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anyone get a soundcraft ui16 yet?
Old 22nd April 2015
  #1
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
anyone get a soundcraft ui16 yet?

Our bar band is looking at a digital mixer and this model fits better than the rest due to the HTML5 platform, that it's not ipad specific, very good pricing.

Searching the web can't find any user experience yet?

Any early adopters on here?
Old 22nd April 2015
  #2
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
don't think they ae quite on the shelves yet - pre-order only - but release date is April!
Old 21st May 2015
  #3
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
I set one up for a Church in Texas last weekend, the Soundcraft Ui16 is a fine mixer I love this thing. I highly recommend this one. I was mixing from a $200 Chromebook, it will work on any platform with wifi. I used compression on every mic and instrument and it works amazing, so you do not need to adjust the volume levels as often. The compression puts a cap on out of control audio. There are 4 aux outputs for the monitors, each one can be custom mixed by the musicians phone, up to 10 devices. The eq works awesome. You can set up one mic or channel and copy and past the settings on other channels. It has 2 usb plugs on top, one for recording and the other for playing. I recommend an usb with dual males one having the micro usb to download on android device to share with friends on Google drive. The first 2 channels are for guitars they have the Digitech sound processors. You can name each channel and set groups and also mute groups. Play with the demo and click on every thing to get the feel of it. http://www.soundcraft.com/ui-demo/mixer.html
You get a lot of powerful tools for your money. Go buy one you wont regret it.
Old 21st May 2015
  #4
Lives for gear
 
mojo filters's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
4 aux outputs which can be controlled by up to 10 devices? Sounds like a recipe for a clusterfcuk!

Why were Soundcraft so tightfisted with auxiliaries? It's no more than a Mixwiz, hardly progress. I expect a degree of weirdness from Behringer kit, but expected better of Soundcraft ... even the name uses the typical cheap MI practice of counting absolutely every possible input!

Obviously it's good to know folks are finding them nice to use. The HTML5 operating platform idea was very smart, especially in this segment of the market.
Old 22nd May 2015
  #5
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Actually it is 6 AUX, the headphone output can be set to be AUX instead of PFL.
(and it will give you your 31band graphic, compressor and AFS on the output.

Remember that you can have multiple devices controlling this unit. So for example you could have a PC with a large screen at FOH as well as a pad or 2 screen connected to a PC showing several pages of the mixer at the same time.
Old 23rd May 2015
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
To be fair, it is essentially a 12 input (13 if you want to include the RCA stereo input) mixer with 4 aux outputs.

Still, for $550.00 it is quite a deal. The only thing that is even close is the XR16 which is a 16 input mixer, but only 8 XLR inputs (the other 8 are 1/4").

As for the HTML5 .... my engineering self says that it isn't a great idea. HTML5 is an interpretive language .... meaning that something interprets what the source code is trying to say. JAVA and C# are like this as well, but the difference is ...... JAVA and C# have a dedicated interpreter for each operating system while HTML5 is interpreted by each version of each browser differently. This seems pretty risky to me, but perhaps it will be OK. Time will tell. I can tell you this. HTML5 is notoriously slow compared to native compiled apps. It is generally 100x slower. That may or may not be an issue, but again, time will tell.

On the positive side of things, the DBX feedback eliminator and the Lexicon efx (rumor has it that it uses the MPX400 algorithms) are a big plus for the platform. The inclusion of the "Soundcraft" name is also a very good thing.

The DL1604 is getting a little long in the tooth IMO. I think we can count on Mackie upping their game in the near future with this and the Behringer XR series pounding on their doors Hopefully they will get with the program and give the platform remote head amps and a decent verb for the next revision!
Old 23rd May 2015
  #7
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
I really like the GUI of this ui mixer. It is designed into detail. The HTML5 is slower but they are just handling GUI there, but it gives the flexibility to use it on any platform. If you try the demo site with your macbook pro, you can feel how quick it is to mix in combination of touch pad and keyboard. The usb player on this is also better, it supports mp3, aac, flac, etc.

I only need the ui12, but the biggest failing point is that it does not support recording to usb...
Old 23rd May 2015
  #8
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
To be fair... Ui16 is 14 analog inputs (even the stereo RCA can be treated as LR) the USB player has full processing on it, I obviously tried it... You can tread each side of the player as a separate input as well with processing (EQ Dynamics) we used the Left to AUX for click track and the right had the backing track on it.

HTML5 being 100x slower.. that a myth.. I am sorry to say. The Ui code is Html5 on CANVAS basically you have 25 frames per second update.

Still best to always try on your own device and test.

My issue with apps sometimes were that if my device failed (or ran out of charge) I could take another phone or pad and just use it.

