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High end nearfield test
Old 5th October 2022 | Show parent
  #5041
Lives for gear
 
sax512's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 87d18bc ➡️
Can we all hear some of your work?
Do you understand the difference between somebody making art and somebody having a technical understanding of the tools used to make that art?
While I did make some attempts at the former, I'm definitely and mainly an example of the latter type.
Don't confuse the two.
Old 5th October 2022 | Show parent
  #5042
Deleted 87d18bc
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by sax512 ➡️
Do you understand the difference between somebody making art and somebody having a technical understanding of the tools used to make that art?
While I did make some attempts at the former, I'm definitely and mainly an example of the latter type.
Don't confuse the two.
What a total crock.
Old 5th October 2022 | Show parent
  #5043
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 87d18bc ➡️
Can we all hear some of your work?
are you a loudnesswar warrior?
Old 5th October 2022 | Show parent
  #5044
Deleted 87d18bc
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinococcus ➡️
are you a loudnesswar warrior?
no, I'm a bull$hit detector...
Old 5th October 2022 | Show parent
  #5045
Lives for gear
 
sax512's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 87d18bc ➡️
What a total crock.
Really? You mean to tell me you don't understand the difference between, say, a microphone maker and a sound guy? A speaker maker and a mastering engineer?
The post you quoted me on is about a very technical, speaker measurement related matter.
I would argue that this whole thread, given the word "test" is its title, should be about technical, measurement related matters about near field speakers. Alas, many people turn speakers on and listen or mix on them for a while and think they have performed a proper test. But I guess that's another rant I'm not willing to get into right now.

Asking for a sample of my work coming from that is like asking a structural engineer to show you their interior designer skills.
It seems to me you are very confused.
Old 5th October 2022 | Show parent
  #5046
Lives for gear
 
sax512's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 87d18bc ➡️
no, I'm a bull$hit detector...
If that were true you would argue my technical points, instead of asking for an unrelated thing to disprove them.
It's called red herring. Look it up..
Old 5th October 2022 | Show parent
  #5047
Deleted 87d18bc
Guest
You're right, how could I not see it before?

You're a genius.

So sorry to even remotely put your knowledge, experience, and authority on this subject matter to question.

Best of luck dude!
Old 5th October 2022 | Show parent
  #5048
Deleted 87d18bc
Guest
I just looked up red herring (as I surely never heard that before), thank you so much for instilling more of your superior intelligence upon me. I'm not worthy, truly.
Old 5th October 2022 | Show parent
  #5049
Lives for gear
 
sax512's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I'm sorry.. Were you trying to make a point?
What was it? I must have missed it
Old 11th October 2022 | Show parent
  #5050
Gear Head
 
Hi,

I am looking for nearfield monitors with the "best" midrange i can afford. Looking for something that translate everywhere. Could be active or passive.
I am interested by Quested (V2104 vs S6R vs S7R), ATC (20PSLMK2 vs SCM12), Geithain (RL906 vs MO-1), Auratone, and BBC style monitors LS3/5a (Striling V3, Falcons Gold Badge, Harbeth PS3XD, Graham audio)

Any advices/thoughts/opinion?

Zak
Old 11th October 2022 | Show parent
  #5051
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zagamouel91 ➡️
Hi,

I am looking for nearfield monitors with the "best" midrange i can afford. Looking for something that translate everywhere. Could be active or passive.
I am interested by Quested (V2104 vs S6R vs S7R), ATC (20PSLMK2 vs SCM12), Geithain (RL906 vs MO-1), Auratone, and BBC style monitors LS3/5a (Striling V3, Falcons Gold Badge, Harbeth PS3XD, Graham audio)

Any advices/thoughts/opinion?

