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Lexicon 224X vs 224 XL
Old 1st March 2014 | Show parent
  #91
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AnalogGuy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpulyn ➡️
all the photos of Vangelis in his Nemo Studios in London from that time show the old Lexicon 224 LARC (dont know if it was called LARC at that time) with the metalic sides and 2 rows of buttons above the faders... the new LARC (plastic blue box and 3 rows of buttons above faders) didnt start to appear before late 1990's - which is not his golden era anymore for me... the golden era of Blade Runner has the 224 metalic LARC on almost every studio shot... whats interesting i saw the 224 LARC on some later photos from his glass house studio in paris that must have been 1992 or something and he apparently still didnt sell the old 224... but he may have used it along 224X and others in those times.... iam curious if he liked something about the old 224 DAC's that he didnt fully part with it until 1992... and he sure could buy one Lexicon every week and he did change every other peice of gear going from old analogs (CS-80, Prophet, Jupiter 4) to semi digital setup...

Nemo Studios in London - golden era of Vangelis - circa 1982
http://www.nemostudios.co.uk/nemo/se...o-Sound-6c.jpg

Epsilon Studios in Paris (glass house) - later Vangelis - circa 1992
http://elsew.com/data/epsilon4.jpg

but getting a working 224 in 2014 is probably real pain in the ass and asking for trouble... still the doubts are already in my head... what if....
Vangelis was the very first owner of Lexicon 224, by serial 0002 (0001 was Lexicon's own model not to be sold). It's interesting to research about his 224X because there's not much information available really. However, after I discovered this video, I can confirm that Vangelis bought 224X already in the same year when it was manufactured in 1983. You can see the blue remote in this 1983 video before he recorded antarctica soundtrack:



So I would say that most of the Nemo albums (Antarctica, Soil festivies, Mask, Private Collections) uses 224X because it sounds brighter than 224 since the audio bandwidth was doubled from 8Khz to 16Khz and you can hear it too.

Interestingly enough even after 480L, Vangelis still used original 224 together with 224X, even in Mythodea concert 2001:




P.S. About the LARC naming, 224 and 224X are using "Remote", not LARC. LARC means the remote which contains more functions.
Old 2nd March 2014
  #92
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nednerd's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks for the info AnalogGuy.

So:
The 224x (blue remote) was released in 1983.
"Blade Runner" was released in 1982.
I guess this answers the question as to what reverb was used on the "Blade Runner" soundtrack.
He used the original 224 (white remote).

Interesting live setup.
I can see 6 foot pedals...and what are these white boxes he uses in massive amounts?
Sequencers probably?
Old 2nd March 2014
  #93
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
.......and here he is today, still using the 224x (at least) and those "white boxes" ....... ?

BBC Four - Sound of Cinema: The Music that Made the Movies, New Frontiers, Composing for Chariots of Fire
Old 2nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #94
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AnalogGuy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nednerd ➡️
Thanks for the info AnalogGuy.

So:
The 224x (blue remote) was released in 1983.
"Blade Runner" was released in 1982.
I guess this answers the question as to what reverb was used on the "Blade Runner" soundtrack.
He used the original 224 (white remote).

Interesting live setup.
I can see 6 foot pedals...and what are these white boxes he uses in massive amounts?
Sequencers probably?
You can only see the half side of them. He uses 16 volume pedals + sustain pedal.



Those white boxes are part of his customized gear. You can see my detailed explanation here:

Invisible Connections :: View topic - Vangelis' newer custom setup explained!!!
Old 7th March 2014 | Show parent
  #95
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
well its true that specific reverb unit wont make your space sound exactly the same as any particular artist from 80s - there is about 100 other influences and mixing decisions along the vintage analog signal path that probably contributed to that particular record album or track sound (VINTAGE EQ & COMPRESORS, THE USE OF ANALOG REEL TAPE AND NOISE REDUCTION, CONSOLES OF THE 70s/80s)... i just personally like the Lexicon sound on its own since i got PCM-70 and iam sure the Lex224 would be a step up in the Lexicon sound... also i got REEL TAPE and some vintage EQs so i could say i definitelly have a taste for that old school 70/80 analog sound with tons of character and inperfections... but someone else might prefer total opposite - CLEAN and totally "TRANSPARENT" reverbs... so all Lexicons and Bricasti and UADs will find their users and lovers - its about musical taste - there is no wrong music
Old 22nd May 2014 | Show parent
  #96
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by aramism ➡️
Real cool thread. I'm trying to brush up on the specifics of the flagship lex mainframe units as I was only 2 when the 480 came out! So I don't have "old school" experience with this stuff but want to learn about the various versions.

