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High end nearfield test
Old 4th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4741
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sax512 ➡️
Is this true? Even if so, you wouldn't believe the BS some professionals spread around.
That was sarcasm. I’m a “credit card sailor”. Isn’t the forum based around gear though?

I have learned a lot here, but people can be so stubborn, with such tunnel vision, that a “quick google search” will be believed over facts. Better not mention a top level mix being done with all ITB with Apple headphones

I guess headphones are as nearfield as it can get haha
Old 4th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4742
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Galt ➡️
More and more I'm starting to realize I made a disastrous decision buying the Trinnov.
Don't worry, you did a right choice. Trinnov was made for someone like you.
Old 5th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4743
Lives for gear
 
sax512's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by InPhazor ➡️
That was sarcasm. I’m a “credit card sailor”. Isn’t the forum based around gear though?

I have learned a lot here, but people can be so stubborn, with such tunnel vision, that a “quick google search” will be believed over facts. Better not mention a top level mix being done with all ITB with Apple headphones

I guess headphones are as nearfield as it can get haha
Sorry.. My sarcasm-dar must have gotten damaged from all the posts by our good friend Dino
Old 5th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4744
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by momomel ➡️
Don't worry, you did a right choice. Trinnov was made for someone like you.
It's wonderful to receive your approbation. Now I'll be able to sleep soundly tonight!
Old 5th December 2021
  #4745
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Trinnov Measurements of Barefoot mm12

First, amplitude at listening position; secon the phase response; third the impulse response; all at 1/24 octave resolution so there's nowhere to hide
Attached Thumbnails
High end nearfield test-screenshot-10-.jpg   High end nearfield test-screenshot-11-.jpg   High end nearfield test-screenshot-12-.jpg  
Old 5th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4746
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Trinnov measurements of Hedd Type 30 Mk 1

Same order as above but the boost on the amplitude correction was set at 3dB, rather than 6dB like it was on the mm12.
Attached Thumbnails
High end nearfield test-screenshot-13-.jpg   High end nearfield test-screenshot-14-.jpg   High end nearfield test-screenshot-15-.jpg  
Old 5th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4747
Lives for gear
 
sax512's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by momomel ➡️
Don't worry, you did a right choice. Trinnov was made for someone like you.
I'm fascinated by this luddite attitude.
What do you think comes out of a "manual" equalizer if not a version of the input signal that is modified in amplitude and phase?
What do you think happens between the before and after Trinnov signal path?
Is your aversion towards Trinnov due to a general distrust for DSP, or just Trinnov specifically?
Do you think a traditional equalizer is more accurate than DSP?
Or that your ears are more accurate than a measurement mic?
Is it the price?
Is it that DSP can't fix everything, so you don't even bother to try fixing what's fixable?
Is it that digital is evil and you want as much of your audio chain as possible to stay analog?
So many questions a simple statement like this can prompt in my mind..
Old 5th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4748
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Galt ➡️
First, amplitude at listening position; secon the phase response; third the impulse response; all at 1/24 octave resolution so there's nowhere to hide
The ‘after’ measurements are just what Trinnov thinks will happen, not necessarily what is happening.

For example- Measuring post-calibration with REW/U-Mik 2, I decreased the maximum attenuation set in my Trinnov.
Old 5th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4749
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sax512 ➡️
I'm fascinated by this luddite attitude.
What do you think comes out of a "manual" equalizer if not a version of the input signal that is modified in amplitude and phase?
What do you think happens between the before and after Trinnov signal path?
Is your aversion towards Trinnov due to a general distrust for DSP, or just Trinnov specifically?
Do you think a traditional equalizer is more accurate than DSP?
Or that your ears are more accurate than a measurement mic?
Is it the price?
Is it that DSP can't fix everything, so you don't even bother to try fixing what's fixable?
Is it that digital is evil and you want as much of your audio chain as possible to stay analog?
So many questions a simple statement like this can prompt in my mind..
It’s an offensive and straight-up dumb comment.

Sure, Trinnov’s main market is high-end home cinema, no easier buck than selling things to rich people, but there are countless working mixers, producers and media composers (particularly the latter) with Trinnovs in their rooms too. At least in London where I am.
Old 5th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4750
Lives for gear
 
SteelyDani's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 50-pence ➡️
The ‘after’ measurements are just what Trinnov thinks will happen, not necessarily what is happening.

For example- Measuring post-calibration with REW/U-Mik 2, I decreased the maximum attenuation set in my Trinnov.
I don't know what happens with Trinnov, but the curve resulting from the automatic monitor aligment performed with the Neumann MA 1 software applied to a KH 750 + 2 KH 80 set is very similar to that obtained with REW or Sonarworks 4.

They are not identical, but if I compare two measurements made both with REW they are not identical either. Very similar, of course.
Old 5th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4751
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelyDani ➡️
I don't know what happens with Trinnov, but the curve resulting from the automatic monitor aligment performed with the Neumann MA 1 software applied to a KH 750 + 2 KH 80 set is very similar to that obtained with REW or Sonarworks 4.

They are not identical, but if I compare two measurements made both with REW they are not identical either. Very similar, of course.
Same with Trinnov, it's similar. I was tweaking in the +/- 1dB range.

