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Lexicon PCM ## Andy Wallace Trick
Old 28th November 2011
  #91
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Could somebody describe the 'tremelo' symptom a bit better?

I can't tell if my 42 needs an IC upgrade or not.
My unit has a slow attack on the overdrive itself that I consider annoying, doesn't sound faulty though.
Old 30th June 2013 | Show parent
  #92
Hal
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Hello
I was reading this old thread. I have a pcm 42 that I use on vocals usually.
Yesterday I tried it to get the famous wallace trick on a pair of rhythm guitars (in insert on one of them) with all delay controls to 0 and with the mix control totally on input (left). Then of course input cranked on yellow sometimes on red and low output.
The effect was really nice but what can I try to improve it?
Old 30th June 2013
  #93
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
This particular "trick" is not specific to the PCM42. The input limiters on most rack digital delays functioned similarly to make sure there's no digital clipping in the delay line. To achieve this there is some kind of limiter on the front end that will usually distort/overdrive in a musical sorta way.

This is why the Korg SDD3000 that The Edge and Daniel Lanois use is so sought after because of the same kind of "magic" that happens on the front end of the box. There's even a guitar pedal clone of the SDD3000 preamp.

SDD-3000 Preamp Clone | Trabantland



I'm a vintage digital delay junkie with about two racks of these boxes from this era and I own both a PCM42 and an SDD3000. There's more grit on the PCM42, but the SDD3000 has a nicer modulation.

Also don't forget that if you go back a littler farther to say the PrimeTime 93 it get's even grittier and there's bit rate reduction to increase delay time - as there is on the PCM42 as well.
Old 1st July 2013 | Show parent
  #94
Hal
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Hello,

Thanx for the tip. The korg is on my wish list and the clone seems really interesting!
Going back to the pcm 42, is the wallace trick just the saturation or some delay setting too? How should be the mix control set to have a wider sound?

Thanx
Old 2nd July 2013 | Show parent
  #95
Hal
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Any advice?

Thanx
Old 3rd July 2013 | Show parent
  #96
Lives for gear
 
Deuce 225's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal ➑️
Any advice?

Thanx

I posted a song in this thread that has the Andy Wallace Trick on the Lead Gtr, check out the outro and listen to the Gtr starting @ the 3:14 mark. When we A/B'ed it with and without the Lexicon, the Lexicon brought out just a little more "texture" in a good way to the guitar tone.

API 2500, Drawmer 1968, Neve 5043, SSL G384 -- 2 Bus Listening Comparison

Hope this helps.
Old 3rd July 2013
  #97
Lives for gear
 
shortstory's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal ➑️
Hello
I was reading this old thread. I have a pcm 42 that I use on vocals usually.
Yesterday I tried it to get the famous wallace trick on a pair of rhythm guitars (in insert on one of them) with all delay controls to 0 and with the mix control totally on input (left). Then of course input cranked on yellow sometimes on red and low output.
The effect was really nice but what can I try to improve it?
Slam it into red. Yellow isn't enough.

What other poster said is true too. Most dig boxes have a limiter in front (especially the lexicon boxes). Even my mx300 (new cheap lexicon) which I typically use only on snare sounds great when overloaded. Gives it a nice bite.

Try slamming the input and pull down the return. Use your ears. Have fun.
Old 3rd July 2013 | Show parent
  #98
Lives for gear
 
pete's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
could anyone with a 42 post the effect before and after processing the signal.. it would be really interesting to HEAR it instead of just talking about it.. and with before and after everyone who doesnt have a 42 could try to imitate it.. which also would be pretty interesting
Old 3rd July 2013 | Show parent
  #99
Lives for gear
 
herecomesyourman's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortstory ➑️
Slam it into red. Yellow isn't enough.

What other poster said is true too. Most dig boxes have a limiter in front (especially the lexicon boxes). Even my mx300 (new cheap lexicon) which I typically use only on snare sounds great when overloaded. Gives it a nice bite.

Try slamming the input and pull down the return. Use your ears. Have fun.
Will continuously clipping with the input hurt the unit over time? I recently got one in an acquisition. I was actually contemplating selling it. But I'm game to try this out.
Old 3rd July 2013 | Show parent
  #100
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
PCM 42

Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman ➑️
Will continuously clipping with the input hurt the unit over time? I recently got one in an acquisition. I was actually contemplating selling it. But I'm game to try this out.
I've been slamming mine into the red for years and no probs so far. The most common problem is when the CLM 50 chips die. This causes a modulating sound and one of the two (I think it's usually the output) CLM 50s will need to be repalced. They are very rare though. The PCM 42 'trick'!!!??? works great on distorted electric guitars and vocals and it loves to be slammed hard.
There are some pics of mine here. I had three but I started printing to the session a couple of years back so I sold two of them.

