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1272 Clones
Old 23rd September 2002
  #1
Gear Head
 
kushan_ku's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
1272 Clones

Besides the real thing, what are the differences between all the 1272 clones?

I have the Chandler 1272 and I really love the sound of it...Been looking at Vintech or Brent's stuff.

Anyone have experience side-by-side with the clones? Describe your observations /differences. Thanks!
Old 1st October 2002
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I've tried to get opinions on this , not too much luck!
I've got the vintech and the most I can say right now is that is nice and colorful! I have about 10 other pre types that I've been testing but for me the differences are subtle. I think what I'll end up doing is buying and trying a couple pairs from different makers to check out the sounds,take care
Daniel
Old 2nd October 2002
  #4
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I own a Vintech now and I used to own a Dan Alexander. Honestly the differences between them were pretty subtle. If you want a different sounding pre get something totally different like an API or a Crane Song. If you want something that sounds like a 1272 pick the one that you can afford and like the looks of best and go record some music.
Old 5th October 2002
  #5
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hollywood_steve's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
1272 clones

I also own the Vintech and have used a Brent Averill unit extensively. Neither sound like a real Neve channel strip, but both sound very good and extremely useful. The advantage that I see with the Vintech is price; two complete channels including power supply for $1300. I haven't heard many stereo preamps that offer that kind of useful tone for less than $650/ch. Most of the really desirable "colored" preamps are mighty expensive, so one of the 1272 clones could be a good introduction to not-transparent, good quality preamps.

steve
Old 5th October 2002
  #6
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
The differences sonically between the Averill and Vintech 1272's is subtle enough to ignore in IMO. To me, the Vintech sounds a hint cleaner.

I've heard reports that the build quality of the Dan Alexander 1272 was lacking.

My Vintech 1272 is one solid beast, however. The only thing I don't like is that there are no thumb locks over the mic inputs. You don't get that reassuring click. This is the only preamp I own with that feature omitted.
Old 5th October 2002
  #7
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hollywood_steve's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
1272 clones

If we want to get picky, the only problem that I would mention with my Vintech 1272 is the lack of an IEC power connector; it has a captive AC cord. I like to use little 18" cords in my rack, not have 5 or 6 ft of excess cord knotted together making heat.

steve
Old 7th October 2002
  #8
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Do power cables really generate heat? If so, then maybe I have a good reason to invest in those 18" IEC cords. They're just so freakin' expensive that I haven't done it.
Old 7th October 2002
  #9
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Tim L's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The only time I've come across this is when the cord is badly mismatched for its use. For example, a skinny little lamp lead feeding a pool pump motor. The 18" cords are great for organizing your racks power distro and minimalizing possible leakage... but as a heat concern?
Old 8th October 2002
  #10
Here for the gear
 
Cflat96's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jax
The differences sonically between the Averill and Vintech 1272's is subtle enough to ignore in IMO. To me, the Vintech sounds a hint cleaner.

I've heard reports that the build quality of the Dan Alexander 1272 was lacking.

My Vintech 1272 is one solid beast, however. The only thing I don't like is that there are no thumb locks over the mic inputs. You don't get that reassuring click. This is the only preamp I own with that feature omitted.
Hey Jax,

I have Locks on the inputs of My Dual72. How long ago did you get yours? Speaking of the Vintech,
Supposedly Vintech started using an extra cap' on the second stage of the inputs to make it sound pretty much identical to the X73. I plan on removing it on one of the inputs to compare. Supposedly, Dallas says that w/out the cap' the top end opens up more. But they put it on to get closer to the Neve sound. Has anyone done this?
Old 8th October 2002
  #11
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bassmac's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Dallas had a prototype of of his new box at AES - a "473".

It's four X73 pre's, with hi and low shelving EQ's on each channel, in a 2U box.

Maybe around $3,600 or so, but don't quote me.

BTW: Dallas gave me a demo of his x73 against a Neve 1073, and I couldn't hear any difference.

Old 8th October 2002
  #12
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Now THAT's something I can get excited about. I've had too many experiences tracking where I have the right mic in a good spot and I just want to add a little top or bottom.
Old 8th October 2002
  #13
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drundall's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
Do power cables really generate heat? If so, then maybe I have a good reason to invest in those 18" IEC cords. They're just so freakin' expensive that I haven't done it.
99 cents.
Old 8th October 2002
  #14
Gear Guru
 
NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by bassmac
Dallas had a prototype of of his new box at AES - a "473".

