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sony c800g -presence
Old 19th January 2013
  #1
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
sony c800g -presence

hi folks,i purchased a sony c800g some days ago and tested it compared to my old u 87 and an neumann m149.im trying to get close to my old sound (my chain was an u87 into avalon sp737 into tt cl1b into ssl aws 900)but just better and found out that the sound of the sony is very different to the 2 neumanns.the main difference is to me that it has a huge high frequency boost at the top and the silbiances seems to be at a higher frequency than at the u87 which has a presence in the high mids that i always liked from 3-6 k.that made the rap vocals very clear and understandable.even with eqing i didnt get the same midrange from the sony.
when i swiched first from the u86 to the m149 it gave me the same trouble but after a while of playing around the result was much better than before.im shure that after some more days i t will be the same with the sony.
my chain at the moment is great river pre into cl1b into ssl aws 900(slight boost at 5 k)compression with 3-4 db with mid ratio,mid attack and fast release
the finished recording sounds in a way better but less clear in the mids than with the neumann.any advices?thanx a lot
Old 19th January 2013
  #2
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Ward Pike's Avatar
 
15 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
If you aren't getting what you want, sell it. Perhaps you NEED more mid-forward microphones whereas the Sony isn't giving you what you need being more scoopy and toppy?
Old 19th January 2013
  #3
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BOWIE's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I think you pretty much described it. These mics sound different. When you want the lush, airy highs, use the Sony. When you want more midrange focus, choose the 87. Doesn't sound like anything is necessarily wrong.
Old 19th January 2013
  #4
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travisbrown's Avatar
 
9 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I've noticed C800s have always been popular with hip hop producers. They are a super clear mic for sure, doesn't seem to have that midrange bite. I'd love to have one.
Old 20th January 2013
  #5
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🎧 10 years
hmm,yes ok-i thought the same,but,when i listen to the productions of eminem,game,kendrick lamar...i expected a much more in the face midrange from the c800g the it actually has.maybe its a matter of mixing.i tested it again today and can say that solo 3 of 4 people liked the neumann more but in the ruffmix it was a whole other story,the sony sit more nicely in the mix and sound more pleasant to my ears.maybe thats the secret....and also it was good for stacking vocals and sync them with vocalign to get a mighty hook.i can post a link to the vocals if anyone want to listen.
Old 20th January 2013
  #6
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🎧 10 years
here the link to the comparison of the sony and neumann
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bta5iqitgw...nn%20pitch.zip
Old 20th January 2013 | Show parent
  #7
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travisbrown's Avatar
 
9 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by low-nien ➑️
hmm,yes ok-i thought the same,but,when i listen to the productions of eminem,game,kendrick lamar...i expected a much more in the face midrange from the c800g the it actually has.maybe its a matter of mixing.
Well, remember you have the curve of the preamp, then EQ, plus any other processing that will shape the sound. What comes out of the mic is just a starting point, not to mention the sound that goes in the mic.

Want a midrange bump? EQ.
Old 20th January 2013
  #8
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🎧 10 years
of cause i know that,since i mix my own productions i know what happens with the signal in processing after recording,but even with extreme boosting i cant get that presence cause its not there.if this is the sound of the sony then i have to take it like that.it just feel strange to push that amount of money and take an uzi to record if u have a sony next to it.that makes no sense to me and i want to experiment as long i neet to to get the sound i want out of it....
Old 20th January 2013
  #9
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🎧 5 years
I think Dre used a neve 1073 in his chain! You also have to remember getting that sound he has was probably from the world class engineers he had working for him. By the way i'm not knocking your skills i'm just saying prob the best ears in the world has worked on Eminems mixes!
Old 20th January 2013
  #10
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🎧 5 years
Personally after listening to you clips i think the u87 sounded better on your voice!
Old 20th January 2013
  #11
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🎧 10 years
actualli its not my voice but on my voice is it similar.geksegqu what does it proof?i dont get it.
Old 20th January 2013 | Show parent
  #12
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by low-nien ➑️
even with extreme boosting i cant get that presence cause its not there.if this is the sound of the sony then i have to take it like that.it just feel strange to push that amount of money and take an uzi to record if u have a sony next to it.
You will never get the sony to sound like a U87. If you want the u87 sound, use a u87. I've used the sony and 251 for years but there are certain voices where another mic works best. It's a thinner brighter mic. I usually do not eq it at all beyond a cut or two. Maybe some roof depending on the voice.
Old 20th January 2013
  #13
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psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thread consolidated from the 2 forums...
Old 20th January 2013
  #14
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🎧 5 years
An important thing to keep in mind about the Sony c800g is the distance from the vocal source that it is placed. In my experience this mic can often sound better 1 foot to 2 feet away from a vocalist. That might sound far but if you are having sibilance issues try to back off this particular mic. It just might give you the results you want without EQ. But also keep in mind that if you back off of it, you will end up hearing a lot more of the room, which means you really need a well tuned and dead space to really make it shine at a distance.
However, when setup correctly, (I use it with a Neve 1084) it is one of the best mics I've ever used for a vocal.