Question: the 224X 4.x to 8.x upgrade is what makes an X become an XL right? Is it purely software related or also some hardware that changes. Jim Williams mentioned that the bitrate changed as well. So I'm guessing a 224x 4.x version is the one being talked about as the more "vibey" one. If my assumption that 8.x version along with hardware upgrades essentially make it an XL.
bump?

if a unit has blue remote and 8.1 and it says 224X on the unit?

which one is that? I'm confused.
Old 15th January 2015
  #97
Gear Maniac
 
rtype909's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Why choose between them when you can mash them together:

"We often combine more than one [device] to create a sound. One particular one that sticks in my memory is the snare-drum sound on Yazoo's "Don't Go", I did that using the Lexicon 224 and 224x [reverbs] ganged together. We came across that sound entirely by accident, but then again, in the final analysis I think you discover almost everything by accident, just by fiddling around." - Eric Radcliffe (source wikipedia)
Old 15th January 2015 | Show parent
  #98
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ionian's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtype909 ➡️
Why choose between them when you can mash them together:

"We often combine more than one [device] to create a sound. One particular one that sticks in my memory is the snare-drum sound on Yazoo's "Don't Go", I did that using the Lexicon 224 and 224x [reverbs] ganged together. We came across that sound entirely by accident, but then again, in the final analysis I think you discover almost everything by accident, just by fiddling around." - Eric Radcliffe (source wikipedia)
Very cool fun fact! Thanks for posting!
Old 16th May 2016 | Show parent
  #99
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adamcal's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If anyone is lusting after a 224X and can't find one available, there is always my t shirt or coffee mug to tie you over.

"twotwentyfour #1" Graphic T-Shirts by Adam Calaitzis | Redbubble

"Two Twenty Four X " Mugs by Adam Calaitzis | Redbubble
Attached Thumbnails
Lexicon 224X vs 224 XL-screen-shot-2016-04-28-12.37.22-pm.png  
Old 22nd May 2016 | Show parent
  #100
Gear Head
 
Steviejams's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Great thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by reedosi ➡️
I'm going to qualify my question with the following background:

1. I bought a 480L 12 years ago. Most useful reverb I have ever owned.

2. My business partner got an EMT 140 a few years ago. Most useful reverb we have ever used. It's the only chamber that sounds like the source material is actually inside the space.

3. I got an early 224 about a year ago. It does everything you wish the 480L would do, but in a complementary fashion. The 480L is still the most useful reverb I have ever owned, and the 224 completes the picture, and then some. If you're a Blade Runner fan, then it's the only reverb you will ever need. We will never part with the 224.

4. The AMS RMX-16 does everything else. You can always hear it.

5. We have bought & sold other reverbs in the quest for great ambience. EMT 240 (sounds like a fish tank), EMT 250 (sounds like digital reverb), TC Electronic (magically disappears in a mix), PCM 70 (ok until it breaks), AKG BX-20 (still sounds like a spring reverb, not that there's anything wrong with that), Yamaha REV-1 (claannnngggg), Roland (what's the point), Um, never tried the Biscotti

Ok, all that said, I just got a 224X that was upgraded to 8 point whatever with the LARC, so I guess it's a 224XL. I respect Mr. Fletcher, but I have to say, it sounds incredible. Based on what I have read in this forum, it seems like it's probably the same inside as a 480L with the 224 card option. Is that true?

...and if so, where can I get said 224 card option? Kulka? Anyone?

Just to follow up, here are some emoticons:

HAHAHAH! LOVE THIS! You guys are all fantastic. I'll interject my two cents. Found this thread, bc I just bought a 224X(L) with LARC for $1000. It's cherry. I "may" keep it if I like it, or I may evilBay it, for a nice profit. It was a 224X upgraded to v8.2OS. So...much to The Fletchmeister's chagrin....it has the "sound nouveau" he detests.

1) Love the 480L and the 300 for bigger spaces and plates. Great on drums, etc.

2) RMX-16 does round out what the Lexi stuff can't Random program rocks on drums, too.

3) For smaller spaces...nothing compares to some of the killer algorithms inside the Kurzweil KSP-8. They nailed the smaller rooms. All around animal for multi-effect design - especially for a synth programmer like me.