At the end you choose what works for you, how many channels you really need, what effects quality you want, how the gui works on your device.
Old 23rd May 2015 | Show parent
  #9
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by VFXAU ➑️
To be fair... Ui16 is 14 analog inputs (even the stereo RCA can be treated as LR) the USB player has full processing on it, I obviously tried it... You can tread each side of the player as a separate input as well with processing (EQ Dynamics) we used the Left to AUX for click track and the right had the backing track on it.

HTML5 being 100x slower.. that a myth.. I am sorry to say. The Ui code is Html5 on CANVAS basically you have 25 frames per second update.

Still best to always try on your own device and test.

My issue with apps sometimes were that if my device failed (or ran out of charge) I could take another phone or pad and just use it.

At the end you choose what works for you, how many channels you really need, what effects quality you want, how the gui works on your device.
I don't keep any XLR to RCA cables in my rig. Perhaps others do

At best, the use of those jacks for anything other than plugging your iPhone into them for break music is very inconvenient.

As for the speed, I agree that in most situations it is merely 50 times slower. From here: Why mobile web apps are slow | Sealed Abstract

Granted, the weakness of HTML5 and its associated technologies may be of less importance as memory becomes larger and processors become faster.

None of this is to say that the new Soundcraft is not a compelling product. I believe it to be so. The price point and features are quite good.
Old 24th May 2015
  #10
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
We can argue technically here for ages but I wish you wouldn't just throw out number in the air (50 x 100 x) and based on a totally different technology to what the article is referring to. The article refers to complex programs written in HTML5 where this is just a control surface.

It just uses a flat canvas, where all what
matters is how fast it can draw primitives and blit images, and the
amount of calculation done in-between is very small.



A Webapp is where a HTML5 app is written and then converted into a 'native like' app running on your device. Which means it becomes both the server and client.

On the other hand the Ui is the server, your device is merely a client. It is doing less then a native app would do.

Anyway, if anyone is interested, I am happy to give more information on how this all works.

It's very simple, grab your PC (any flavor) or IPAD log into the website and test.
(although the meters on the demo are just random as no audio is there)
Or better check it out in a store. Then compare with apps. Especially the speed at which you can change screens with keyboard commands.

Feel the responsiveness of the fader movement and the meters.

At the end of the day, it's all about the GUI (besides the sound and dsp functionality) and how it operates, the technology behind it should not matter to the user as much.

With any of these new generation mixers just ask yourself:
-Do I have enough channels
-Does it have all the features I need (sounds, DSP)
-Is the GUI nice to use
-will it work on my current devices and my future devices? (and this is where HTML5 is also an advantage because in a couple of months when a new IOS or a new Device comes up, this will work right away without any updates).
-Who is the company behind it.

Last edited by VFXAU; 24th May 2015 at 10:37 AM..
Old 24th May 2015
  #11
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
I looked over the manual but it left me with some questions. Like, what does the HDMI output do? The manual says nothing about it!

As far as using a browser based app, I think it's a great idea. Much better than iPad only or a bunch of separately developed apps with their own bugs and quirks.
Old 24th May 2015
  #12
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
HDMI right now displays meters

Future firmware will have actual Mixer as well.
Old 24th May 2015 | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by VFXAU ➑️
We can argue technically here for ages but I wish you wouldn't just throw out number in the air (50 x 100 x) and based on a totally different technology to what the article is referring to. The article refers to complex programs written in HTML5 where this is just a control surface.

It just uses a flat canvas, where all what
matters is how fast it can draw primitives and blit images, and the
amount of calculation done in-between is very small.



A Webapp is where a HTML5 app is written and then converted into a 'native like' app running on your device. Which means it becomes both the server and client.

On the other hand the Ui is the server, your device is merely a client. It is doing less then a native app would do.

Anyway, if anyone is interested, I am happy to give more information on how this all works.

It's very simple, grab your PC (any flavor) or IPAD log into the website and test.
(although the meters on the demo are just random as no audio is there)
Or better check it out in a store. Then compare with apps. Especially the speed at which you can change screens with keyboard commands.

Feel the responsiveness of the fader movement and the meters.

At the end of the day, it's all about the GUI (besides the sound and dsp functionality) and how it operates, the technology behind it should not matter to the user as much.

With any of these new generation mixers just ask yourself:
-Do I have enough channels
-Does it have all the features I need (sounds, DSP)
-Is the GUI nice to use
-will it work on my current devices and my future devices? (and this is where HTML5 is also an advantage because in a couple of months when a new IOS or a new Device comes up, this will work right away without any updates).
-Who is the company behind it.
Hmm. Well I will agree with you that arguing over the technology is pointless. I would point out however, that the actual "code" performed in HTML5 is javascript. HTML is now and will always be a formatting language. CSS is a way of personalizing look and feel of a laid out page, and javascript is the "code" that executes logic within a page. HTML5 is simply a more advanced construct than previous HTML revisions allowing tighter integration of the above mentioned elements.

