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Lexicon PCM ## Andy Wallace Trick
Old 31st December 2007 | Show parent
  #61
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by outofphase ➡️
Twhat if there is already a "double tracked" guitar, maybe in that case the "PCM42 trick" works in order to make each track bigger...

I'm sure that Nirvana Smells Like Teen Spirit have doubled guitars, panned hard left and right, Did AW used his PCM42 trick there?


OOP
I don't know, others may know more about that then me what AW did to mix that record.

And I may be wrong but I believe that butch vig tracked many many many tracks of guitars for nevermind, and apparently Kurt was very good at playing them so precisely that it sounded very consistent - not muddy or sloppy - but just bigger. This is only from what I have read in interviews with Vig or Wallace, can't remember where. Maybe it was from that documentary with Vig on the making of Nevermind.

I am more familiar with using it on only one guitar track and using this trick to double it but without making it sound too chorus or flanged.

According to one post above...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon ➡️
Originally Posted by u b i k
If you put in on insert on one side of an electric guitar pair with almost no delay and you turn up the input but turn down the output you get this ridiculous big in your face guitar sound.

Same goes on a lead vocal.
...it sounds like they may be talking about using it on a pair of guitar tracks. But it is unclear from the post. I am not sure what they mean by "pair".

Maybe someone else who posted above can chime in and clarify. If we are really lucky maybe Andy will show up and set the record straight! heh

Either way, I would not be afraid to try it though. Experiment... Good luck.
Old 31st December 2007 | Show parent
  #62
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🎧 20 years
Much as I liked the sound of my PCM42 (and yes the limiter did do something interesting) I sold it as I enjoy my Prime Time II more which also has the limiter IIRC. I still don't get why they can be had for maybe 1/3rd of what a 42 costs.
Old 31st December 2007 | Show parent
  #63
outofphase
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by embrionic ➡️
I don't know, others may know more about that then me what AW did to mix that record.

And I may be wrong but I believe that butch vig tracked many many many tracks of guitars for nevermind, and apparently Kurt was very good at playing them so precisely that it sounded very consistent - not muddy or sloppy - but just bigger. This is only from what I have read in interviews with Vig or Wallace, can't remember where. Maybe it was from that documentary with Vig on the making of Nevermind.

I am more familiar with using it on only one guitar track and using this trick to double it but without making it sound too chorus or flanged.

According to one post above...



...it sounds like they may be talking about using it on a pair of guitar tracks. But it is unclear from the post. I am not sure what they mean by "pair".

Maybe someone else who posted above can chime in and clarify. If we are really lucky maybe Andy will show up and set the record straight! heh

Either way, I would not be afraid to try it though. Experiment... Good luck.
Anyone?
Old 1st January 2008 | Show parent
  #64
Pastor Obviedo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbubba ➡️
Did you really think that the plug-in would do the same thing?
Absolutely, I use the Psp plug in everyday and it souds just like the original.
Let's not forget that even the hardware PCM42 is a digital delay produced by an algorithm, they just re-writed that with help and license of Lexicon.

Don't spend absourd amount of money on a old hardware unit when you can get the same thing plus more instances, total recall and stability from the PSP plug in.

Pastor.
Old 1st January 2008 | Show parent
  #65
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Obviedo ➡️
Let's not forget that even the hardware PCM42 is a digital delay produced by an algorithm, they just re-writed that with help and license of Lexicon.
The limiter portion of the PCM42 isn't an 'algorithm', actually - it's done in the analogue part of the circuitry. Also, the 'sound' of some of the older effects boxes include the analogue to digital conversion. Not to say that you can't emulate it, or even make one of those fancy plug-ins sound the same as the original, but in this case there's more going on in there than you'd expect.
Old 1st January 2008 | Show parent
  #66
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🎧 20 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlmorley ➡️
Much as I liked the sound of my PCM42 (and yes the limiter did do something interesting) I sold it as I enjoy my Prime Time II more which also has the limiter IIRC. I still don't get why they can be had for maybe 1/3rd of what a 42 costs.
Hey I've got a 95.. would it really work for this trick (same limiter)?
Old 1st January 2008 | Show parent
  #67
Pastor Obviedo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dale116dot7 ➡️
The limiter portion of the PCM42 isn't an 'algorithm', actually - it's done in the analogue part of the circuitry.
...guess what... the analogue part of the circuitry can be modeled too, if they already modeled an LA2A, LA3A, Fairchild, 1176, sslG384, etc, etc, why they can't model a sh#$ty limiter on a archaic delay box?