It's four X73 pre's, with hi and low shelving EQ's on each channel, in a 2U box.
Not to mention impedance switching (300 or 1200) on the mic & line input (so it can be airy like the X73 @ 1200 or more thick and solid like the 1272 @ 300, but with a third gain stage for 70db), and a transformer balanced line level input like on the X81 & X73 (I had previously thought the two units didn't have iron on the line inputs, but they do ), so you can run your analog or digital 2 bus through some St Ives tranny's. There will be a non EQ version for a little less cost, and a version with "essential" EQ useful for minor tweaks in the top and bottom with the 1073 sound.
Old 9th October 2002
  #15
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by drundall


99 cents.
Tell me your source now!!!! The only times I've seen short 18" to 3' IEC cables they've been $5 to $8 each.
Old 9th October 2002
  #16
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
The X73 still does not sound like a 1073, St. Ives tranny's or not. The X81 is still the same thing with more EQ points.




Quote:
Originally posted by NathanEldred


Not to mention impedance switching (300 or 1200) on the mic & line input (so it can be airy like the X73 @ 1200 or more thick and solid like the 1272 @ 300, but with a third gain stage for 70db), and a transformer balanced line level input (A first to the Vintech line, which the 1272, X73 and X81 doesn't have) so you can run your analog or digital 2 bus through some St Ives tranny's. There will be a non EQ version for a little less cost, and a version with "essential" EQ useful for minor tweaks in the top and bottom with the 1073 sound.
Old 10th October 2002
  #17
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by sinnerx96


Hey Jax,

I have Locks on the inputs of My Dual72. How long ago did you get yours?
3 years ago. Wierd that mine doesn't have 'em. Maybe they forgot them on mine?
Old 10th October 2002
  #18
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hollywood_steve's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Do power cables really generate heat? If so, then maybe I have a good reason to invest in those 18" IEC cords. They're just so freakin' expensive that I haven't done it.
*****************************************

They do when someone else decides to be helpful and coils up all of the excess length of AC cords behind the racks and velcro's them together like wrapped up mic cables! My main concern is that I have a dozen pieces of outboard in a tight space and I don't need 30 or 40 feet of needless AC cable hanging around back there. I prefer to have AC cords that reach from the back of the gear to the nearest power box, with just a little slack; no need for 8 foot cords when 3ft is more than enough.


steve
[email protected]
Old 10th October 2002
  #19
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
As far as I'm concerned, the Brent Averill 10XX stuff IS a real deal Neve 10XX module, sound-wise...using original 10XX units...except they are racked up horizontally instead of vertically. I do prefer their units with an old, not new, St Yves output trannie, but that's personal taste.

I spent a whole day at their place at couple of years ago, comparing all the units, old vs new trannies, etc. Another way to go is to have, say 8 of them shipped over to test, keep the best two, and return the other 6.

As usual, YMMV...
Old 12th October 2002
  #20
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cashewcupcake's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by drundall


99 cents.

Oh please do tell where you got these cables from!

I've got my cables all velcroed up.
Old 13th October 2002
  #21
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groundcontrol's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I personally cut the IEC cables to just the right lenght and terminate them with a new high quality AC plug. I also use plastic cable ducts screwed to each side of the racks. Very tidy!yuktyy
Old 13th October 2002
  #22
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AudioGaff's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
While at AES, I did listen to the x73 and x81. Dallas had a local rented 1073 pair to compare that were racked with power supplies that had the Mercenary Audio logo on them. They sounded the same to me eq in or out. And while an AES show is a poor place to judge and even if the x73 may not have been exact in the very anal sense, it was close enough to the 1073 to be able to tell that the x73 is great piece of kit at a great price and a VERY useable professional audio tool. My brother (who is an anal picky bastard) was impressed enough that he orderd two x81's as soon as we got home. Dallas seemed to be a very straight up honest and warm guy worthy of doing business with. I hope to own at least one x81 in the near future.
Old 13th October 2002
  #23
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Vintech 473

Old 13th October 2002
  #24
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Ol' Betsey's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Looks pretty sweet...
Old 13th October 2002
  #25
Gear Guru
 
NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by NathanEldred


Not to mention impedance switching (300 or 1200) on the mic & line input (so it can be airy like the X73 @ 1200 or more thick and solid like the 1272 @ 300, but with a third gain stage for 70db), and a transformer balanced line level input (A first to the Vintech line, which the 1272, X73 and X81 doesn't have) so you can run your analog or digital 2 bus through some St Ives tranny's. There will be a non EQ version for a little less cost, and a version with "essential" EQ useful for minor tweaks in the top and bottom with the 1073 sound.

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
The X73 still does not sound like a 1073, St. Ives tranny's or not. The X81 is still the same thing with more EQ points.
It looks like there is some disagreement on this issue, I personally heard identical tones between the units, but of course to each his own. It seems AudioGaff and BassMac hear identical tones between the X73 and 1073 being there in person at AES, but Thrillfactor has heard something different. ThrillFactor, what type of a/b comparison did you do between Dallas' unit and the 1073's that you had, and what were the fundamental/qualifiable differences that you heard? A few of the 1073's that I have heard sound somewhat different from each other, and that there have been nice stories about guys thinking they had 1073's and in the actual box were 10% of the remnents of what actually consists of a 1073. So if anyone does do a comparison at home make sure it's from a qualified rental house or dealer. My $.01
Old 14th October 2002
  #26
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Again, I think the age of the St Ives makes a difference as well.