From here: android - HTML5+JavaScript vs native app development 2015 - Stack Overflow

This has been my experience as well ..... and I mean experience, not speculation as I do this for a living.

Your advice was sound though. For any HTML5 application (ie javascript driven), it is imperative that you verify it on a specific device and operating system.

Your other points were quite valid as well. When picking out a new mixer, you need to consider:
  1. Mixer resources assess your needs (channel count, application support, auxes, matrix mixes, internal fx units, MIDI, etc etc)
  2. Does it actually sound good?
  3. Is the workflow good for what I do?
  4. Is it reliable and durable enough for my needs?
  5. How long is it reasonable to expect the apps to be supported for?

While my own applications require very judicious use of memory and are very CPU intensive across many threads, lets just assume that a mixer application isn't AS onerous on resources as what I do day to day and therefore does not need the utmost performance or memory friendliness in order to function properly.

Javascript (HTML5) is interpreted by each version of each browser on each OS differently. It is a nightmare to validate on an on-going basis because of this.

None of Soundcraft's other products use this technology. What worries me is that Soundcraft will realize the issues with maintaining such an unwieldy beast and revert to a native app on the next revision of the Ui series. Remember, they didn't develop this thing themselves. They simply purchased a company that went down this path so they could compete with the Behringer XR mixer series.

Before you even ask, the reason I feel confident in Behringers approach is that they have published the interface to their devices so that 3rd parties can develop applications for them. The MixingStation app for Android is a living example of this, but if I really wanted to take the time, I could easily create my own application for any of the Behringer digital mixers in the language of my choice on the operating system I want it in. Any decent developer could.

Still, while I am not a fan of HTML5 and javascript (although CSS is very cool even used within C++ program GUI components), that does not mean the new Ui mixers will not be remarkably successful. They have all the boxes checked so as long as they sound good and are reliable, they will be a huge value in the market and should further push other companies to even better products in the future to keep pace with them.

While I am sure that Soundcraft used their engineering arm to enhance them at the last minute, remember that these were not originally a Soundcraft product. They were designed by a small company that Soundcraft purchased.

I am definitely going to take the "wait and see" approach before purchasing any of these or recommending them to anyone else.
Old 26th May 2015
  #14
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Back to HTML5 speed...

If you are using the DOM
"The Document Object Model (DOM) is a programming interface for HTML, XML and SVG documents. It provides a structured representation of the document (a tree) and it defines a way that the structure can be accessed from programs so that they can change the document structure, style and content. The DOM provides a representation of the document as a structured group of nodes and objects that have properties and methods. Nodes can also have event handlers attached to them, and once that event is triggered the event handlers get executed. Essentially, it connects web pages to scripts or programming languages."

Then yes it is slow, Ui Writes to Canvas directly, it does not use the DOM and that is why it feels fast (because it is).

Try it!
Old 26th May 2015
  #15
a2m
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
It is all nice and fine to talk about the technical reasons why a web-based html5 interface will or will not work.
Has anyone actually played around with a Soundcraft UI? Is there a issue with sluggish response?

I played with a Soundcraft UI16 during a trade show, I had no issues whatsoever with speed to control the mixer.
If you are doing sound for a small band (which the UI16 is meant for) I think it will works perfectly.
The only issue that might occur is sluggish network and connection problems. This is not a Soundcraft issue, you just have to make sure you have a good router and a maybe a backup wired connection to the mixer.

RJB
Old 26th May 2015
  #16
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
I'm interested in a comparison between ui12 and xr12.
Old 26th May 2015
  #17
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
I'm a bit confused. How does having and HTML5 interface differ from an app? Do you need a connection to the web to make it work?
Old 26th May 2015 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by higradeguy ➑️
I'm a bit confused. How does having and HTML5 interface differ from an app? Do you need a connection to the web to make it work?
No. The benefit of using HTML5 is that you can use any device or computer to control it without having to download an app first.
Old 28th May 2015 | Show parent
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by a2m ➑️
It is all nice and fine to talk about the technical reasons why a web-based html5 interface will or will not work.
Has anyone actually played around with a Soundcraft UI? Is there a issue with sluggish response?

I played with a Soundcraft UI16 during a trade show, I had no issues whatsoever with speed to control the mixer.
If you are doing sound for a small band (which the UI16 is meant for) I think it will works perfectly.
The only issue that might occur is sluggish network and connection problems. This is not a Soundcraft issue, you just have to make sure you have a good router and a maybe a backup wired connection to the mixer.