People like to think of those old and unprcatical boxes as if they were Holly Grails , the PSP42 sounds exactly like the Lexicon and the PCM84 have even more features.tutt

Original lexicons take more bother than it's worth



Old 1st January 2008 | Show parent
  #68
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Obviedo ➡️
the PSP42 sounds exactly like the Lexicon and the PCM84 have even more features.tutt

Original lexicons take more bother than it's worth



Please stop before you hurt yourself. Seriously!
Old 1st January 2008 | Show parent
  #69
Pastor Obviedo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire Prod ➡️
Please stop before you hurt yourself. Seriously!


It's just my opinion, why I'm gonna hurt myself?
Old 1st January 2008 | Show parent
  #70
High Fidelity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dale116dot7 ➡️
PCM42 limiter is optical. U15 + U14 make up the dry signal limiter. Note that U14 is a CdS photocell + LED. U9 + U16 make up the A-D converter (dry + feedback) limiter. Bargraph drive voltage is used to run this limiter. U16 is another CdS + LED cell. It's listed as a CLM50 on the schematic.

I do not see a limiter on any of the PCM60/70/80/90 series.

I do not have a schematic of a PCM41.

-Dale
PCM70 featured dbx 2150A VCA ...
Old 2nd January 2008 | Show parent
  #71
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Obviedo ➡️
...guess what...the analogue part of the circuitry can be modeled too
Original lexicons take more bother than it's worth
Obviously, yes it can. Strictly speaking, though, that is not an 'algorithm' found in the PCM42. It is a piece of analogue hardware that can be modelled. Plus, models don't help people with studios where the only plug-ins go into the wall.

From what I recall, the PCM70 VCA's only do the dry-wet mix control and output gating but I'd have to double check. I did not recall them being configured as a limiter or controlling anything before the A-D converter, though.
Old 2nd January 2008 | Show parent
  #72
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🎧 15 years
Great post!

So when you say "100% wet" I assume you mean that the "output mix" knob must be turned fully clockwise to the "delay" position ?

I hope you can clarify this, because someone else told me it should be the opposite and set to "input".

I am using a console, and right now I have the pcm42 set to input and I am running a mono guitar thru it and returning the PCM42's output to another channel. The delay is set to near zero, the output knob on the rear is cranked all the way up, and the "level" knob is high enough to get the signal to start clipping in the red.

Set like this the 2 channels mixed together (panned dead center) sound really BIG. The 42 adds such in-your-face- bigness to the sound that when you mute the return channel the guitar goes all lifeless and limp and can hardly compete in the mix with the drums and everything else.

Are you saying that if I had the "output mix" knob set to "delay" (100% wet) that it would even sound bigger ?

I am not at the studio right now, so I can't try it just yet.

Happy new year to all at GS !!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by embrionic ➡️


I have some opinions and theories on this "trick" having used it over the years on both a 41 and a 42. They are herewith served with the requisite grain of salt...

I believe this was maybe discovered when someone (as noted above) had a mix going, took a break, powered down, and came in the next day and went "Wow" - those guitars sound awesome!" only to discover that the delay which was being being used for stereo chorus effect was now set to 00 ms. Despite some opinions that it can not be done on a 41, I believe that it may have actually been discovered on a PCM 41, because the 41 came first and it does not remember the delay setting when powered down. As noted by others here, if it was just the limiter on the 42, then you could achieve this effect by just slamming any limiter and blending it.

And besides, it was taught to me years ago by another engineer, on a 41, (pre Nirvana even!)

Here is what I was taught:

If you set the PCM 41 delay time to 00 ms and 100% wet and pan opposite the mono source track and balance the two, you can create a very lush/thick stereo guitar sound that also also holds up rather well in mono and is not too 80's chorusy. Apparently, if you have a 42, you can also crank the input to get the increased limiting from that device too. But what seems to be left out above is that the delay mix control must be set to 100% delay.

