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8816 Summing Mixer or 2BUS-LT + 2x 1073LB
Old 27th February 2014
  #1
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
8816 Summing Mixer or 2BUS-LT + 2x 1073LB

after a huge research on summing I decided to get a coloured summing mixer which is Neve, but I noticed that they have the actual colour maker transformer only on the stereo mix buss and nothing is happening with the inputs. so I was thinking that I can get the same colour by putting 2 1073lb's in front of transparent 2bus-lt?
Old 27th February 2014
  #2
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mahasandi's Avatar
 
93 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Hmmm yeah I think that you might be right I haven't used an 8812 I do think the 1073lbs could work on 2buss nicely
Old 27th February 2014
  #3
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🎧 10 years
The only great thing about the 8816 is the stereo width knob used slightly to widen the mix.
Other than that, it's a piece of overpriced *****.
Cheap meters (not illuminated), scratchy pots, no auxes (except if used with the 8804 fader pack), no channel inserts (you have to patch them before the input !), muddy lows, etc... I definitely don't want to touch one anymore.

I wouldn't personally use a 2Bus either. I see no large benefit in using external summing, except if also using Pan / inserts / auxes / groups. Summing is overrated !
Old 27th February 2014
  #4
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Richard Salino's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'll second the above sentiments toward the 8816. I've been using one now for a couple years and the only reason I continue to is for integrating outboard. It's mushy in the bottom, congested overall, and the build quality is sub-par as well.

I haven't used any other summing mixers, so I don't have any suggestions. I will say that the thing sounds nothing like any of the consoles I've worked on. In addition to the 8816, I regularly work on a Sony/MCI 3036 and a Toft ATB; both sound better than the Neve.
Old 27th February 2014
  #5
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ARIEL's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Get the Sum.mation and throw on the neve preamps on the end . You'll have DAW control over the analogue with the neve tone .
Old 27th February 2014
  #6
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🎧 5 years
I had the spl mixdream now I have the dangerous dbox sounds pretty damn good plus tons of features. I wouldn't spend that much money on a summing box not worth it. Your better off spending your money on other outboard gear for color.
Old 27th February 2014
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
either solution would give you a touch of the neve sound.

depends what suits your needs. do you need 2 pres as well? if so go for it. would you rather have 16 track summing and stereo width control? go for that.

i'll say a few things that may or may not help

1. i love my 8816. i think it sounds great and disagree with MOST of the complaints of its SOUND - however it does have the cheapy plastic feel that everyone complains about.
2. i bought an RND MBP after having the 8816 and loving the 8816s width feature. The RND width feature DESTROYS the 8816s. The RND summing mixer has the same width feature - which leads me to believe the RND summing mixer would be a more valuable piece than the 8816- probably better made as well as the RND stuff has a great quality feel and build.
3. One thing to remember about the 8816 is that it also gives you a quality headphone out, talkback mic, and some monitor control (2 sets of moniters, cue mix, etc) the 1073s wouldn't give you that
4. Running your whole mix thru 1073s does sound awesome. I've done it. However, more often than the 1074s I will run my mixes through the Shadow Hills GAMA pres on IRON
Old 27th February 2014 | Show parent
  #8
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ARIEL's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by missioncontrol ➑️
either solution would give you a touch of the neve sound.

depends what suits your needs. do you need 2 pres as well? if so go for it. would you rather have 16 track summing and stereo width control? go for that.

i'll say a few things that may or may not help

1. i love my 8816. i think it sounds great and disagree with MOST of the complaints of its SOUND - however it does have the cheapy plastic feel that everyone complains about.
2. i bought an RND MBP after having the 8816 and loving the 8816s width feature. The RND width feature DESTROYS the 8816s. The RND summing mixer has the same width feature - which leads me to believe the RND summing mixer would be a more valuable piece than the 8816- probably better made as well as the RND stuff has a great quality feel and build.
3. One thing to remember about the 8816 is that it also gives you a quality headphone out, talkback mic, and some monitor control (2 sets of moniters, cue mix, etc) the 1073s wouldn't give you that
4. Running your whole mix thru 1073s does sound awesome. I've done it. However, more often than the 1074s I will run my mixes through the Shadow Hills GAMA pres on IRON
Good infos ! Just a side question , You have the RND MBP , how is it compared to the usual SSL or vs the SH Vandergraph . I also noticed the feel of the neve summer was a little on the loose/platickty side .
Old 27th February 2014 | Show parent
  #9
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mahasandi's Avatar
 
93 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kosty ➑️

I wouldn't personally use a 2Bus either. I see no large benefit in using external summing, except if also using Pan / inserts / auxes / groups. Summing is overrated !
I don't know about overrated by who how much etc.

I do know that external summing has had a huge positive effect for me -
To the op start with a folcrum and some 1073lbs
You can't go wrong you can sell the stuff and do more if you like
what summing is doing for you
never take anyone's word alone on what's worth doing with sound
try stuff out yourself and you'll build your experience and knowledge
Old 28th February 2014
  #10
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
The Neve 8816 sounds amazing. I have used if for about 3 years. If you are just going from digital without outboard, the 8816 is probably not the best option. Check out the Aurora audio summing mixer, or the RND summing mixer. The 8816 is more than just a summing mixer, you can make it into a full on modular mixer with the extensive i/o.