4) Eventide 2016 and H8000 also rock for vocals and solo instruments. Verbs stands out spatially without being obnoxious or overbearing.

5) EMT 250 and 251 - ehh. Not worth the maintenance costs to keep them running. Sold them both years ago.

6) Lexicon PCM-70 IS in fact a chip off the 224 family block. That's what Ray Maxwell told me years ago. Love some of the sounds in there, as well as the 60, 80 and 90.

7) Owned Rev 7s and Rev 5s over the years. No great shakes. Sorry. the Roland SRV-330 has some interesting algorithms, but is not in the same league as Lexicon, AMS, or Eventide...or the KSP-8. And as far as TC? Verb is definitly not their strong point.

8) I will be checking out the Biscotti....er uh, excuse me, the Bricasti. Sorry have coffee on the brain right now.

Cheers.
Old 23rd May 2016
  #101
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nednerd's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I agree with most of the above statements regarding the Lexicon and AMS reverb heritage being timeless and others not so much.

You forgot to mention the Quantec QRS. This ist a real classic in a class of its own.
While I love my Lex480,224,224XL,AMS RMX,... If I had to choose one, I'd keep the QRS... I hope I never have to.
Plus, I do like my EMT 244s. They are magic on percussion!
Old 23rd May 2016 | Show parent
  #102
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anguswoodhead's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Have my music play list on random...
Every time a Vangelis track comes on the verbs just blow me away.
Incredible.
Old 23rd June 2017
  #103
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
I've just acquired the first version of the 224 (along with a CS-80). Is it possible to date the Lexicon using the serial number?
Old 23rd June 2017 | Show parent
  #104
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zmix's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schnellecke ➡️
I've just acquired the first version of the 224 (along with a CS-80). Is it possible to date the Lexicon using the serial number?
The 224 was only produced for a few years, but I can help if you tell me what firmware version it has, and also if it has a NVS card or not...
Old 5th July 2017 | Show parent
  #105
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zmix ➡️
The 224 was only produced for a few years, but I can help if you tell me what firmware version it has, and also if it has a NVS card or not...
No NVS and the firmware is 4.3.
Old 8th July 2017 | Show parent
  #106
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schnellecke ➡️
I've just acquired the first version of the 224 (along with a CS-80). Is it possible to date the Lexicon using the serial number?
I am Vangelous of you.




-bryan
Old 30th October 2017
  #107
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Hi! Any lucky person who has got a 224x remote (not larc) user manual and would like to share it?
Old 5th March 2018
  #108
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
This is one of the best threads ever, and the right group to help answer this ques. Searched for everything I could with google, hadn't found this thread, Just posted what's below in the synth listserve, then OldGearGuy directed me here, reposting below my original:

"Is 224XL (which I hear is dramatically better than 224, I think better converters for better sound) still THE reverb to have for vintage synth music? would I be better served with several smaller but still high quality units for the same money?

How does 224XL compare to similarly revered reverbs in its price range, like Quantec QRS, SONY DRE-77, AMS RMX16, or 480l with Classic Cart (the last being quite more expensive)? Does 480l with classic cart sound quite diff from 224XL?

---

WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR: The big question is, 224XL as my main reverb, or a few lesser units for similar overall cash?

I make music inspired by classic horror films, looking to bring out the warmth and tone of vintage synths to the max. Trying to up my game to near-professional recording levels, in part by switching over from plugins to hardware where it makes sense, currently use Valhalla on everything (and it's amazing!), but for some things looking for that extra 3D and transparent clarity without mud at high reverb levels that only hardware seems to provide (hands on interface also cool). I often record dry to capture the full bit of the synths, but with the right hardware, there's that transparency that allows it to retain the bite with the extra juice of reverb.

Here's an example of my tunes.



Started by buying pcm 70, then lex 200, sold both, to my ears could do 95% of what they do with Valhalla. Then I bought Ursa Major Space Station for 2k, and I'm blown away by how 3D it sounds, but it only makes shorter tail reverbs, but figure supplementing with a Stargate could give me a lot as my base setup, but as these are more character units, many have suggested a Lex 300 or 300L for full mixes. Also really like demos of DYNACORD DRS-78, similar in concept to the Ursas, and has this really wide 3D image if really limited in what it can do, def a character verb. Also can't see working without a spring for what I do, but looking for one that sounds more refined/plate-like, I hear Master Room XL-305 is pretty good for that. (Was also thinking about Oto Bam or the new Meris reverbs, but demos just don't seem as alive to my ears as some of these others, so I think I've decided against these).