Mariah Carey, the Sony c800g, it's her favorite mic. Howard Benson used it on rock records like Daughtry and top hits by The All American Rejects, look it up in Mix Magazine or Sound on Sound. Even country acts like The Civil Wars have used it recently with great success. A lot of people use it for rap, and yes, spoken vocals will sound clear if you are RIGHT ON TOP of the mic. But people need to know how to setup this mic, ..distance, axis, preamp, to really use it to its full potential.
Old 21st January 2013
  #15
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🎧 10 years
yep i noticed that it is very picky with the room,in my regie you hear the whole room in the recording,even if the room is threated with primacoustics setups.my vocal booth is a studiobox,normally for radiorecordings,all the walls are not parallel to each other.i experiment a lot with the placement of mics in there and it always change.now i have it so that i sing close to the windowside of the booth ,im in the middle of the room and behind me are 2 big hofa-basstraps in the corners an some absorbers in the middle,i had the whole room threated with primacoustics stuff before but changed it back cause it was too dead.sometimes i think it sound a bit too boxy in there cause of its small size but its better then the big room.
for the mic:i have one question about it,i ordered it from a serious reseller in europe,but,since it came from the states...is it possible that sombody in the selling chain manipulated anything?for example,replacing some good parts with less good ones?
it was just a thought i had cause somebody told me about the do it with expencive neumanns.....
Old 21st January 2013
  #16
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by low-nien ➑️
yep i noticed that it is very picky with the room,in my regie you hear the whole room in the recording,even if the room is threated with primacoustics setups.my vocal booth is a studiobox,normally for radiorecordings,all the walls are not parallel to each other.i experiment a lot with the placement of mics in there and it always change.now i have it so that i sing close to the windowside of the booth ,im in the middle of the room and behind me are 2 big hofa-basstraps in the corners an some absorbers in the middle,i had the whole room threated with primacoustics stuff before but changed it back cause it was too dead.sometimes i think it sound a bit too boxy in there cause of its small size but its better then the big room.
for the mic:i have one question about it,i ordered it from a serious reseller in europe,but,since it came from the states...is it possible that sombody in the selling chain manipulated anything?for example,replacing some good parts with less good ones?
it was just a thought i had cause somebody told me about the do it with expencive neumanns.....
I highly doubt it was modified or altered, in my experience this is not a mic that gets modded or altered very often. You may want to check what tubes are in it, as those sometimes go out and could be replaced. There are also tubes in the power supply, you can see them glowing through the ventilation on the power supply. Take my advice, use it with a Neve style pre and back off of it. Then let me know how it sounds.
Old 21st January 2013
  #17
Gear Guru
If it doesn't work on your voice it just doesn't work. I tried to use the u87 and on my voice it didn't work at all. The c800g is perfect on my voice. You have to remember that someone's voice is so important! It's not in the mixing, it's about matching the right mic with the right source.
Old 21st January 2013
  #18
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago ➑️
If it doesn't work on your voice it just doesn't work. I tried to use the u87 and on my voice it didn't work at all. The c800g is perfect on my voice. You have to remember that someone's voice is so important! It's not in the mixing, it's about matching the right might with the right source.
That's the problem with the way a lot of young people making records these days think. They just put up a mic, sing into it, and either love it or hate it. They don't think about distance from the capsule, axis, polar pattern, mic pre, room. There is quite an art to making sense of all that science involved. Certain mics need to be finessed a bit both from the engineer and the singer. The c800g is a powerful tool, one that I could make work on just about any singer.
Old 21st January 2013 | Show parent
  #19
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpKillerCable ➑️
The c800g is a powerful tool, one that I could make work on just about any singer.
Same
Old 21st January 2013 | Show parent
  #20
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chrisdee's Avatar
 
9 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by low-nien ➑️
here the link to the comparison of the sony and neumann
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bta5iqitgw...nn%20pitch.zip
Just listened to the clips. I preferred the c800g by far. In those clips It sounds more natural (less hyped frequencies) while the u87 sounds like to little low and high frequencies and to much mid frequencies.

Makes me want the Sony even more no.
Old 21st January 2013
  #21
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psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpKillerCable ➑️
That's the problem with the way a lot of young people making records these days think. They just put up a mic, sing into it, and either love it or hate it. They don't think about distance from the capsule, axis, polar pattern, mic pre, room. There is quite an art to making sense of all that science involved. Certain mics need to be finessed a bit both from the engineer and the singer. The c800g is a powerful tool, one that I could make work on just about any singer.
I disagree. I think the c800g is amazing on some, terrible on others.

But just my experience. Mic pres don't tend to make inappropriate mics work as well as just changing the mic.
Old 21st January 2013
  #22
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️
I disagree. I think the c800g is amazing on some, terrible on others.