Mix Engineer | Keith More
Old 3rd July 2013 | Show parent
  #101
Lives for gear
 
pete's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by one more slut ➑️
I've been slamming mine into the red for years and no probs so far. The most common problem is when the CLM 50 chips die. This causes a modulating sound and one of the two (I think it's usually the output) CLM 50s will need to be repalced. They are very rare though. The PCM 42 'trick'!!!??? works great on distorted electric guitars and vocals and it loves to be slammed hard.
There are some pics of mine here. I had three but I started printing to the session a couple of years back so I sold two of them.

Mix Engineer | Keith More
could you post a clip of what you do with it?
Old 3rd July 2013 | Show parent
  #102
Hal
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by one more slut ➑️
I've been slamming mine into the red for years and no probs so far. The most common problem is when the CLM 50 chips die. This causes a modulating sound and one of the two (I think it's usually the output) CLM 50s will need to be repalced. They are very rare though. The PCM 42 'trick'!!!??? works great on distorted electric guitars and vocals and it loves to be slammed hard.
There are some pics of mine here. I had three but I started printing to the session a couple of years back so I sold two of them.

Mix Engineer | Keith More
But to have the famous trick the mix knob has to be on dry (input), delay or 50/50?
From your photo it seems on delay, with all the other controls off...
Old 3rd July 2013 | Show parent
  #103
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Anybody know if MX200 has a built in limiter or compressor on front end?
Old 3rd July 2013 | Show parent
  #104
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by one more slut ➑️
I've been slamming mine into the red for years and no probs so far. The most common problem is when the CLM 50 chips die. This causes a modulating sound and one of the two (I think it's usually the output) CLM 50s will need to be repalced. They are very rare though. The PCM 42 'trick'!!!??? works great on distorted electric guitars and vocals and it loves to be slammed hard.
There are some pics of mine here. I had three but I started printing to the session a couple of years back so I sold two of them.

Mix Engineer | Keith More
I've thought about selling mine as they fetch a good price these days. But then I know there'll come a project where that's just sound I'm looking for...

But if I had to have only one from that era, I'd still go with the SDD3000.
Old 11th April 2014
  #105
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Lexicon 1300s
Old 11th April 2014 | Show parent
  #106
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
The only units with the limiter would be
PCM 41,42 1300s as far as I've seen. More contol on the 1300 as the output input knobs are on the front. Not to mention the 1300 is stereo.
The 1300s in front of an echo boy ect will give you the desired results I never really could start that first long delay in the Lex units either!
More control via a plugin....
Old 11th April 2014 | Show parent
  #107
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonslave ➑️
The only units with the limiter would be
PCM 41,42 1300s as far as I've seen. More contol on the 1300 as the output input knobs are on the front. Not to mention the 1300 is stereo.
The 1300s in front of an echo boy ect will give you the desired results I never really could start that first long delay in the Lex units either!
More control via a plugin....
Add the PrimeTime II & SPT and the M200, 1200, All have the same PCM/42/1300 Limiter. 1300 w/ moogfooger......for regen is lovely!
Old 9th May 2015 | Show parent
  #108
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonslave ➑️
The only units with the limiter would be
PCM 41,42 1300s as far as I've seen. More contol on the 1300 as the output input knobs are on the front. Not to mention the 1300 is stereo.
The 1300s in front of an echo boy ect will give you the desired results I never really could start that first long delay in the Lex units either!
More control via a plugin....
Unfortunately the unlike the PCM-42 the 1300/S has No Opto Isolator or CLM-50 Clarix Opto Chip! Still great units
Old 10th May 2015 | Show parent
  #109
Lives for gear
 
Deuce 225's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Song with PCM42....Andy Wallace Trick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce 225 ➑️
I posted a song in this thread that has the Andy Wallace Trick on the Lead Gtr, check out the outro and listen to the Gtr starting @ the 3:14 mark. When we A/B'ed it with and without the Lexicon, the Lexicon brought out just a little more "texture" in a good way to the guitar tone.

API 2500, Drawmer 1968, Neve 5043, SSL G384 -- 2 Bus Listening Comparison

Hope this helps.
Here is the direct link to the song with the PCM42 and an API 2500 on the mix bus. Click on the link below:

Old 10th May 2015
  #110
Deleted 7f9cade
Guest
I don't know if this was already covered, but do any of the plugins in the Lexicon PCM effects plugin bundle mimic the digital input limiter drive like in the hardware? Or any other plugin modeling the 42 like the PSP 42?


Edit: Appears not.

When I realized what exactly this trick was I remembered I used to do the same thing on an old digitech guitar processor. Adding a stereo delay or a stereo chorus with a 0ms delay or a 0 chorus rate. It made the stereo guitar sound really big and 3D. Shitty big and 3D because its digital guitar tone. That was the effect, minus the limiter drive.

