Could somebody describe the 'tremelo' symptom a bit better?

I can't tell if my 42 needs an IC upgrade or not.
My unit has a slow attack on the overdrive itself that I consider annoying, doesn't sound faulty though.

Hello
I was reading this old thread. I have a pcm 42 that I use on vocals usually.
Yesterday I tried it to get the famous wallace trick on a pair of rhythm guitars (in insert on one of them) with all delay controls to 0 and with the mix control totally on input (left). Then of course input cranked on yellow sometimes on red and low output.
The effect was really nice but what can I try to improve it?

This particular "trick" is not specific to the PCM42. The input limiters on most rack digital delays functioned similarly to make sure there's no digital clipping in the delay line. To achieve this there is some kind of limiter on the front end that will usually distort/overdrive in a musical sorta way.

This is why the Korg SDD3000 that The Edge and Daniel Lanois use is so sought after because of the same kind of "magic" that happens on the front end of the box. There's even a guitar pedal clone of the SDD3000 preamp.

SDD-3000 Preamp Clone | Trabantland



I'm a vintage digital delay junkie with about two racks of these boxes from this era and I own both a PCM42 and an SDD3000. There's more grit on the PCM42, but the SDD3000 has a nicer modulation.

Also don't forget that if you go back a littler farther to say the PrimeTime 93 it get's even grittier and there's bit rate reduction to increase delay time - as there is on the PCM42 as well.

Hello,

Thanx for the tip. The korg is on my wish list and the clone seems really interesting!
Going back to the pcm 42, is the wallace trick just the saturation or some delay setting too? How should be the mix control set to have a wider sound?

Thanx

Any advice?

Thanx

I posted a song in this thread that has the Andy Wallace Trick on the Lead Gtr, check out the outro and listen to the Gtr starting @ the 3:14 mark. When we A/B'ed it with and without the Lexicon, the Lexicon brought out just a little more "texture" in a good way to the guitar tone.

API 2500, Drawmer 1968, Neve 5043, SSL G384 -- 2 Bus Listening Comparison

Hope this helps.

Slam it into red. Yellow isn't enough.

What other poster said is true too. Most dig boxes have a limiter in front (especially the lexicon boxes). Even my mx300 (new cheap lexicon) which I typically use only on snare sounds great when overloaded. Gives it a nice bite.

Try slamming the input and pull down the return. Use your ears. Have fun.

could anyone with a 42 post the effect before and after processing the signal.. it would be really interesting to HEAR it instead of just talking about it.. and with before and after everyone who doesnt have a 42 could try to imitate it.. which also would be pretty interesting

Will continuously clipping with the input hurt the unit over time? I recently got one in an acquisition. I was actually contemplating selling it. But I'm game to try this out.

I've been slamming mine into the red for years and no probs so far. The most common problem is when the CLM 50 chips die. This causes a modulating sound and one of the two (I think it's usually the output) CLM 50s will need to be repalced. They are very rare though. The PCM 42 'trick'!!!??? works great on distorted electric guitars and vocals and it loves to be slammed hard.
There are some pics of mine here. I had three but I started printing to the session a couple of years back so I sold two of them.

Mix Engineer | Keith More

could you post a clip of what you do with it?

But to have the famous trick the mix knob has to be on dry (input), delay or 50/50?
From your photo it seems on delay, with all the other controls off...

Anybody know if MX200 has a built in limiter or compressor on front end?

I've thought about selling mine as they fetch a good price these days. But then I know there'll come a project where that's just sound I'm looking for...

But if I had to have only one from that era, I'd still go with the SDD3000.

Lexicon 1300s

The only units with the limiter would be
PCM 41,42 1300s as far as I've seen. More contol on the 1300 as the output input knobs are on the front. Not to mention the 1300 is stereo.
The 1300s in front of an echo boy ect will give you the desired results I never really could start that first long delay in the Lex units either!
More control via a plugin....

Add the PrimeTime II & SPT and the M200, 1200, All have the same PCM/42/1300 Limiter. 1300 w/ moogfooger......for regen is lovely!

Unfortunately the unlike the PCM-42 the 1300/S has No Opto Isolator or CLM-50 Clarix Opto Chip! Still great units

Here is the direct link to the song with the PCM42 and an API 2500 on the mix bus. Click on the link below:

I don't know if this was already covered, but do any of the plugins in the Lexicon PCM effects plugin bundle mimic the digital input limiter drive like in the hardware? Or any other plugin modeling the 42 like the PSP 42?


Edit: Appears not.

When I realized what exactly this trick was I remembered I used to do the same thing on an old digitech guitar processor. Adding a stereo delay or a stereo chorus with a 0ms delay or a 0 chorus rate. It made the stereo guitar sound really big and 3D. Shitty big and 3D because its digital guitar tone. That was the effect, minus the limiter drive.

it's kind of interesting that after all this time, no one has come forward with a clear explanation of how it actually works. is it just a matter of running through it and slamming the limiter with 0ms delay and no modulation, and going through the main output but with the mix set to wet? dry? after so many years and so many pages (other threads also) no one really seems to know how it works.

The PCM41 and PCM 42 both have an output control on the back of the unit.

Hi everyone! Who has the 1300s?
I have the 1300s, but it does not do the trick AW. As I understand it, should be replaced by CLM-50. But this is not in the scheme in my 1300s. Maybe they were replaced by analogs chips. Tell me where in the scheme must be CLM50? (U25 U27?)

This is an old Gearslutz myth.
The 1300s has a completely different architecture than the PCM42.

It features what was back then a state of the art 16 bit signal path with
an integrated 16bit Sony AD (actually the same as used in the PPG Waveterm B)
and a high quality DA with a discrete analog antialiasing Filter.
It was build for broadcast use and can be externally clocked.

As far as I know it does not feature a limiter function whatsoever.

The 1300 is truly a beautiful sounding delay in its own right but it won't do the trick you are looking for.

Whoever said that the 1300 is a low cost shortcut to the PCM42 sound is wrong.

thanks

if you had written this before .......

now I have a 1300 and a pair of СLM-50, which I do not need. Someone wants to buy them?)))

Total myth. We actually asked Andy at Mixing with the Masters about it and he didn't know what we were talking about.

At first we started to make jokes about the PCM every time there was a chance or mention of the unit but later on we had to explain to Andy what we where talking about.

myth about limiter in 42? or myth about Andy using it?

Myth about Andy using it. Best regards.

The PCM42 audio path has two CLM-50 based limiter stages.
The 1300s does not.

well if he never heard about it why did he mention it in a previous video?

look at 2:45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=578iblW3SMI