But just my experience. Mic pres don't tend to make inappropriate mics work as well as just changing the mic.
My point was that people new to recording don't do enough to try and make a signal work. And a lot of people who record at home don't have a selection of mics that they can just switch to. They may have just a few, and they need to learn how to get good results in different situations or on difficult singers with a limited selection.
And when they don't get immediate instant results, they come on here to rant about it and complain.

And the mic pre used with this mic can drastically change its sound. A classic Neve versus a transformerless pre will sound like night and day IMO.
Old 22nd January 2013 | Show parent
  #23
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Ward Pike's Avatar
 
15 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️
But just my experience. Mic pres don't tend to make inappropriate mics work as well as just changing the mic.
Therein lies one of the most important statements in this thread. And I'll add another:
The Microphone is 80 - 90% of the sound. The Mic Pre is 10% at most... the right comp and/or EQ is the other possible 10%. People put far too much importance on the microphone preamp when the microphone is almost EVERYTHING!

I had to quickly track an acoustic part this afternoon, in the control room, and out of necessity for speed, I just threw a 102 through an old Aphex 107 preamp. Normally, those things are just for leftovers, but you know what? It really didn't sound that bad at all...it actually sounded really good! Not bad for a $100 pre. LOL
Old 22nd January 2013
  #24
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🎧 10 years
thats what i think,i use an great river on it and everybody speak about the neve 1073.first i thought hmmm ,mayby buying this one but since i didnt noticed a big difference between the avalon an the gr i cant believe that i hear a difference at all on the neve,specially cause the great river is modelled after the neve pre,i think the mic is 90 percent.
actually i work better and better every day with the sony.i remember i had the same hard time to get used to the uzi when i had it new,it seems to bee like that...when i bought my ssl aws 900 the seller told me,first your mixes get worst but after a while when u know what to do it gets better than ever.it seems to be like that ,its just about the experience.
and every gear have its own tricks.
Old 22nd January 2013 | Show parent
  #25
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psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpKillerCable ➑️
My point was that people new to recording don't do enough to try and make a signal work. And a lot of people who record at home don't have a selection of mics that they can just switch to. They may have just a few, and they need to learn how to get good results in different situations or on difficult singers with a limited selection.
And when they don't get immediate instant results, they come on here to rant about it and complain.
That I agree with. Although in this case and IMO, you don't buy a C800G as your sole mic unless it's THE perfect mic for your voice (and you don't ever record anything else with it). Or you have money to burn For the money, you can get 3 or more great mics to give you the variety. The C800G is a boutique mic at a boutique price. It's the mic you buy when you don't need to question the cost; the tool that does a small selection of things very well indeed, but isn't an all rounder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpKillerCable ➑️
And the mic pre used with this mic can drastically change its sound. A classic Neve versus a transformerless pre will sound like night and day IMO.
This I don't agree with as much. "drastic/night and day"? An 87 to SM58 is a "night and day" difference in my book. A Neve to transformerless pre to tube pre is in my book subtle flavours of different. It CAN sound drastically different (eg when both are driven) but that doesn't have to be the case.

Of course, I think the term "night and day" actually means an obvious difference (ie you need no point of reference) whereas many don't seem to think along these lines.

Whilst positioning is important of course, if the only way I could get a good sound on a C800G was by compromising the ambience/room sound of the recording, I'd try another mic that might give me everything. If the sound was close but something not quite right, I might try a different preamp.
Old 22nd January 2013 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by low-nien ➑️
when i bought my ssl aws 900 the seller told me,first your mixes get worst but after a while when u know what to do it gets better than ever.it seems to be like that ,its just about the experience.
and every gear have its own tricks.
You got a c800g and you're not even running it into a Neve 1073, yet you have an Aws 900?!? What kind of gear slut are you? Get an effing grip man.

Just kidding of course, I'm sure it sounds awesome.
Old 22nd January 2013 | Show parent
  #27
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mista min's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago ➑️
You got a c800g and you're not even running it into a Neve 1073, yet you have an Aws 900?!? What kind of gear slut are you? Get an effing grip man.

Just kidding of course, I'm sure it sounds awesome.
Lago... He already posted that he has it going into a Greatriver... that's pretty much in the 1073 fam.
Old 22nd January 2013 | Show parent
  #28
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by mista min ➑️
Lago... He already posted that he has it going into a Greatriver... that's pretty much in the 1073 fam.
It's not, it's not written 1073 on it
Old 22nd January 2013
  #29
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mista min's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago ➑️
It's not, it's not written 1073 on it
Hahaha, funny funny funny. I personally think the GreatRiver is great and loved having one in our studio for the short time we did, but never had a C800G, would be nice ;-)
Old 23rd January 2013
  #30
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago ➑️
It's not, it's not written 1073 on it
But does yours have neve or ams neve written on it?!
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