Same room, same cables, same speaker position.

I think you could be right about the design, just figured that being a Yam it's a little closer to the sort of opinion you were looking for.

(PS it's rumoured that Nigel Godrich uses or used the p3500s with NS-10s to mix radiohead stuff)

I appreciate it!

Cool, yeah my P2200 will go back to NS10 duties once I decide on a permanent amp for the two15's

Unfortunately it's rather difficult to find comparisons between high end nearfield speakers. Psi and Genelec are documented rather well, the RL 906 and Amphions (apart from this monster-thread here) not so much. Would be interesting to hear them side by side.

the rl906 have been compared to the amphion many times. psi, gens, atc also have been compared quite often by now to the amphion.

audiovisjion have a pair of two18 in his studio permanently.

Really? I must have overlooked them. The only comparison I can find is by TRW, and he only mentioned it on passing. Audiovisjion compared the bigger Geithains, but as far as I'm aware of not the 906. The Rl 906 compared to the Amphion one 15 (or any Amphion, for that)? Nothing that I can find.

You can here them side by side in the UK as KMR in London stock both.

They have a pair of RL906 on permanent demo and also have the Amphion.

iirc people gave the edge to the one15/18 over the rl906

Thanks for this significant alternate view. The air was getting a little thick in here. It certainly does highlight the comparison between the two18 (plus speaker cables and amp) and the Genelec 8351A, especially considering the price relationship which would seem to be at odds with the performance relationship—if only in this case.

Got the two15's in yesterday, I think they sound great with the p2200 but I went ahead and ordered an amp500 anyway since I want to continue to use the p2200 with my NS10's. I'll report back with the differences I hear between the Yamaha and Amphion amps shortly.

Ah finally you are alluding to having actually having made a direct A/B comparison .. So to clarify so there is no confusion, what you are saying is that the above 7 person personal listening impressions, were made through a direct, side by side, balanced level match, exact same material back and forth A/B between the Two 18 and the 8351"s . Yes ?

Thank you, it's for people like you that I am posting here.

The speakers were used in different control rooms at the same day, and then they were brought in the main control room, (not just those 2 pairs but also atcs and others), in order to make final decisions on the tracks by the team etc. Yes the levels were obviously matched.

Two18's were the only ones that you 've felt like you are listening to a box. It was kind of a pseudo 3d image, not as real as when you switched to speakers like the gens or the atc's (50's) that kind of blended with the air of the room. Everyone in the room agreed that those Gen's are the best Genelec model they 've heard.

I personally haven't made a decision yet, I really, really like the Gens but I am so used to my own monitors that I need to give some more thought to it before committing to new speakers.

Some of us are talking about 'what works the best as a tool?', while you seem to be asking 'what sounds best?'. Two different things.

NS10's don't sound attractive but can work as an excellent tool. You probably wouldn't choose them after hearing them for a short time either.

We all have our own taste, acoustics and other requirements so perhaps that's why there are so many monitors to choose from. It can also take time to work out what tools make you do the right things. Good luck finding your perfect match!

I don't seem to be asking that, If you had read my previous post you would have noticed that I am not looking for a good sounding monitor. I am not sure what kind of professional would look for pretty sounding monitors unless you make tracks for fun and send them to your friends.

Actually a very famous bigshot engineer told me just the oposite. Monitors definitely SHOULD SOUND GREAT to you, otherwise you will not be able to make great sounding music.

It is not important what monitors you use, it is important that the speakers you use sound great to you with the music you take as a reference. Only when they sound great with the music you love, you will be able to mix your material to sound like the reference.

It is not easy to teach our brains to compensate. It is much easier to only focus them to make something sound better. Your monitoring therefore must sound good with the material you like if you want to achieve similar result to your reference recordings.

So this "monitors shouldn't sound great" statement definitely is one of the biggest BS statements of all time.

IMHO NS10s sound super good to me with the majority of the rock music and 80ies music overall...and it is not difficult to answer why is that. Probably because most of these material was mixes with them. Therefore it is also very easy for me to mix rock music with NS10s.

If I try to mix modern Top40/EDM on NS10s I fail miserabely all the time. Not because Top40/EDM would sound like crap in general (because this music rocks in clubs, iPhones, iPads, cars), but because the mojority of this music doesn't sound exciting on NS10s...and if something finished doesn't sound exciting with a particular monitor, you can't fool your brain about how exciting mixes you should produce. It is in our nature as a mixer that we want to make things sound as exciting and good as possible.

Genelecs 8351 sound out of this world with all the music I consider great and at the same time they sound very naturally, accurately and with outstanding stereo image and detail. They let me know all the differences between different productions, but they won't judge the music by the type of production (for example: sound great with electronix music, sound ****ty with rock music...).