Always useful with Trinnov to zoom in on the graphs also. Anything looks flat on the teeny scale it defaults to!
Old 5th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4752
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by momomel ➡️
Don't worry, you did a right choice. Trinnov was made for someone like you.
Wow. Can I ask again, have you used one?
Old 5th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4753
DAH
Lives for gear
 
DAH's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 ➡️
Wow. Can I ask again, have you used one?
his reply will be you forgot who he is.
Old 5th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4754
Lives for gear
 
sirjuxtable's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Galt ➡️
My theory is that Dino is writing highly erudite, eminently sensible messages in his original language, but then is running them through Google Translate, and out pops this hare-brained gobbleygook. Blame Google, not poor Dino.
I love this theory. I almost want to take him off my ignore list in this new light. Almost.
Old 5th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4755
DAH
Lives for gear
 
DAH's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
sax512 and dinococcus both have been for a long time on my ignore list.
Old 6th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4756
Lives for gear
 
sax512's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAH ➡️
sax512 and dinococcus both have been for a long time on my ignore list.
I don't know if I'll be able to sleep.. :-(
Old 6th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4757
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 50-pence ➡️
Same with Trinnov, it's similar. I was tweaking in the +/- 1dB range.

Always useful with Trinnov to zoom in on the graphs also. Anything looks flat on the teeny scale it defaults to!
Also the 1/3 octave smoothing which is the default setting for the display makes it look much flatter than the 1/24 octave I've chosen. At the default setting you could have a 20dB swing within that 1/3 octave and if the boost and cut cancelled each other out it'd look flat.
Old 6th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4758
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 50-pence ➡️
The ‘after’ measurements are just what Trinnov thinks will happen, not necessarily what is happening.
If nothing changes, the "after" measurements should be accurate. However, two things do necessarily change:
(1) your listening position(s) are not exactly where the measuring microphone was placed;
(2) you're inserting a large, absorbent mass (i.e. you) in the place of the small reflective microphone.
Old 6th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4759
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAH ➡️
sax512 and dinococcus both have been for a long time on my ignore list.
He does not read me but he ogles in secret
Old 7th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4760
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Galt ➡️
First, amplitude at listening position; secon the phase response; third the impulse response; all at 1/24 octave resolution so there's nowhere to hide
Fix your room acoustics first.
Old 7th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4761
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_mixer ➡️
Fix your room acoustics first.
no kidding!
Old 7th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4762
Lives for gear
 
sax512's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_mixer ➡️
Fix your room acoustics first.
Yes, however... This is less and less important the nearer the "near" in "nearfield" gets.
Old 7th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4763
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sax512 ➡️
Yes, however... This is less and less important the nearer the "near" in "nearfield" gets.
I assumed that HEDD Type 30 is more of a midfield monitor. Carry on.
Old 7th December 2021
  #4764
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Room modes and SBIR will still exist no matter how close one sits. Or has anyone used a coaxial sideways pointed at their ears? Like right next to their.. hedd?
Old 8th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4765
Lives for gear
 
sax512's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_mixer ➡️
I assumed that HEDD Type 30 is more of a midfield monitor. Carry on.
It was just an observation, given the name of this thread..
Old 8th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4766
Lives for gear
 
sax512's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by InPhazor ➡️
Room modes and SBIR will still exist no matter how close one sits. Or has anyone used a coaxial sideways pointed at their ears? Like right next to their.. hedd?
Define 'right next'.
I have measured +/- 2/3 dB in the modal zone, with the speakers in totally different rooms (and both mid/small size). One was heavily treated. The other one bare walls.
The problem is when people use speakers in near field that are not designed for driver integration at such close distance. They are in nearfield in regards to direct/reflected sound, but closer than the physical attributes of the speakers themselves allow.
Old 8th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4767
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_mixer ➡️
Fix your room acoustics first.
Don't need to; I have Trinnov. Life is sweet.
Old 8th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4768
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Galt ➡️
Don't need to; I have Trinnov. Life is sweet.
Have you looked at a waterfall graph of your setup with Trinnov before vs after?
Old 8th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4769
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sax512 ➡️
Define 'right next'.
I have measured +/- 2/3 dB in the modal zone, with the speakers in totally different rooms (and both mid/small size). One was heavily treated. The other one bare walls.
The problem is when people use speakers in near field that are not designed for driver integration at such close distance. They are in nearfield in regards to direct/reflected sound, but closer than the physical attributes of the speakers themselves allow.
I was facetious sort of.. at the same time, I wonder if anyone has literally put the speakers right next to their head if it were a coaxial/pointsource, and how it would compare to headphones.

I’m actually learning about listening distance a bit. In another thread, Northwood Acoustics is recommending 1.3-1.4 minimum listening distance for ATC 45’s. I don’t think advice could come from a better source (thanks Dino). I guess near field is traditionally much farther away than what people think of it now days.
Old 8th December 2021 | Show parent
  #4770
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by InPhazor ➡️
Have you looked at a waterfall graph of your setup with Trinnov before vs after?
No. I just listen "before" and "after. Prefer that to looking at graphs, I'm ashamed to admit.
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