Zak
One thought would be if you want the mids undisturbed, get something without a crossover in those mids. In other words something based around a full range driver or a 3 way design.
Old 11th October 2022 | Show parent
  #5052
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 ➡️
One thought would be if you want the mids undisturbed, get something without a crossover in those mids. In other words something based around a full range driver or a 3 way design.
Thanks for sharing your thought ! sounds logical indeed, i didn't think about it... then from my list, the best would probably be a pair of Auratones; maybe with a Bryston 2.5B SST3 Cube pro ?

Ps: I already own a pair of DMAX audio that i love for the full range, but i need an analog pair for my studio B, midrange focused
Old 11th October 2022 | Show parent
  #5053
Lives for gear
 
sax512's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zagamouel91 ➡️
Thanks for sharing your thought ! sounds logical indeed, i didn't think about it... then from my list, the best would probably be a pair of Auratones; maybe with a Bryston 2.5B SST3 Cube pro ?

Ps: I already own a pair of DMAX audio that i love for the full range, but i need an analog pair for my studio B, midrange focused
How about another pair of DMAX with an EQ that lets you focus on the midrange?
Old 11th October 2022 | Show parent
  #5054
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sax512 ➡️
How about another pair of DMAX with an EQ that lets you focus on the midrange?
It's a good idea, I am already quite often filtering them with the Lyra 2 software! but I miss the analog sound .. it's hard to explain but i can sometimes feel the DSP in DMAX
I had Quested S7R and i miss this warm vibe from pure analog
Old 11th October 2022 | Show parent
  #5055
Gear Head
 
I think I will go Auratones!

Now, the active version ?
or the passive one with Bryston amp ?
Which one would be the most detailed/ revealing?

Thanks

Zak
Old 11th October 2022 | Show parent
  #5056
DAH
Lives for gear
 
DAH's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zagamouel91 ➡️
I think I will go Auratones!

Now, the active version ?
or the passive one with Bryston amp ?
Which one would be the most detailed/ revealing?

Thanks

Zak
I work with a single Fostex 6301b (Fet amplifier), but you need to put it about 90 degrees to the side to get the flat mids/highs balance.
Old 12th October 2022 | Show parent
  #5057
Lives for gear
 
sax512's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zagamouel91 ➡️
It's a good idea, I am already quite often filtering them with the Lyra 2 software! but I miss the analog sound .. it's hard to explain but i can sometimes feel the DSP in DMAX
I had Quested S7R and i miss this warm vibe from pure analog
You could apply the same EQ approach to any speakers you like.
In general, I think that the suggestion of using a wide band single driver, eliminating the crossover right in the middle of the band of your interest, was a very good one.
Hence the suggestion of another pair of DMAX.

Personally, if you don't like the DMAX that much, I'd still get something that, once the EQ is removed, gives you a full range sound or as close to that as possible.
Old 12th October 2022 | Show parent
  #5058
Gear Nut
 
nambams's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zagamouel91 ➡️
Hi,

I am looking for nearfield monitors with the "best" midrange i can afford. Looking for something that translate everywhere. Could be active or passive.
I am interested by Quested (V2104 vs S6R vs S7R), ATC (20PSLMK2 vs SCM12), Geithain (RL906 vs MO-1), Auratone, and BBC style monitors LS3/5a (Striling V3, Falcons Gold Badge, Harbeth PS3XD, Graham audio)

Any advices/thoughts/opinion?

Zak
I have Auratone,and I have NS10M and NS10M Pro (like the Studio). Each is great for midrange but with different voicing.

I recently compared SCM12 and SCM20ASL and was blown away by the active 20s. Even though the amplification is different, I'm planning to get the 20 passive. The midrange dome grafted on to woofer sounds very articulate and the tweeter is nicer than the 12.

You might also consider One15 if you like metallic drivers.

My research on BBC style speakers seems to indicate that they are more pleasant than accurate but the thin cabinets resonate at higher spl. Apparently ATC operates well at high spl.

Auratone is still pretty amazing.