My only goal when mixing with them is to make things sound as great as possible. If I manage to make something sound even better, it will be even better anywhere. Mixing actually became a pretty easy task for me. When things sound good, like I hear it in my head, I am finished. If music doesn't sound good yet, I know I am not there yet. They also tell about the maximum potential of the material, that is when the recordings are poorly recorded/arranged/produced and when I cannot improve the mix no matter how hard I try....

It is the first monitor where I can mix any type of music without surprises, with great joy and success. And this IMHO is the point of (great) monitoring.

Having and using so many monitors, Tannoys, Focals, Pelonis, Equators, PSI etc all i can say speakers soulf be great in many areas, they not oly shuld sound great to you, but should be a mixing tool (if we talk about mixing)...

the are a great tool , they sound very good but they presnt the music, space and frequencies in a different way.

Most speakers may tell you how they are (how they sound) from listening to them for the first time, and once you work and experience them, they may not tell you much more... Amphions is all about the experience working with them...and there is their best value.... you have to really use them and experience them , not just to listen the tracks thru them.... you can not treat Amphions as any other speakers...otherwise you are missing…. and to experience "working" with them is the only way to know if you like them or not or if are good or not for you.

Thanks for the reply , that seemed to be what you alluding to but I was simply trying to clarify. That is a reasonable comparison if somewhat limited in time exposure, and if that's what you decided then that is completely viable. So at the very least it sounds like someone entertaining purchasing the Two 18's should give the Gens a listen as well . I checked out the 8351A and Two 18's on Sweetwater's web sight and at $4300 ea. on sale $8600 USD for the pair , they are only about $800 US dollars ( plus shipping) more than the Two 18's and Amp 500 combination , so they are roughly in ball park price wise.

Man i was about to pull the trigger on some SCM25s and then heard about these. Damn it

No regrets here on the ATC SCM 25's.
If you work resembles the work of a (audio) doctor, they were just the right prescription in my case!

Amphion and ATC are two different food groups. My Amphions crossover at 1.6 KHz and are two-way, passive. The ATC's are 3-way active and crossover at 380 Hz and 3.5 KHz. Together they catch any hole or peaks in the midrange. Very useful combination. (It's Gearslutz afterall, so you should buy them both.)

I have ATC 25's, ATC 150's and Amphion Two18's. I use them for different purposes. I use the Two18's like most people use NS-10's for mix balance. If the mix works on the Amphions it sounds like heaven on the ATC's. The Amphions are not a super hi-fi experience. They do however provide a smooth phase response that allows for many easy hours of mixing, a concrete stereo field and a clear translation of the midrange. Once I've got a mix going on the Amphions I check them on the ATC's and they lay out everything bare. It seems like once it sounds good on the Amphions then it will pretty much always work on the ATC's.

Please note that I've only heard (and own) the Two18's. But below 80 Hz or so they're a little dicey. There is certainly lots of low end down there but there are peaks and holes in the low range. My room is reasonably solid. So I think it's the Two18's that are the source of this. Glad I have the ATC's to check the subterranean areas.

I wish that the Amphions were more readily available to try out before buying so I could have tried out all the various models. But after purchasing the Two18's on a 30-day approval they were not going anywhere but on some new Sound Anchor stands in my room. The first hour or so I thought I had made a mistake but spending time mixing on them proved them indispensable.

I hope my real-world experience helps you.

.

This hits the nail on the head for my experience using Amphion Two18/One15 -> ATC200's...

@ Jack Weaver
I have the One18 in Sound Anchors but if you want more Low End and better dispersion to fill more your room, I recommend you to Decouple also the Speakers from the base of the Sound Anchors...I am using the Primacustics Recoils and the difference is big...maybe the IsoAcustics are also great ... is not enough to decopuple the stands from the floor because lost of the speaker energy goes dow thru the stands..

Interesting, I noticed that the floor shakes sometimes when i use my two15 loud which means they're not well isolated from the stand.

Any user of the IsoAcustics out there? They look good but I wonder how stable they are.

I use Zaor adjustable monitor stands, I'd like a decoupler that would visually integrate well with those stands and also do a good job of decoupling of course.

I have the bigger ISO acoustics under my two18's and the medium ones under the One15's.

I was shocked at how much it cleaned up the low mids and extended the bottom end. I mean we're talking a 5-10% difference here, but for a couple hundred bucks that's pretty impressive. Way better than recoil stabilizers which have now become glorified paper weights for me

Cheap Sorbothane (example: http://www.amazon.com/Sorbothane-Hem.../dp/B0042U6ZDU - in many variations...) absorb and decouple much better than Iso Acoustics stands.
Test with vibrometer or accelerometer if someone do not believe (or try with hand and feel the vibrations if you do not have equipment).

Sorry in advance for the long winded post. I am posting a review of my recent Amphion experience.

I spent 3 hours with the Amphion range yesterday at Pro Audio LA (highly recommended shop). I brought my Benchmark DAC2 and played a few hours of DSD, MP3 and PCM, using reference material I have been relying on for a awhile now, some for 20 years.

I currently own Barefoot MM27gen2, KH0300+0100sub (from 2003), and 2006 Pelonis Signature Mains (these are his 5way mains that can be tuned to sound like pretty much anything). I used NS10s since the mid 90s but sold them when I got the mm27s, and part of me misses that immediate midrange feedback they gave me. The gen2 emulation feels off to me.

Most of my work these days is done on Barefoots because, despite early fatigue onset if I am not careful, I have so much confidence in what I am hearing thru them. I’ve got them flat (+/- 2 dB @ 1/3 octave) and in phase (one slight deviation) in my room from 20 to 20. It feels like I am working under an electron microscope which is both good and bad, but the results over the years have been overwhelmingly positive by both clients and MEs.

Onto the Amphions: I started listening with the One18 via amp500 and their cable. They immediately produced a nonabrasive, complete and natural image, with nothing poking out. A very usable low end (minus the sub octave) with a top end that was extended and seemingly omnidirectional - I moved around and it pretty much stayed the same which I wasn’t expecting.

Then the Two18 which was pretty much the same response as the One18 but with slightly more kick thunder, a bit more mid range instrument separation, more headroom, and perhaps a gentle entrance into sub octave territory, but nothing definitive. The top end was airy and very spacious. I felt a slight push above 5k on my reference vocals. IMO, this was a usable push and did nothing to take away from the sound of the voice, but it was there nonetheless. I would probably iron that out a little with Trinnov.

Then jumped to the One15/Amp100 and wow what a difference. Compared to the 18s this was a very direct, speaker-to-the-ear sound. Everything is right in front of me. Nothing behind me, nothing behind the speaker, everything is left to right and top to bottom. The usable response was remarkable considering their size - they somehow give me almost everything I need with a massive kick drum. "How the hell is that possible?" I kept asking.

And even more impressive was the stereo imaging and phase. Tight as tight can be. It sounded post Trinnov to me, and in a room that I would rate 6/10 in acoustics.

I then started ABCing between the three speakers using a Dangerous controller, and they are all obviously in the same family. I can see how they would lead one to produce a similar mix using One15, One18, or Two18, with the 18’s improving mix confidence down low.

Then I started to focus on a top end swirl that the One18 and Two18’s had which the slightly drier sounding One15 does not, and it made me wonder how the same tweeter could reproduce different extensions up high. It started to feel like a weird phase thing happening but it was likely the room which obviously wasn’t completely dialed in. Interesting how the 18s revealed the room more, particularly up high.

But back the One15’s which I was gravitating to regardless of price. They truly reminded me of NS10s but just worlds better. The midrange was so available to my ear that every single voice I played thru them sounded completely different. It felt like I could tell what that engineer was hearing while setting the vocal into the mix better on the One15s than I can on the mm27gen2's which deliver FAR more information in comparison. I look forward to getting them side by side in a tuned room.

So even before I got them into my room for 30 days of trial mixing, I can already see why these are big time translaters. Exquisite mids that effortlessly extend up and down in a way the NS10s couldn’t do with a super high end amp or subwoofer.

I chose the One15s for many reasons. IMO, and based on 3 hours of critical listening, they felt like the best bang for the buck, but not by a wide margin. I worry the One18 was flirting too closely with full range (adding the sub makes sense), and the Two18, while almost there as a full range monitor, didn’t quite give me the feeling that I could let go of the mm27Gen2’s just yet.

Again, adding the subwoofer to the Two18 would likely be a different story, but at that total price, one must slow down and look closely at other amazing options before making such a ma$$ive decision.

Thank you guys for leading me to this monitor. I was very impressed! I’ll come back in 30 days and tell you my official verdict.

Yes I have One 18's on Iso Acoustics standing vertical, placed on my Sound Anchors I only occasionally play them loud over say 75 to 85 db but that said , so far stability has not been an issue

@ matskull ... yep stands can absorb lots of energy and with spikes in the floor minimize vibrations in the floor but eats lots of energy....to decouple the speaker from the stand is key!

In my case was a lot better in general, better in low end and even better in dispersion of the sound ... ( better spread of sound in the room)

Yes, touching the stand is a great way to understand if is there vibration or energy going to the stands.

I wonder why yo do not check ed the Two15 if you liked so much the One15?
Would be interesting to know your opinion on them...

Better measure with accelerometer if you dont believe
About spikes old story:
Speaker Spikes and Cones – What’s the point? | Audioholics