It's not too hard to open up a box and see if it's an original Neve module, after you've seen a few of 'em. It's also pretty easy to see which parts are 30 years old and which parts are new or have been recently replaced.
Old 14th October 2002
  #27
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drundall's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by faeflora



Oh please do tell where you got these cables from!

I've got my cables all velcroed up.
The 99 Cent Store! Their stock varies. I think mine are 2 feet.
Old 14th October 2002
  #28
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Hi Nathan,

I've actually been using them(X73) since they first came out. I was one of the people that actually suggested that they change the gain on the original units so you could use them with ribbon mics. I am one of their guinea pigs here in NYC. I have used the X73(actually 4 of them) a bunch of times in every way shape or form(except the Mix buss). The first thing I noticed was that the pre sounded identical to their 1272 unit. Now maybe I am kinda biased about it because I never really dug it for certain things(except kicks and bass). I always thought that Averill's 1272 was brighter sounding(great on vocals and guitars) and the Vintech was the opposite. So that turned me off right away. I was hoping for something different, its hard to explain what a true Neve unit does to a signal...it just does it(With all due respect sometimes good and sometimes not). Now i know they claim that they have extra EQ points on it, but even the ones that are the same on a normal 1073 don't mesh as well as the original(I've actually had side by side at times my 1073/a pair of 1081's and the X73's and again their is no comparison). I mainly use my Neve gear while mixing(i don't track anymore) and my ears are partial to how they distort when I drive them with digital signals. The X73 just doesn't hold up as well. I still use them from time to time(hey they are in the studio). To this day I still have problems figuring out when is the EQ engaged or not, or is the 48V on?(I know that's for another day. Thank god for the assistants!!).


Quote:
Originally posted by NathanEldred





It looks like there is some disagreement on this issue, I personally heard identical tones between the units, but of course to each his own. It seems AudioGaff and BassMac hear identical tones between the X73 and 1073 being there in person at AES, but Thrillfactor has heard something different. ThrillFactor, what type of a/b comparison did you do between Dallas' unit and the 1073's that you had, and what were the fundamental/qualifiable differences that you heard? A few of the 1073's that I have heard sound somewhat different from each other, and that there have been nice stories about guys thinking they had 1073's and in the actual box were 10% of the remnents of what actually consists of a 1073. So if anyone does do a comparison at home make sure it's from a qualified rental house or dealer. My $.01
Old 14th October 2002
  #29
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
from what i ahve seen and been told by fellow neve sluts...I met another one locally last week (big ups to ya KINGDOM all da way over in Perth!)60's had gardener transformers.. such as the 1058,1060's..early 70's neves had Marinairres and the later part had St Ives as well... anyone got any more info.????
Who know what was used in the Vseries??? (Kev?)

PEACE
Wiggy
Old 14th October 2002
  #30
Gear Guru
 
NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Hi Nathan,

I've actually been using them(X73) since they first came out. I was one of the people that actually suggested that they change the gain on the original units so you could use them with ribbon mics. I am one of their guinea pigs here in NYC. I have used the X73(actually 4 of them) a bunch of times in every way shape or form(except the Mix buss). The first thing I noticed was that the pre sounded identical to their 1272 unit. Now maybe I am kinda biased about it because I never really dug it for certain things(except kicks and bass). I always thought that Averill's 1272 was brighter sounding(great on vocals and guitars) and the Vintech was the opposite. So that turned me off right away. I was hoping for something different, its hard to explain what a true Neve unit does to a signal...it just does it(With all due respect sometimes good and sometimes not). Now i know they claim that they have extra EQ points on it, but even the ones that are the same on a normal 1073 don't mesh as well as the original(I've actually had side by side at times my 1073/a pair of 1081's and the X73's and again their is no comparison). I mainly use my Neve gear while mixing(i don't track anymore) and my ears are partial to how they distort when I drive them with digital signals.

I wonder if the earlier units were at all different from the units right now currently in production. I know things have evolved a little for Vintech, the capacitor mod on the 1272 from only 6 or so months ago that is now standard issue on that unit, being one example. The newest versions of the 1272 and X73 sound completely different to my ears (from each other), I suspect they may be at different input impedences but I have no way to verify that. It will be interesting comparing them to the new 473 which is 3 gain stages, but has 300 and 1200 ohm impedence (the X73 is 1200). My Brent A 1272 sounds quite a bit darker to my ears than either of the Vintech's, but YMMV there. I use it especially on guitars where I want the nasty high end edge taken off (with a ribbon too). The OSA Lundahl version is really interesting, to my ears it sounds a lot like a Brent A 1272 with a clearer top. The Lundahl's tend to be somewhere in between a Jensen and a Sowter for color.
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