For something tiny, I was quite impressed hearing Focal shape 40. The flax cone was nice and snappy.
Old 13th October 2022 | Show parent
  #5059
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nambams ➡️
I have Auratone,and I have NS10M and NS10M Pro (like the Studio). Each is great for midrange but with different voicing.

I recently compared SCM12 and SCM20ASL and was blown away by the active 20s. Even though the amplification is different, I'm planning to get the 20 passive. The midrange dome grafted on to woofer sounds very articulate and the tweeter is nicer than the 12.

You might also consider One15 if you like metallic drivers.

My research on BBC style speakers seems to indicate that they are more pleasant than accurate but the thin cabinets resonate at higher spl. Apparently ATC operates well at high spl.

Auratone is still pretty amazing.

For something tiny, I was quite impressed hearing Focal shape 40. The flax cone was nice and snappy.
Yeah SCM20PSL seem to be something... but i heard the DMAX are even better so.. I would probably go Quested h108 instead, I miss the velvet vibe from those Morel tweeters !!

BBC style speakers seem to be very overpriced today also

I heard bad things about Focal, i am a bit skeptikal with this brand now, but maybe they improved with the new SOLO6 ST6?, the focus mode seems interesting to focus on the midrange, what do you think? how is the midrange with Focal?

How would you describe that difference about the midrange between NS10 and Auratone ? and if you had to keep one, which one?
the advantage from Auratone i see is the no crossover single driver
Old 4th November 2022 | Show parent
  #5060
Gear Head
 
Any experience to share about Kirsch Audio? the SQ5

and Sky Audio Verdade?
Old 11th November 2022
  #5061
Lives for gear
 
sax512's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Excited to go check these out tomorrow at Capital Audiofest.
They check a few boxes of how a good near field should be designed, in my opinion. Although, from the looks of it, they may actually have been voiced for far field.
https://www.hifipig.com/mofi-electro...-loudspeakers/
Old 11th November 2022 | Show parent
  #5062
Lives for gear
 
sirjuxtable's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sax512 ➡️
Excited to go check these out tomorrow at Capital Audiofest.
They check a few boxes of how a good near field should be designed, in my opinion. Although, from the looks of it, they may actually have been voiced for far field.
https://www.hifipig.com/mofi-electro...-loudspeakers/
Interesting design. What makes you think they are voiced for far field? Also, in general, how would you voice far field and nearfield speakers differently? Thanks in advance - I always learn something from these discussions.
Old 11th November 2022 | Show parent
  #5063
Lives for gear
 
sax512's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjuxtable ➡️
Interesting design. What makes you think they are voiced for far field? Also, in general, how would you voice far field and nearfield speakers differently? Thanks in advance - I always learn something from these discussions.
The fact that the pics seem to be taken in a big listening room, but that could be misleading.
As for the difference in voicing, in near field the net effect of the room would have to be included in the direct response, since there's no (or very little) reflections at the listening position.
Old 12th November 2022 | Show parent
  #5064
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zagamouel91 ➡️
Any experience to share about Kirsch Audio? the SQ5

and Sky Audio Verdade?
I´m also really interested in the Kirsch Audio SQ5.
If anyone has heard them please let us how they perform as small mixing tool!!
:-)

I had the Sky Audio Verdade 2 one week for a demo here in my room.
They are good and honest speakers. Relatively flat, smooth and unhyped, but for the asking price I thought there are some other contenders maybe more interesting.
Old 13th November 2022 | Show parent
  #5065
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sax512 ➡️
The fact that the pics seem to be taken in a big listening room, but that could be misleading.
As for the difference in voicing, in near field the net effect of the room would have to be included in the direct response, since there's no (or very little) reflections at the listening position.
What did you think of them? The Hi-fi crowd doesn’t like that they’re made in China. But is this speaker for studio use at all?

There’s also this scandal about MoFi claiming the vinyls they are selling are all analog with no digital conversion going on - or something of the like.

Maybe that’s not a bad thing for the company because it’s creating a lot of noise (and I’m helping….)
Old 13th November 2022 | Show parent
  #5066
Lives for gear
 
sax512's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by InPhazor ➡️
What did you think of them? The Hi-fi crowd doesn’t like that they’re made in China. But is this speaker for studio use at all?

There’s also this scandal about MoFi claiming the vinyls they are selling are all analog with no digital conversion going on - or something of the like.

Maybe that’s not a bad thing for the company because it’s creating a lot of noise (and I’m helping….)
I can confirm they are intended for far field. They sounded balanced when listening to them from the other end of the room (which was also on the smaller side).
I wish I had had more time with them. I wasn't lucky enough to sit in the center of one of the two rows of seats, so that skewed my listening experience quite a bit. But I can attest that the soundstage was not too bad from where I was sitting (next seat on the left side, trying to lean towards the center and not piss off the guy to my right too much ).
I was impressed by the very tight bass. All in all, a very nice, pleasant sound. But I'm a near field guy. I really can't get past what the room does to the sound after listening to near field for years. I missed the precision I'm used to at home.
To be fair, I only came close to that (not too close, thought) with a couple of the other single driver or concentric driver based speakers. And these would probably have been on top of that list if I had sat in the center like I did for all other speakers.
All in all these were some of the best I heard, but I would need to spend more time with them and listen to songs I am familiar with.
On the plus side I came out of there with a couple new test songs to try.
Old 14th November 2022
  #5067
Lives for gear
 
sax512's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Little update on these speakers. I was in the area again today and I decided to stop by to check them out properly.
This time I was able to sit in the first row dead center. Obviously the imaging was much better.
I was only able to have them play one song that I am familiar with and has tons of spatial cues, being binaurally recorded. Pinpoint accuracy in the 3D space is very important to me, so the following may hold more or less weight based on your own priorities.
While when listening to that song with my speakers at home I feel like I am inside the recording space, these speakers did a very good job at recreating the acoustics of that space in and around the speaker plane, but still limited to the front of the room. I didn't feel sounds all around me, but if you imagine the soundstage as a sphere, with my nearfields at home I am inside of it, while with these speakers it felt like I was looking at the sphere from the outside. It was still a sphere, though, which is a lot more than can be said about many other speakers, regardless of price.
To be fair I think that not many other speakers can do better in far field as far as sounds localization, with the exception of well built single drivers, which have their own set of problems when placed in far field.
I'm not sure the above makes immediate sense but it's the best I can describe it.

A note about playing these near field. I moved close to them and I was surprised to notice that the balance, while definitely shifting towards the brighter side, wasn't totally unlistenable as sometimes happens with other speakers. Part of it is because the tweeter uses the woofer as a waveguide and you get less directivity in the highs as compared to other types of speakers. Which means that when you are in the room these speakers don't rely on a on-axis "hot", directional tweeter to make highs sound balanced into the room. You get quite a bit of highs reflected from the room.
At least that's part of what I think is happening.
The other thing is that I got near them but off-axis, and that smooths things down in the highs, no matter the waveguide.
So I think you could still use these in near field, if you toe them out and don't have them pointing straight to your head, and maybe shelf the highs down a little bit.
Or you could equalize them with DSP, which is the best thing to do in my opinion. These speakers get quite a few things right with their physical design, so you wouldn't be trying to fix the unfixable by using DSP correction.
Old 15th December 2022 | Show parent
  #5068
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Galt ➡️
A grammatical observation: a lot of people use "it's" in the possessive case (as in "it's population") when it should be "its" (as in "its population"). And yes, this is counter-intuitive; after all the hallmark of possessive is that ' (as in "Joe's lunch"). The problem is "it's" is an abbreviation of "it is". And yes, it's very understandable why people make the mistake. I just thought you might like to know.
So finally after all these years iOS autocorrect is actually fixing these errors. However 95% of the time it wants to make you sound like a teenager.
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