But if I get all those (Ursa SST-282 and 323, Lex 300, dyna DRS-78, masterroom xl-305), that's a lot of cash, could have a 224 that I hear is the best for my type of music that I can get.

When I listen to demos, the 224 (few demos of xl, is the diff more clarity of sound?) seems a bit too dark and not as 3D as I'd like (perhaps too 'already done'?), the 480/300 more 3D but a bit too modern, can't find demos of 224XL or 480l classic cart. I like all the chorusing though on lex, but should I be looking at something else, like quantec QRS (but doesn't it try to reproduce real spaces) or ams (but isn't that mostly really grainy)? For transparency, PCM 92 or bricasti (expensive!) perhaps, but I'm guessing they also sound too modern, and I don't need or want my reverb to sound 'natural.' That's why I was thinking stargate 323, which is great for character, but perhaps less for mixes.

WHICH SETUP?

Setup 1 would likely be ursa major SST-282, stargate 323, Lex 300, DYNACORD DRS-78, master room xl-305.

Setup 2 would be lex 224XL, ursa major SST-282 (does a lot more than reverb), and maybe one other less pricey character box (likely spring, so master room).

Setup 3 would be similar to 2, just a diff center pricey reverb, like a quantec QRS, 480l with classic cart, etc.

Downside of setup 2/3 is no matter how great the main reverb, things could sound a little same-ish after a while, but with synths I've learned a few pieces of high-quality gear is nearly always better than a lot of 2nd or 3rd tier."
Old 30th May 2018 | Show parent
  #109
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anguswoodhead's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
FYI
I have a perfect working condition 224XL I’m thinking of selling.
Cosmetically good - 1 rack ear was bent in transit.
Old 30th May 2018
  #110
Gear Guru
I got my 224X from an LA rental company back in the 1990's. "Fix one, keep one" was the deal. So I did. Then I upgraded the cards to XL specs with ver. 8.2 EPROMS. That required a lot of chip changes but is doable.
Old 30th May 2018 | Show parent
  #111
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Sigma's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher ➡️
In theory, they should sound the same... in practice, the 224XL pales in comparison. The plates, especially the "constant density plate" on the 224X buried the plates on the 224XL.

The 224X seemed to have a far less delicate nature to the tone of the reverbs. Sonicly, a far superior unit IMNTLBFHO
exactly!! they ran a diff software algorthm..224 x blew away even the 480 on shorter room settings and some plates..that's why we kept them and got the 480s..if i remember there were diff software vers thru the 224 runs
Old 18th July 2019 | Show parent
  #112
Here for the gear
 
MarcNuman's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher ➡️
In theory, they should sound the same... in practice, the 224XL pales in comparison. The plates, especially the "constant density plate" on the 224X buried the plates on the 224XL.

The 224X seemed to have a far less delicate nature to the tone of the reverbs. Sonicly, a far superior unit IMNTLBFHO

Does anyone know if its possible to somehow downgrade a 224XL to a 224X and use it with a LARC?

I have a 224X that was upgraded to 8.2 and XL and I only have the white LARC and not the blue one.

If the Sound of the older X Version is so much better I'm interested to downgrade it.
I would also be interested in sound samples and recordings from the 224x or even better in a comparsion of 224x and 224XL.
I could record samples with my 224XL.
Who has a 224x? We could record samples with the same dry audio files for comparsion.
Old 18th July 2019 | Show parent
  #113
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zmix's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphorion ➡️
Hi! Any lucky person who has got a 224x remote (not larc) user manual and would like to share it?
I have scanned my 224 manual, just click here.
Old 18th July 2019 | Show parent
  #114
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zmix ➡️
I have scanned my 224 manual, just click here.
That post is from 2 years ago!
Old 18th July 2019 | Show parent
  #115
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zmix's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zasterz ➡️
That post is from 2 years ago!
This thread is about a Reverb that is over 40 years old.
Old 18th July 2019 | Show parent
  #116
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zmix ➡️
This thread is about a Reverb that is over 40 years old.
Don’t need to tell me- I’ve got 2 of em. Just saying that person’s probably not looking for the manual anymore!
Old 11th January 2021 | Show parent
  #117
Here for the gear
Many thanks for the scan!
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