for when compatible accessories come out, also from what I understand the protocol is being released for free/no royalty so anyone can implement it, we will have to see what happens.
I suppose the most ingenious thing is that it's 32 channels that can either be send OR return so you could have 12 channels going out of the wing at 20 coming back, it's not a fixed number of ins/outs
there's nothing 'ingenious' about that: every aoip format since 20 years can do that...
Old 1st November 2020 | Show parent
  #163
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeerSoe ➡️
You can use xlr-cat adpters to send any aoip protocol through analogue snakes .... apparently they work just as well sending ip through xlr cables.
What are they called, and what distances are they able to achieve?
Old 1st November 2020
  #164
Gear Maniac
 
You can find a selection here. Haven't worked with them myself, but I have a pair waiting in the studio. I can try to set up an IP connection over my old 30m multicore, maybe Tuesday.
Old 2nd November 2020 | Show parent
  #165
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeerSoe ➡️
You can find a selection here. Haven't worked with them myself, but I have a pair waiting in the studio. I can try to set up an IP connection over my old 30m multicore, maybe Tuesday.
That's a really neat thought. My understanding is that while you can utilize those lil Radial Boxes' to send a mic signal over CAT5, the opposite isn't 100% verifiably reliable. Something about twisted pairs and cable length... I'm not clever enough to remember why, exactly. I've never seen it in the field, and I don't believe that's for no reason.

Regardless, even if you're right:

Multichannel audio utilizing two Radial breakout boxes, two network cables, one stagebox, power cabling, and four lines of XLR
VS
Multichannel audio over one XLR cable, one stagebox, no power cabling.

Is a universe of difference, depending on your gigs. If I'm bouncing around venues, for a small budget tour, or a festival, I'd prefer to minimize my packing list, experiments, or niche adaptors that could fray, and not be quickly replaceable.

Unless, of course, this "stageconnect" breakout box never materializes...
Old 6th November 2020 | Show parent
  #166
Here for the gear
 
Scribble strips and touch-sensitive faders for DAW automation?

Hi all,

First post here. I've been reading up on the WING and getting more and more excited that this is something I need in my life.

My current setup (home project studio) is based around the A&H QU-32 which I've had for a few years. I like the mixer and it sounds good, but I just can't get comfortable with a workflow for DAW control / automation. The first main issue is the lack of any visual feedback on the mixer itself about which tracks the current banking is controlling (it doesn't help that Cubase's own bar indicator in the MixConsole window does not work properly with the QU either) so you're working blind, trying to guess which track is on which fader. The second is that the non-touch-sensitive faders make writing and editing automation from the mixer a real chore.

So I have two questions that I really hope someone can answer: do the displays above the WING's faders display the corresponding track name when controlling a DAW track? And, I've seen conflicting information online - are the WING's faders actually touch-sensitive, and do they latch the writing of DAW automation properly like e.g. Mackie MCU?

Thanks so much!

Cheers,
David
Old 6th November 2020 | Show parent
  #167
Lives for gear
 
RightOnRome's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfram ➡️
Hi all,

First post here. I've been reading up on the WING and getting more and more excited that this is something I need in my life.

My current setup (home project studio) is based around the A&H QU-32 which I've had for a few years. I like the mixer and it sounds good, but I just can't get comfortable with a workflow for DAW control / automation. The first main issue is the lack of any visual feedback on the mixer itself about which tracks the current banking is controlling (it doesn't help that Cubase's own bar indicator in the MixConsole window does not work properly with the QU either) so you're working blind, trying to guess which track is on which fader. The second is that the non-touch-sensitive faders make writing and editing automation from the mixer a real chore.

So I have two questions that I really hope someone can answer: do the displays above the WING's faders display the corresponding track name when controlling a DAW track? And, I've seen conflicting information online - are the WING's faders actually touch-sensitive, and do they latch the writing of DAW automation properly like e.g. Mackie MCU?

Thanks so much!

Cheers,
David
this mixer was not designed for this, it will work .. but you need something specific to your needs .. like a dedicated control surface
Old 16th November 2020
  #168
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
New FW for the wing and copilot app update,

Quote:
WING Firmware UpdateVersion 1.09

The console 1.09 firmware update offers some functional improvements and new features. The highlights of this update are the new Midas Sub Monster Effect and new assignment screens for DCAs and MGRP. Besides a new Tab-View, the routing screens provide new features like indication of all connected AES50 and StageCONNECT devices. This update also offers some UI improvements like PRE-Tap indication on the channel home screen or metering for the WING Live Recorder/Player and some general Bug fixes.

This new WING Firmware version contains: New Features

• Quick channel select from touchscreen (touch the channel number in the upper left corner)
• PRE-Tap indication and setup on channel home screen
• Midas Sub Monster Effect
• Optional channel metering for WING Live Recorder/Player• Indication of connected AES50 and StageCONNECT devices (ROUTING)
• Enable DCAs to control monitor levels (rename DCA to ‘MON A’, ‘MON B’, or ‘MON LVL’ (both))
• Advanced Source-Scope for channel presets
• Tap-View for customization, naming and tags
• Delay for 48V switch (hold for on/off)
• New DCA/MGRP assignment screen (touch assignment overview)
• Option to disable jogwheel during playback



Improvements


• New StageCONNECT configuration (ROUTING)
• Indication of available USB Streams (ROUTING)
• Fixed issue with fader recall in SoF Mode
• Fixed low frequency distortion wth SOUL 9000 Gate and EVEN 88 GATE
• Immediate switch for different USB Audio configurations (No enumeration on boot)
• Fixed routing enable switch

Update Process:

1. Connect a USB cable to the rear panel USB port and to your computer.
2. Either hold the blank button on the main display during power-up or open the SETUP/GENERAL Edit page in order to enable WING OS.
3. A drive icon will appear on your computer, like connecting a flash drive or external hard drive. Double click the drive to open.
4. Extract the firmware zip file and drag/copy the new firmware file into the WING OS drive.
5. After copying is completed, please eject the WING OS drive from your computer.
6. WING should reboot automatically a few seconds after ejecting the drive. If it doesn’t, please power cycle the console, and verify the correct firmware version on the left of the SETUP/GENERAL screen.

Alternative Update from USB Stick:

1. Download any future FW updates from behringer.com and store it on a FAT formatted USB stick.
2. Connect the USB stick to the top panel USB port of WING.
3. Open the SETUP/GENERAL page and tap on the UPDATE icon on the left of the screen.
4. A file browser will appear on the screen, and you can navigate to where the fw update is located.
5. Select the correct FW update file and tap on UPDATE.
6. After installing the update is completed, you will be prompted to reboot the console.
7. The console can be rebooted by power cycling, or by selecting SETUP/SHUTDOWN and holding the SETUP button while pressing the HOME button.
8. Verify the update was successful by comparing the firmware version on the left of the SETUP/GENERAL screen.

Note, WING will always boot using the most recent firmware in the OS drive. However, it is recommended to delete older firmware files or move them to a subfolder

Download here: https://www.behringer.com/behringer/...odelCode=P0BV2
Old 16th November 2020 | Show parent
  #169
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGL ➡️
• New StageCONNECT configuration (ROUTING)
Indication that we'll see a stageconnect box soon?
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