The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Lexicon PCM ## Andy Wallace Trick
Old 8th July 2006
  #1
Registered User
 
Harley-OIART's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Lexicon PCM ## Andy Wallace Trick

I know how badly I deserve a flogging for even asking this... BUT :

Could someone please PM (assuming u don't want it published) me with the answer to the following question? I have been searching the threads for days now and can't find the original thread that contained the info i seek...

"What Model of Lexicon PCM (blank.blank) does andy wallace use for his (i'll call it -->) 'Input Limiter Trick'. hopefully someone out there catches my drift...

Please someone?

Someone let this full trick slip during a thread last year and I have been trying to dig up that thread ever since. All I remember is how to do the technique and when to use it... i JUST Can't Remeber the Model number. I think it is a PCM60

Anyways... Veterans, care to share with a kid who is working at paying his dues ?

Warmest Regards,
Scott Harloff
Old 8th July 2006
  #2
Harmless Wacko
 
🎧 15 years
https://gearspace.com/board/showpost...5&postcount=46


Best regards,

SM.
Old 8th July 2006 | Show parent
  #3
Registered User
 
Harley-OIART's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thank you Kindly Sir.

P.S. I remebered the "Tribunal" joke all these months, that was what i was using for a keyword during my searches =)

Much Respect,
Scott
Old 12th July 2006 | Show parent
  #4
Registered User
 
Alexi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Any info about reverb units Andy Wallace likes to use out there?



cheers
Old 12th July 2006 | Show parent
  #5
Lives for gear
 
not_so_new's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperman
So Slipperman... about this "trick"...... what is your take on the PCM42 overload thing?

When I read this last year I was pretty interested, that is a new one on me. I would have to go buy a few 42's to test it just wondering if you think it is worth the effort. In your bag of tricks how high is this on the pile? (as we all watch the price of used 42's go through the roof for the next 3 months)

HOHOHO
Old 12th July 2006 | Show parent
  #6
Registered User
 
Alexi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
aren't those pcm42 units pretty expensive already?
Old 12th July 2006 | Show parent
  #7
Registered User
 
Ziggy!!'s Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexi
aren't those pcm42 units pretty expensive already?

yeah... Why do I have a feeling that posts like this cause those prices to rise like they did.
Old 12th July 2006
  #8
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Here is a trick I do because I can't justify spending stupid money on a delay unit that will likely break down sooner than later.

Here are the ingredients:

Distressor
Eventide Eclipse
Neve Portico preamp

When mixing I run the signal I want to delay first into the Portico and hit it really hard which adds some nice thick harmonics and it adds a bit of grain to the tone then I hit the distressor set to 1:1 with the Dist 3 (tape distortion) engaged and make it compress about 2dB on peaks. Then I feed this into my delay. If the delay is set for something like 400ms and I want repeats, I use a send on my board to make the delay feed back into itself instead of the Eventide's on board feedback control. I use the equalizer on the board to roll off some of the high end. By using the aux send on the board, on the channel that the delay is coming in on, it makes the delay repeats go through the eq and the line input of the console each time it comes around making each repeat darker and grainier than the last which makes it sound more like a tape echo.

The feedback control in the eventide does not have an eq and analog opamp circuitry and Neve transformer distortion, Distressor Tube distortion color and compression in the feedback path to darken and distort the repeats progresively. You can try this same idea putting any chain of stuff you have that will degrade the delay's quality progressively in your feedback path using an aux send. You'll need a real mixer though.

This won't sound like a PCM 42 but it sounds very cool and more original. It works not having a certain peice of gear which forces creativity with what you do have to achieve certain kinds of tones.

The Eventide Eclipse is a currently made cost effective high quality versatile effects processor that is supported and will continue to be supported for at least 10 years. I think that is just as important as sounding good.
Old 23rd July 2006 | Show parent
  #9
Registered User
 
Yukon's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Originally Posted by u b i k


Actually a lot of the grain comes from the built in overload compressor in the PCM42.

The harder you drive it the more it bites down.

That's one way to get those biting AW electric guitar sounds.