If the build of the 8816 were better, it would probably be one of the best. But the sound is no joke, massive headroom, nice sounding trannys that you can hit hard. The width control is freakin amazing.
Old 28th February 2014
  #11
TLH
Gear Nut
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
I don't agree with the engineers who claim that the 8816 is junk. There were some corners cut, mostly in potentiometer quality, but the sound is certainly Neve. Its like they expanded on the VR's sound. The output is not grainy, rather it like a touch of transformer topology with the VR's IC based output. It is not a magic box, but it does add depth, clarity and headroom to pro tools mixes. Remember also, that the 8816 was designed to be used with the 8803 and the 8804 units, when combined they really make a mix shine. Sum through the 8816, eq with the 8803 on the mix bus and then bounce it off a 33609 JD. That was the idea, and needless to say that WORKS! The 8816 by itself will only be as good as the mix you put through it. Again, the unit was designed to be used with its companion eq and fader board. Make the best pro tools ITB mix you can, then sum it through the Neve stuff. These comparisons of the 8816 without eq and bus compression IMO are not a good comparison. If you buy an 8816 get all of the icing for the cake! What we do is ITB then out of box summing through eq and compression onto mastering tape. We find that the 8816 eq and compression give life, clarity and power to an otherwise good mix. Try using all of the tools and then tell me what you think. By itself, the 8816 is well just a summing mixer.
Old 28th February 2014
  #12
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
I forgot to tell that I already have one 1073lb as vocal pre. So I tested it by running each channel through it. I have made three files using Apogee Symphony A/D/A.

1 ITB Bounce
2 Bounce through Neve into A/D
3 Bounce (without adding outboard) into A/D

I would like you guys to guess which is which and which is better.
Attached Files

A.wav (2.02 MB, 807 views)

B.wav (2.02 MB, 775 views)

C.wav (2.02 MB, 825 views)

Old 28th February 2014
  #13
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kosty's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
A = Neve
B = ITB + AD
C = ITB

I guessed so mainly because A is louder
Old 28th February 2014
  #14
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
One more file to create a little suspense, and I m not going to write what it is. just tell if it is better.
Attached Files

D.wav (2.02 MB, 729 views)

Old 28th February 2014 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kosty ➑️
A = Neve
B = ITB + AD
C = ITB

I guessed so mainly because A is louder
please don't go with loudness, after testing these things I found some major eq differences in these outboards. check the new file I shared 'D'. IMO I like the bottom and roundness in D but some higher frequencies are gone.
Old 28th February 2014
  #16
TLH
Gear Nut
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Do you have 1073's that are not 500 series? You would likely get better results with two original or reissue standard 1073's on a two bus than the LB's. I am sure that you can find some nice racked units through VK or Ebay. The LB's work well for some things, but inserts on the two bus is not the usual way they are used.
Old 1st March 2014 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TLH ➑️
Do you have 1073's that are not 500 series? You would likely get better results with two original or reissue standard 1073's on a two bus than the LB's. I am sure that you can find some nice racked units through VK or Ebay. The LB's work well for some things, but inserts on the two bus is not the usual way they are used.
please put some examples!
Old 3rd March 2014 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
Richard Salino's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TLH ➑️
I don't agree with the engineers who claim that the 8816 is junk. There were some corners cut, mostly in potentiometer quality, but the sound is certainly Neve. Its like they expanded on the VR's sound. The output is not grainy, rather it like a touch of transformer topology with the VR's IC based output. It is not a magic box, but it does add depth, clarity and headroom to pro tools mixes. Remember also, that the 8816 was designed to be used with the 8803 and the 8804 units, when combined they really make a mix shine. Sum through the 8816, eq with the 8803 on the mix bus and then bounce it off a 33609 JD. That was the idea, and needless to say that WORKS! The 8816 by itself will only be as good as the mix you put through it. Again, the unit was designed to be used with its companion eq and fader board. Make the best pro tools ITB mix you can, then sum it through the Neve stuff. These comparisons of the 8816 without eq and bus compression IMO are not a good comparison. If you buy an 8816 get all of the icing for the cake! What we do is ITB then out of box summing through eq and compression onto mastering tape. We find that the 8816 eq and compression give life, clarity and power to an otherwise good mix. Try using all of the tools and then tell me what you think. By itself, the 8816 is well just a summing mixer.
To be clear, you admit the 8816 has some shortcomings in build quality, and then go on to say that without an 8803 and a 33609 (together something like $6k) it's just OK? I would argue that one could bypass the 8816 altogether and just mix through an 8803 and 33609 and be just as happy, perhaps more so.

Personally, for $3700 I want something that's built like a brick ****house and makes an appreciable difference to the sound of my mixes.

If you haven't, try a blind A/B: Calibrate the thing using test tones to as close to unity as you can manage. Pan odd numbered channels left, even numbers right, master output all the way open. Remember, pan law on the 8816 is +3dB at the sides. Then, run two passes of a mix, one using all 16 channels of the 8816 (just split your tracks roughly evenly to stereo pairs) and printed back into the DAW, the other just routed stereo out and back in through your converters without the 8816. Then use an ABX program to test yourself. You might be surprised.

Like I said, I don't think it sounds very good but I keep using it to integrate my outboard. Certainly, a $3700 bus compressor would do FAR more to help the sound of a mix.
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