Last edited by Deleted 7f9cade; 10th May 2015 at 06:21 AM..
Old 10th May 2015
  #111
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
it's kind of interesting that after all this time, no one has come forward with a clear explanation of how it actually works. is it just a matter of running through it and slamming the limiter with 0ms delay and no modulation, and going through the main output but with the mix set to wet? dry? after so many years and so many pages (other threads also) no one really seems to know how it works.
Old 10th May 2015 | Show parent
  #112
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon ➑️
Originally Posted by u b i k


Actually a lot of the grain comes from the built in overload compressor in the PCM42.

The harder you drive it the more it bites down.

That's one way to get those biting AW electric guitar sounds.

If you put in on insert on one side of an electric guitar pair with almost no delay and you turn up the input but turn down the output you get this ridiculous big in your face guitar sound.

Same goes on a lead vocal.




The PCM42 trick is cool I guess, BUT how do you turn down the output on the PCM42 when there is no output control?
The PCM41 and PCM 42 both have an output control on the back of the unit.
Old 10th May 2015
  #113
Registered User
 
🎧 5 years
Hi everyone! Who has the 1300s?
I have the 1300s, but it does not do the trick AW. As I understand it, should be replaced by CLM-50. But this is not in the scheme in my 1300s. Maybe they were replaced by analogs chips. Tell me where in the scheme must be CLM50? (U25 U27?)
Old 10th May 2015 | Show parent
  #114
Lives for gear
 
nednerd's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRYGVA ➑️
Hi everyone! Who has the 1300s?
I have the 1300s, but it does not do the trick AW. As I understand it, should be replaced by CLM-50. But this is not in the scheme in my 1300s. Maybe they were replaced by analogs chips. Tell me where in the scheme must be CLM50? (U25 U27?)
This is an old Gearslutz myth.
The 1300s has a completely different architecture than the PCM42.

It features what was back then a state of the art 16 bit signal path with
an integrated 16bit Sony AD (actually the same as used in the PPG Waveterm B)
and a high quality DA with a discrete analog antialiasing Filter.
It was build for broadcast use and can be externally clocked.

As far as I know it does not feature a limiter function whatsoever.

The 1300 is truly a beautiful sounding delay in its own right but it won't do the trick you are looking for.

Whoever said that the 1300 is a low cost shortcut to the PCM42 sound is wrong.
Old 10th May 2015 | Show parent
  #115
Registered User
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nednerd ➑️
This is an old Gearslutz myth.
The 1300s has a completely different architecture than the .

It features what was back then a state of the art 16 bit signal path with
an integrated 16bit Sony AD (actually the same as used in the PPG Waveterm B)
and a high quality DA with a discrete analog antialiasing Filter.
It was build for broadcast use and can be externally clocked.

As far as I know it does not feature a limiter function whatsoever.

The 1300 is truly a beautiful sounding delay in its own right but it won't do the trick you are looking for.

Whoever said that the 1300 is a low cost shortcut to the PCM42 sound is wrong.
thanks

if you had written this before .......

now I have a 1300 and a pair of Π‘LM-50, which I do not need. Someone wants to buy them?)))

Last edited by DRYGVA; 10th May 2015 at 03:04 PM..
Old 11th May 2015
  #116
Moderator
 
Oroz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Total myth. We actually asked Andy at Mixing with the Masters about it and he didn't know what we were talking about.

At first we started to make jokes about the PCM every time there was a chance or mention of the unit but later on we had to explain to Andy what we where talking about.
Old 11th May 2015 | Show parent
  #117
Registered User
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oroz ➑️
Total myth. We actually asked Andy at Mixing with the Masters about it and he didn't know what we were talking about.
myth about limiter in 42? or myth about Andy using it?
Old 11th May 2015 | Show parent
  #118
Moderator
 
Oroz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRYGVA ➑️
myth about limiter in 42? or myth about Andy using it?
Myth about Andy using it. Best regards.
Old 11th May 2015 | Show parent
  #119
Lives for gear
 
nednerd's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRYGVA ➑️
myth about limiter in 42? or myth about Andy using it?
The PCM42 audio path has two CLM-50 based limiter stages.
The 1300s does not.
Old 12th May 2015 | Show parent
  #120
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oroz ➑️
Total myth. We actually asked Andy at Mixing with the Masters about it and he didn't know what we were talking about.

At first we started to make jokes about the PCM every time there was a chance or mention of the unit but later on we had to explain to Andy what we where talking about.
well if he never heard about it why did he mention it in a previous video?

look at 2:45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=578iblW3SMI
πŸ“ Reply

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