If you put in on insert on one side of an electric guitar pair with almost no delay and you turn up the input but turn down the output you get this ridiculous big in your face guitar sound.

Same goes on a lead vocal.




The PCM42 trick is cool I guess, BUT how do you turn down the output on the PCM42 when there is no output control?
Old 23rd July 2006 | Show parent
  #10
Registered User
 
doug_hti's Avatar
 
🎧 20 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon
Originally Posted by u b i k
[I]



The PCM42 trick is cool I guess, BUT how do you turn down the output on the PCM42 when there is no output control?


output control is on the back....
Old 29th September 2006 | Show parent
  #11
Registered User
 
Harley-OIART's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Major Bump :

Do any other Lexicon Units, or Other Brands all together for that matter, do this effect as well as a Legit PCM 42?

Warmest Regards,
Scott Harloff
Old 29th September 2006 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley-OIART ➑️
Major Bump :

Do any other Lexicon Units, or Other Brands all together for that matter, do this effect as well as a Legit PCM 42?

Warmest Regards,
Scott Harloff
PCM 41 does the same thing but doesn't have the LED
Old 29th September 2006 | Show parent
  #13
Registered User
 
Harley-OIART's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimini ➑️
PCM 41 does the same thing but doesn't have the LED
Many Thanks!

Any others??? I would like to purchase a unit specifically for this trick, HOWEVER I wouldn't mind getting more than a one-trick-pony! (Meaning: it wouldn't hurt to get a decent FX unit too, not just an old unit that works great for its overload compressor).

Scotty
Old 29th September 2006 | Show parent
  #14
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 20 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimini ➑️
PCM 41 does the same thing but doesn't have the LED
The PCM 41 doesn't have the limiter so it won't work(its also why the PCM42 and PCM41 doesn't sound the same).

The Lexicon 1300S does but it doesn't have the regeneration facility of the PCM42(it does make one hell of a predelay though).
Old 29th September 2006 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Yep. the pcm41 gets pretty nasty when it's in the red. Eventide H910's have a really odd sounding limiter built in as well. Just kinda like soft distortion really. Never tried a real PCM42.
Old 29th September 2006 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
Diablo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Anyone every try the George Lynch trick using a Fostex 4 track (as detailed by our own Michael Wagener)?

Same basic purpose.

It was mentioned in a thread about one of Michael's projects.
Old 29th September 2006 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 20 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuntz ➑️
Never tried a real PCM42.

Than you've never really lived my brother...you've never really lived.
Old 29th September 2006 | Show parent
  #18
84K
Registered User
 
84K's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
I have been putting a PCM 60 in the effects loop of guitar amps for years, putting the reverb on 0 and driving the input so it lives in the red. When I add it in through the loop, I love watching guitar players jaws hit the floor over how much more balls their sound got in just 3 seconds.
Old 29th September 2006 | Show parent
  #19
Led
Registered User
 
Led's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I didn't think the 60 had the limiter - does it? I never really liked em.
Old 29th September 2006 | Show parent
  #20
84K
Registered User
 
84K's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Led ➑️
I didn't think the 60 had the limiter - does it? I never really liked em.
It distorts nicely in the effects loop on a guitar amp. I was not suggesting it as a replacement for AW's trick, just a side note.

The PCM 42 AW trick is cool.
Old 29th September 2006 | Show parent
  #21
Led
Registered User
 
Led's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hmmm interesting. I never liked them as a reverb but nice to know. Thanks for sharing.
Old 29th September 2006 | Show parent
  #22
Registered User
 
Harley-OIART's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
So, what could work to produce "a HIGHLY similar" result to the PCM42 Trick?

Other Brands? Maybe even a Digital Solution (ITB) ?
Old 29th September 2006 | Show parent
  #23
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
 
🎧 20 years
I patently refuse to spend the kind of money on a PCM-42 that those things seem to fetch [like close to "original price" after 20 something years of service]. So, cheap fvck that I am I run all Roland SDE delays... I have a 3000, a 2500, and two 1000's [had 3 but one fried... I lost a whole $125-USD that day... less than I have been known to spend on a good night of drinking... and I had the damn thing for like 5-6 years!!].