In my experience, you can even blend the dry/effect channels into mono (or in-between instead of hard panned) for spatial effects and to "widen" the guitar footprint but still place it somewhere other than total pseudo-stereo. Bringing up the delay time ever so slightly can vary the effect but too much and you are just heading into flange/chorus territory.

In the interest of full disclosure, I have done the above effect on PCM 41's and 42's over the years without the limiting since I only just learned about that here on gearslutz. And I don't have access to a 42 anymore and I don't recall intentionally slamming the 42's when I did this in the past.

So why might this effect work on these delays and not others?

I may be wrong but it's my theory that it is not just the limiter on the 42 that adds to the guitar sound, but the fact that you are setting the delay to near 00 ms and running a signal through the less than perfect sample/delay circuit of a 42 (or a 41) which alters the wave form (re-sampling) even when set to 00 ms. This thickens the original sound in a way that simply eq or compression alone cannot achieve. It is kind of grungy on its own, and kind of cool when mixed with the source track. ITB effects like echo farm or the PSP emulations can not do this in the same way. Other delays that I have tried it on, like the effectrons and SDE's don't seem to do it either. Something happens to a PCM 41/42 when set to 00 ms and then using a bit of the delay factor knob.

While the 41 is different than the 42 effect (no limiter) it is to me equally valuable, if it's a sound you're after. If you have a 41 lying around, try it, and you may want to keep your 41 (too)!

All this being said, it is just a trick, it can get old fast, and I don't do it much anymore since I mix primarily ITB, but I do occasionally miss it on a track that really needs some help.
Old 7th January 2008 | Show parent
  #73
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embrionic's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
As far as I was taught it is 100% wet, otherwise, theoretically, it would not matter what the delay times is set to right?

At 100% on the 42 the limiter would still be in effect if you had 100% wet because the signal is passing through the device. I don't have a block diagram for either at hand so I can't verify exactly what happens to the signal at 100% dry, but I would guess it is limiter only, no a/d/a. Hope that helps.
Old 7th January 2008 | Show parent
  #74
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delcosmos's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by embrionic ➡️
As far as I was taught it is 100% wet, otherwise, theoretically, it would not matter what the delay times is set to right?

At 100% on the 42 the limiter would still be in effect if you had 100% wet because the signal is passing through the device. I don't have a block diagram for either at hand so I can't verify exactly what happens to the signal at 100% dry, but I would guess it is limiter only, no a/d/a. Hope that helps.
I have 2 PCM42 that I bought from Vintage King.
When I use 100% wet I get this tremolo sound that "bgrotto" have experienced, when I use 100% dry I get a great sound and yes, there's a limiter in that mode too.

On another thread I saw this from Led:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Led ➡️
Hi, wow this old thing has reared it's head again...
The 'tremelo' effect you are getting is because one or both of your limiter IC's is faulty. There are 2 stages to the limiting. If the mix is set to dry you are only hearing one chip, not both, so if your unit doesn't tremelo with the mix set to dry then it's most likely only one chip, probably U16 that's gone. You would need to check the schematic but from memory they are chips positioned at U14 and U16, I think. They are a chip model number 'CLM50' and are about $10 each nowdays but you can usually only find them at some sort of obsolete electronic components broker. I got some a few years back from a place called "Cheaper Electronics" in the US. Maybe google CLM50. There's usually a minimum order of about 10 chips so it's handy to find a few others with 42's and do a group buy. The CLM50 blowing is a pretty common problem so it's worth getting a couple of spares to keep in the cupboard as the 42's are getiing older nowdays and the chips will get harder to source. Make sure you put them in the same way as the old ones.
Good luck.
Well, if this is true, I find really weird that my 2 PCM42's are failling.
Any way's I have ordered those CLM50 in case mine's are broken.


Best regards.

delcosmos.
Old 8th January 2008 | Show parent
  #75
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mtstudios@charter's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I own the 41 and 42. They are great for many, many things. I use them all over mixes, printing back to DAW for Delays (42) Chorus's (41), vocal widening. You name it, they are priceless. Running guitars via insert on Neve MIC inputs can also give you that crunch over the top effect. Blending it with original signal.


Blue Thumb Productions-Audio Production Facilities
Old 10th January 2008 | Show parent
  #76
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by embrionic ➡️
As far as I was taught it is 100% wet, otherwise, theoretically, it would not matter what the delay times is set to right?

At 100% on the 42 the limiter would still be in effect if you had 100% wet because the signal is passing through the device. I don't have a block diagram for either at hand so I can't verify exactly what happens to the signal at 100% dry, but I would guess it is limiter only, no a/d/a. Hope that helps.

Ok, so what makes it 100% wet ??? Having the "feedback" knob turned full clockwise ??

There are only 3 knobs on the front: Level, Feedback, and Output Mix.

Which one determines 100% wet or dry ???

Hope I don't sound stupid here, but I'm more confused than ever now!
Old 10th January 2008 | Show parent
  #77
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embrionic's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
output mix, not feedback! turning feedback all the way clockwise gives an altogether different effect!

output mix adjusts between dry (fully conter-clockwise) and wet (fully clockwise).

feedback controls how many repeats.
Old 10th January 2008 | Show parent
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by embrionic ➡️
output mix, not feedback! turning feedback all the way clockwise gives an altogether different effect!

output mix adjusts between dry (fully conter-clockwise) and wet (fully clockwise).

feedback controls how many repeats.
Ok thanks!

That's what I originally thought, but the language here on GS can confuse the *hit out of me sometimes. This is how I have my 42 set right now, output mix fully counterclockwise and the output knob on the back cranked all the way up.

It really SMOKES on this setting for making an electric guitar lead (or vocal lead) sound frickin HUGE !!! I have some ridiculously dense and loud mixes going, and with the PCM 42 return channel the guitar still cuts right thru the mix and you can hear every note clearly. And when you mute the 42 channel, it goes completely limp! I have tried using other compressor/limiters in this way and it does not sound nearly as good. The PCM 42 is truly magical for this type of effect! And no, my PCM 41 will NOT do it!!!

I LOVE the PCM 42, and would sell my left nut before getting rid of it. It's one of those "must have" items for the type of music I am producing.thumbsup
Old 20th October 2009 | Show parent
  #79
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🎧 10 years
Hi guys-

Looking for a pseudostereo technique for single-tracked guitar with good mono compatibility when I ran across this thread. Very interesting. However:

Quote:
Originally Posted by embrionic ➡️

If you set the PCM 41 delay time to 00 ms and 100% wet and pan opposite the mono source track and balance the two, you can create a very lush/thick stereo guitar sound that also also holds up rather well in mono and is not too 80's chorusy. Apparently, if you have a 42, you can also crank the input to get the increased limiting from that device too. But what seems to be left out above is that the delay mix control must be set to 100% delay.
When setting the delay time on my PCM-42 to 00 milliseconds as above, and hard-panning the dry and delay outputs, I definitely do *not* get stereo -- I get a mono image in the center of the stereo field, as you'd expect from a 0ms delay time. On the other hand, hard panning dry against 18ms or so sounds pretty wide. Again, as you'd expect from any delay unit. Am I missing something?

Just to make double (ha) sure I'm getting this right, here's my setup:

*I've got a guitar plugged into the PCM's input, gain pretty low (Les Paul with high-output pickups)

*Feedback set to 0, and output mix set to 100% delay.

*Out of the back of the unit I'm coming out of the "dry" output and the "main" output, with the output volume at 12 o'clock (unity).

*Take these into one stereo channel in Logic, so they are automatically hard-panned. This is the setup recommended in the PCM 42 user manual for "double-tracking".

Definitely no stereo image, but when I take the exact same setup and pump the delay time to 20ms or so, nice wide stereo image with the usual chorus artifacts when folded to mono. No different than any other delay I've used.

Note also that I've also tested using the "dry" and "delay" outputs, and this sounds identical to using the "dry" and the "main" outputs, provided the "main" output level is kept at unity.

Again, am I missing something?

Thanks in advance!
Old 20th October 2009 | Show parent
  #80
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🎧 10 years
Further, regarding driving the input limiter on the PCM-42: I may be misunderstanding something, but are we talking about doing this *while* using the stereo technique?

Because the "main" output is the only one with a level control. If I'm maxing the gain and taking both the "dry" and "main" outs and hard-panning them, I have wildly different levels on each side of the stereo pair. i.e. I can reduce the "main" out level but not the "dry" output level.