RJB
I took delivery of a ui16 earlier this week and have been testing extensively ahead of gig this Saturday. So far I can say that the browser based GUI is fast, responsive, intuitive and generally a joy to use. Sound is great, and it's packed full of excellent functionality. I had an XR18 before, which is also a really excellent mixer, but had to send it back due to a fault. I was going to buy another one but after extensive research I finally went for the ui16 mainly because of the GUI, the media player and the feedback elimination feature.
Old 28th May 2015
  #20
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Does the Ui have a wall wart power supply? Rack mountable?
Old 29th May 2015
  #21
270182
Guest
OneEgg, you really have no idea what you are talking about, and all of your posturing hypotheticals is pointless.

Soundcraft purchased the company and intellectual property, gave it cashflow and resources, to develop the product into what it is. Of course this product is completely different. It is not Soundcraft in origin. If anything, Soundcraft may have gained some technology and different ways of doing things.

The reason why they were slow to deliver is because demand exceeded supply about three fold in the US alone.
Old 29th May 2015
  #22
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
OneEng is an X32 Rack owner right? which is fine nothing wrong with them but please go out and use the Ui HTML5 interface and then comment back to how it works because every other person who compared and tested between different apps for other digital mixers and the Ui will immediately feel how solid and fast it is.
Old 29th May 2015 | Show parent
  #23
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks ➑️
Does the Ui have a wall wart power supply? Rack mountable?
Ui 16 is rack mountable, both ui16 and ui12 have lockable DC power supply blocks, not wall warts. The DC connector screws on so you cannot kick it out and then a figure 8 cable connects to the supply.
Old 29th May 2015 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by higradeguy ➑️
I'm a bit confused. How does having and HTML5 interface differ from an app? Do you need a connection to the web to make it work?
The ui16 is a web server! It's such a neat idea.
Old 29th May 2015
  #25
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
From what I understand html5 is a particular computer standard that will communicate with different OS. It would be resident on the ui itself.

An application is resident on the control device (Tablet, PC, Mac, Ipad).

Because apps are specifically written for particular control devices, an app should be faster than html5. The tradeoff is that html5 is more efficient because only one program is required to control the ui versus having an app for android, an app for Ipad, an app for PC and an app for Mac.

Did Soundcraft include a strong router with the ui or did they throw in a low power router that disconnects at the first opportunity?
Old 29th May 2015 | Show parent
  #26
Lives for gear
 
Autocrat's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by scuifan1 ➑️
I took delivery of a ui16 earlier this week and have been testing extensively ahead of gig this Saturday. So far I can say that the browser based GUI is fast, responsive, intuitive and generally a joy to use. Sound is great, and it's packed full of excellent functionality. I had an XR18 before, which is also a really excellent mixer, but had to send it back due to a fault. I was going to buy another one but after extensive research I finally went for the ui16 mainly because of the GUI, the media player and the feedback elimination feature.
Trying to keep this more about the features and functionality of the mixer vs. HTML5 discussion. I'm also thinking either XR18 or ui16. I also used the Mackie DL1608 and liked it.

Anything you don't like about it? Limited inputs, Aux outs? Any quirkiness in the GUI?
Old 29th May 2015
  #27
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
I gave the UI16 some consideration , but couldn't get over the fact that it only has 12 xlr inputs That's a MAJOR flaw and does not let it compete with the Mackie dl1608 or the Behringer XR18 or ANY other REAL 16 channel mixer . Had they put 16 xlr inputs and even bumped up the price a bit I very well might have chose the UI16 over the XR18
Old 29th May 2015 | Show parent
  #28
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autocrat ➑️
Trying to keep this more about the features and functionality of the mixer vs. HTML5 discussion. I'm also thinking either XR18 or ui16. I also used the Mackie DL1608 and liked it.

Anything you don't like about it? Limited inputs, Aux outs? Any quirkiness in the GUI?
So far nothing to dislike. I understand the point about limited inputs but my band are a four/occasional five piece and so the ui16 is more than enough for us. Also there are effectively 6 aux outputs - the 4 XLR's plus you have the option to configure the two headphone TRS jacks as aux outputs. One other thing I forgot to mention previously is that the ui mixers have a very comprehensive user guide. Using that in conjunction with the online software demo I was able to get up to speed on almost everything before I took delivery!
Old 29th May 2015
  #29
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
What are the pick off points for auxes? Can the aux outs be selected pre/post fader and pre/post eq?
Old 29th May 2015
  #30
Here for the gear
 
midi510's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I just wish I could get one. I've ordered from three different places that didn't get their shipments. I'm doing the sound for my daughter's graduation and want to sit in the audience and control the system with my ASUS tablet, not sit behind a mixer. It seems like if these models hold up and are successful in the long run, they'll offer a UI24, which will probably have 20 XLRs. It would be cool if they could be run in multiples and have them show up as one in the interface. Is there any way to link them?
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