The front end compression on the Roland stuff is brilliant. The way I run the things is when they're in use the 'meter bar' is fully lit... I've noticed compression but not distortion. Works like a small angel on a lot of sounds!! I also have an Eventide Clock Works 1in x 4 output delay for setting speaker delays in reinforcement applications [JJ-193]... if you want some shit to ping-pong back and forth [L-->R-->L-->R] some what close to being in time then this thing is also a little slice of heaven... if you want some "regeneration" take the last tap and run it up on a send back into the unit... if you get the timing close it can kinda work like an auto-panner that pans a delay of the original event... and yeah, the input limiter helps change the envelop so you get a quite interesting overall effect.

Sorry to kinda hijack the thread... I have a little less of a clue of what Andy Wallace does than what I'm going to eat for dinner next Monday... just thought I'd share some shit I've found to be cool.

Best of luck with whatever you're trying to accomplish.

Peace.
Old 29th September 2006 | Show parent
  #24
actually I did the Andy Wallace trick without noticing it:D

https://gearspace.com/board/showpost...3&postcount=15

I dont know if it works the same as with the PCM42 device.. but it works:D

cheers
Old 1st October 2006 | Show parent
  #25
Registered User
 
Harley-OIART's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Flecther, George, theThrillfactor, 84K, and others who contributed to this thread, Thank you!


I am going to borrow a Lexicon 1300S from work and see if that can get me close, not to mention I will probably buy the PSP PCM42 Plugin and have some adventures with fat Delay.

Much Repsect to G.S. Community,
-Scott
Old 2nd October 2006 | Show parent
  #26
Lives for gear
 
Bob Ross's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher ➑️
I patently refuse to spend the kind of money on a PCM-42 that those things seem to fetch [like close to "original price" after 20 something years of service].

If I could find a PCM-42 for anything close to the "original price" I'd buy it in a heartbeat. It's been at least 10 years since I've seen one selling for less than $1500; when they were new you could pick up the non-MEO versions for $800.
Old 2nd October 2006 | Show parent
  #27
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 20 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley-OIART ➑️
Flecther, George, theThrillfactor, 84K, and others who contributed to this thread, Thank you!


I am going to borrow a Lexicon 1300S from work and see if that can get me close, not to mention I will probably buy the PSP PCM42 Plugin and have some adventures with fat Delay.

Much Repsect to G.S. Community,
-Scott
Remember the 1300S has no regenaration facilities so that means no feedback is possible.

I have 2 of them and use them mostly as outboard predelays or when i need the quick pseudo stereo thing on acoustics.
Old 30th October 2006
  #28
Registered User
 
Harley-OIART's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Well fellow slutz...

I feel it is only honourable and morally correct of me, that due to my current financial restraints, I forward this sale of a PCM42 to you all. Its as cheap as I have ever seen...

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=92005

Old 31st October 2006 | Show parent
  #29
Lives for gear
 
🎧 20 years
Not that anyone gives a flying f$ck:

But, I'm kind of in line with Fletcher on this one. Why not just experiment with a limiter in front of ANY delay. Go nuts! Stick a crappy filter in the feedback loop... whatever! It's the technique that's important here, not the piece of gear. This is "engineering" folks - let's try to retain our sense of ingenuity here (it's what separates us from the wannabe's!). $1000 for a delay!? Nonsence. What would Bill Putnam do?!

-rant over













PCM42 IS pretty cool though
Old 31st October 2006 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
Rogervandeberg's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The question now is if the software version of the pcm42 (it's called the psp 42) does the same or near same trick. That would save some $$$....

http://www.pspaudioware.com/plugins/psp42.html
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 402 views: 129444
Avatar for hostnik
hostnik 9th February 2021
replies: 74 views: 48555
Avatar for RE201
RE201 1st August 2018
replies: 3 views: 2356
Avatar for rack gear
rack gear 16th October 2009
replies: 7 views: 825
Avatar for thethrillfactor
thethrillfactor 11th April 2020
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump