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Real Neumanns or clones?
Old 2nd October 2002
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Real Neumanns or clones?

Hey, I'm looking at a pair of Neumanns for vox, and room mics but how do they stack up to the competition,i.e.,Soundelux,Blue,Lawson ?
I have no experience with any of these but I'd like to get a pair of fet 47's, or 147's or the like. Would the 193's or the 170's be better?
Hey guys, sorry if I have too many posts this week, I'm waiting for some gear to get fixed, so I'm painting my studio and contemplating a gear fix
Thanks
Daniel
Old 2nd October 2002
  #2
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
The new Neumanns look good for most clients, but there are plenty of cheaper less well known brands that are certain to be better cash and sonic value if you dont require client brand recognition value from a mic IMHO.

I got a deal on a new pair of M149's. I am happy with them, but do wonder what I could have got say, from the Soundelux range....


Old 2nd October 2002
  #3
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groundcontrol's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The mics you list are all pretty different sounding from one another. The 170 is a pretty clean, fast and sort of accurate mic. It's actually pretty good if that's what you're after. The dfegad 193, I would personnally avoid as I find it probably one of the most boring/worst design Neumann ever put out. The 147 is ok to good on some stuff and not that great on most stuff. I find it somewhat closed sounding but it can be used as (not quite as good) substitutes for the fet47 traditional chores of bass amp and outside kick, all in all not the most versatile all around mic. The fet47 is a classic, useful on a lot of sources, great on most thing that go BOOM in the low end (even trombone when you want someting brighter than a ribbon). Probably the best for room out of those you mentionned. However they are kind of expensive and sort of hard to come by for ones in good shape. I would suggest you investigate the Soundelux U195 as an alternative. They seem quite able to take the place of fet47's at what they excel and are probably more versatile in the grander scheme of things. Did I mention they are also cheaper and come with a warranty!!!

The M149 are definitely an excellent choice for drums/general room applications. However, I've not liked them for much else and they are a bit pricey as a "specialty" mic. tut

Personnally, when budget is not an issue I try to have the project rent in a nice pair of tube 47's and/or some C12's for room mics... yuktyy rollz YUMMM!!!

Try to rent/borrow/demo as many of those as you can get and try them at your place. You'll be able to better determine which one will give you the sound you're after...

Good luck!
Old 2nd October 2002
  #4
Gear Guru
 
NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
It really depends on what you are looking for. Both work quite well together in the mic locker. The newer Neumanns tend to be on the cleaner side, and Soundelux has some nice character that can counter that. Jules, don't feel disappointed in your decision, if you are getting great tones, then there you go. The Soundelux mics aren't going to be "better", just different....hell, each mic in the Soundelux line is significantly different from all the others, but there is definitely a common thread through the whole SD line of creamy coloration with their sugary top frequencies (Guiness draft with brownies anyone?).
Old 2nd October 2002
  #5
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
hey nathan, how would u compare the soundelux e47 to the u99 ? also what do u think of rode ntk ? do u think it stacks up to the big boys (neumann, etc...) ?
Old 2nd October 2002
  #6
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Fletcher's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by xqtion
hey nathan, how would u compare the soundelux e47 to the u99 ? also what do u think of rode ntk ? do u think it stacks up to the big boys (neumann, etc...) ?
I'm not Nathan, but this isn't too difficult. The E-47 sounds like a good "old U-47" [probably more so than like 85% of the U-47's in existance], the U-99 sounds like a cross between a U-67 and an M-269c. More open than a U-67, but not as open as an M-269c.

As for TLM 170's and TLM-193's... I have more use for the TLM-170's than the 193's, but not a whole lot of use for either.

If you're looking for something along the lines of a 47fet, the new Soundelux "ifet7" will probably fit the bill better than the M-147... "groundcontrol" put up a more detailed description of the M-147 v the 47 fet earlier in this thread... go with it.

Best of luck with your search.
Old 2nd October 2002
  #7
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NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
What Fletcher said, and the E47 sounds quite a bit more open than the U47's I have heard which can be a little cloudy (but EQ well), plus you have more than two polar patterns on the E47 which is a hell of a bonus just for changing the frequency response, a U47 only has two patterns....for a $5K+ microphone that kind of blows in my book. The U99 is very open sounding, it's got a lot going on frequency-wise in the high mids and highs...excellent where you want some seriously smooth presence and air. And no, the NTK does not stack up with Neumann or Soundelux. If you can stretch your dollar (or quid) a bit further, the Neumann TLM103 will serve you better IMO.
Old 2nd October 2002
  #8
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mixer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
bang for the buck i love the rode ntk....find myself reaching for it more and more....
Old 2nd October 2002
  #9
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alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by NathanEldred
the Neumann TLM103 will serve you better IMO.
ewww, i wont even touch on of those with a 10foot pole. no personality at all. i'd rather use a sm57
Old 2nd October 2002
  #10
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NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Hey Alpha, are you going to be at AES?
Old 2nd October 2002
  #11
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I've had good luck with the tlm103, but it does depend which pre you use and what the mix needs.
To stretch this thread a bit further have any of you used the Lawson mics? I really like the L47 I have but haven't been able to compare it to a real neumann or the Soundelux.
The Lawson 251 for $2500 and their fet is $999 the price is right but I haven't heard them.Thanks
Daniel
Old 3rd October 2002
  #12
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mixer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk


ewww, i wont even touch on of those with a 10foot pole. no personality at all. i'd rather use a sm57
hmm...maybe they sound different in n.c.
Old 3rd October 2002
  #13
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alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by mixer


hmm...maybe they sound different in n.c.
i dunno... i used them in DC for a bit... just didnt like it at all. i dont like a lot of the modern neumanns. and the older ones i have come across have been hit or miss.

they just arent what i want to use in a mic.
Old 3rd October 2002
  #14
Gear Addict
 
mixer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i can tell you one thing about the rodes that even each ntk sounds different ...i auditioned 6 before i found one to purchase...i used one in l.a. i liked and when i got home purchased one and it didn't sound the same.....i am lucky that i have a good relationship with a dealer and they let me take a few home....and found one with the sound i wanted....i also find the same thing with the new neumans and akgs...seems that consistancy is a problem these days.....especially with mics....
Old 4th October 2002
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by FOURTHTUNZ

To stretch this thread a bit further have any of you used the Lawson mics? I really like the L47 I have but haven't been able to compare it to a real neumann or the Soundelux.
We just had a Lawson L47MP, Elux 47 and a M149 in my studio. IMHO The Lawson and the Elux 47 sound so similar we had a hard time picking each out and the M149 was a big contrast (big and bright). For the price we chose the Lawson, you can have 2 of them for the price of the Elux 47.
Old 4th October 2002
  #16
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by 5150MP


We just had a Lawson L47MP, Elux 47 and a M149 in my studio. IMHO The Lawson and the Elux 47 sound so similar we had a hard time picking each out and the M149 was a big contrast (big and bright). For the price we chose the Lawson, you can have 2 of them for the price of the Elux 47.
I was hoping you'd say that! I have the LawsonL47mp, its not always my first choice for male vox, but for many other things.
How long did you have to wait for theL251?
Thanks
Daniel
Old 4th October 2002
  #17
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by FOURTHTUNZ


I was hoping you'd say that! I have the LawsonL47mp, its not always my first choice for male vox, but for many other things.
How long did you have to wait for theL251?
Thanks
Daniel
Whoops should have read that closer! Anyway, I want to hear the L251!
Daniel
Old 4th October 2002
  #18
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
hello ! can any of u who own lawson l47mp elaborate more on it, it's so hard to find ppl who own them. also fourthtunz, what character male vocals would u not use it on ?
thanks
Old 4th October 2002
  #19
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by xqtion
hello ! can any of u who own lawson l47mp elaborate more on it, it's so hard to find ppl who own them. also fourthtunz, what character male vocals would u not use it on ?
thanks
Well as I mentioned I don't have many upper tier mics,but I love the L47mp on acoustic stuff,have used it as a room mic and liked it, love it on most female vocals but for certain male vox it sounds great but doesn't have quite enough bottom and top at the same time for my liking but this again is certain rock singers. I would like to try it with a vipre and will be using it with a lunchbox next, so that will be different, take care
Daniel
Old 4th October 2002
  #20
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
thanks fourthtunz, by the way what pres r u using the lawson w/ right now ? also someone
mentioned they had hard time hearing the difference between the lawson l47mp n the soundelux e47 which makes sense 'cause they r both modeled after the same mic. if this is true it would be awsome because there is big price difference between the two. i'm going to be doing a project that involves a male singer (tenor) n the music style's gonna be urban sou. i'm shopping for the right mic but because of my location it's damn hard to audition different mics. only mic i have right now is the rode ntk n i'm kinda thinking that i need a higher quality mic. shed me some light here everyone. thanks
Old 4th October 2002
  #21
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by xqtion
thanks fourthtunz, by the way what pres r u using the lawson w/ right now ? also someone
mentioned they had hard time hearing the difference between the lawson l47mp n the soundelux e47 which makes sense 'cause they r both modeled after the same mic. if this is true it would be awsome because there is big price difference between the two. i'm going to be doing a project that involves a male singer (tenor) n the music style's gonna be urban sou. i'm shopping for the right mic but because of my location it's damn hard to audition different mics. only mic i have right now is the rode ntk n i'm kinda thinking that i need a higher quality mic. shed me some light here everyone. thanks
Xqtion, I have been using mainly the Avalon 737 and a vintech/summitdcl200 combo. Keep in mind the sound I want may not exist in nature! I like to get the vocal sound with the mic and not use too much eq latter, if I can. If your vocalist has enough beef in the lower register he may sound great with a lawson running in omni or thereabouts. I have an akg414,tlm103,a shureasm32 and the lawson for my vox mics and i'm looking for a few others for some flava-flave
Daniel
Old 5th October 2002
  #22
Gear Addict
 
mplancke's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by mixer
bang for the buck i love the rode ntk....find myself reaching for it more and more....
I found the NTK to be hyped as hell (crunchy with some tizzy stuff) with very little midrange resoultion. I couldn't think of very many applications for it and promptly returned it. A friend of mine owns a pair and likes them as OH's, although he's recently said he wants to get rid of them. Can't say I blame him.

yuktyy
Old 6th October 2002
  #23
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groundcontrol's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
ditto above post re: dfegad the NTKtut
Old 6th October 2002
  #24
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2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I'm a BIG fan of the Lawson L47MP. It's never been beat out for male vocals for anything I've done. I've compared it to the Soundelux U99 and U195 as well as many others, and I just love the L47. The U99 and U195 are great as well not better or worse, I just prefere the L47 as my personal preference.
Old 6th October 2002
  #25
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
hello , can u be more specific as to why u like the lawson l47mp better than u99 ? i'm planning on purchasing a mic n i've sort of narrowed it down to these two. thanks
Old 6th October 2002
  #26
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Double ditto dfegad NTK. The only thing I use it on is male screaming vocals. Its so damn crunchy they cut thru very well. But anything meant to sound smooth and natural..... <puke>
Old 6th October 2002
  #27
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Coldsnow
I'm a BIG fan of the Lawson L47MP. It's never been beat out for male vocals for anything I've done. I've compared it to the Soundelux U99 and U195 as well as many others, and I just love the L47. The U99 and U195 are great as well not better or worse, I just prefere the L47 as my personal preference.
Yeah, maybe its just my voice! I really love the L47, just haven't had alot to compare it with, top drawer wise. Which pres are you running? I think I gotta try out a vipre now, people really seem to dig it on here! Have you tried the at4060? Another low buck mic I've been wondering about that and a few others...
Daniel
Old 8th October 2002
  #28
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
To me the U99 has more of an emphasis on the airieness. It is very articulate. The L47 on the other hand has more (and I hate this word) warmth to it. But not warmth in a cheap tube muddy sort of way. Just makes voices stand out and sound great, magical is the only way I can describe it. The U99 would probably be a good mic for country music or maybe pop female vocals because of it's upper end boost (just guessing as I hadn't tried female vocals through any of them). I have tried the 4060 along side it and it was a little more neutral than the U99 but closer to the U99 than the L47. I've given up trying to find a better male vocal mic than the L47 at anywhere near the price. I would,however, like to try Lawson's 251 and the new Stephen Paul when it comes out.
The Vipre is a perfect match for about any mic.
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