Again, please let me know if I'm missing something.

Thank you!
Old 20th October 2009 | Show parent
  #81
Led
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🎧 15 years
Hi, normally you have the guitar on one channel in your mix panned one way, send that to the 42 then take the mix out set to 100% delay and that goes on the opposite side to the dry guitar. I've never tried doing it by pluggin straight into the unit, it is always from a send. If you want the delay guitar to be limited then drive it into the red and turn the output knob down, because if you're doing it right it will be too hot for the converter or console input.
It's the tiny bit of delay by the effected signal going through the 42's circuit that gives you the spread. Even with a delay time of 00 there is a tiny delay. By pluggin in direct to the unit you are sending both your signals through it.
Old 20th October 2009 | Show parent
  #82
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embrionic's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by atari800 ➡️
Hi guys-

When setting the delay time on my PCM-42 to 00 milliseconds as above, and hard-panning the dry and delay outputs, I definitely do *not* get stereo -- I get a mono image in the center of the stereo field, as you'd expect from a 0ms delay time.
Hi, the PCM 41 and 42 behave differently in this regard. The effect I describe is only on the 41 and is slightly different than the effect described by others on the 42.
Old 20th October 2009 | Show parent
  #83
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🎧 10 years
Thanks for the speedy responses guys.

So basically, you're compressing one side of the stereo pair really aggressively and leaving the other side dry? Do we think the different compression levels contribute to the stereo effect? Will attempt later.

Regarding the limiter, not clear if my unit may have the defective IC. I attached a short sample of limited and dry guitar to this post here:

https://gearspace.com/board/4697960-post25.html

If you can take a quick listen and let me know if this is the intended effect, that would be great. Doesn't sound like it to me.

Thank you!
Old 21st October 2009 | Show parent
  #84
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🎧 10 years
Incidentally, for the curious, ran a few tests. Played a dual-mono test track off a laptop, to another laptop, with the PCM 42 in between. Only one of two channels went through the 42, the other leg went straight to the recording machine. Examining the resulting recorded tracks, here's what it looks like:

Set to 00ms and 100% wet, the PCM 42 introduces about a 4-sample delay. This is about a tenth of a millisecond at 44.1khz. That's pretty fast. Mac OS X itself introduced about 2ms of delay when I ran the test track from output to input on the same machine. (This actually varied somewhat take to take -- which is why I ended up running from one machine to the other, to eliminate that issue.)

Set to 9ms, it took 422 samples of delay to null the two signals -- or about 9.5ms.

Set to 19ms, it took 832 samples to null them -- about 19ms even.

As tiny as 4 samples is, it's surprisingly audible as phasing when folded to mono. However it isn't a long enough delay to introduce a stereo widening effect. It takes 3ms of delay -- the next highest increment available on the PCM 42 -- to start hearing any stereo spread.

So... if there's stereoization to be had with the 00ms technique, I can't replicate it!

Also wasn't able to replicate the limiting, just extreme choppiness -- though I may have a unit with the defective IC.
Old 21st October 2009 | Show parent
  #85
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philosi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Finally tried it...
Attached Thumbnails
Lexicon PCM ## Andy Wallace Trick-img_0236.jpg  
Old 27th January 2010 | Show parent
  #86
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🎧 10 years
Hey guys!
I hope it is allowed to revive old topics, but I just had an awesome idea on the shitter. heh

Let's say, I don't need an external Delay, but I only want to use the PCM limiter stage for grit and keep my plugins for the delay stuff.
Would it be possible to extract the limiter stage from the PCM42 schematic and put that into a Stompbox? Just simple controls (input/output gain) and 2 1/4 inch jacks and/or XLR.
What would one need to do in order to change the limiter output into a line signal?

Schematic here: http://www.lexiconpro.com/product_do...Schematics.pdf

cheers,
Mario
Old 27th January 2010 | Show parent
  #87
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by marwutz ➡️
Hey guys!
I hope it is allowed to revive old topics, but I just had an awesome idea on the shitter. heh

Let's say, I don't need an external Delay, but I only want to use the PCM limiter stage for grit and keep my plugins for the delay stuff.
Would it be possible to extract the limiter stage from the PCM42 schematic and put that into a Stompbox? Just simple controls (input/output gain) and 2 1/4 inch jacks and/or XLR.
What would one need to do in order to change the limiter output into a line signal?

Schematic here: http://www.lexiconpro.com/product_do...Schematics.pdf

cheers,
Mario
Of course it would be possible.
In fact, I bet that if you looked hard enough you would find that circuit being used as a compressor stage on another piece.
It might even be used (or something quite similar to it) in some sort of already manufactured or once manufactured stomp box.

I briefly looked at the PCM42 schematic that you posted and I see the compressor/limiter up in the upper right section of the page.
It appears to have a LED "opto" circuit.
To get the full "mojo" you would need the 5532s and everything else before the compressor stage as well as everything after it.

I don't think that the "magic" is only being created with the compressor stage.
It would take quite a bit of the entire circuit path to get the result that everyone is talking about.
In all truthfulness, you could probably achieve a very similar effect with a similar compressor.
Say a DynaMite?

BTW... the other day I was playing a recording I did back in '92 where I used a PCM42 with the delay set to 000 msec. to create a stereo GTR.
It was a heavy metal (speed metal) GTR sound (not a bad one either) and as I recall the guy didn't want to double track his parts.
I just fell into using the 000 msec. setting because I didn't like the "boxey" sound of the DDL.
I probably was not over-driving the front end though.

The sound is OK, but the un-effected GTR sound is the "winner" over all.
Maybe I should have used the overdrive effect and the limiter.

Do PCM 42s really cost over $1500 now?
I paid $795.00 for a brand new one in '89!

Of course I bought three 1176s Rev Es for $750.00 in '95..... times change.
Old 28th January 2010 | Show parent
  #88
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🎧 15 years
I got rid of my 42's thinking I could always pick some up later. Now I just can't justify the cost. It's sort of a bummer. Oh well, I guess the Rolling Stones were right.
Old 30th January 2010 | Show parent
  #89
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🎧 15 years
Let me just give an opinion and you can take it just for what it is but..(btw..I may have even posted on this thread a couple years ago)

this aint the secret to anything. I have done plenty of mixes that have the same sound and its not about this unit in any way shape or form. Its just a way to get more distortion.

If your comped tracks dont sound like an angel brought down a 2 mix from heaven already--this unit will do nothing for you that is gonna change that. We are talking like a 1% change here.

Its about choosing the right amp and mic blend.
Old 20th December 2010 | Show parent
  #90
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by atari800 ➡️
Incidentally, for the curious, ran a few tests. Played a dual-mono test track off a laptop, to another laptop, with the PCM 42 in between. Only one of two channels went through the 42, the other leg went straight to the recording machine. Examining the resulting recorded tracks, here's what it looks like:

Set to 00ms and 100% wet, the PCM 42 introduces about a 4-sample delay. This is about a tenth of a millisecond at 44.1khz. That's pretty fast. Mac OS X itself introduced about 2ms of delay when I ran the test track from output to input on the same machine. (This actually varied somewhat take to take -- which is why I ended up running from one machine to the other, to eliminate that issue.)

Set to 9ms, it took 422 samples of delay to null the two signals -- or about 9.5ms.

Set to 19ms, it took 832 samples to null them -- about 19ms even.

As tiny as 4 samples is, it's surprisingly audible as phasing when folded to mono. However it isn't a long enough delay to introduce a stereo widening effect. It takes 3ms of delay -- the next highest increment available on the PCM 42 -- to start hearing any stereo spread.

So... if there's stereoization to be had with the 00ms technique, I can't replicate it!

Also wasn't able to replicate the limiting, just extreme choppiness -- though I may have a unit with the defective IC.
Thanks for this.

So if you were to emulate this ITB I would say you could chop it down to three components: dynamics, delay and grunge (tone).

A 1ms (4 [email protected])delay surely will show signs of phasing when collapsing to mono, but it is not as evident as twice that, and not for a mid-range signal like guitar (cymbals - YES). The Voxengo sound delay plugin lets you experiment with this.

I'd say it would be fairly easy to set up a send bus in DAW that does all this. The only complaint would be getting the analog part right which some will never admit can be done. The point though is not autenticity but technique. As one poster said, it's about getting more distortion.
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